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On September 03 2012 08:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:where you been!?
I can't imagine you missed me. (Dota, World of Tanks, Diablo3, summer, preparing for medical university)
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so many lurkers, no wonder scum is skewing the thread their way
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On September 04 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote:I propose a town circle: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oQoiR.jpg) Discuss.
I think you should start scumhunting or we will lynch you
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On September 04 2012 07:51 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 04 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote:I propose a town circle: Discuss. I think you should start scumhunting or we will lynch you Rewok and austinmcc are my top scumreads - what are yours?
BM is my top scumread, he said
On September 04 2012 07:08 Bill Murray wrote:
just before day post and we havent heard from him since.
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@Brood
Well I am EU, so when the game started at 0:30 I wrote a joke about lurkers, you shouldn't take the first couple of posts seriously come on man. Then I went to sleep. Also I had no idea on what stance to take on the whole sloosh vs Toad thingy so I am waiting on my scumbuddies to tell me what to say.
Meh, last game I was one of the main pushers for the d1 claim lynch and that didn't work out in the end.
Town-Mattchew would claim Nosy Neighbour if he what ??
Scum-Mattchew would claim Nosy Neighbour for what ?
I have seriously no clue, someone help me
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Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
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On September 04 2012 23:29 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. What exactly would Matt be protecting himself from? Scum has no trackers or watchers. They have 0 way to know if anyone has visited anyone, so there's no reason for Matt to give himself an innocent explanation for visiting people if he's blue. Whereas it looks like you could read the nosy neighbor description as self-aware or not, you can't read the roles and think that you needed to claim nosy neighbor to confuse scum. Moreover, although there's been a lot of Mattchew discussion even after palmar's answer, there's also been a lot of discussion of other players and how they interacted with his claim. In no way has all D1 discussion been removed.
My bad, I missed that scum has no way of tracking. FML
Although he thought that millers are selfaware. He claimed and asked for others to claim, he can be a tracker, track everyone who claims.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC
Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched. On September 04 2012 13:08 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Mattchew
I generally agree with everything that sloOsh said above. As far as I'm concerned, my vote will stay on him unless another nosy neighbor comes along and role-claims.
What? So Hapahauli thinks its not scum play, then sloOsh suggest that one of BC or Matt is scum (based on that BC is forcing 1-1 with Matt and he's lying so he is the scum) then immediately switches vote to Matt when votes started piling up on him.
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On September 05 2012 00:46 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:42 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 04 2012 23:29 austinmcc wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. What exactly would Matt be protecting himself from? Scum has no trackers or watchers. They have 0 way to know if anyone has visited anyone, so there's no reason for Matt to give himself an innocent explanation for visiting people if he's blue. Whereas it looks like you could read the nosy neighbor description as self-aware or not, you can't read the roles and think that you needed to claim nosy neighbor to confuse scum. Moreover, although there's been a lot of Mattchew discussion even after palmar's answer, there's also been a lot of discussion of other players and how they interacted with his claim. In no way has all D1 discussion been removed. My bad, I missed that scum has no way of tracking. FML Although he thought that millers are selfaware. He claimed and asked for others to claim, he can be a tracker, track everyone who claims. + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC
Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched. On September 04 2012 13:08 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Mattchew
I generally agree with everything that sloOsh said above. As far as I'm concerned, my vote will stay on him unless another nosy neighbor comes along and role-claims. What? So Hapahauli thinks its not scum play, then sloOsh suggest that one of BC or Matt is scum (based on that BC is forcing 1-1 with Matt and he's lying so he is the scum) then immediately switches vote to Matt when votes started piling up on him. You're not making sense, Mattchew as Tracker needs a night to clear each person. That's three nights of info wasted on finding townies. I find your whole stance on Mattchew strange if not scummy. Someone already pointed out that him as a blue doesn't make sense, and your doubt relies on a roleclaim by Matt. What about Matt's actual play makes you think he is a blue/sasin?
Are you deliberately doesnt understand what I am writing or what? He thought millers are selfaware. I can imagine a scenario where he's a tracker so he came up with a plan to have everyone who's moving claim miller so he can track them. Also he can very well be an assassin. I already explained why I highly doubt he's scum, he has teammates who would have told him about the rules. There is no way he fakeclaimed without discussing it with his buddies first. His play? He did nothing but the claim then disappear. He can be back anytime so I rather not draw conclusions about that.
I won't vote Matt because TL Mafia LIII. VE claimed Jailkeeper D1, I think that was the worst claim of all times. I made the first case on that, it was similar in a way that whether townVE or scumVE it was a very bad claim. We lynched him, and since almost everyone could easily vote on him without any reasoning we had no real info about anyone. Sounds familiar?
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On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?
If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too.
If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)
Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
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On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch.
Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him
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On September 05 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew).
So you voted Matt because of BC's confidence. ?!
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:31 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him 1) because, as already mentioned, that kind of play is the most stupid thing you could do as townie. It's like fakeclaiming a red check on someone because you think the guy is mafia. You just don't do that. Never. Ever. 2) Yeah and clearly I'm the guy trying to stop discussion. My filter just screams "don't talk about anything and just vote guys!"... 3) I'm not answering selective. I'm answering in a way that people have to think about what I'm posting. If they don't I'll realize that and frankly you're one of the people who are reading whithout thinking for at least a second what's actually in the post and you've just proven it again. So stop whining about answers and try to show the will to understand what's going on. 4) I said the fakeclaim has a purpose as mafia while it has none as town. The purpose as mafia would be to blend in if he assumes millers are self-aware. I never said it was successful. Another example of you not even thinking about what was posted and just answering in a hury. I don't like that. 5) I answered this with those 4 (now 5) bullet points to make it a little easier to understand from your point.
Sorry, but you are still ignoring my question. I will make it easy on you:
Why is it more probable to make a mistake as scum when you CAN have discussion about your actions with the other ones, then it is to make a mistake alone?
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:45 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:40 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew). So you voted Matt because of BC's confidence. ?! + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:31 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him 1) because, as already mentioned, that kind of play is the most stupid thing you could do as townie. It's like fakeclaiming a red check on someone because you think the guy is mafia. You just don't do that. Never. Ever. 2) Yeah and clearly I'm the guy trying to stop discussion. My filter just screams "don't talk about anything and just vote guys!"... 3) I'm not answering selective. I'm answering in a way that people have to think about what I'm posting. If they don't I'll realize that and frankly you're one of the people who are reading whithout thinking for at least a second what's actually in the post and you've just proven it again. So stop whining about answers and try to show the will to understand what's going on. 4) I said the fakeclaim has a purpose as mafia while it has none as town. The purpose as mafia would be to blend in if he assumes millers are self-aware. I never said it was successful. Another example of you not even thinking about what was posted and just answering in a hury. I don't like that. 5) I answered this with those 4 (now 5) bullet points to make it a little easier to understand from your point. Sorry, but you are still ignoring my question. I will make it easy on you: Why is it more probable to make a mistake as scum when you CAN have discussion about your actions with the other ones, then it is to make a mistake alone? And I'm going to make it easy on you. I answered the question here: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. and Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
I really hope town will read this too. Since you are still ignoring my question, quiet deliberately and your early gameplay I think you are scum
##Vote: Toadesstern
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On September 05 2012 03:08 Rewok wrote:
Ottox - This is a lot of fighting for a random townie. Seems like a really specific save.
If Mattchew turns up Mafia, my next vote is Otto, for sure. Likewise, I'm not voting Ottow if Mattchew turns up green / blue.
Or, you know I can be scum trying to get towncred. Don't think about this, try to get into the discussion why is it more probable that a scum makes a mistake then a blue/assa.
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@austinmcc I mean mistake like bad play, whatever is his alignment he shouldn't have claimed. Tell me why is it more likely that he did it as scum then blue/assa? So everyone thinks that he did not communicate with his scumbuddies. THATS speculation. I think he is not scum. Why? We have zero information other than he did a fake-claim and everyone jumped on the wagon. No one answered why did they, other than Toads very weak- close to nothing meta reasoning.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 03:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:04 Ottoxlol wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:45 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:40 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew). So you voted Matt because of BC's confidence. ?! + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:31 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him 1) because, as already mentioned, that kind of play is the most stupid thing you could do as townie. It's like fakeclaiming a red check on someone because you think the guy is mafia. You just don't do that. Never. Ever. 2) Yeah and clearly I'm the guy trying to stop discussion. My filter just screams "don't talk about anything and just vote guys!"... 3) I'm not answering selective. I'm answering in a way that people have to think about what I'm posting. If they don't I'll realize that and frankly you're one of the people who are reading whithout thinking for at least a second what's actually in the post and you've just proven it again. So stop whining about answers and try to show the will to understand what's going on. 4) I said the fakeclaim has a purpose as mafia while it has none as town. The purpose as mafia would be to blend in if he assumes millers are self-aware. I never said it was successful. Another example of you not even thinking about what was posted and just answering in a hury. I don't like that. 5) I answered this with those 4 (now 5) bullet points to make it a little easier to understand from your point. Sorry, but you are still ignoring my question. I will make it easy on you: Why is it more probable to make a mistake as scum when you CAN have discussion about your actions with the other ones, then it is to make a mistake alone? And I'm going to make it easy on you. I answered the question here: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. and Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense I really hope town will read this too. Since you are still ignoring my question, quiet deliberately and your early gameplay I think you are scum ##Vote: Toadesstern actually LOL this is a scumslip: Are you telling me you're not town?
You got me :D Nice ignoring my question for the 5th time in a row. You claim to be not newbie right? So then why is your reasoning so weak? Are you making these up on the go? You broke under the smallest pressure lol
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I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed.
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On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out.
why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died?
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On September 05 2012 09:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. This isn't a self aware miller game. So you went into the whole hypothetical thing in order to search for a reason to not lynch matt?
But he thought it was.
Since no one made a case other than he's lying therefore scum. I tried reasoning his claim and I got to the conclusion that he could very well be a blue or assa. He's even more likely to be one because it was a bad play whatever his alignment is, but as scum he could have discussed it with his team so there is less room for making a mistake this big. I was baffled by the fact that no town had came to this and asked why is that. 19 or something people already voted for him, I can only see it as a very easy wagon. People jump on with zero discussion, zero contribution.
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On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player.
Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy
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On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this
So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1,
some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about?
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On September 05 2012 10:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? You look horrible for your defense of matt, however you keep saying near universally the same crap over and over. You have been responded to multiple times and now just look even worse. The only reason I think you could possibly be town is I think if you were red your team would have told you to quit it by now.
Yet you are not answering my response about why would a scum claim And I have to repeat the same crap over and over again because no one is answering. Everyone is on Matt. No one can say why is it more likely that hes scum than blue or assa, no one voted on him with some case explaining it. Scum planted it in the thread that it is so and new players doesnt want to discuss it fearing a lynch? I have no idea.
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On September 05 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? Okay I'll try it a last time. Starting with stuff that is fast to explain and not with stuff that came first in your question: He wanted other people to claim:That's a null. That either means he's a townie and thinks claiming is the right thing to do for a NN, or he tried to lay a trap because he thinks it's the right thing to do for a NN, or he is mafia and thinks it's the right thing to do for a townie-NN. The important thing is that in ALL scenarios he thinks it's the right thing to do. All you get out of that is that Matt honestly thought it's a good move. Which isn't suprising considering that he claimed to begin with. Why not a dumb blue move:What you are suggesting is that he's a blue who is deliberately causing chaos, trying to get himself lynched and to go out with a bang with someone else, possibly a couple of cycles (at least one though) later wastomg at least 2 full cycles or if things go wrong wasting even more time while causing chaos WITHOUT actually lynching a mafia after a couple of cycles while still having ruined the discussion of multiple cycles because clearly everyone would be talking about his move only. Yeah I don't really see that happening, as already mentioned. Could he be an AssaSure, could be, however it's pretty obvious he's EITHER Assa or mafia and never ever a townie. Lynching into "either assa or mafia" seems like a good deal to me. It gave scum an easy d1So because he gave scum an incredible easy d1 you consider him more likely to be town? I don't see how that logic is working. Furthermore I don't think had an easy d1 no matter what Matt flips. We had an incredible good first half of d1. I've never seen a game start this quickly.
You are so funny. It is bad for scum, it is bad for assa, it is bad for blue. It is bad. I did not asked that. I know it. You failed to answer my question (why is it more probable to do this as scum? it is bad for scum too.) for the xth time, I guess its better if you ignore me from now on, we clearly don't speak the same language.
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On September 05 2012 10:30 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:26 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:48 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 05 2012 09:47 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. Watcher see 2 ppl over a dead body, one of them claimed noisy. lynch the other, if he flips not red vig/rb the fake noisy Which is the same thing that would happen if he was a blue fakeclaiming nosy isn't it? Unless he has a visiting role there's no reason to claim nosy neighbor like that and your scenario still applies. No one is denying that what he did was stupid but I've seen scum do much dumber things than this So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? Okay I'll try it a last time. Starting with stuff that is fast to explain and not with stuff that came first in your question: He wanted other people to claim:That's a null. That either means he's a townie and thinks claiming is the right thing to do for a NN, or he tried to lay a trap because he thinks it's the right thing to do for a NN, or he is mafia and thinks it's the right thing to do for a townie-NN. The important thing is that in ALL scenarios he thinks it's the right thing to do. All you get out of that is that Matt honestly thought it's a good move. Which isn't suprising considering that he claimed to begin with. Why not a dumb blue move:What you are suggesting is that he's a blue who is deliberately causing chaos, trying to get himself lynched and to go out with a bang with someone else, possibly a couple of cycles (at least one though) later wastomg at least 2 full cycles or if things go wrong wasting even more time while causing chaos WITHOUT actually lynching a mafia after a couple of cycles while still having ruined the discussion of multiple cycles because clearly everyone would be talking about his move only. Yeah I don't really see that happening, as already mentioned. Could he be an AssaSure, could be, however it's pretty obvious he's EITHER Assa or mafia and never ever a townie. Lynching into "either assa or mafia" seems like a good deal to me. It gave scum an easy d1So because he gave scum an incredible easy d1 you consider him more likely to be town? I don't see how that logic is working. Furthermore I don't think had an easy d1 no matter what Matt flips. We had an incredible good first half of d1. I've never seen a game start this quickly. You are so funny. It is bad for scum, it is bad for assa, it is bad for blue. It is bad. I did not asked that. I know it. You failed to answer my question (why is it more probable to do this as scum? it is bad for scum too.) for the xth time, I guess its better if you ignore me from now on, we clearly don't speak the same language. because it is bad for town in 100% of the cases. It never ends up being good. It can work for mafia and end up good or be bad. The question isn't wether or not it was good. The question is why he wanted to claim. He wanted to claim because he thought it's a good idea. That's the whole point you're ignoring. You keep on telling people "well herpa derpa but you see how horrible it went". Noone cares about it because that has nothing to do with the situation.
On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
Nice slip there scum.
Assa could have a plan to get the other assa to claim also so he checks the claims.
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On September 05 2012 10:36 Hapahauli wrote:
@Ottoxlol
Firstly, it's a bad idea for any playertype. Now we need to figure out among which category is most likely:
Town
Most unlikely. Townies have no incentive to fake-claim a miller role. In addition, Mattchew's complete silence after his like being confirmed makes it even less likely he's town. Townies would be dumping reads and desperately trying to scumhunt.
Blue
Also unlikely. Blues want to claim vanilla townie, not another role. There is no incentive to lie to town as a blue. Similar to the VT reasoning, Mattchew's silence is very telling of a non-town alligned role.
Assassin
Possible, but unlikely, considering that Assassins can survive NK's (but not lynches), and thus have no real reason to clam.
Mafia
Most likely. While it's undeniably stupid to fake-claim as mafia, there is mafia mentality behind the move. Mafia wants to establish themselves as townie early in the game, and it's pretty clear that Mattchew thought the "Nosy Neighbor" was a self-aware miller. Given that it makes sense for self-aware millers to instantly claim, Mattchew fake-claimed to get an alibi and look townie (and excuse his scummy night actions). It also makes sense for mafia to lie to the town.
He not just claimed he also asked the other millers to come out and claim. He could have tried to bait scum/the other assa.
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On September 05 2012 10:39 ShiaoPi wrote:
can you just shut up ottox, it gets annoying to see you harping around the same obvious nonsense all thread long....
nice post, off to sleep so you can lurk in peace for a while now
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On September 06 2012 01:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 01:01 imallinson wrote:On September 06 2012 00:47 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 00:36 imallinson wrote:On September 05 2012 21:40 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allison, what kind of info do you think it gives? If he is scum it puts a lot of suspicion on the people who are still defending him, Ottox and Gravan are the ones I would be most suspicious of. If he isn't scum then it puts the people who were really pushing for his lynch under some suspicion Toad, BC possibly me and a couple others. Of course if he is scum BC is almost definitely town because there would be no reason to sell out your team mate so early on. I'd say it's the other way around lol. If Matt somehow manages to flip green or blue Ottox looks really bad. If Matt flips red, whatever, it's a null imo. I can see why you could think Matt flipping red wouldn't give info by assuming scum insta bussed Matt after Palmar's post. But how does him flipping town look bad for Ottox? well 24 out of 25 people agree that Matt needs to die. If that 1 guy telling us Matt is not mafia is right that looks awfully like someone having information he shouldn't have or how in the world is the guy supposed to come to the conclusion that Matt's got to be "not mafia" if everyone else agrees he is. - If Matt flips 3rd party Ottox needs to die 100% because he's a mafia who knew that Matt is "not Mafia" and tried to go for towncred.
- If Matt flips town Ottox probably needs to die because he's still most likely a mafia who thought he's getting towncred that way. I'm saying "probably" because it's possible that he really is the 1 out of 25 chance to be town but that's unlikely.
- If Matt flips mafia Ottox is either an incredible paranoid townie or an incredible ballsy mafia player. Both equally likely/unlikely (imo) and therefore the flip itself tells nothing so we have to resort to normal analysis.
I already told you my thought process, wtf is this post.
He claimed, I looked at why would a scum claim and found no good reason, then looked at why a blue or assa would claim and found no good reason. So everyone condemned him as scum for some reason, I was amazed how can everyone let vote ppl without proper content and provide a possible easy wagon so I tried to get as much out of everyone why would they do that (lot of "he lied so hes scum"-> there is no content to discuss). If anything if he flips red every newb or scum will wagon on me, if he flips black/blue then we have at least a couple of ppl with content talking about him, I explained why I think he's more likely to be blue or black in my calculations but I never said that he is 100% not scum.
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Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner.
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On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense.
At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke.
I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely
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On September 06 2012 04:05 Toadesstern wrote:
Ah screw that guy... I'm just not going to answer him anymore. It's pointless...
Yes, and I already asked you to do that, you speak italian while I speak english so.
On September 06 2012 04:06 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 03:34 Ottoxlol wrote:
I already told you my thought process, wtf is this post.
He claimed, I looked at why would a scum claim and found no good reason ---SNIP Stopped reading. Let's try again. You're telling me you couldn't find a benefit for scum to fake claim nosy neighbor?
There is no good reason. It was dumb, I thought we already agreed on that. There can be if it were a self-aware miller game but if it would be there could be reason to claim it as blue or assa too.
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On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing.
You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it.
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This must be the weakest case ever. Try reading its fun
Do you think there is anyone who could be swayed from voting Matt? No. Hence no cases. Not from me, not from anyone. I suggested to talk about Matt and why is it ok to reduce the whole discussion to OMG OTTOXLOL WANT TO KNOW WHY WE VOTED SO HES SCUM
I did not forgot about it. Is it enough to push a case? No. Wtf is wrong with you.
Its not the exact opposite, are you from the states for real? It is as it is. I asked not only the active ppl. I asked everyone. I had a discussion with actives because they answered? Are you really this bad or am I missing something.
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On September 06 2012 05:58 Hapahauli wrote:Ottox - it isn't just you not pushing a case... it's about you not doing anything to pursue your reads. Also, " I suggested to talk about Matt" is a pretty laughable description for the actions in your filter - you didn't suggest a conversation, you've been not-reading and pretty much ignoring every argument for Mattchew for insane reasoning. Why are you picking fights with people who are actively telling you why Mattchew is mafia? You said you were suspicious of... Show nested quote +Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. What part about your actions have pursued these people? They haven't.
OHH so thats your problem, I write posts in english but you only speak italian, its much more clearer now. Srsly, why do you claim to read my filter when you come out with such stupid lies?
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On September 06 2012 05:58 Hapahauli wrote:Ottox - it isn't just you not pushing a case... it's about you not doing anything to pursue your reads. Also, " I suggested to talk about Matt" is a pretty laughable description for the actions in your filter - you didn't suggest a conversation, you've been not-reading and pretty much ignoring every argument for Mattchew for insane reasoning. Why are you picking fights with people who are actively telling you why Mattchew is mafia? You said you were suspicious of... Show nested quote +Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. What part about your actions have pursued these people? They haven't.
This post I print and put out on my fridge.
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On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:@Ottox:First: Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing. You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long... Second: Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation. And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it.
I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too.
So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters,
This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread.
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Toad is lying again, I explained it multiple times what I think yet he writes
"He is saying it makes no sense for mafia to claim like that because it failed, therefore it was bad."
No. I am saying it makes no sense for mafia to claim because it is bad. BC tried to tell me why, but when I answered he disappeared. Strange. Why do you keep talking about me when you are clearly not capable of understanding what I am writing?
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You did not answered why is it more probable to do this as scum then as assa or blue. You are still dodging it. You write a lot of spam but contribute negative, try to stop the discussion.
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Sorry, next time try not to bend reality to your needs, maybe I wont call you a liar. And I answered why would it be stupid as scum to claim miller EVEN if it was self-aware miller.
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On September 06 2012 06:44 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:34 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:@Ottox:First: On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing. You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long... Second: On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation. And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it. I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too. So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters, This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread. Wtf. How is that: On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does. As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him. His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go. + On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter. Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this. A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night. A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that. A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason. tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases. However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example. So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later. + On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum.
I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate?
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On September 06 2012 06:48 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:45 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:44 grush57 wrote:On September 06 2012 06:34 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:@Ottox:First: On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing. You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long... Second: On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation. And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it. I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too. So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters, This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread. Wtf. How is that: On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does. As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him. His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go. + On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter. Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this. A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night. A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that. A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason. tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases. However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example. So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later. + On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum. I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate? BECAUSE HE SCUM SLIPPED. HOLY SHIT. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU
No he did not. All we know he played bad and lied. Thats not a scumslip. Why are you writing in all caps? Is it because you know your argument is invalid?
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On September 06 2012 06:53 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:52 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:48 grush57 wrote:On September 06 2012 06:45 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:44 grush57 wrote:On September 06 2012 06:34 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:@Ottox:First: On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
[quote]
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing. You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long... Second: On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation. And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it. I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too. So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters, This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread. Wtf. How is that: On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does. As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him. His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go. + On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter. Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this. A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night. A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that. A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason. tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases. However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example. So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later. + On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum. I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate? BECAUSE HE SCUM SLIPPED. HOLY SHIT. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU No he did not. All we know he played bad and lied. Thats not a scumslip. Why are you writing in all caps? Is it because you know your argument is invalid? lol Well you have my vote day 2 :D
I think I wont make it till day2, not a problem, I don't want to play with a town immune to reasonable arguments but eating scum bs.
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On September 06 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:52 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:48 grush57 wrote:On September 06 2012 06:45 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:44 grush57 wrote:On September 06 2012 06:34 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:@Ottox:First: On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
[quote]
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing. You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long... Second: On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation. And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it. I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too. So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters, This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread. Wtf. How is that: On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does. As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him. His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go. + On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter. Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this. A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night. A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that. A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason. tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases. However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example. So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later. + On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum. I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate? BECAUSE HE SCUM SLIPPED. HOLY SHIT. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU No he did not. All we know he played bad and lied. Thats not a scumslip. Why are you writing in all caps? Is it because you know your argument is invalid? Fact #1) Mattchew lied. We both agree on this. Fact #2) The purpose of Mattchew's claim was to prevent him from looking suspicious if he was tracked/watched. See the below quote: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Fact #3) Mattchew has made no attempts to defend himself after getting his lie confirmed, and has only re-entered the thread to troll. #2 proves that he's not Town. He acknowledged that he was going to "visit" people. Townies don't "visit" people, hence he cannot be town. #3 proves that he's not Blue. A blue role would want to be helpful to the town before he died. He would also roleclaim if he was Blue. This leaves two possibilities: Mafia or Assassin. Assassin is unlikely, since they are immune to night kills and have no reason to put themselves at risk. The question of "stupid play for Mafia" is irrelevant, since it already happened. Given that he lied, the only plausible scenarios are he's Mafia or Assassin.
Are you purposely avoiding he asked the others to claim too?
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On September 06 2012 07:03 Bill Murray wrote:
Ottox you care to make a top 3 scumread like I have? sorry to say you need vigged, but it'd be better if you would stop posting, or actually.. you know... do some work by reading filters and making logical cases ...wow this looks like coaching. I see... I see... maybe I should ease up on my suspicion of Forumite.
Scum could easily just be playing the lurker game this game, but if that's the case, let 'em sit back while players like BC and Toad get confirmed.
Toad is scum.
Hapahauli confirmed my suspicions by his last post, he's purposely trying to skew the discussion.
I think these two are defending their mates by not letting the Matt discussion go on -> the other 2 possibly are lurkers who voted on Matt with no real content. imallinson Z-BosoN Shady Sands DarthPunk ShiaoPi BlackMamba24 goodkarma all voted Matt after Palmar's announcment and provide little to no reasoning. Bad town or scum can easily be among them
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On September 06 2012 07:21 Z-BosoN wrote:@austinNo he didn't... he still thinks Toad is scum and still insists that matt is not.
By logic it has more chance that he is blue or black and everyone throws this out because some scum leading the thread. Toad tried if he can make me get off his mates, he failed. Its obvious that even if Matt's scm, scum is the only who doesnt want us to discuss it.
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I tried helping town by making a discussion, Hapa and Toad tried to silence it. They did lied, ignored half of a post to make me look stupid etc. Shoot them.
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On September 06 2012 07:51 BlackMamba24 wrote:
You'll find most of the scum team in these three groups.
1. People who went actively or softly against the Mattchew lynch: Ottoxlol/Gravan
2. People who came in after Palmar confirmed it and made fluff posts
3. At least one active person, probably Bill Murray. He's seemed to focus a lot on people like MiltonKram/Hapahauli neither of whom are scummy at all and meanwhile his rhetoric/language seems very much an attempt to buddy up with me or other people.
"Well that settles it...##Vote: Mattchew /disappear from thread"
Ottoxlol is scum. If he isn't, he needs to read Ver's guide 100 times before he signs up for another game. He didn't present an alternate target. His only clear motivation was to defend Mattchew NOT to lynch scum. He says Hapa and Toad tried to silence him and lied, but he never pushed either of them as a lynch target. Worthless vote on Toad who isn't even remotely scummy. Vig's absolutely hit this guy tonight.
This is the only time you're gonna get general reads because I could die tonight. Town players, serious scumhunters, take another look at sloOsh and Shady Sands. sloOsh was absent for the majority of the thread, asking a lot of questions in the beginning (not alignment indicative in and of itself, scum do it for cred town do it to pressure) and being very very invested in everyones opinions, disappearing when mattchew is 100% getting lynched, then pops up at night "Hey guys who do we kill next?" That's scum behavior through and through.
Shady Sands was far more FARRRR more active in Death Note Mafia. I think Assassins should hit both of these targets tonight because I believe them to be either black or red.
If you're unsure if someone is scum/assassin but have good reason to think they are scum, broadcast their case as an assassin so that assassins will hit the scum at night and help us win faster. I'm gonna read over Bill Murray's filter a couple times and doublecheck everything since I don't want to make the same mistake I made with GoodKarma again and if something comes of it, I will post a case just before the day comes. Or before I go to bed.
You arent even aware of the rules. No assassin would shoot scum, they investigate first. And i have to read guides :D Why am I playing bad when you don't get the simplest argument I put forward? Or my explanation of my actions.
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Come on guys, now you are just embarrassing yourselves. what difference does it make in my post if there are 4-5-6-7-8 scum? If that is a scumslip in your opinion.. I really hope you guys get your shit together
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Ofc I don't give a shit about this game anymore when everyone ignores logic, even you failed to answer my question about why the scum would claim.
@Darth I already answered it. It is stupid. You almost uniquely amongst the player realize my motivation but then
On September 06 2012 09:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Yet his behaviour is at stark and direct opposition with his stated intention. He has absolutely crapped up the thread and actively limited discussion and scum hunting throughout day one. When I went to sleep yesterday the main topic of conversation were several people repeating themselves Ad nauseum and the direct consequence of this is that other topics of conversation have been drowned out in the noise. Now people may look at Ox and say that he is just a bad player or whatever, but when someone's stated motivations are in direct contradiction to his behaviour I see scum.
His defense of mattchew was incredibly wishy-washy in that he never explicitly states that he believes him to be town. He talks in probabilities and shifts the burden of proof onto others by asking 'why is it more likely for scum to do this than town?' whilst ignoring all rational explanations for the current situation.
He has been incredibly effective in making discussion of anything other than mattchew impossible whilst stating that this is what he wants to avoid.
TLDR; Ox's behaviour is in direct contradiction with his stated motivations. He has crapped all over the thread in order to make any conversation but the one that was already resolved incredibly difficult. Kid is Scum.
This. You fail to see that my behaviour made scum slip, made everyone talk more about why did they vote on Matt. Its exactly what my motivation was. I haven't been called kid in a while, it is offensive since you are the one incapable of understanding the most basic logic.
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EPT
