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On August 17 2012 05:20 YourHarry wrote:
I have to leave. I am already late, but at this point, I don't see any clear scum. I would much rather lynch a lurker. I think the best lurker lynch candidate is Golbat. Stutters and Jyhut don't have many posts, but at least they are here sometimes.
On August 17 2012 05:21 YourHarry wrote:
Having a lurker around that always has a potential to be mod-killed is dangerous. If golbat does not show up before deadline, I move to switch our votes to him.
I disagree. You're right, having a lurker who is a potential mod-kill is dangerous, but not to the town. We have 0 control on if he is here or not. So if he does not show up and ends up getting mod-killed he's gone and we just lose one extra mislynch. If we lynch him, we're essentially trading a possible scumhit for a guaranteed mislynch and next to 0 information that the flip gives heading into d2. This feels more like you're trying to deny information than set up a good policy.
If you really wanted to do a policy lynch you should have suggested it on Jhuyt or myself (obviously I would disagree with this, but from a YourHarry town standpoint it makes significantly more sense). We still get info due to actual interactions and accusations between the lurkers and other players while still enforcing the "post or you're dead" policy.
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at friends house right now, about to leave. will be home in time to post reads and vote.
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Ok, just found out that I may not be able to check in before voting is done, and I still feel strongly towards an Archrun lynch so I am going to reestablish my ##Vote: Archrun. Originally I was hoping to wait a while come back and see if any more people commented on the issue, and I will do so if at all possible, but at the moment this does not appear to be the case so I am going to stick with this vote.
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On August 17 2012 04:52 Stutters695 wrote:My current vote is going to Archrun. I am suspicious of Thrawn but reading Mkfuba and GK's posts about him I'd like to see a little more out of him before coming to a conclusion on him. ##Vote ArchrunHere's why I think Archrun is our best lynch (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=155910 - Full Filter for easy reference): Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:10 Archrun wrote:On August 15 2012 09:42 Shady Sands wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Thoughts on XXIII] +I'm still really mad at Hapa for essentially winning on luck in XXIII. Had GK actually spoken up in the game, Hapa wouldn't have had the GK lynch to work off of and we scum could have safely NK'd him without worrying about a medic save. Howdy town. Let's kick some scum ass. A few policy notes: - Lynch all lurkers. That's how town caught scum in XXIII. But don't overly rely on this, scum can fake D1 activity pretty well.
- Observe, observe, and observe. If someone acts strangely, lynch them. This includes checking everyone's metas from previous games.
- All players here--please list all the games you have played previously, as well as which roles you played, along with filters for your posts. Here are my links:
My XXIII Filter, where I was scum
My XXII Filter, where I was Mason with Keirathi
- If someone isn't forthcoming with information ("I have a read but I'm not going to share it because of blah") lynch them.
- If someone isn't actively pushing new cases with their posts, press them on it.
- Stop OMGUS wars. They're not productive. If two people are OMGUSing each other, tell them to stop, don't just sit there and let them keep yelling at each other. The only ones who win off mass OMGUSing are scum.
That's all for now, good luck everyone. This is my first time playing, but I did read XXIII in preparation for this game and the policy seemed effective, because even if the scum is being active everyone has a a good sample of posts to analyze and hopefully make more accurate reads. As a Townee, I promote any policy that helps us catch scum, but we must back accusation up with evidence(which this policy should provided) and reason. So far he has a total of six posts in this game. I don't find that particularly suspicious but what I do find suspicious is that he looks active throughout without actually looking for scum.In his first post he says the policy from XXIII and that as a VT he promotes "any policy that helps us catch scum." Although you can't expect scumhunting this early, I wanted to point out his noncommittal attitude. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:20 Archrun wrote:On August 15 2012 10:11 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 15 2012 09:59 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. Why are you so worried about the SK? SK is a bigger threat to scum than to town. I am not really worried, but am trying to learn from other people's experiences if there is any reason to worry. I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Therefore I'm not going to continue posting about it until something happens along the lines of way too many unexplained town deaths. To follow that point up, I feel like the scum threat is a lot stronger than SK because they are organized and know who to attack. A SK in my eyes is like a scum with only one person in it that can attack other scums independently. So if any exist in this game they shouldn't become an issue until later in the game. Now he has two more posts for that day. The first one is agreeing with both Shady and thrawn's statements that a SK is a non-issue at this point for the town. This has already been agreed upon and he didn't contribute anything new with his post except that a team of 3 is more dangerous than a 1 man team. His only other post before disappearing for 24 hours is soft defending Thrawn from Shady. Fast forward 26 hours and we get to the point that really stood out to me and caused me to look into him more closely. First his case on Solar and Jhuyt: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 13:58 Archrun wrote:Sorry for being lurky, not intend just became last minute busy. As far as reads go I am going through the thread at will give my thoughts on the case against YH, thrawn, and GK as soon as I can, but right now I want to make a ##FoS: Jhuyt and SolarCase: Jhuyt puts: On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there. then Solar puts: Secondly, the continued defence of me by Thrawn has no basis. I was clearly being anti-town. Some evidence:
"I am still of the opinion that solar's posts are somewhat likely to be emotional overreactions rather than scummy."
"Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar?"
"Most of the discussion right now is about solarsail. I don't think there's anything wrong with this because so far his posts haven't seemed very useful but we have still yet to hear from several players. He could easily be town and just reacting to everyone immediately jumping on his case as soon as the game starts."
"Suspicion of a soft accusation is hardly good evidence that he should be lynched especially when there has been so little discussion so far so I am not sold on your case against him."
There is little reason to defend me so much unless your motivation is to defend someone he knows to be town player for deflection reasons.
May main concern is two-fold: 1) Jhuyt claims Solar is just an emotional by his previous TL post history, which later Solar claims to be a deliberate act. Futhermore, skimming through Solar TL post history it doesn't seem that emotionally based. In fact, it is closer to his current professionalism. I believe Jhuyt defense of him is a blatant lie. 2) Solar questions why Thrawn is defending him, but not Jhuyt. Other people defend Solar has a bad townies, and to shape up his posting, while Jhuyt explained Solar behavior (falsely) as that is the type of person solar is. This leads me wonder why would Solar question Thrawn's motives and not Jhuyt? This plays out four ways: If Jhuyt is townie and Solar is townie then Solar should of suspected his motives like he did with thrawn or both of them are mason and there is no need to question each others motives. I believe them being Masons is possible. If Jhuyt is townie and Solar is scum then why would jhuyt lie about Solar's posting? Futhermore, why wouldn't Solar call Jhuyt out like he did with Thrawn? The only why I can see is to put focus on one person. This seems dishonest. nor does it allievate Jhuyt roll. under those ground I reject this possibility. If Jhuyt is scum and Solar is scum then either a bus play could happen(which didn't) or they could protect each other. They could directly protect each other by offering counter arguments against both of them, (which only Jhuyt did in that one line lie) or indirectly by not bringing attention to each other(which would be a play that Solar made. I believe them both being scum is possible. Finally, if Jhuyt is scum and Solar is townie then by lying Jhuyt post (which occured before Solar) puts focus on Shady and potentially has some a townie on his side. Solar likewise either became a townie by his side(doubtful, because he didn't defend him against Shady's accusation) or Solar would of question his motive like he did with thrawn. I reject this possibility as stated above. This leads me to believe Jhuyt and Solar are Scum or Masons. Thoughts? Concerns? Did I miss something? I don't think Solar missed Jhuyt post because he was corresponding with Shady the entire page and part way through there correspondences Shady replied to Jhuyt. I want to emphasis I haven't look at the evidence agaisnt Thrawn thoroughly so I have no argument on him as scum or town at the moment. This appears to be his largest contribution to the thread. He has a premise and uses some facts to back it up. Most of the post is WIFOM and doesn't really contribute anything. The part I want to emphasize is the first part of his two-fold concern. "May main concern is two-fold: 1) Jhuyt claims Solar is just an emotional by his previous TL post history, which later Solar claims to be a deliberate act. Futhermore, skimming through Solar TL post history it doesn't seem that emotionally based. In fact, it is closer to his current professionalism. I believe Jhuyt defense of him is a blatant lie.2) Solar questions why Thrawn is defending him, but not Jhuyt. Other people defend Solar has a bad townies, and to shape up his posting, while Jhuyt explained Solar behavior (falsely) as that is the type of person solar is." Now fast forward six hours to his next post: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 19:32 Archrun wrote:Alright after looking into Solar claim about a history with him and Jhuyt I can believe that Jhuyt was under the impression Solar could be emotionally. Therefore, one of my premise is incorrect and I must remove my claim towards them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I look into evidence about Thrawn and there was 3 main points against him: He was fluff, motive concerns by Solar and Z-Boson questioning of him. I came to the conclusion that he has shown some dodgy behavior. The beginning of the thread there was a lot of posts claiming Thrawn to being very fluffy, but the beginning was very chaotic and Thrawn was the only one. His posted definitely, picked up later. When Solar questioned Thrawn motive for defending his anti-town behavior Thrawn claims he changed Thrawn from Scummy to town who doesn't know the tone of the game. Just to confirm what I'm thinking, do we all trust solarsail's account of his first few posts, that he was trolling to get responses? I'm assuming we all do? Myself, I believe him. I don't think a player who posts like he initially posted would be able to post how he is posting now unless they were trolling. Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be. Honestly solar you were posting like you had just come in from a sc2 tournament thread, it was very hard to know what to make of that. IMO you actually caused more harm than if you would have allowed the discussion to remain on policy talk. The first few pages of posting were very chaotic and full of people making baseless accusations set by the tone of how you chose to play the game. Yes, I do think that myself and maybe some other people are able to make reads off the situation you created, but I think that those reads could have come regardless of your trolling. No where does he explain what prompted him to change his opinion from scummy to bad townie. Z-Boson questioned Thrawn about why did he choose me and not other lurkers and an accusation that Thrawn dodged Golbat. Thrawn has not explained himself to Golbat's concern yet. Thrawn rebuttal was mine had the most merit. Thrawn proceed to explain why I was a good candidate, but not why the other lurkers where not as good candidates. For those reason I am currently at ##Vote Thrawn2112--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ochrow was the first to claim against me and soon afterwards Thrawn join in. Therefore, I believe Z-Boson question on why should I be the focus over other lurkers stand towards him. Also, why focus on lurker lynching instead of scum hunting? did you not have a read on anyone as scum? Now this could just be my earlier suspicions talking as there is no real concrete evidence behind this, but it does seem that this was rather deflective, and if you did have suspicions as scum that those two were masons it would benefit you to try and get them lynched. I do encourage you however to prove me wrong, because as I said before I am not sure about this, its really more a feeling than anything. As it currently stands I am most suspicious of Arch for his lurking earlier, and the fact that as soon as he was called out on it his first reaction was an ooooh look this guy is scum post. And even with that post I felt that he was off the mark so until Arch or somebody else points out some reason or evidence that makes him look like a townie I don't feel like it was deflective because I brought up something that seemed wrong until solar set it straight(which I checked out). However, most people agreed that scumhunting is more than lynch lurking and there was quite a few people that had YH pegged as scum. If that is the case won't the safer play be to remain silent if I am scum? Also your example of it being beneficial for me to be to discover if they are masons assuming I am scum is unfair, because if I am scum then they would be either my partner which I am busing out of the blue or they are townies. If I am scum then I would want to make them look like scum, but in my argument I did not give a support to them being scum. But if I am a townie they discovering they are scum was be useful cause we would know who to lynch or if I was a townie knowing they are Masons would remove 2 people off a possible list of suspects leaving every townie that is not them 10 people to look at instead of 12. At the very start of this post he immediately refutes his previous case by saying "Alright after looking into Solar claim about a history with him and Jhuyt I can believe that Jhuyt was under the impression Solar could be emotionally." At this point from the start of the game until this post he has spent over 30 hours without contributing anything while appearing very active. Now moving forward to his case on Thrawn, the meat of it is in that Thrawn doesn't "explain what prompted him to change his opinion from scummy to bad townie." However if you read the quote regarding it in Archrun's post it is explaining exactly why. Show nested quote +Just to confirm what I'm thinking, do we all trust solarsail's account of his first few posts, that he was trolling to get responses? I'm assuming we all do? Myself, I believe him. The rest of his case is just sheeping off of Solar and Z-Boson's claims against Thrawn. His very last post is a bunch of quotes that I honestly have a hard time following but again he sheeps off of another player's accusations. Tl;dr - Read the post and see why Archrun has been hiding his lack of contribution while appearing active.
So my first Question is why do you think my Case about Jhuyt and Solar was WiFoM? Is it because I narrow down a one conclusion? I felt my case was relevant because determining if people are on a team together could help discovered their agenda in the same way that contribution helps. However, I admit my premise was flaw and that case no longer holds water.
My as far as my lack of scum hunting goes I there is three things I would to point out. First, I believe accusing Solar or Jhuyt as scum while ignoring the possibly as Mason is an unfair and baseless. Second, I claim Thrawn a scum because I did not feel like he answer the questions. The claim of parroting Solar and Z-Boson. My parroting of Z-Boson was a few points he brought up but at the time was not answer. The Thrawn as answer the question of why me over other lurkers with: Gobalt had accused me of being scummy, and had expressed belief in solar's innocence during the troll posts
Jhyut made the comment about his outside experience with solar and he softly accused yh of being scummy
Ochrow said he thought solar was town and that shady had read too much into solar's posts
Stutters did not think that shady was right. Stuters didnt think that solar's post was intended as a soft accusaton of stutter's post
My questioning of Thrawn about the Solar had to do when Thrawn decide that Solar was a bad townie rather than a scum before Solar admitted to deliberate trolling. The line you quote is what is the consensus of Solar not being scum after solar claims he was deliberately trolling. Reference: Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be.
As far as my hard to follow but parroting post as you call it. The first section was in rebuttal to Thrawn saying his FoS on me was indepent from Ochrow. I quoted him quote ochrow FoS against me and at the think he did not post this thoughts on other lurkers. My second section was when Thrawn ask what did golbat post against him Archrun, what did Gobalt ever say to me?
Then Thrawn proceeds to say Are you talking about his post 6 hours after the game started, when only a few people had posted so far, where he says I am the scummiest because of my SK comment? If you think that post was scum thrawn trying to distract from scumhunting, then you need to read it again:
Looking over Thrawn response again it says: Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
the post in question: On August 15 2012 15:25 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 15:18 Golbat wrote:
So far, I think that the scummiest person i've seen is thrawn. He's not really said much of substance, which is of course understandable being so early in the game, but his fixation on making sure people know there could be an SK in the game is a little bit strange.
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
Z-Boson says you dodge the question and I agreed. So yes I admit to agreeing with someone else point. I am going to keep my vote on Thrawn but I am going to look at the posts against Shady, so this my change.
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A lot of your post was VERY difficult to follow. Not because of logic... I had to re-read sentences a few times because I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say. This has nothing to do with my read on you.... lol I'm honestly just having a hard time following your post.
I want to know what you think about shady. Whatever you have to say about him will greatly influence my read on you. As of now I am getting scummy reads from both of you.
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blah mes that posted up sorry. give me a sec to type it up. Haha my bad.
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On Shady:
The first big complaint against Shady was his aggressive behavior. Has point out by several people this could be a scum move or it could be a townie move, but this behavior warrants suspicion. I believe that the aggressive posting Shady exhibits is bad. But should but I don't think it is inherently enough to claim he is scum.
The second big complaint is arguments are stretches. Looking over the thread several of his arguments where on weak grounds and this is bad for the the town. One of those argument was a connection between Thrawn and Ochrow. Currently, I the only thing I believe that supports this is when Thrawn quoted Ochrow on FoSing me. The other claims about suspicion between the two I find shaky at best. I use this example because it is more recent, where other stretch claims where early in the game. This is scummy behavior, but could be a by product of his aggressiveness.
The third big complaint against Shady is how he tunneled on Thrawn and told everyone to just vote to lynch him. His justification at the time to lynch Thrawn were reasonable. Telling everyone to just vote Thrawn left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but I see this as something similar to when Hapa in XXIII told everyone to vote switch to Goodkarma. He also did have several things written on Thrawn so I don't see this as scummy.
Currently, I think that shady is either scummy or anti-town, but I think that his scumness is on the low scale.
on Thrawn:
I think one that is was weird is how he went after lurkers after agreeing with GK it is better to focus on scum(which at the time was YH) than it is to lynch lurkers. Makes me feel suspicious, but it could just be a way to promote lurkers from posting. Further more I find it suspicious about his OMGUS play against Shady.
Currently, I feel that if Shady is lynched and is town then we should lynch Thrawn, Likewise, if Thrawn is lynch then we should lynch Shady. If one of them is scum then the other is town. I doubt any busing is occurring because if they were on a team they could of just focus me rather than fight among each other. With that I am going to keep my vote but if Thrawn flips townie Shady is becomes my number one suspect.
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On August 17 2012 02:58 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 01:58 Solarsail wrote:
Sorry I missed DP's new post.
That is very strong. I would like to see Thrawn defend that.
Now that DP's argument is there in full with evidence, the line "mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not?" is really, really out of place. The last post mkfuba made before I posted that quote, was this: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 02:14 mkfuba07 wrote:
So I've just quickly read through what I missed while asleep. I have a few appointments to get to, so this will be my only post until later this evening.
My read on Shady right now is slight townie. He was the driving force behind most of the first day so far, and has been sticking his neck out the entire time. I get null reads from the cases he presented, because though I disagree with the evidence for them, they promoted discussion when there was very little to discuss. He gets a townie point because of this discussion promotion and activity.
I waited to post my reads on YourHarry because I wanted to avoid an OMGUS reaction, but most of my feelings on him had been posted by GK. I really wanted to see his reasoning for dropping the votes on Solar. Since he's posted that now, I'm a strange point in my read on him. In response to his vague comments I started to believe that he had just read his role PM (since he delayed reading them in both D1s of XXIII) and realized that Solar was his Mason partner. That seems like a legitimate reason to hint at it without outright saying it, though it will make everyone suspicious of him. What I find most suspicious is YH's willingness to believe in a Solar/GK mason team with so little evidence of it. The post he quoted from GK "defending" Solar was a mirror of my views on Solar - that he's playing in a way that will distract us from true scumhunting for the rest of D1. I don't think GK's phrasing implied greater knowledge than he should have had as a vanilla townie, as I came to the same conclusion. As a result, I see YH's strong townie read on Solar as YH behaving as if he has more information than he should. Since he isn't mason, that only leaves scum.
FoS YourHarry
Solar's posts have me leaning towards a townie read for him. Pointing out how thrawn's defense of him may be considered scummy seems like a very town thing to do. He's not taking someone's defense of him as evidence of townie-ness, but being suspicious of his motives. I'm not sure I agree with his method of building discussion (in reference to his earliest, trolly play), since his first few posts could cast him in a suspicious light for the rest of the game. But if it was his plan to do so to build discussion in the first place, then he knew the risks and took them for the team. Mkfuba puts a FoS on YH, with his reasoning being that YH was acting as if he had more information than anyone else concerning his read on solar and gk. I then posted: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
Policy?
A few people started talking about policy at the beginning and we never actually came to an agreement on that because of solar's trolling. Can we say whether or not we are going to FOS lurkers? Of course this doesnt not mean an automatic lynching, but it will help to keep everyone posting so that we can all get better reads. My vote is that yes, this policy should be put in effect, even though we have almost wasted the opportunity to do so.
Concerning the YH topic:
3 possibilities immediately come to mind:
One, that YH is being honest about him thinking that solar and gk are masons. That will explain basically all of his scummy sounding posting earlier in the game. Two, that he and solar are masons. This would explain his strong conviction that solar is town, and could also explain why he posted like he had information to hide. Three, YH and solar, or maybe just YH is scum. This would also account for the cryptic way he was posting. The only part that I'm having trouble with, is that 4 minutes after voting for me for being suspicious of shady, he unvoted me and changed his vote to solar. 21 minutes later is when according to him, he came up with his 'solar as mason' theory and unvoted again. So if YH is scum and solar is scum, why would YH ever vote for solar in the first place? It could be a sneaky manipulation but i doubt that is the case. This makes me believe that no, YH and solar cannot BOTH be scum. YH's quick changing of votes is what I'm currently looking at to see if I can make any reads as far as YH is concerned.
At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum.
Solarsail
Just to confirm what I'm thinking, do we all trust solarsail's account of his first few posts, that he was trolling to get responses? I'm assuming we all do? Myself, I believe him. I don't think a player who posts like he initially posted would be able to post how he is posting now unless they were trolling. Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be. Honestly solar you were posting like you had just come in from a sc2 tournament thread, it was very hard to know what to make of that. IMO you actually caused more harm than if you would have allowed the discussion to remain on policy talk. The first few pages of posting were very chaotic and full of people making baseless accusations set by the tone of how you chose to play the game. Yes, I do think that myself and maybe some other people are able to make reads off the situation you created, but I think that those reads could have come regardless of your trolling.
mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not? My first paragraph under the YH topic is a little difficult for me to understand right now. I'll admit that I was in no way giving a clear picture of my train of thought. As I posted the night before I made my posts about YH, I was not sober that night. If you are curious about this then go check what other threads I post in as it might cause you to believe that I was likely to be telling the truth about not being sober. Despite not being sober I did lurk in the thread for 3 or 4 hours before sobering up after a quick nap. I take notes whenever I read a new post, and my scattered train of thought after my nap was probably brought on by taking notes in a scattered frame of mind before the nap. The 2nd paragraph contained the majority of my thought process concerning YH. Some people thought YH was scum because he was posting as if he had additional information, but I saw a different perspective. YH said he acted the way he did because he made a self-admittedly weak read into gk's post. I then said that I was previously nursing a weak read that he and solar were either masons or scum. I had at that point abandoned my weak read, which caused me to be trusting of YH's claim that he also made a weak read about potential mason status of solar. I had made the same mistake as YH claimed to make, which is why I was inclined to believe YH. However, me making a weak read does not confirm that YH was telling the truth in admitting to making a weak read. I was willing to accept that YH was town, but since mkfuba had recently expression sucpicion of YH I wanted to know if my argument was sufficient to convince mkfuba, and if it wasn't then I would obviously want to know the reason why. I guess the lessons to be learned are to give reasoning behind my posts, and uh .... don't read the mafia forum if I'm not sober.
So your defense to my entire case against you was that you were drunk? Not good enough. The justification that you provide for backflipping so swiftly from a FOS on YH to promoting him as town in your very next post seems weak.
Because you have also had a feeling that two players were masoned, YH is not only cleared, but a dead set townie? You have said that you asked mkfuba07 if he had come around to your point of view to gain insight on his position. But he had JUST POSTED a case on YH in which his position was quite clear.
You then change your mind and say that you wanted to ask mkfuba07 because you wish to know if your arguements were sufficient to convince him.
Why are you so concerned with convincing a third party who had just cast suspicion onto Your Harry that he was innocent? This is incredibly suspicious
You had not at that time, and still have not, presented reasons or arguements on how you suddenly changed your view on YH so much that you actively tried to persuade others to view YH as green
The only reason or arguement to explain this incredibly suspicious behaviour is that you were drunk, don't really follow your own reasoning and the only real justification you have provided is that you were slightly inclined to believe Your Harry thought GK and Solar were masoned.
This is the basis for your Switch from FOS to persuading others to view YH as town; and in that context talking about confirming townies does nothing to alleviate the suspicions raised in my case against you. That you speak about being drunk and brush off not providing reasoning with your switch like it is nothing furthers my suspicion towards you.
On Shady Sands
His case against Thrawn2112 was average at best. I don't think it was Suspicious enough to lynch him off though. And I certainly fail to see the scum game he is playing if he is scum. Why would a scum take on as much risk as Shady has to secure a day 1 mislynch? He has an incredible amount of exposure depending on flips. And will not likely last all that long if he is scum and his posting continues as it has been.
He is still one of the people that I am suspicious of but I DO NOT feel as that he is a good day one lynch.
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On August 17 2012 06:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
A lot of your post was VERY difficult to follow. Not because of logic... I had to re-read sentences a few times because I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say. This has nothing to do with my read on you.... lol I'm honestly just having a hard time following your post.
I am having a similar problem with your posts 
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Sorry about that. I do proofread, but I think I get caught up in my thinking process so much that I can lose focus on my writing. I am and will be trying to work on this problem.
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Vote count:
ShadySands (5): thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry
thrawn2112 (3): ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Stutters695. Ochrow
Not yet voted: Golbat
ShadySands currently set to be lynched. Just over 1 hour until the deadline!
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On August 17 2012 07:36 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 06:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
A lot of your post was VERY difficult to follow. Not because of logic... I had to re-read sentences a few times because I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say. This has nothing to do with my read on you.... lol I'm honestly just having a hard time following your post.
I am having a similar problem with your posts
yeah... I haven't needed to use punctuation for a long time
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## Vote Thrawn
Reasoning to follow
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I am really uncomfortable with how fast a counter wagon on the most active player in the game sprung up. I urge everyone to read MY CASE on thrawn.
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On August 17 2012 07:26 Archrun wrote:
Currently, I feel that if Shady is lynched and is town then we should lynch Thrawn, Likewise, if Thrawn is lynch then we should lynch Shady. If one of them is scum then the other is town. I doubt any busing is occurring because if they were on a team they could of just focus me rather than fight among each other. With that I am going to keep my vote but if Thrawn flips townie Shady is becomes my number one suspect.
Honestly I did not have time to read everything, but this seems alarmingly scummy to me. I had an experience in one of my earlier games where scum was basically trying to benefit from mislynch.
##Unvote
##Vote Archrun
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Archrun didn't mention the possibility that they are both town and just got trapped fighting each other.
Golbat your explanation better follow very, very quickly.
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So. We are currently headed towards a no lynch.
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On August 17 2012 08:00 YourHarry wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 07:26 Archrun wrote:
Currently, I feel that if Shady is lynched and is town then we should lynch Thrawn, Likewise, if Thrawn is lynch then we should lynch Shady. If one of them is scum then the other is town. I doubt any busing is occurring because if they were on a team they could of just focus me rather than fight among each other. With that I am going to keep my vote but if Thrawn flips townie Shady is becomes my number one suspect. Honestly I did not have time to read everything, but this seems alarmingly scummy to me. I had an experience in one of my earlier games where scum was basically trying to benefit from mislynch. ##Unvote##Vote Archrun
If one player comes up town, that never makes another player scum 100%. Unless you have some inside info, you just pulled this thought out of your ass. Either way, Archrun is on my radar now because townies should never be thinking like that. My vote stands on thrawn, but Archrun is gonna have some 'splaining to do.
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EPT
