|
On August 18 2012 10:28 Solarsail wrote:
The Archrun death completely validates gk's post. I was already wavering on Thrawn yesterday early on and Ochrow's most recent post (before GK even said anything)
I'm less convinced on YourHarry since there is no direct link and I had a soft town read from yesterday, but there's two good candidates right there.
Lol Thrawn your vigilante claim is ridiculous. Vigilantes do not reveal that they are vigilantes over such a trivial matter as defending themselves, as the role is so powerful that scum have no choice but to kill you immediately.
##Vote: Thrawn
##FoS: Ochrow
Why would I have a reason to not reveal myself as Vig? After using my 1 bullet my role is worthless and I have nothing to gain from hiding it. Therefore claiming to defend myself is not ridiculous, because I have no reason to keep it a secret anymore.
|
On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum.
Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town?
Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante.
Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum.
@thrawn:
Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason  .
##Vote: thrawn2112
And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again:
##FoS: Ochrow
##FoS: YourHarry
I'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum.
|
On August 18 2012 10:31 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:28 Solarsail wrote:
The Archrun death completely validates gk's post. I was already wavering on Thrawn yesterday early on and Ochrow's most recent post (before GK even said anything)
I'm less convinced on YourHarry since there is no direct link and I had a soft town read from yesterday, but there's two good candidates right there.
Lol Thrawn your vigilante claim is ridiculous. Vigilantes do not reveal that they are vigilantes over such a trivial matter as defending themselves, as the role is so powerful that scum have no choice but to kill you immediately.
##Vote: Thrawn
##FoS: Ochrow Why would I have a reason to not reveal myself as Vig? After using my 1 bullet my role is worthless and I have nothing to gain from hiding it. Therefore claiming to defend myself is not ridiculous, because I have no reason to keep it a secret anymore.
Sorry, I thought it was always multiple bullets, didn't check OP. But we also have to believe your claim it was conveniently 1 bullet.
|
On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum.
Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum.
Did you read all of my post? You didn't mention anything about the arguments I made concerning mkfuba.
|
On August 18 2012 09:27 Golbat wrote:
I still maintain my case on thrawn. He and shady are my two biggest scum reads at the moment. I'll have to re read GK's case on oochrow, and then OO's filter and then see how I feel about that. But I feel pretty safe right now in voting for Thrawn.
##Vote Thrawn
also, ##FoS YourHarry
His play has been the flippiest and the floppiest. That usually means intentionally sowing confusion in the thread, as people have to follow his logic back and forth to make any sense of what he says.
Shit, I totally meant harry. I don't even know why I typed shady.
|
On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
Lets look at the events that have happened during D1/N1
Shady was lynched and flipped town
Archrun was killed and flipped town
Mkfuba was killed and flipped town
Goodkarma and Darthpunk both claim to have very strong reads on me as scum. Their reasoning is that I was pushing for shady and archun to be lynched, and both of them flipped town.
Mkfuba wrote a very long post on why he had a town read on me:
Which is completely irrelevant.
On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum?
No, I did not see a scum agenda behind mkfuba's post but I did see one behind yours. He questioned Your Harry, you put a FoS on YH and then IN YOUR VERY NEXT POS found him town (a read you have defended to the death ever since) with no explanation or arguement. Tried to confirm him as town against the prevailing consensus at the time.
You both have since spent a large amount of effort trying to confrim one another as town, when no person in their right mind could have a strong enough town read on either of you to do that.
There are a whole hosts of reasons I find you scummier, despite the way in which you are trying to divert/misrepresent my case on you.
On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were.
So aside from the WIFOM, your entire defense is that you are claiming VIG? Do you have any evidence or are just you scum desperate to get yourself out of a whole?
On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town?
WIFOM, ally of scum. You cannot argue the case against you, so now you are resorting to WIFOM. Honestly how stupid do you think I am?
|
@thrawn:
On August 18 2012 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum.
Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum. Did you read all of my post? You didn't mention anything about the arguments I made concerning mkfuba.
I sure did. Don't think you're the first scum to strategically coordinate NK'ing someone to make yourself look less suspicious.:
On August 18 2012 06:13 Ochrow wrote:
At the moment I'm going to stick with my earlier suspicions and say that unless something very suspicious happens we should vote Archrun. But at the same time Thrawn's sheeping makes me suspicious of him, though I still have more of a townie read on him. So I think right now we are going to have to focus a lot on who the kills are tonight.
Feels like a great post to set up your defense post the next day. There was almost enough votes to lynch you yesterday, so mkfuba was definitely a good strategic NK for scum to make for the reasons you've highlighted in your defense.
|
Darthpunk:
Right before I claimed vig I read the "General Guide to Mafia." This is what I read:
"Claiming that you shot player X as a vig after the fact is usually a good claim if you have no shots left, especially if you hit a red, as you bring new information to the table that the mafia cannot punish."
The guide takes a pretty strong stance against role claiming, with the exception of Vigilante.
You say that my argument concerning mkfuba is wifom. However I think it provides a very strong reason why I wouldn't kill mkfuba as scum thrawn. He was the MOST convinced that I was town, and wrote a very long argument as to why he believed so. He had the strongest town read on me, and was killed. I cannot conceive of any possible mafia plot that would involve killing a town player who gave the best case as to why a scum player is town.
|
On August 18 2012 10:28 YourHarry wrote:EDBWOP: I just read your post. I believe you. I also read your bread-crumb post. Initially thought you were investigator due to this post: Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 14:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
I could not understand why shady was pushing so hard to have me lynched. I had given him sufficient arguments to back down on his claims, and I didn't feel like he was paying attention to any of my responses. My being lynched would benefit the scum team, and so the longer he continued to press his case against me the more and more I thought he was scum. Archrun was another player who moved to lynch me for reasons I didn't think were genuine so I also thought he could be scum. My vote for shady was based on shady being the most vocal, and in my eyes, stubborn about me being scum. The current debate is over whether I or Archrun are scum. Before the vote Archrun said that if shady is town, then I should be lynched. Yourharry is saying that if Archrun is scum, then I am town. My efforts are going to be focused on going through Archrun's filter, and I will post about it if I find something worth bringing up.
I don't think that town should focus 100% on Archrun and I. After I go through Archrun's filter I will also read through the filters of the people most outspoken in the debate over shady/thrawn and I think everyone else should do the same. I realize I haven't posted much of substance, but I thought it was worth saying that Archrun and I shouldn't be the only people investigated.
Expect my next post to contain my read on Archrun, and possibly reads on some other players who were outspoken in the shady/thrawn debate. I knew you were blue role either way. It makes sense though, you asking the detective to not investigate Archrun because you were going to target him anyway.
Of course YOUwould be the one to see this weak as shit breadcrumb. If it is even a breadcrumb. Of course YOU would Immediately accept him to be vig without any discussion whatsoever.
|
I'm going to take a break from reading this thread. I'm not going to become a lurker, I just need several hours of time off. I was awake and posting for pretty much all of the 2nd half of day 2 and I stayed up for more than 24 hours to do so. I've only slept a few hours since then and I'm becoming frustrated. I'm going to go try to get some sleep and not think about this game for awhile.
|
On August 18 2012 10:49 thrawn2112 wrote:
Darthpunk:
Right before I claimed vig I read the "General Guide to Mafia." This is what I read:
"Claiming that you shot player X as a vig after the fact is usually a good claim if you have no shots left, especially if you hit a red, as you bring new information to the table that the mafia cannot punish."
The guide takes a pretty strong stance against role claiming, with the exception of Vigilante.
You say that my argument concerning mkfuba is wifom. However I think it provides a very strong reason why I wouldn't kill mkfuba as scum thrawn. He was the MOST convinced that I was town, and wrote a very long argument as to why he believed so. He had the strongest town read on me, and was killed. I cannot conceive of any possible mafia plot that would involve killing a town player who gave the best case as to why a scum player is town.
That argument is WIFOM and is therefore useless regardless of what you want us to believe.
|
One last post
On August 18 2012 10:52 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:28 YourHarry wrote:EDBWOP: I just read your post. I believe you. I also read your bread-crumb post. Initially thought you were investigator due to this post: On August 17 2012 14:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
I could not understand why shady was pushing so hard to have me lynched. I had given him sufficient arguments to back down on his claims, and I didn't feel like he was paying attention to any of my responses. My being lynched would benefit the scum team, and so the longer he continued to press his case against me the more and more I thought he was scum. Archrun was another player who moved to lynch me for reasons I didn't think were genuine so I also thought he could be scum. My vote for shady was based on shady being the most vocal, and in my eyes, stubborn about me being scum. The current debate is over whether I or Archrun are scum. Before the vote Archrun said that if shady is town, then I should be lynched. Yourharry is saying that if Archrun is scum, then I am town. My efforts are going to be focused on going through Archrun's filter, and I will post about it if I find something worth bringing up.
I don't think that town should focus 100% on Archrun and I. After I go through Archrun's filter I will also read through the filters of the people most outspoken in the debate over shady/thrawn and I think everyone else should do the same. I realize I haven't posted much of substance, but I thought it was worth saying that Archrun and I shouldn't be the only people investigated.
Expect my next post to contain my read on Archrun, and possibly reads on some other players who were outspoken in the shady/thrawn debate. I knew you were blue role either way. It makes sense though, you asking the detective to not investigate Archrun because you were going to target him anyway. Of course YOUwould be the one to see this weak as shit breadcrumb. If it is even a breadcrumb. Of course YOU would Immediately accept him to be vig without any discussion whatsoever.
You're right, it wasn't a breadcrumb.
|
On August 18 2012 10:49 thrawn2112 wrote:
You say that my argument concerning mkfuba is wifom. However I think it provides a very strong reason why I wouldn't kill mkfuba as scum thrawn. He was the MOST convinced that I was town, and wrote a very long argument as to why he believed so. He had the strongest town read on me, and was killed. I cannot conceive of any possible mafia plot that would involve killing a town player who gave the best case as to why a scum player is town.
But this indeed is WIFOM. The explanation you gave - as to why you wouldn't target mkfuba as scum - is the basis for "mafia plot that would involve killing a town player who gave the best case as to why a scum player is town". Because if people generally accepted what you are saying is true - that mkfuba's NK would mean town thrawn - this is the exactly the reason why scum thrawn may think about targeting mkfuba.
Re-evaluating...
|
And I honestly thought that that was a breadcrumb. I was initially wrong - in thinking that you are the detective - and that you were going to investigate Archrun or something. Later, when you claimed vigilante though it did make sense to me that you were hinting the detective to check someone other than Archrun because you were going to vig kill Archrun anyway - and detective checking Archrun would go to a waste since we are going to see Archrun alignment anyway.
One one hand, I think Thrawn is town for targeting Archrun. Because if Thrawn is scum, he would have known that Archrun is town - thus Archrun flipping town would make Thrawn suspicious. This target would make sense if Thrawn is town because after witnessing people cast suspicions on him, he wanted to confirm himself as town by making the vig kill on scum Archrun.
But on the other hand, I can see scum Thrawn making the fake "bread crumb" warning the detective not to investigate Archrun - then making himself look town by targeting Orchrun anyway. It would be a convincing story after all, as Thrawn can argue what I just argued above and say "if I was scum, why would I have targeted Orchrun to make myself suspicious".
And it does make sense to leave the subtle breadcrumb post as scum, because as scum, Thrawn must first had to confirm if there is an additional night kill. Because if there is no SK, there only would have been one night kill and Thrawn could not have pulled off his fake role as a vigilante. Only by seeing that there are two night kills, Thrawn could then come out and fit the pieces together - citing his night post as evidence that he wanted the detective to check out someone other than Archrun. (As an aside, this means that SK targeted mkfuba. I think the strategy for SK is to try to go after scummy. Which means the SK is not likely to be one of the people who had strong town read on mkfuba. Anyway, I digress.)
One part of the "bread crumb post" - which he denies is the breadcrumb post - that I think makes Thrawn suspicious is that he asks detective not to check Thrawn. It makes sense from vigilante Thrawn's point of view to have the detective check on someone other than Archrun, but why would vigilante Thrawn discourage the detective to check Thrawn? Maybe it can be argued that vigilante Thrawn thought that he could prove his innocence by saying that he targeted Archrun. But in general, I am inclined to believe that townies want the detective to investigate him unless he was a MILLER or something. Such investigation may not be most efficient, but generally the townies have the desire to be confirmed townie. So the fact that Thrawn discouraged the detective to check him makes me suspicious of Thrawn.
And, to be honest, my strong town read on Thrawn was mostly based on my certainty that Archrun was scum. I was pretty sure that his motivation was to lynch both townies in Thrawn and Shady. But obviously I was wrong, and maybe Archrun was right after all. I am leaning toward Thrawn scum.
|
But, unless there is a counter claim on vigilante, why do we wait and see how many night kills there are tomorrow?
If Thrawn is scum, then there must be SK. So there should be two kills tomorrow, which would mean that Thrawn is scum., because if Thrawn was vigilante, there is no SK based on last night's actions and there can only be 1 kill tomorrow. And there is no reason for SK to not send in the kill, because if there is SK, he must already know that Thrawn is scum because there were only 2 kills last night- rather than 3. And SK's primary target is always scum, so he would want to send in the kill so that towns can lynch Thrawn.
One flaw in this strategy is that, Tharwn's scum team may already know that there is SK (due to 2 night kills last night and no vigilante counter claiming). This means that scum team may give up their night killing power, to make it look like there is no SK - which would imply that Thrawn is town. But this cannot be the long term strategy because scum team can never send in a kill for rest of the game - otherwise Thrawn will be autolynched. This would be way to favorable for SK, and scum would rather choose to lose one scum in Thrawn than hand the game over to SK.
So this is what I propose. We lynch someone else and see how many people night kills there are tomorrow to determine Thrawn's alignment.
|
EDBWOP: But, unless there is a counter claim on vigilante, why don't we wait and see how many night kills there are tomorrow?
|
On August 18 2012 12:26 YourHarry wrote:
EDBWOP: But, unless there is a counter claim on vigilante, why don't we wait and see how many night kills there are tomorrow?
I don't think anyone will agree to this.
The people that are calling me scum are also calling you scum and will say that you being scum, are presenting this plan with which you intend to manipulate the results (by not using a mafia kill) to convince everyone that I'm not your scum buddy.
Even if people agree to this I'm not sure how I'd feel about the basis for me being assumed a town player to be based on what could be a setup created by people who are calling you scum.
wifom everywhere..... this thread is a big giant wifom circlejerk at the moment. people including myself are basing cases on wifom arguments. people are using wifom arguments to accuse other people of making wifom arguments.... and in the meantime 3 town players have died. on reflection I think we should have taken the lurker policy seriously.
|
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now.
|
Is it possible that there are 2 vigilantes?
|
On August 18 2012 14:01 thrawn2112 wrote:
Is it possible that there are 2 vigilantes?
Yes. Roles aren't necessarily limited to only 1 of each, nor is every role guaranteed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
