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TL Mafia LVII - Page 19

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Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
September 04 2012 02:57 GMT
#361
or marv or VE
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
September 04 2012 02:58 GMT
#362
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:46 BlackMamba24 wrote:
1. Burden of proof is on you to prove mattchew is lying

2. whether or not it makes sense as a fakeclaim does not indicate his alignment whatsoever. your case is that you know 100% he is lying, ok and on what grounds can you support that? you haven't shown any so far

bad bc



You can prove I am lying with 1 action. As you have yet to do so (hey its even in the OP to find out how to prove me wrong).

You are right, his fakeclaim doesn't prove he is mafia on its own. However, HIM ASKING FOR CLAIMS DOES. Why would a townie fakeclaim and attempt to get all blues to claim ? No townie day 1 should ever be this fuckign stupid. Even if he gets caught as mafia (as I have caught him) had anyone or if anyone proceeds to claim and a bunch of retard blues out themselves mafia is instantly ahead.

Use your head DrH. You know how I play and know even as Mafia I don't spout complete bullshit. If I am calling someone out like this I know I am in the right. So in the offchance I am mafia I know hes lying, and as I am town I know hes lying.

There is only one way for me to know he is lying given that this is a setup mechanic. Figure out how I know and you then you will know the same thing I do and realize hes fucking lying.

woah... i asked for all other nosy neighbors to claim, not blues.

so its not buried
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
BlackMamba24
Profile Joined August 2012
United States277 Posts
September 04 2012 02:58 GMT
#363
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
September 04 2012 03:00 GMT
#364
@BlackMamba:

On September 04 2012 11:30 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:03 goodkarma wrote:
Hey all

A couple general observations for what I've just read:


-I don't follow some of the voting that's already taken place in this thread. I don't get why some of us feel the need to vote for each other this early with little to no information to back a vote up. Imho, we should be working to establish a strong, pro-town atmosphere just as much as we are to find a lynch candidate for today.

-I remember Hapa saying this once before: lynching one of the most vocal members day one is typically not the best idea. Looking back at how NMM XXIV turned out (Shady's lynch), others here should agree with me that there's at least some evidence to support this. Town loses so much more from a mislynch of a vocal town than of a semi-lurker, and, at least in my experience, you're much more likely to lynch a town than a scum when you target the most vocal day one player.

I'm not going to assume that sloosh is town at this point, but the effort he's taken to pressure others with his posts is definitely conducive towards a pro-town atmosphere. Along those lines, I feel that Z-Boson's early vote on sloosh could very well be scum motivated. I disagree that sloosh's discussion is unhelpful. Maybe scum or town could pressure people like sloosh has, but he's pushing for more information so he's not stuck making a weak case against others, as Z-Boson has with sloosh:

##FoS: Z-Boson


Can you explain why it's scum motivated? Why does scum want sloosh out of the game when all he's doing is arguing with Toadesstern and asking dumb questions



First, I'd like to specify that asking questions that get others to discuss their reads on other players, or to defend themselves for something suspicious said in their posts, is not "dumb." I in fact find it suspicious from a townie perspective to call many of the lines of questioning recently presented in this thread as "dumb," since so far most of it has produced productive discussion. From a scum perspective, though, a statement like this does make sense. Scum has the knowledge of who is and isn't scum, so to them watching people they know to be town attacking each other could look pretty "dumb."

Second, at the time I posted that sloosh was one of the most outspoken people in the game. From a scum perspective, it would make sense to remove an outspoken person day one. Especially if said person was furthering discussion by poking and prodding others with a lot of questions.


While we're at it, I'd like to ask about this:

On September 04 2012 11:34 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Anyway - ##vote BloodyC0bbler. Nosy Neigbor specifies that you will not know who you visited, not "you will not know that you are the nosy neighbor" which implies that they would at least know they are the nosy neighbor.

Nosy Neighbor makes a lot of sense as a scum fakeclaim it's probably what I would claim if I had to and thinking about SNB from Death Note mafia I have no reason to implicitly trust mattchew but the fact that you're throwing suspicion on him this early and this stupidly is completely consistent with your scum meta so bye



What's with the vote for BloodyCobbler? He's pretty much a lurker at this point, but you're voting him for non-policy reasons... This feels like a scum getting behind a safe lurker lynch vote, at least at the time you wrote it (it just came to my attention as I'm about to post this that another page of postings have taken place, and cobbler has just made another post...)... My guess is this is a pressure vote, but I would appreciate a bit more of an explanation if you could provide it.
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
September 04 2012 03:01 GMT
#365
On September 04 2012 11:57 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Roles and game specific rules



Show nested quote +
The role PMs will only include your role name. Refer to this post for information on how your role works.

Vanilla Townie

You are a regular townie, your only weapons are your voice and your vote.

Nosy Neighbour

You are a Nosy Neighbour. This means that you are basically vanilla town, except every night you will visit a random player in the game. You will not know whom you visited.


go ahead point it out


BC clearly stated that he is making an assumption based on his experience with previous games. This discussion is pointless until someone hears from a mod.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
September 04 2012 03:02 GMT
#366
On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.



Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here.

You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
September 04 2012 03:03 GMT
#367
On September 04 2012 12:01 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:57 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Roles and game specific rules



The role PMs will only include your role name. Refer to this post for information on how your role works.

Vanilla Townie

You are a regular townie, your only weapons are your voice and your vote.

Nosy Neighbour

You are a Nosy Neighbour. This means that you are basically vanilla town, except every night you will visit a random player in the game. You will not know whom you visited.


go ahead point it out


BC clearly stated that he is making an assumption based on his experience with previous games. This discussion is pointless until someone hears from a mod.



It isnt an assumption.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
September 04 2012 03:04 GMT
#368
On September 04 2012 12:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.



Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here.

You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game.

devils advocate answers:

vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot

blue trying to look vanilla
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
September 04 2012 03:04 GMT
#369
EBWOP:

Never mind about posting more on your thoughts on why you voted bloodycobbler. Your motivations are pretty clear with your latest post+ Show Spoiler +
(at 11:58, in case you snipe me again... -_-)
.
BlackMamba24
Profile Joined August 2012
United States277 Posts
September 04 2012 03:05 GMT
#370
On September 04 2012 12:00 goodkarma wrote:
@BlackMamba:

Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:30 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:03 goodkarma wrote:
Hey all

A couple general observations for what I've just read:


-I don't follow some of the voting that's already taken place in this thread. I don't get why some of us feel the need to vote for each other this early with little to no information to back a vote up. Imho, we should be working to establish a strong, pro-town atmosphere just as much as we are to find a lynch candidate for today.

-I remember Hapa saying this once before: lynching one of the most vocal members day one is typically not the best idea. Looking back at how NMM XXIV turned out (Shady's lynch), others here should agree with me that there's at least some evidence to support this. Town loses so much more from a mislynch of a vocal town than of a semi-lurker, and, at least in my experience, you're much more likely to lynch a town than a scum when you target the most vocal day one player.

I'm not going to assume that sloosh is town at this point, but the effort he's taken to pressure others with his posts is definitely conducive towards a pro-town atmosphere. Along those lines, I feel that Z-Boson's early vote on sloosh could very well be scum motivated. I disagree that sloosh's discussion is unhelpful. Maybe scum or town could pressure people like sloosh has, but he's pushing for more information so he's not stuck making a weak case against others, as Z-Boson has with sloosh:

##FoS: Z-Boson


Can you explain why it's scum motivated? Why does scum want sloosh out of the game when all he's doing is arguing with Toadesstern and asking dumb questions



First, I'd like to specify that asking questions that get others to discuss their reads on other players, or to defend themselves for something suspicious said in their posts, is not "dumb." I in fact find it suspicious from a townie perspective to call many of the lines of questioning recently presented in this thread as "dumb," since so far most of it has produced productive discussion. From a scum perspective, though, a statement like this does make sense. Scum has the knowledge of who is and isn't scum, so to them watching people they know to be town attacking each other could look pretty "dumb."

Second, at the time I posted that sloosh was one of the most outspoken people in the game. From a scum perspective, it would make sense to remove an outspoken person day one. Especially if said person was furthering discussion by poking and prodding others with a lot of questions.


While we're at it, I'd like to ask about this:

Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:34 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Anyway - ##vote BloodyC0bbler. Nosy Neigbor specifies that you will not know who you visited, not "you will not know that you are the nosy neighbor" which implies that they would at least know they are the nosy neighbor.

Nosy Neighbor makes a lot of sense as a scum fakeclaim it's probably what I would claim if I had to and thinking about SNB from Death Note mafia I have no reason to implicitly trust mattchew but the fact that you're throwing suspicion on him this early and this stupidly is completely consistent with your scum meta so bye



What's with the vote for BloodyCobbler? He's pretty much a lurker at this point, but you're voting him for non-policy reasons... This feels like a scum getting behind a safe lurker lynch vote, at least at the time you wrote it (it just came to my attention as I'm about to post this that another page of postings have taken place, and cobbler has just made another post...)... My guess is this is a pressure vote, but I would appreciate a bit more of an explanation if you could provide it.


because BC is full of shit and also making up stuff mattchew never said

i'll never policy vote, i hate even reading the words next to each other

i respectfully disagree about sloosh and how productive he has been but i'm not going to argue about it. i won't say anything about my read on him or toadesstern right now.

hope that satisfies you
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
September 04 2012 03:05 GMT
#371
On September 04 2012 12:04 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 12:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.



Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here.

You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game.

devils advocate answers:

vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot

blue trying to look vanilla



No mafia will shoot a nosy neighbor and any vig who does is stupid, blue trying to look vanilla would claim vanilla. You don't claim miller. Miller is a mafia claim to explain why they do shit at night. Pre claiming is to add "legitimacy to it"
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
September 04 2012 03:06 GMT
#372

(...)
What's with the vote for BloodyCobbler? He's pretty much a lurker at this point, but you're voting him for non-policy reasons... This feels like a scum getting behind a safe lurker lynch vote, at least at the time you wrote it (it just came to my attention as I'm about to post this that another page of postings have taken place, and cobbler has just made another post...)... My guess is this is a pressure vote, but I would appreciate a bit more of an explanation if you could provide it.


Wait what? He's a one-liner semi-lurker who answers in riddles and you are ok with that and is defensive on him? Tell us why you think that not answering the godamn question straight-up of why he is so sure of the whole miller deal is pro-town?
BlackMamba24
Profile Joined August 2012
United States277 Posts
September 04 2012 03:06 GMT
#373
On September 04 2012 12:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.



Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here.

You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game.


here we go

prove he's lying or shut up and get lynched

if it's so obvious why have you gone this long without providing any evidence or any information from the setup at all that proves he is lying 100% as you claim

why is it that no one believes you if it's that obvious. we must just all be "stupid" right. stop pretending to be frustrated, if we're dumb explain it to us and play to win.
BlackMamba24
Profile Joined August 2012
United States277 Posts
September 04 2012 03:07 GMT
#374
On September 04 2012 12:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 12:04 Mattchew wrote:
On September 04 2012 12:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.



Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here.

You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game.

devils advocate answers:

vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot

blue trying to look vanilla



No mafia will shoot a nosy neighbor and any vig who does is stupid, blue trying to look vanilla would claim vanilla. You don't claim miller. Miller is a mafia claim to explain why they do shit at night. Pre claiming is to add "legitimacy to it"

i agree with this i'm surprised you didn't point out why this was the good mafia claim instead of making stuff up about how he's trying to draw out blue claims

can you prove he's lying now or are you done making a fool of yourself
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
September 04 2012 03:09 GMT
#375
On September 04 2012 12:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 12:04 Mattchew wrote:
On September 04 2012 12:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.



Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here.

You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game.

devils advocate answers:

vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot

blue trying to look vanilla



No mafia will shoot a nosy neighbor and any vig who does is stupid, blue trying to look vanilla would claim vanilla. You don't claim miller. Miller is a mafia claim to explain why they do shit at night. Pre claiming is to add "legitimacy to it"

vigs have 2 shots this game.. im just saying
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
September 04 2012 03:12 GMT
#376
uhm, BC do you got any real proof that matt is lying? Seems like no to me, so besides pointless discussing of "HE LIES!" "NO,HE LIES!" it does not do anything right now. we should just note that you are wary of his claim (as anyone should be anyway) and carry on?
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
BroodKingEXE
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States829 Posts
September 04 2012 03:13 GMT
#377
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out?
Playing Protoss = Opponent owned
BroodKingEXE
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States829 Posts
September 04 2012 03:13 GMT
#378
EBWOP: As in a W/T claims their role.
Playing Protoss = Opponent owned
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
September 04 2012 03:16 GMT
#379
On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out?

lol
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
September 04 2012 03:17 GMT
#380
On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out?


no...that kind of defeats the purpose
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
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