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On October 17 2012 18:03 DarthPunk wrote:
There is no way to know if game is over. So don't give up. Give me your two top scum reads.
Right now? Sloosh + X. But as I said I need to rethink this a lot atm. A lot of people might have had reasons to help me push VE. The only one who seems really really town atm is Coag because of VEs check on him. I put Iamp and ZB as town but will have to look over them again from a "what if they really are scum?" perspective. Still unsure about the rest.
And yea, if Kush was scum lynching VE wasnt as bad as it looks, then it was quite a natural reaction to..... whatever mechanic made him flip town. But yea, that assumption falls if Kush was town, which I will assume unless 2ppl die and game doesnt end.
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Im not ready to push a Sloosh case until I've reread a bunch of things though. For obvious reason Im starting to doubt my previous reads. :p
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Did Kush just retardedly confirm himself as mafia? Why would he think its justice otherwise?
Also, afk-mode until tomrrow if game is still going on. Night.
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GG.
Quite an annoying game due to how many clear lycnhes there were and how powerful the roles were. Only the Mattchew and Shady lynch seemed to be coming from discussion (although slightly fuelled by 3rd party). The rest was just 2 paramedic lynches, 1 obvious lynch on a "scum" claimed by a cop and the last on the cop who mis-claimed. All very role-focused.
I probably tunneled too much, but I dont see the VE lynch being strange. Take 100 games where a supposed cop claims hes found a scum and he hasnt. How many games out of those 100 are due to a role+alignment framer hitting the right target with like 15ppl left, and how many are due to the cop being scum and have fake-claimed? I dont know the answer to that, someone more experienced tell me, but I strongly doubt the role+alignment framer is more common (yea yea I know circumstances bla bla, but then at least admit there were other scummy parts of VEs play, just as with about anyones play, too). I regret my tunneling because it was clearly stopping me from finding other scum, but I dont regret the VE lynch. Thats what happens when theres so many powerful roles in the game. The paramedics fucking mafia, the framer fucked town. Mafia got the better of it. I'll likely push for a lynch on the same guy making the same incorrect claim VE did next game, and the game after that.
Next time I'd very much prefer less power roles and less powerful roles.
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
And really, HOW THE FUCK DID BC KNOW ABOUT MY ROLE!? I wouldve defended him to death, including revealing myself, had votes started going BCs way. And also, what was the "passive roleblocks" all about BC?
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On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum.
We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor.
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On October 18 2012 14:53 DarthPunk wrote:Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM. 
Haha, I feel the opposite. :p
Last game I told you I thought mafia deserved it because mafia was better and town wasnt getting many read right. And I told you you should feel good. This game I dont feel like it was anywhere near as clear that mafia > town. I feel 100% shafted by the framer, thats a part of the game and I dont mind it, but I dont feel mafia won due to their good play. At the end of the game I had Sloosh, you and Shiao down as the most likely team with Sloosh being very clear (risk was so bitter it would require quite a good mafia to play that bitter I-know-best town role so I pinned him down as town towards the end). Yea I know its easy to say afterwards but thats how it was. Overall Im satisfied by my play and by town play compared to last game. This was a "lucky" framing win as opposed to last game imo, where mafia was straight up better.
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On October 18 2012 17:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 16:47 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum. We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor. Why wasn't the lack of a counter claim a factor? You expected him to flip as a red rolecop, but not as a blue rolecop? This still means there's an unaccounted-for blue rolecop, right?
No, not according to the OP......right?
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On October 18 2012 17:04 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 17:02 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 17:01 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:47 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum. We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor. Why wasn't the lack of a counter claim a factor? You expected him to flip as a red rolecop, but not as a blue rolecop? This still means there's an unaccounted-for blue rolecop, right? No, not according to the OP......right? So the assumption is that VE was a mafia rolecop, and there is no town rolecop, in a game with godfather and miller? >.> Far be it from me to speculate on setup, but that sounds literally insane. Hell, given the fact that he claimed a red check on a player who was already suspicious, AND the fact that he's VE, it seems profoundly unlikely that he wasn't a town rolecop. Then again, by then I was dead and not reading very heavily, which changes your perception of things. I just don't know why the claimed cop was lynched.
Well, there was still a "Detective" in the game too. But I guess thats a fair argument. To me it looked like what you say was overshadowed by other happening. But that might have been me tunneling I guess. Point taken.
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On October 18 2012 17:18 Blazinghand wrote:
I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention to the thread after I died, so I can't say it one way or another. The fact that he had a red check on a guy and the guy flipped green, though, in general shouldn't be a sign of a fakeclaim.
I guess the right choice should have been to vote sloosh (which many seemed to agree on was scum), check him flip and if the flip in any way cleared VE (which it wouldnt have done  ) then potentially get back on VE next day if hes still alive. Had mafia kept VE alive though I see no reason why we shouldnt have voted VE the day after though.
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On October 18 2012 17:23 Blazinghand wrote:
Well, hindsight is 20/20 as they say. My only regret is letting Kush distract me from my ShiaoPi.
Who were you?
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On October 18 2012 17:25 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 16:58 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 14:53 DarthPunk wrote:Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM. Haha, I feel the opposite. :p Last game I told you I thought mafia deserved it because mafia was better and town wasnt getting many read right. And I told you you should feel good. This game I dont feel like it was anywhere near as clear that mafia > town. I feel 100% shafted by the framer, thats a part of the game and I dont mind it, but I dont feel mafia won due to their good play. At the end of the game I had Sloosh, you and Shiao down as the most likely team with Sloosh being very clear (risk was so bitter it would require quite a good mafia to play that bitter I-know-best town role so I pinned him down as town towards the end). Yea I know its easy to say afterwards but thats how it was. Overall Im satisfied by my play and by town play compared to last game. This was a "lucky" framing win as opposed to last game imo, where mafia was straight up better. I don't think That the frame was entirely 'luck'.There was ground work put into the kush frame. Several people were casting suspicion on him to the point where it was a fairly reasonable choice to check him. It is not as much as 1/15 chance to frame someone as it is creating and identifying situations in which a frame would be useful. Like we were tossing up between a Coag/Kush frame. It turns out coag was checked the night before kush. So it is was less 'luck' than you think. This set-up was heavily town favoured also. So if anyone should be complaining about set-up and roles it is scum. we had GF and Framer that messed with a singular cop and a roleblocker. Town had Watcher, Watcher, Paramedic, Paramedic, Veteran, Madhatter, Cop 5 investigative roles, 3 night kill stopping roles. and a Conditional Vig I feel very satisfied with my play this game.
Well I didnt mean you randomly hit right (hence "lucky" not lucky), if you had good reason to frame him then kudos. But I just kinda mean you hit bullseye with one move which gave you the game. Had you not done it, I think town would have won. Partially due the double paramedics of course, which definitely would have been reasonable by mafia to blame the loss on in that case.
As I said, too many too good roles means roles win games not good play. This time a mafia role got you the win imo. Less quantity of roles and less powerful roles please :<
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Oh and I agree the setup was town favored. But the reason you overcame that wasnt because of sick mafia play where you tricked us all.
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Oh well, I'll drop it :p I'll probably just come off as bitter, which I really am not. Im quite satisfied with my play and as I said dont mind losing to whats clearly a part of the game.
And someone reply how BC could know my role! :<
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On October 18 2012 17:40 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 17:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh and I agree the setup was town favored. But the reason you overcame that wasnt because of sick mafia play where you tricked us all. Nope but we put a lot off effort into achieving and then facilitating that last day when it was Kreb vs Viscera Eyes. And that was all we needed to do to fulfill our wincon. We didn't care if we were outed. It didn't matter.
This is true too.
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I think I'll enjoy mafia play much more than town play in this game :p
MODS GIVE ME MAFIA ROLES PLEASE
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On October 18 2012 17:52 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 17:49 Kreb wrote:
I think I'll enjoy mafia play much more than town play in this game :p
MODS GIVE ME MAFIA ROLES PLEASE Heh. I much prefer town although I have played mafia more than town. It is harder and tiring and often difficult to stay motivated with. There is a reason sloosh and Shiao were afk. Hehe.
I dont think I'd have much trouble with that. I find it demotivating to have to deal with all other townies. :p I'm 1-2 so far and the win I've felt I didnt contribute much to and the losses I felt I lost to stuff outside of my control although Im definitely in no way a super town player. All town games have left a somewhat bitter taste. But a satisfying town win would be me cracking some scummy player and then nailing him down and getting town to vote for him. The problem is not only the fact that Im probably often wrong but even when Im right its pretty hard to get people to listen to you.
On the other hand as mafia you are probably on average much more a part of the reason why your team wins. Plus I think people seem to consider my play townish and I wanna see if I can keep that up as scum to fool people.
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On October 18 2012 18:06 risk.nuke wrote:
Kreb Coag and iamp was all already acting like townies (This does not mean you played well).
Heh, that has been a big part of how I decided to play. I acknowledged that my scumhunting would probably be below par, at least initally. But a bad town looking like a townie I've learned is waaay "better" than a bad townie looking scummy. People seems to be all up about scumhunting but not enough people care enough to work on their own image as towny when they are town, to avoid suspicion from other town. Indeed, all the inactive townies just barely saying anything in a game are very annoying since they provide a healthy amount of cover for the mafia to play "bad".
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On October 18 2012 19:23 marvellosity wrote:
Kreb, if you'd have lynched VE all over again, then you've learnt nothing from this game. Go back and look at what you did wrong.
You realize thats not helping me, right?
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On October 18 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 20:20 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 19:23 marvellosity wrote:
Kreb, if you'd have lynched VE all over again, then you've learnt nothing from this game. Go back and look at what you did wrong.
You realize thats not helping me, right? Without meaning to be rude, your own attitude isn't helping you. You just said, basically, "I committed this horrendous, game-losing mistake, but... yay! I'd do it again!" Which is silly. VE didn't play perfectly, but you went tunnel-tastic on him, and one of the roots of it was you WIFOMing on my actions. You were told by numerous players that using anything I did/said is an exercise in futility, as skilled scum players don't leave obvious tracks, and you can see this now. Again much as VE didn't play perfectly, there were far scummier players in the thread than VE. Both slOosh and ShiaoPi literally had no town features about their play. A couple of players made strong cases on DP (I believe relating to his kush flip flops etc?) as well as his large amount of implied knowledge about KP. You're not stupid by any means, and if you'd taken a step back from your VE case (when plenty of people told you to do so), you are quite capable of seeing these other things for yourself.
Well thats more helpful at least. The only thing I have to say about that is that last game I played I was totally onto the people playing without town features with the reasoning that "If they were town they would surely not play this bad/anti-town". You might remember it if you obsed it. What happened? Both my to pscum reads for that reason were both town. So I started to see lack of any features as exactly that, lack of anything. You could say I started to value active scummyness way higher than passive scummyness. Which initially had me all null on sloosh, shiao and mattchew and I only started to suspect that trio when the field was thinning out and most other players remaining were more or less townish. I never really suspected any of them due to their actions...... because there were no actions.
The Mattchew mislynch also helped move me in that direction of reasoning. I considered both Shiao and Matt to be very much a shots in the dark, Sloosh somewhat less but still risky. And when one shot in the dark already failed (Matt) I really didnt feel like giving it a second try at mylo.
But would you suggest always lynching players lacking of town (or any) features? If so, I'll definitely take it into account.
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On October 18 2012 21:23 Mementoss wrote:
Also fuck we shoulda lynched BC like I said, that woulda confirmed me so VE didn't have to waste check and it woulda confirmed mattchew. Then we coulda went to lynching sloosh and shiapi
I wouldve revealed myself and pretty much confirmed him as Lucky Citizen in that case, so I dont think that would have happened. I was pretty close to revealing it at one point.
Which is why I really wanna know how he knew of my role....
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EPT
