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I never voted for Risen because he is bad.
The only influence his first post has on my vote for him is how it doesn't fit with what he usually does, I posted a link of his first vote in his last game and that looks nothing like this. Of course people do dumb shit to start discussion all the time which is why I didn't just jump the gun and vote for him, I asked him if he was serious and then he said "Yes, I truly believe that you are scum 3 posts into the game and for these few careful reasons that it took me suspiciously long to type out."
That's why I'm voting for him.
Since you're not getting a different "feeling" from his other game, you must be getting a similar feeling. Can you explain this to me?
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Uh, and then he back down and says that his first two posts were just to start discussion but they absolutely don't look like that to me.
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Except his play after that is to take it super serious mode YET its a play that attacks a similar thing. Its stupid.
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I didn't go through the whole game and only read Risen's post you linked and got a very random and stupid feeling out of it. I don't feel that his vote in this game was more carefully done than the other. Mind you, I don't think I have played with Risen before so if this vote is truly based on his usual playstyle I am not able to judge it that well.
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On September 06 2012 15:49 prplhz wrote:
Uh, and then he back down and says that his first two posts were just to start discussion but they absolutely don't look like that to me.
But they look like that to the others including me.
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Hi there! =) Game on!
I not really sure about Risen vs. Prphlz. Seems like they both overreacted to something the other did.
I don't like Risens green claim so early on. It serves no purpose what so ever and only gives scum a better chance to hit blue (yes he could have lied to confuse them, but then again serves no purpose for town if he is lying - just makes him a liar)
What did catch my attention that no one else seems to have noticed is this (minor thing):
On September 06 2012 06:04 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: Awww, day 1 post totally ruined my flavor :/
which indicates that Risen had prepared the post _before_ the day post. Why would anyone prepare a post before day 1 post? Town have nothing to prepare since they have nothing to hide.
These two minor things makes me believe Risen might be scum.
What I also find interesting is how both Zephirdd and V7 have already taken sides. O_o How can one takes sides when both sides really have no substantial arguments? And both took sides with equally weak reasons.
Zehpirdd with the "Kenpachi rule extended" crap. V7 with "Either you don't think at all or you are aggresive scum hiding it poorly" which really doesn't say anything.
So far I think Zephirdd, V7 or Risen is leaning scummy.
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I am, here, reading the thread.
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Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz.
2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing.
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On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote:
Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz.
2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing.
Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary.
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@Dirkzor: I have seen other players prepare posts before the day 1 post regardless of alignment. I don't think this can be taken as an indicator for scummy behaviour.
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On September 06 2012 21:12 Ange777 wrote:
@Dirkzor: I have seen other players prepare posts before the day 1 post regardless of alignment. I don't think this can be taken as an indicator for scummy behaviour.
It can if said post was altered as it clearly was in Risen's case. There is no way he could have know about prplhz's post before the game so that was added after the game started.
either way I agree this is a minor thing. It just rubs the wrong way...
What do you think about people taking sides on the prplhz vs. risen thing and the reason given?
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I don't know about Zeph. Has there been any real success with the (extended) Kenpachi rule?
Anyway, Zeph's reasoning sounds more reasonable to me than V7's. I see Risen's first post as a common seen fluffy first post.
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EBWOP:
I don't know about Zeph. Has there been any real success with the (extended) Kenpachi rule?
Anyway, Zeph's reasoning sounds more reasonable to me than V7's. I see Risen's first post as a common seen fluffy first post and therefore don't understand V7's vote.
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On September 06 2012 20:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 19:06 Bluelightz wrote:
Opinion's on Risen:
While, I usually take the "HOLY SHIT WTF?" route on VT claims d1, I think this claim, is a legitimate claim, because:
1.His defensive behavior once voted back from prplhz.
2.Him actually pointing a finger to a guy who support's him.
Also gonna check zeph's filter after GSL and MW3 playing. Both points can be scum traits aswell as town traits. I still see his VT claim as stupid and unnecesary.
Could you explain why those could be scum traits?
Comparison of Zeph/V7's vote's:
On September 06 2012 06:43 Zephirdd wrote:
Risen is not scum, or at least he doesn't look scum based on meta. I could tell you why, but it's information about an ongoing game. Suffice to say he flipped scum there and he looked very differently from these initial three posts.
On the other hand, a rule that seems to work a lot is Kenpachi Rule extended: everytime someone cares about some bullshit from the first post of a player, he's scum.
This applies for both prplhz and Risen here, but only one of them is an OMGUS.
That was quick huh
##vote prplhz
Point no.1 Saying that by meta he IS town (which I believe he is, but for other reasons), but doesn't explain HOW is it different (even though it's an ongoing game, I think zeph could've give at least a small detail.
Point no.2 Times how that rule has worked, is irrelevant (I don't think that a rule that worked alot might ALWAYS work).
Point no.3 Vote's prplhz off an OMGUS (doesn't explain why it's scummy)
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On September 06 2012 12:09 vaderseven wrote:First off, I agree with prplhz that his vote on Risen is NOT an omgus. I also agree with his general read on Risen and would like to add to it. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote:(img removed by vaderseven) I am Fruitdealer. I am able to use my brain to track people down. I advocate a platform of macro-oriented play. If we play smart and safe, I'm confident we can hold off the dirty cheesers left among us. We are an elite group, we 9, don't let filthy cheesers ruin our gameplay!!! On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote:
hello
everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum
also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is?
thanks Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz This post bothers me alot. Your first post is to declare, with a big bold picture and green text, that you are Green and that we should trust you. You go on to say some feel good stuff about how we will win cuz we are awesomesauce or something. What prplhz wrote there is fairly standard first post kinda stuff. He is asking people to post so that he can scum hunt... so that makes him scum?? I see no merit to that thought. I really just don't like your play at all this game Risen. I am feeling fairly sure, for a day 1, that you are either not thinking AT ALL before you post (and I think I recall playing with you before and not thinking that) or you are scum and just not doing a 100% job of hiding it. Of the two possibles there, I find it a fair chance for it to be that you are aggressive scum that is hiding it poorly. ##vote Risen
He explain's why he think's prplhz is town, and explains why Risen's post's are scummy.
Who I think MIGHT be scum from this is, Zephirdd, but the balance might be shifted by the point's of that V7's post seems more careful (explain's everything) while Zeph's is less careful (quick look at the post into he's SCUM).
Conclusion:
Zephirdd slightly leaning scum because if his response
Vaderseven Null, will read more into his filter later (mostly thinking about the careful/reckless response to the Risen/prplhz voting)
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
BL, what do you think of Keirathi?
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On September 06 2012 21:33 Ange777 wrote:
EBWOP:
I don't know about Zeph. Has there been any real success with the (extended) Kenpachi rule?
Anyway, Zeph's reasoning sounds more reasonable to me than V7's. I see Risen's first post as a common seen fluffy first post and therefore don't understand V7's vote.
Yes.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=12#232
I don't think there is much more difference from my vote to Risen's vote on this game. I didn't even talk to my teammates before posting that, and JingleHell's first post is complaining about me.
I go into QT and say "wtf jingle that was a bait for other townies"
his answer is "I want to follow my meta, I'm very aggressive as town"
There is also this one:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=5#84
Fact is that it's a completely null post that makes scum think it's a good way to start a case or simply a way to blend in. It is a scum bait. I call it "extended" because it is no different from the VT-claim Kenpachi Rule that so well works on other games, like NMM2:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058¤tpage=7#130
(Bluelightz was scum)
On Bluelightz' case,
1. Now that game is over, I'll go for it. Risen does not claim stupid null shit. That's it. At least he looks different from both games(this and DN mini); I can't say he's getting better over time though.
2. The number of times a rule has worked is relevant. Mafia is a game of chances and nothing is 100%(except the setup).
3. It's scummy because it's a O-M-G-U-S what the hell. Not because he is voting whoever voted him, it's because he is voting for the reasoning "you can't be serious about this". Kinda outlined it on the following posts nicely.
On another note, I have a question to Risen
Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Zeph, you can answer me too
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Inactive, trying to make sense out of stuff, not really pushing for a side or giving opinions that we can rely on later.
Indecisive Townie or Scum
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On September 06 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote:
BL, what do you think of Keirathi?
He's Null, based on his lack of post's (His only post's are "People have made dumb cases, Risen's case is one" "Kenpachi rule + OMGUS > Kenpachi Rule" "prplhz i dun has strong read on u so no vote"). I would wait for him to form a "stronger" read on someone before fingering him an alignment.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 06 2012 07:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:59 Risen wrote:On September 06 2012 06:57 prplhz wrote:
Could you explain to me how my vote qualifies as an OMGUS and how this makes me scum?
Kenpachi rule my ass. It looks to me like you're thinking "Hmm, I should vote for either Risen or prplhz.. I guess I'll go for prplhz" and then you cling to whatever dumb rule instead of trying to form an opinion yourself. He's saying instead of defending yourself you took the oh my god he sucks route and voted me. I don't think so.I think he's saying that you first post was Kenpachi Rule based on prplhz's first post. Then prplhz Kenpachi Rule'd you first post, and added OMGUS. Kenpachi Rule < Kenpachi Rule + OMGUS is basically what he was trying to say I think.The math makes sense, but the premise doesn't necessarily. I've seen plenty of townies go out of their way to make bogus cases based on someone's first post just to get discussion started. I don't think its particularly alignment telling.
On September 06 2012 07:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:10 prplhz wrote:
I'm not really going to defend myself against your case because it is beyond horrible. It's "You are friendly and confident and you are going to rely 100% on other people's opinion on Ange777 instead of forming your own this makes you scum". Yes, this is your case. First argument makes no sense, second argument is speculating about what I might or might not do in the future which makes it void. It's like if I speculated that you were going to claim scum in the future and then I'll just vote for you now because of it. Zephirdd's case makes no sense because my vote wasn't an OMGUS, his entire post is sketchy.
@Keirathi Do you actually have an opinion or are you satisfied just trying to clarify stuff that other people said? What is there to have an opinion about? Both votes are almost equally dumb, but I'm not sure how to read them alignment wise. TL Mafia in general is full of dumb early votes that almost never actually catch scum. This recent post brings up some more questions though. If you weren't "really going to defend [yourself] against [his] case because it is beyond horrible", then why did you feel the need to OMGUS his vote with a vote of your own?
On September 06 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:24 prplhz wrote:
You are saying "If you didn't think his case on you was any good then why did you vote for him?". What???
Yes. That's exactly what I'm asking. Was Risen's vote dumb? Yes. Was it scummily dumb? Hard to say for sure, but first guess would be no. If he has other scummy things to go along with it, then obviously my opinion would change. It felt a lot like a random pressure vote that happens in every game ever. Did it deserve a vote? No, I don't think it did. People make bad "cases" all the time, especially early in day1. The victim's reactions to them are just as telling as the bad case. See NMM XXII. Mordanis made a stupidly bad case on me super early in day 1. What did I do? Brushed it off with a 1-liner and kept looking for scum. Basically, I find it hard to believe that you could get a solid scum read on Risen based on his "case" considering basically every TL Mafia game starts out with an equally dumb "case".
On September 06 2012 07:49 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:40 prplhz wrote:
@Keirathi First you don't know what to think, now you've suddenly formed a pretty strong opinion on me but no vote. I don't have a strong opinion on you. At least, certainly not strong enough for a vote yet. I don't believe in throwing votes around lightly. If you look through all of my games, I've only unvoted TWICE in all of them. I need information to make up my mind, but once I do I stick with it. That's why I'm asking you questions and writing out responses to your posts.
##Vote: Keirathi
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EPT
