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ARGGHHH!!!!
This game is so annoying.
ShaioPi I want you to answer this one before deadline: Mav - do you think he is scum?
imallinson: any reason why you decided to snip out the timestamps in this post?
On September 12 2012 00:09 imallinson wrote:Z-BosonThe main thing that seems really off is this: Show nested quote +Can we, with bloodyc0bbler's 100% certainty, assume that there necessarily is one, and just one watcher?? If not 100%, how likely is it? I, along with everyone else it seems, don't see why this is relevant. He is trying to say lynching a blue is ok if we have another spare. I read that as him knowing BKE was blue and trying to justify lynching him. That screams scum to me. Then we get onto this: Show nested quote +Basically he's screaming out loud he knows austin is blue. Given how he was addressing austin, and the crumbs, it sounds reasonable, and is confirmed with this quote: Seems really inactive, however, so I'm not calling off a potential vig shot there... *looks at austin* Which is made AFTER night 1. However, his "crumbs", were made BEFORE night one, as were his other posts. If he actually suspected austin being blue, as mafia, it would be extremely advantageous to outright kill austin. He would be catching a blue in day one. I don't believe mafia would have the balls to note this and still not kill austin. My only concern is the possibility of him just leaving crumbs everywhere with his random comments. If you note, there's a lot of stuff you basically can't understand. I'm inclined to believe BM, however, because from his filter he clearly treated austin differently, something in which he did not do with anybody else. My questions are only to avoid this "random crumbing" theory I have, because otherwise that should be like a 95% clear. followed an hour later by: Show nested quote +First of all, BM didn't answer my questions, because since you guys are so blind, he threw suspicion towards austin AFTER he "blue claimed him"!! This is surely not the attitude of someone who was "absolutely sure he saw a blue". Observe, this post came after his so called "crumbs"
...
Bill Murray is SCUM and needs to die! This sudden flip from thinking BM is confirmed town to scum in the space of an hour makes no sense to me. In fact thinking BM was confirmed town in the first place makes no sense in itself. Forumite still seems off to me but ZB's posting screams scum, much more so than Forumite's. How he handled the BKE thing was just plain weird and anti-town and the flip on BM makes no sense from a town perspective either. ##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson
Because you straight up lie in quoting Z-boson's two quotes which have a whole day between this post and this post?
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Ah ninja'd. Good chance of stupid townie you would say?
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On September 12 2012 09:50 ShiaoPi wrote:
@sloosh:
I had him pegged as scum the day before ( even pulled out half a case), but his last post is feeling a lot like being a stupid townie. Not completely exonerating him, but lessened my suspicions. I would be concerned with toad, simply because he is still alive ( could change this night anyway) and also of bm it is hard enough to follow his train of thought, but lynching him always seems to end in coin flip cause of his trolling. Unsure about whom to lynch next day
Have general people you think you will look into?
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It's hard to be myself when I can conceivably build a case against the majority of the player base.
What do you think about strongandbig?
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Guh this is so messy.
I'm pretty sure that was both mafia KP and I don't understand why anyone would assume that any vigs we have would still have bullets left in this lurker infested town.
On September 12 2012 10:32 grush57 wrote:
Either him or Toad is scum.
Hey Grush, what is your current read of strongandbig & Toad?
Gravan
On September 13 2012 05:29 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote:Guys, I will have to go soon, and won't be able to post through the night. However, I don't want to die tonight, because I'm starting to get some decent scum reads, so I'm actually gonna claim here. I am a Mad Hatter And I absolutely know Toad is scum. His goodbye post, claiming that he is townie in supposedly a "Good-bye" post. His disappearance in day 3. His switch from grush + gravan to me and BM out of nowhere. His reluctance to post in D3. His flimsiness on forumite. His bullshit straight above. I'm not gonna bother making a whole case on this, because there is one thing that makes me go from 80% scum to 100%. I'm not gonna go into details, but if you want you can find it out for yourselves. I did a SHITTON of reading on N1 and N2, reading as carefully as I possibly could, turning on my hidden message finder mode. It is insanely subtle, but fuck yea, I saw it. Anyways, hats off to you wrote it, but what I don't understand is why you didn't go after him, knowing what you knew. When both me and hapa were on his tail after that post, you could have very well given us support... So yea, trust me when I say this, toad is absolutely 100% scum. Anyways, I've always thought him scum ever since that N1 post, and my bomb has always been, and will be tonight as well, on him. Thus, I am at no fear of death, because mafia wouldn't make this 1:1 trade, not in a million years. Of course Toad is going to throw is bullshit at us once again, saying how I'm making this up, how that's impossible because he's townie, etc... but trust me when you say this - he's in fact bullshitting us, he's scum. If you want to confirm it for yourselves, just read the posts in N1/N2 super-carefully, and you'll see what I mean, especially in them nested quotes. To the rest of you little lurking scum shitheads, I'll find you. An aggressive play.
Seriously, this is the laziest post ever. In an explosive contrast between Toad and Z-boson, all he drops is a meaningless post. This is scum who is getting lazy because town has been lynching each other (everyone on Ottoxlol, BKEXE, lynch between Z-Boson & Forumite).
On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. On September 12 2012 06:50 Gravan wrote:
I chose forumite over Z-Boson and Bill Murray because I am uncertain about them in general (as you chose to ignore). I also believe (also as you chose to ignore) that Forumite is scum because of the methods he is using as a 'defence', in addition to the reasons (such as flip-floppiness) presented in the strong cases posted here already.
With someone who might be scum that you are uncertain of, wouldn't you want to pursue a better read of them? Why would you lurk more when that is clearly what town is suffering from? Furthermore, everyone should check out imallinson's case here (as well as his newer case). Not only is it clear that there is a contradiction that he says Toad needs to be looked at (calling him scum in all but name) but he backtracks and doesn't call him scum, but the fact is that this Toad he found worth inspection is totally lacking from his filter at all.
I believe we have let him get by because of highly polarized lynches. Well not this time.
##Vote: Gravan
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Haha, just looked at Maverick32x and the only post he has on Gravan is a soft defence of him.
On September 12 2012 07:50 Maverick32x wrote:
Shady Sands- just scummy. Hard defends Shiao. Argues with Hapa (town). DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- So similar to the play style of ShiaoPi and there seems to be some really slight buddying occurring. He continues to live in "Matthchew" land and never seems to snap into the current thread which kind of shows me a lack of understanding. His most recent attack on Gravan to be honest is just an attempt to push an early vote while scum is being successful.
Hey Mav, why isn't Gravan on your scummy-lurker list?
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Not confirmed but it's a strong indicator. There was somewhat of a potential lynch building up against Z-Boson so scum would only have taken the route to shoot for the benefit of 2 deaths for 1 KP. If Toad were scum then they could have just shot someone else and pushed for Z-Boson (as seen from flips supported by town), lynches being the only thing scum are afraid of since I'm pretty sure there aren't any vigs left. We know Toad isn't scum so he is either town or assassin, and in either case we leave him alone.
Let's lynch Graven.
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On September 14 2012 01:20 strongandbig wrote:
I don't have a town read on gravan like I do on grush and billmurray, so I'd be willing to consolidate on him, but the case on him just feels too "wtf where is he" without enough "also this is why he's scum."
How does any part of my case call him out for lurking?
On September 13 2012 12:39 slOosh wrote:GravanShow nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:29 Gravan wrote:On September 13 2012 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote:Guys, I will have to go soon, and won't be able to post through the night. However, I don't want to die tonight, because I'm starting to get some decent scum reads, so I'm actually gonna claim here. I am a Mad Hatter And I absolutely know Toad is scum. His goodbye post, claiming that he is townie in supposedly a "Good-bye" post. His disappearance in day 3. His switch from grush + gravan to me and BM out of nowhere. His reluctance to post in D3. His flimsiness on forumite. His bullshit straight above. I'm not gonna bother making a whole case on this, because there is one thing that makes me go from 80% scum to 100%. I'm not gonna go into details, but if you want you can find it out for yourselves. I did a SHITTON of reading on N1 and N2, reading as carefully as I possibly could, turning on my hidden message finder mode. It is insanely subtle, but fuck yea, I saw it. Anyways, hats off to you wrote it, but what I don't understand is why you didn't go after him, knowing what you knew. When both me and hapa were on his tail after that post, you could have very well given us support... So yea, trust me when I say this, toad is absolutely 100% scum. Anyways, I've always thought him scum ever since that N1 post, and my bomb has always been, and will be tonight as well, on him. Thus, I am at no fear of death, because mafia wouldn't make this 1:1 trade, not in a million years. Of course Toad is going to throw is bullshit at us once again, saying how I'm making this up, how that's impossible because he's townie, etc... but trust me when you say this - he's in fact bullshitting us, he's scum. If you want to confirm it for yourselves, just read the posts in N1/N2 super-carefully, and you'll see what I mean, especially in them nested quotes. To the rest of you little lurking scum shitheads, I'll find you. An aggressive play. Seriously, this is the laziest post ever. In an explosive contrast between Toad and Z-boson, all he drops is a meaningless post. This is scum who is getting lazy because town has been lynching each other (everyone on Ottoxlol, BKEXE, lynch between Z-Boson & Forumite). Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 06:50 Gravan wrote:
I chose forumite over Z-Boson and Bill Murray because I am uncertain about them in general (as you chose to ignore). I also believe (also as you chose to ignore) that Forumite is scum because of the methods he is using as a 'defence', in addition to the reasons (such as flip-floppiness) presented in the strong cases posted here already. With someone who might be scum that you are uncertain of, wouldn't you want to pursue a better read of them? Why would you lurk more when that is clearly what town is suffering from? Furthermore, everyone should check out imallinson's case here (as well as his newer case). Not only is it clear that there is a contradiction that he says Toad needs to be looked at (calling him scum in all but name) but he backtracks and doesn't call him scum, but the fact is that this Toad he found worth inspection is totally lacking from his filter at all. I believe we have let him get by because of highly polarized lynches. Well not this time. ##Vote: Gravan
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On September 14 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:
You're more into a vet than sloOsh is for me. But that really doesn't matter anymore. I already said the moment foru flipped green that assumption of mine got either completely smashed or too complicated to figure out because we don't know if we have assassins to begin with.
So I don't really want to talk about it as it's incredible pointless right now.
Yes it is, now help us hunt scum.
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On September 14 2012 05:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:36 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 05:33 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:10 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Yeah but if you were mafia you would have shot Zboson to make yourself look more townie. You said this DIRECTLY after the mad hatter claim: On September 13 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I guess that's a fakeclaim to get you killed and test wether or not mafia wants me dead or not?
Because from what you post it sounds like you found something that you consider to be a scumslip.
If that's the case why don't you just post it? That shouldn't take too long.
However, I'm not mafia and therefore you won't find something like that but you're probably getting yourself killed. Have fun being dead and all, unless of course you are mafia YOURSELF, won't shoot yourself tonight (obviously I'd say) and want to play the "see that confirms Toad as mafia. If he was town mafia would have shot me to get 2 kills out of 1KP!" game tomorrow.
So I propose this:
Trackers go and track Z-Boson. If he's a Mad Hatter as he says he is and he genuinely believes me to be mafia he already has the bomb placed on me (as he just claimed) and therefore doesn't need to visit someone as he doesn't need to change the bomb and can just leave it on me. If that guy visits someone we've got ourselves a mafia :p So you being alive after Mad Hatter claim and boson is dead means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone. 1) If your town, mafia shoots ZBoson and hopes to kill you as well 2) If your mafia, you already were confident it was a fakeclaim and killed Zboson to somewhat confirm yourself. The fact that you act as it somewhat confirms you as town anymore than anything else is concerning. acting confident in the thread as mafia and shooting the guy in the balls who claims to have a bomb on you are two very different things. Again, yes I'm a bold mafia player in general but that? Risking everything when I'm totally fine (assuming I'm mafia) with just shooting someone else who did not claim to have a bomb on me? You now know that Z-Boson is town because he flipped town but you think anyone would have considered lynching me after his post? Even if both Boson and I survived I wouldn't even look bad because of that so there's not a single reason for me to take that gamble that could possibly lose my team (still assuming I'm mafia) the game just on the whim that I'm thinking the guy is fakeclaiming. There's just no reason to shoot Boson from a mafia perspective if I am mafia. Not a single one that isn't overshadowed by massive drawbacks even if I considered it to be a fakeclaim while there is a shitton of reasoning for shooting Boson if I'm town. Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place. I think MMT's continual harping on this subject is what he's using to substitute for actual scumhunting. He knows no one is going to ever lynch you, so his mislynching efforts will never see the light of day. That being said though, I think it's better that he dies tomorrow. Today is a day for Gravan. What do you think about him? Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:27 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Toad, look at Grav and tell me how you don't see a scum. I very much think he's scum. I like my vote on Mementoss better for the moment though. If only for the reason that I no longer want to lynch Mementoss first. Yeah it's between Grav and Mav for me. Leaning on Grav right now. Mementoss is not going to get lynched and I don't want him to get lynched right now, probably not even tomorrow. Don't think a mafia would so violently tell everybody how I'm looking stupid when he in fact knows that I'm town. A mafia usually wants to be on the right side of things if possible without killing his allies and therefore I'd assume mafias to be the ones going easy on me or actually defending me in front of other people to look good later on. Now way I'm going to get him lynched :p
So you are saying you think MMT is town now?
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On September 14 2012 05:52 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:50 slOosh wrote:On September 14 2012 05:42 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:36 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 05:33 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:10 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Yeah but if you were mafia you would have shot Zboson to make yourself look more townie. You said this DIRECTLY after the mad hatter claim: On September 13 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I guess that's a fakeclaim to get you killed and test wether or not mafia wants me dead or not?
Because from what you post it sounds like you found something that you consider to be a scumslip.
If that's the case why don't you just post it? That shouldn't take too long.
However, I'm not mafia and therefore you won't find something like that but you're probably getting yourself killed. Have fun being dead and all, unless of course you are mafia YOURSELF, won't shoot yourself tonight (obviously I'd say) and want to play the "see that confirms Toad as mafia. If he was town mafia would have shot me to get 2 kills out of 1KP!" game tomorrow.
So I propose this:
Trackers go and track Z-Boson. If he's a Mad Hatter as he says he is and he genuinely believes me to be mafia he already has the bomb placed on me (as he just claimed) and therefore doesn't need to visit someone as he doesn't need to change the bomb and can just leave it on me. If that guy visits someone we've got ourselves a mafia :p So you being alive after Mad Hatter claim and boson is dead means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone. 1) If your town, mafia shoots ZBoson and hopes to kill you as well 2) If your mafia, you already were confident it was a fakeclaim and killed Zboson to somewhat confirm yourself. The fact that you act as it somewhat confirms you as town anymore than anything else is concerning. acting confident in the thread as mafia and shooting the guy in the balls who claims to have a bomb on you are two very different things. Again, yes I'm a bold mafia player in general but that? Risking everything when I'm totally fine (assuming I'm mafia) with just shooting someone else who did not claim to have a bomb on me? You now know that Z-Boson is town because he flipped town but you think anyone would have considered lynching me after his post? Even if both Boson and I survived I wouldn't even look bad because of that so there's not a single reason for me to take that gamble that could possibly lose my team (still assuming I'm mafia) the game just on the whim that I'm thinking the guy is fakeclaiming. There's just no reason to shoot Boson from a mafia perspective if I am mafia. Not a single one that isn't overshadowed by massive drawbacks even if I considered it to be a fakeclaim while there is a shitton of reasoning for shooting Boson if I'm town. Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place. I think MMT's continual harping on this subject is what he's using to substitute for actual scumhunting. He knows no one is going to ever lynch you, so his mislynching efforts will never see the light of day. That being said though, I think it's better that he dies tomorrow. Today is a day for Gravan. What do you think about him? On September 14 2012 05:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:27 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Toad, look at Grav and tell me how you don't see a scum. I very much think he's scum. I like my vote on Mementoss better for the moment though. If only for the reason that I no longer want to lynch Mementoss first. Yeah it's between Grav and Mav for me. Leaning on Grav right now. Mementoss is not going to get lynched and I don't want him to get lynched right now, probably not even tomorrow. Don't think a mafia would so violently tell everybody how I'm looking stupid when he in fact knows that I'm town. A mafia usually wants to be on the right side of things if possible without killing his allies and therefore I'd assume mafias to be the ones going easy on me or actually defending me in front of other people to look good later on. Now way I'm going to get him lynched :p So you are saying you think MMT is town now? well I'm at least doubting his scuminess to a point that I want Grav and Mav lynched first.
But your posting says otherwise.
On September 14 2012 05:33 Toadesstern wrote:
Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place.
This is a clear town read. You would never say this to scum.
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On September 11 2012 01:21 Toadesstern wrote:
Let's be honest here:
I think if we lynch into one of either Forumite, S&B, BM or Z-Boson we're going to hit "not-townie" all the way. On September 14 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote:
Yeah I'd be willing to lynch anyone out of Gravan, Mementoss and Mav today (so far).
But I'm willing to sheep someone else today, for the good of town!
Something is definitely out of order here. It's like you don't care who get's lynched. How did your scum reads change so drastically?
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On September 14 2012 06:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:13 slOosh wrote:On September 11 2012 01:21 Toadesstern wrote:
Let's be honest here:
I think if we lynch into one of either Forumite, S&B, BM or Z-Boson we're going to hit "not-townie" all the way. On September 14 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote:
Yeah I'd be willing to lynch anyone out of Gravan, Mementoss and Mav today (so far).
But I'm willing to sheep someone else today, for the good of town! Something is definitely out of order here. It's like you don't care who get's lynched. How did your scum reads change so drastically? I explained that like 3 times. Do you want me to quote it or are you going to search for it yourself?
On September 13 2012 19:57 Toadesstern wrote:
I said either BM or Foru are mafia later on. Something like d2, n2 or d3 I guess? So that one would be the more updated read on BM but not sure if that still holds.
It was based on the "there has to be a mafia vet" assumption and forumite flipping green (=neither red nor black) pretty much destroyed that, or at least it now has an interesting twist to it:
As far as I know we don't actually know whether we've got Assassins in this game or not. If we have some it's highly likely that BM and S&B are those Assassins because hosts don't usually give 3rd party roles to new guys because they're hard to play. If that's the case we obviously don't have a mafia within those 2.
If we don't have Assassins to begin with we probably still have a mafia within those 2.
Not sure I want to take that gamble today. On September 14 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:
You're more into a vet than sloOsh is for me. But that really doesn't matter anymore. I already said the moment foru flipped green that assumption of mine got either completely smashed or too complicated to figure out because we don't know if we have assassins to begin with.
So I don't really want to talk about it as it's incredible pointless right now.
This is all I found: You say speculation on Assassins is pointless but you use the possibility of their existence to excuse BM and SnB from your scum reads. So either you believe they exist or you are justifying your actions after teh fact.
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On September 14 2012 06:23 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:22 Shady Sands wrote:Gravan's above post is anti-town defensive play at its scummy worst. In addition to my prior charges against him, now I can say he's lying as well: First off, he says I'm actively lurking. I'm not. Actively lurking would be posting heavily and having a 10 or 15 page filter without substance. I'm simply lurking. I even say it myself that my activity level is low. Second, he says I started a bandwagon on him based on Forumite's green flip. That's an oversimplification. I started the wagon on Gravan because he piled onto Forumite when the case on Forumite was all but assured, using other people's analysis as his own reasoning, in an attempt to look contributory. The fact that Forumite flipped green is just icing on the cake. Grav's trying to twist the truth here; don't fall for it. Third, the vig hit was called out because of my case on Gravan before the Day post came around. Gravan even quotes it in his post. It's a bit late for a wagon so I will say this: town, please look into vigi-shooting one of these two tonight if Forumite flips green. Vig please hit Gravan or MMToss. Again, don't fall for Grav's lies. I already called for a vig hit there with evidence, so why should I clutter up the thread and repeat what I wrote? Fourth, of course I'm going to keep the heat on Gravan: he is the scummiest read I have, so shouldn't I be trying to get my top scumread lynched? -- Now, onto his defense: Grav posts a lot about how he shares a ton of characteristics with many other people. This is a non-defense. How does sharing a bunch of scummy characteristics with other people make you less likely to be a scum? Then says that people who are voting for him specifically are voting because: I think that the only reason the vote is primarily focused on me at the moment is because the bandwagon began earlier on me than it did on anyone else (started by the mafia, I have no doubt) and it is easy to point at my D1 post about Matt, as well as my general lurkiness. Hang on a second: Grav wasn't the first wagon: the wagon on MMToss started at the same time as his did. (Another lie.) Second, the other reasons are all great reasons to vote for Grav specifically: The D1 post about Matt--soft defense of someone that was later a scum caught trying to fakeclaim. The active lurkiness--both of those reasons, if you believe them, should put Grav at the top of your list of scum reads. And to those reasons which he himself admits to, we can also add the reason of lying. Lynch Grav, the actively lurking, OMGUS-ing, lying, soft-defending, scum. I am lying because you've interpreted what "actively lurking" means differently than I have? That is a difference in semantics, not lying. You keep mentioning my "lies", and how there is this apparently strong evidence towards me being scummy, but you really are not making a case.You're just pointing the finger at me, picking apart what I say, and calling it scummy. Toad then pops in, mindlessly agrees, and continues talking on to talk about a different lynch topic. Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:27 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Toad, look at Grav and tell me how you don't see a scum. I very much think he's scum. I like my vote on Mementoss better for the moment though. If only for the reason that I no longer want to lynch Mementoss first. Does nobody else see something wrong here?
Stop playing coy. Out with it. Are you calling Toad scum?
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Guhh ... why do you guys wait until now to play properly?
What Maverick did just now was a very very town thing. Feigning activity and making cases is easy. Calling the runner up lynch candidate town when you have the most votes is not. The only motivation to do that is that you are town, and you think this person is town. You can see that he doesn't value his specific survival over the town's interests. His case really shows his thinking process and also clarifies past contradictions (e.g. he left out Graven from his scum reads) - consistency like this is hard to setup as scum.
Gravan ... it's really weird with him. As Maverick points out he is playing consistently (regardless of quality). I remember thinking he was newbie town making lots of mistakes, and it could be he is scummy because of this. Also strange is the nature of the maverick counter wagon. Still thinking this one through.
ShiaoPi: his treatment of Mav is townish. Timezones are timezones. Select stuff in his filter make me think he is town and explain his actions but will not divulge unless there is a large enough body of evidence against him.
This leaves me with two people:
SnB has not cared at all about the past two lynches. You can see from his filter that he jumps on the Forumite lynch with little to contribute while also discrediting Rewok. He jumps on the maverick lynch with little to add and also makes sure people know that everyone could be scum ("MMT made the case on Mav but you never know maybe he is scum"). His latest posts are pure setup speculation. He treats Toad very strangely - I'm not sure if he thinks Toad might be scum and hunting for reactions or he is pretending to engage in meaningful conversation.
Toad is someone who has flared up upon a proper reread of the Z-Boson mad hatter business. I originally thought him town after our little spat at the start of the game. However if you reread his filter carefully, you will notice that he uses "vet balance" to get Forumite lynched, but after that he says "oh I guess I was wrong, oh well". He seemed to taunt Z-boson near deadline and called for vig shots on him even if he was town because he would die anyway. I know I said mafia wouldn't kill a potential mad hatter but I forgot that there is a very good chance of a roleblocker in the game, as we still don't know about austin's 2nd shot. I find the explanations for his dismissal of SnB and BM to be beyond just strange, as he is ignoring possible scum on raw setup speculation.
Thoughts please, we need to get this lynch right.
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For Rewok it's looking a lot like Graven. It's his first game and he does show uncertainty at the earlier stages. My feeling is that he is overwhelmed by the unnatural amount of things in this game (flipping scum N1, getting multiple washout mislynches , people like Grush and BM getting ignored) that he has just given up and fallen back on sheeping, which is a very understandable thing for a lost townie to do.
SnB and Toad are not as easily excused as they have many games under their belt and are capable of so much more, and yet are completely apathetic and are not contributing to finding and lynching scum.
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On September 14 2012 20:12 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:06 strongandbig wrote:
We should be killing Mav today.
He hasn't made a real read all game, and now comes out with a town-case on Gravan. We still don't have any scumhunting out of him, and town cases are easy for scum to make. I think he saw the writing on the wall and this is a ploy, and we shouldn't fall for it. It's not a case where the only motive was town; it's also very smart scum play, regardless of Gravan's alignment. A push on Gravan by Mav would just be dismissed, so this is his top option. Good point. But I think we should still lynch Grav first, and Mav later. My read on Mav has slipped into scum territory after his soft defense of Gravan. I don't understand why he would try so hard to cast Grav's actions in the light of being a newbie town... then at the very end say Grav is either town or scum trying to look newbie, and he can't tell which. Soft defense at its finest.
SnB's point is awful and you have fallen into confirmation bias at this point. If you are gonna go calling all town actions as "very smart play", then you disperse doubt and mistrust between players.
I'm finding him to be much more likely to flip scum. And you also look terrible for getting so jumpy that I'm shifting my view. If I think the lynch candidates are all town of course I'm going to look elsewhere.
Need to review later when I get time but right now my lynch preference is SnB, then SS then Gravan.
##Unvote: Gravan
##Vote: Shady Sands
On September 14 2012 17:48 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 13:00 slOosh wrote:
For Rewok it's looking a lot like Graven. It's his first game and he does show uncertainty at the earlier stages. My feeling is that he is overwhelmed by the unnatural amount of things in this game (flipping scum N1, getting multiple washout mislynches , people like Grush and BM getting ignored) that he has just given up and fallen back on sheeping, which is a very understandable thing for a lost townie to do.
SnB and Toad are not as easily excused as they have many games under their belt and are capable of so much more, and yet are completely apathetic and are not contributing to finding and lynching scum. How am I getting ignored, when you even talking about Rewok to Sloosh comes from MY case on him?
Cause I think you are town? What?
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Screw this I'm making the case because people apparently can't read into singular posts and need to be spoonfed.
StrongandBig
On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew
This is his Mattchew vote. Review the context and look at how everyone else votes. They are all one liners saying "he is a liar ##Vote Mattchew". StrongandBig takes his time to really get into the nitty gritty and dwells on the point when it is totally unnecessary. There is no serious opposition to the votes - making your stance on Mattchew extremely clear is not something town would see as something necessary. This is scum bussing a teammate mentality - get as much credit by being as clear as possible.
There are many posts in his filter that are mere speculation and wishy washy - nothing that shows scumhunting:
On September 05 2012 00:41 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 04 2012 12:04 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 12:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum. Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here. You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game. devils advocate answers: vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot blue trying to look vanilla No mafia will shoot a nosy neighbor and any vig who does is stupid, blue trying to look vanilla would claim vanilla. You don't claim miller. Miller is a mafia claim to explain why they do shit at night. Pre claiming is to add "legitimacy to it" Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 11:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 04 2012 11:46 BlackMamba24 wrote:
1. Burden of proof is on you to prove mattchew is lying
2. whether or not it makes sense as a fakeclaim does not indicate his alignment whatsoever. your case is that you know 100% he is lying, ok and on what grounds can you support that? you haven't shown any so far
bad bc You can prove I am lying with 1 action. As you have yet to do so (hey its even in the OP to find out how to prove me wrong). You are right, his fakeclaim doesn't prove he is mafia on its own. However, HIM ASKING FOR CLAIMS DOES. Why would a townie fakeclaim and attempt to get all blues to claim ? No townie day 1 should ever be this fuckign stupid. Even if he gets caught as mafia (as I have caught him) had anyone or if anyone proceeds to claim and a bunch of retard blues out themselves mafia is instantly ahead. Use your head DrH. You know how I play and know even as Mafia I don't spout complete bullshit. If I am calling someone out like this I know I am in the right. So in the offchance I am mafia I know hes lying, and as I am town I know hes lying. There is only one way for me to know he is lying given that this is a setup mechanic. Figure out how I know and you then you will know the same thing I do and realize hes fucking lying. One last thing - I wanted to mention some things I saw in BC's filter. Reading through the thread I was pretty confounded by how assertive he was towards DrH, but it makes sense if he was told by Palmar that he couldn't let the thread know Palmar had modconfirmed that nosy neighbors aren't self-aware. The other thing is about the repeated not-reading-mattchew's-actual-post and saying he was trying to get blues to claim. I don't really know what to make of this, other than it kind of shows BC is just skimming. We can pretty safely assume that BC isn't the same alignment as Mattchew, so that means he's probably town unless Matt flips assassin; but this still seems kind of odd to me, especially since the thread wasn't extremely long at the point BC called out Mattchew. I haven't played many games with BC so I don't know whether this is a scum tell for him, or if he's just always lazy as town, but hopefully someone who has played more games with him can drop some meta for us.
Look how many times he states how uncertain he is on the issue. Then why bring it up? Why bother telling everyone in the thread "BC looks kinda weird but I'm not sure"? Read Mafia XXX - this is a scum trait, emphasizing uncertainty. Why as town would you want people to know how unsure you are? You can see he isn't trying to get a better read of BC since he doesn't post anything else on him.
Compare this to a post from his filter in Mad Men Mafia
On August 05 2012 00:37 strongandbig wrote:
that's a drastic oversimplification, biosc.
Here's why I think wbg is scum:
When he's town he explains things, doesn't gambit, and doesn't draw attention to himself for no reason with stunts. In this game, he hasn't explained himself in a satisfactory way - and the explanations he has given don't hold up whatsoever.
His reasons for outing the masons don't hold up. If he wanted mafia to have to wifom before shooting him, there was really no reason he needed to claim mason; he could have just played super townie, which he is definitely capable of doing, and then called for medic protection. His claim to be "pressuring" ve by outing him doesn't match his thread behavior, where he didn't pressure ve at all or even make him post more than once or twice. And his claim to be "deterring potential scum masons from masoning people in the future" doesn't hold up either, unless everyone agrees to out more masons in the future; in order for this tactic to work he would have to persuade everyone that outing masons is good in general and he hasn't even tried to do that.
Additionally, I would count this "instantly outing masons" thing as a gambit of the second order - and bugs has frequently said not to gambit as town. It's not in his town meta.
Next, both with the outing of the masons and with his self-voting, public insults, and flame-war with erandorr, he's drawing attention to himself in a way that isn't consistent with his town play.
Finally, there's the grush thing. Usually when town-wbg tries to lead a lynch, it's with reasons and explanation as well as the insults. This one had jack shit of that until he was pushed on it, and then when he was pushed on it the best he could come up with was more insults plus an example of one game where grush trolled.
Yeah so that's why wbg is scum. Vote for him.
Look how sure and assertive he is. He brings out clear arguments and doesn't once say "oh I'm not sure". This is also a D1 lynch involving strong personalities.
On September 09 2012 02:25 strongandbig wrote:
I don't think grush is scum. As far as I can tell the case on him from toad started off as "grush is trying harder to look/be townie than he usually does, therefore he must be scum." The alternative explanation is that maybe he's just trying harder to look/be townie? I played/obsed the recent PTP game, where grush survived until almost the end - that game, trolly as it was, was the towniest grush has ever been.
I'm still not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush.
The claim, I don't know about. It's a very easy claim for mafia to make, and we can't prove it false or true, especially since he'll be able to claim roleblocked. There's the fact that if he checked the person who was suicide bombed he should be dead, but I give zero weight to the argument that's been made by some people that his claim is too weird to be made by mafia. If the claim is fake, it's possible that he was the one who delivered the KP on BC - or one of the two if he was double stacked - and the claim is designed to be safe against trackers and real watchers.
Anyway, I don't think we should ignore the case on him just because he claimed a PR. I agree with whoever it was up above who said that if we do that, then scum can just always claim PRs and get free extra life by claiming to be roleblocked.
So I'm back to the original core of the case against him - his scummy shift in position on Mattchew before and after Palmar's post in the thread. Sure it's not 100% a sure thing, but I like that case better than the case on Grush, and so ##vote: broodkingexe
pre-edit Reading over Austin's post right above mine it looks like some decent arguments on z-boson as well - big lists, not following up on his own stuff, inconsistency, etc. Also someone to consider.
Another post where he tries to take no responsibility for his votes. Notice how many times he has to let everyone know that he isn't sure. Additionally is mentioning other people's cases to push the idea - this allows people to start mislynches but he takes no responsibility. Scum trait. He doesn't even actually read Z-Boson's filter until called out.
On September 11 2012 07:26 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 04:07 Rewok wrote:
I've been wrong every time I voted on my own instinct and right the time I followed Toade so my vote is for Forumite.
##vote: Forumite I... don't really like this logic. This implies that your own instinct is pointing at someone other than Forumite - who would that be? That said, some logic I do like is the case on Forumite. It's not just that he's been way less "pro-town" and "invested" than usual this game, although that's the biggest part of the case; but I still think there are some sketchy things in his filter - that first "don't lynch vets" post still rankles considering it came from someone who is pretty vet-ish. ##vote: Forumite
Again, we see he hops on a wagon, not offering anything new. If you notice he never mentions Rewok after the flip - why wouldn't you pursue something like that? He finds something off about the post, but just says "I don't like it". So many times in his filter "I don't like this or that" but never "this looks like scum".
On September 14 2012 01:20 strongandbig wrote:
I'm voting for maverickx.
Out of the cases so far, the one on him (redone recently by mementoss) has by far the most meat to it.
I don't have a town read on gravan like I do on grush and billmurray, so I'd be willing to consolidate on him, but the case on him just feels too "wtf where is he" without enough "also this is why he's scum."
I think compared to those two, mementoss isn't a great lynch for today since he seems to have started giving a fuck. However, that could just be him being scum and realizing that he has to start giving a fuck or die. But I think mav is the best lynch out of those today.
##vote: maverickx
Again, hopping on another person's wagon, but also letting everyone know that the person whose wagon he is joining could be scum. He is setting up mislynches. If you think he could be scum then you would question it at the time, you don't need to wait for a townie flip to start pursuing it.
On September 14 2012 14:06 strongandbig wrote:
We should be killing Mav today.
He hasn't made a real read all game, and now comes out with a town-case on Gravan. We still don't have any scumhunting out of him, and town cases are easy for scum to make. I think he saw the writing on the wall and this is a ploy, and we shouldn't fall for it. It's not a case where the only motive was town; it's also very smart scum play, regardless of Gravan's alignment. A push on Gravan by Mav would just be dismissed, so this is his top option.
I've pointed it out before and I'll do it again. First, the bold line is EXTREMELY hypocritical as seen from my case. Second, how is he so sure a push on Gravan be dismissed? He is twisting the situation to make mav look like scum no matter what. And this is the first time that he seems to care about the lynch, so I'm thinking that one of the candidates is a scum buddy (prob Gravan) that he is trying to save with a counter wagon.
The best vote for today is StrongandBig. I realize this case is coming late but that is because Mav's posts and stuff that follow were late in the day.
I will vote StrongandBig and check back nearer deadline if enough people can see it. I strongly think mav is a bad lynch at this point. Both Gravan and Shady Sands are better lynches than him.
##Unvote: Shady Sands
##Vote: StrongandBig
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On September 15 2012 03:05 Kreb wrote:
Ooooh, I like that one sloosh. Had given up on getting anything on S&B.
You are very late though....
He was always at the back of my mind but there are so many lurkers that he just got lucky and put near the back of the line. Start putting votes on him we still have 4 hours you never know.
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EPT
