EPTOn September 06 2012 06:53 grush57 wrote:
lol
Well you have my vote day 2 :D
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 06:52 Ottoxlol wrote:
No he did not. All we know he played bad and lied. Thats not a scumslip. Why are you writing in all caps? Is it because you know your argument is invalid?
On September 06 2012 06:48 grush57 wrote:
BECAUSE HE SCUM SLIPPED. HOLY SHIT. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU
On September 06 2012 06:45 Ottoxlol wrote:
I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate?
On September 06 2012 06:44 grush57 wrote:
Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum.
On September 06 2012 06:34 Toadesstern wrote:
Wtf. How is that:
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not explaining why I'm voting Matt?
Stop lying dude
On September 06 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote:
I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too.
So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters,
This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread.
On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:
@Ottox:
First:
The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long...
Second:
I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation.
And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it.
@Ottox:
First:
On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:
You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing.
You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it.
On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
[quote]
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
[quote]
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing.
You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it.
The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long...
Second:
On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner.
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner.
I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation.
And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it.
I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too.
So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters,
This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread.
Wtf. How is that:
On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:
yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia.
He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.
As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that.
As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.
His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him.
That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore.
As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.
On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:
lol.
If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol".
I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew:
- he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games
- he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time.
The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game.
Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared.
It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup.
##vote: mattchew
On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind??
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind??
lol.
If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol".
I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew:
- he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games
- he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time.
The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game.
Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared.
It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup.
##vote: mattchew
yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia.
He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.
As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that.
As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.
His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him.
That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore.
As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.
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On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:
a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter.
Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y".
If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do.
So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this.
A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night.
A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that.
A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason.
tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases.
However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example.
So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view.
The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later.
On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter.
Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y".
If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do.
So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this.
A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night.
A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that.
A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason.
tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases.
However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example.
So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view.
The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later.
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On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:
Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker.
As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:
My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?
If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too.
If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)
Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?
If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too.
If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)
Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker.
As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
not explaining why I'm voting Matt?
Stop lying dude
Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum.
I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate?
BECAUSE HE SCUM SLIPPED. HOLY SHIT. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU
No he did not. All we know he played bad and lied. Thats not a scumslip. Why are you writing in all caps? Is it because you know your argument is invalid?
lol
Well you have my vote day 2 :D
I think I wont make it till day2, not a problem, I don't want to play with a town immune to reasonable arguments but eating scum bs.
