EPTI will not be banned in the first game Bluelightz is hosting
Dwarf Fortress Mini Mafia
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I will not be banned in the first game Bluelightz is hosting | ||
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Soapmakers, soapmakers everywhere. Oooooh, we have a prplhz in here! | ||
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What´s the point of watcher and tracker? DT is easy, check someone you think is scum. Watcher and Tracker just seem like weaker versions of a DT, with many false positive results. Are there any advantages? Do Scum decide on their own who among them carries out the nightkill? | ||
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On August 08 2012 00:39 sciberbia wrote: Hello everyone! Top of the morning to ya :D First thing's first: I can truthfully report that I have rolled Dwarf, so I'll try my utmost to root out this nasty Goblin infiltration, protect our fortress's stock of booze, and avenge our fallen leaders: Qatol and UristMcUrist! As per usual, I hope to convince you all of my righteous alignment by way of some successful scumhunting. Let's hammer us some goblins! Hear this man! Our first order of business is to dam the river so it dries up, to avenge the murder of Urist McUrist! Then we must desecrate the rotting corpse of Incognito, the murderer of Qatol! Then what? | ||
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On August 08 2012 00:55 ShiaoPi wrote: EBWOP: Just saw I got ninja'ed: What makes you think so? Watcher/Tracker are probably weaker than DT. Speculating on them being in the possible setups does not get us far though imo. Maybe for balance purposes but as marv points out the watcher at least has 2 things to watch. Tracker, if checking someone with a nightpower and the target doesn´t die or claim being roleblocked, then the person he tracked must be the doctor. I don´t know if there´s any advantage to that though. Perhaps he can clear himself by successfully identifying the doctor in a LYLO-situation. I´d prefer not to discuss my read yet though, I hope you understand. | ||
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On August 08 2012 01:12 ShiaoPi wrote: Well, I understand if you understand me not taking it serious at all then. That´s okay, you are more likely to scumslip if you don´t think there´s any danger. On Double-lynching: I´m opposed to double-lynching because of the danger of gobbos manipulating the vote, either to save their buddy or to kill two town at once. I´m also opposed to it because of the ease of blending in when the discussion is about a package of 2 people dying, when there are two candidates players can just say "Meh, I don´t really want to lynch B but since it´s the only way to get you all to agree on lynching A, I guess we´ll lynch both together". I will not agree to double-lynching unless there´s a VERY good reason to double-lynch. I will vote to hammer anyone who creates a double-lynch without the second candidate flipping gobbo. | ||
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On August 08 2012 04:28 HiroPro wrote: Eh I'd only ever consider double lynching in sciberbia's 3/1 scenario (or a 2/1 if it ever comes up). Anywhere else I don't see the benefit. Thoughts on using Tracker as an innocent child style role instead (if we have one)? It's fairly worthless in this setup since it can only track medic/RB and mafia will know whether or not a tracker is present. You mean claim, and if counterclaimed (by scum or the real tracker) we kill them both? I don´t think it´s a good plan. A Tracker is not as good as a DT, but he´s not useless. An innocent child will just get killed if he claims D1. The Tracker can track the one doing the nightkill and the roleblocker, and know if his target is a Doc (no roleblock claim and survives), so basically a DT that misses the one scum that does nothing. Can scum send the roleblocker to perform the nightkill AND roleblock even when there are other goblins alive, thereby reducing the number of people at risk of being Tracked? (Only usefull in a Tracker+Doc setup, but still) | ||
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On August 08 2012 05:38 prplhz wrote: Hey didn't read thread yet can anybody tell me who is scum? Yay, prplhz! ShiaoPi looks like scum, just read the few introposts. | ||
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On August 08 2012 06:15 HiroPro wrote: How do you know the Tracker doesn´t track scum nightkills? Tracker doesn't track night kills. And if it's a setup with a tracker, there's a good chance scum would hold their RBs. On August 08 2012 06:08 marvellosity wrote: Okay. It´s based on the first post, quoted below: don't be insidious, explain why you find them scummy or shut up about it. On August 08 2012 00:08 ShiaoPi wrote: Well well, let's get started! Skip policytalking, we all know lurkers suck, you should not lie etc. etc. LiquidTomb's fallen demand justice, so let's go hammer some goblins. When I read that I see someone who is rushing a greeting to show that he´s here, doesn´t say anything on his own views and wants to shut down policydiscussion. It´s the very first post of the game, and he wants us to NOT talk about the only thing there is to talk about. | ||
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I agree with marvellosity, not tracking nightkills make the Tracker and Watcher too weak. | ||
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On August 08 2012 06:43 prplhz wrote: Too weak? Callign ShiaoPi out for nothing and now you are actually complaining about the setup, in a game that already started. What exactly are you trying to do? Would you accept "Create discussion"? My assumptions on Tracker and Watcher was that they can track/watch for the nightkill. That would still give them false positive results from the Doctor, but leave 2 scum who they can find, not as many as the DT but decent. If they can´t see the nightkill being delivered then the roles are much weaker, so it came as a bit of a shock. On ShiaoPi, I wanted to see if my scumsenses were working after my break with a quick read. No, I´m not convinced he´s scum. | ||
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Maybe claim if we have the Tracker, but not D1. Maybe D2 or D3. @sciberbia Fair enough, we´ve talked too much about the innocent child and need to scumhunt. Any tips on where to start? Also, did you write your first post with all the policy in advance? | ||
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HiroPro called me out too. I agree that my case was bad and that it makes me look bad, but I object to one thing; I´m always falsely confident of my bad reads. On prplhz Right now I´m in danger of falling into the OMGUS-trap, because the only thing I´ve gotten from him is the greeting and him calling me out. prplhz calling me out makes me think there´s something wrong with MY play, which makes prplhz a nulltell. | ||
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On August 08 2012 10:43 sciberbia wrote: @forumite Can you more fully explain your initial read on shiaopi, your current read on shiaopi, and why your read has changed? That last post makes it look like you have completely thrown out your initial suspicions on shiaopi. Is this solely because people such as prplhz have disagreed with you? Initial read: On August 08 2012 06:37 Forumite wrote: Basically I thought I saw some kind of anti-town motivation here. I´ve gotten good reads from initial posts in other games, so I thought I had found something here. When I read that I see someone who is rushing a greeting to show that he´s here, doesn´t say anything on his own views and wants to shut down policydiscussion. It´s the very first post of the game, and he wants us to NOT talk about the only thing there is to talk about. Current read: Nullread. I´ve thrown out my initial scumread, it was probably just the one odd post, especially as ShiaoPi showed that he was willing to discuss the setup just a few posts after the initial incriminating post. I changed my mind because I knew I wasn´t getting anywhere. I didn´t have much to start with, and I got conflicting reads the first time I reexamined the case. That HiroPro, marvel and prplhz spoke up against me making accusations and/or against the actual case mattered a lot too, because I doubted my read if none of the other "veterans" agreed, and because I didn´t want to distract the thread more than I had allready done. That´s about it, I´m back to square one on ShiaoPi. | ||
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On August 08 2012 16:35 slOosh wrote: I think it went like; Read sciberbia's case and it's pretty good - there are some clear inconsistencies in Forumite's play, and he does seem to be "taking the temperature" of the thread according to player sentiments. I'd disagree with some of your interpretations of said players' intentions but it doesn't change the fact of Forumite's reactionary play. It could possibly be a result of lowered confidence in play due to a period of inactivity, so I'll be waiting to see how he responds to it. "Hey guys, ShiaoPi looks scum to me! Let´s pressure him!" "Nah, I don´t see it, let´s not pressure him." "Oh, okay, nevermind then." Continuing without revealing what I initially felt was scummy would have derailed the thread, and once I did reveal my "case" and reexamined it, it felt silly, weak and premature to me too. Even my first post accusing ShiaoPi of being scum was premature, it would have been better to take that initial read as a sign to watch ShiaoPi more closely, but at the time I wanted to create some pressure. | ||
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On August 08 2012 06:08 marvellosity wrote: don't be insidious, explain why you find them scummy or shut up about it. Marvel, could you explain this? I had an early scumread and said so a few times, definetly not spamming the thread about it. I also said I preferred to keep the reason to myself for the moment. What was wrong about that? Why did you want me to either reveal evidence early D1 or stop with light pressure on a random townie? | ||
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On August 08 2012 20:47 marvellosity wrote: Because calling someone scum without reasoning or recourse to defend themselves isn't productive, and it isn't "pressure" - there's no pressure, because it's meaningless. I left you to it the first couple of times you did it, but when you start pointing others to your 'read' (prplhz), still without explanation, then it should be called out. I asked one player, prplhz, because I wanted a confirmation if he saw the same thing I saw. What's wrong with saying "I think X looks bad", and wait with clarifying why? I'll do it eventually, of course, but why right Now? | ||
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On August 08 2012 21:06 ShiaoPi wrote: I like your case on mord, he posts lots of fluff and no substance. I'll have to take a closer look when I get to my computer. any of you care to comment on my case on mord? On August 08 2012 21:25 marvellosity wrote: did you read? I didn't say 'right now'. I only pressed you on it when you kept repeating the accusation without anything else to back it up. Again, it's not pressure if it's not done in a style that can elicit any sort of response other than "lol ok". Shiao: yes I will, and hopefully a couple of others when I grab an hour this afternoon. I know it wasn't a very effective pressure, I had allready admitted that, but I must have had a reason for still going on. You called me out as if you wanted confirmation if I had something, so that you could deal with it now. I didn't see any harm in my action, so there was no reason for you to stop me on behalf of a random townie, that's what feels wrong to me. | ||
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On August 08 2012 22:06 marvellosity wrote: Okay, you have me convinced. There was nothing nefarious about you telling me to stop calling people scum without explanation. I disagree, casting pointless suspicion about is worth putting a stop to. If it feels wrong to you, tough titties. For your viewing pleasure, a quote of mine from movie mafia: | ||
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Big posts but very few, talking about me, possible VT-claim and policy, with a lot of fluff. Overall lots of text but next to no content, which looks bad. His post about "funnily enough" asking CL feels off somehow. Mordanis needs to shape up, or at least post more. I'm anxiosly awaiting the time when CL gets back. | ||
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On August 09 2012 00:37 HiroPro wrote: I was ninja'd, I only read his first post before replying. Yes, his later posts did make me undure about my initial read, but I didn't want to retreat immediately. mm, you're misunderstanding me. I wasn't agreeing with the case - there's no contradiction there (setup and policy aren't the same thing). What I was more interested in was that two of Forumite's main points were that ShiaoPi wasn't sharing his own thoughts and was trying to "shut down discussion". However, right after Forumite made his inital accusation, Shiao was willing to discuss the setup, which doesn't really fit with his points. I wanted to know whether that changed his read. @scrib Is there anything specific you want answered by me? I hear people saying that I haven't responded to your case, but I thought I had done that allready, although while replying to others. @CL Any other suspicions other than mord? With how the game looks right now, I want to lynch prplhz or mord. Prplhz doesn't play anything like I'm used to seing him play (as town), and mord is lurking too much for his few big but empty posts. | ||
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You still fill your posts with fluff. It makes you look bad and makes it harder to understand what you mean. I don't want you to defend yourself about this, it's done, but if your scumhunting looks like the last post then I'm going to vote to have you lynched. | ||
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On August 09 2012 04:45 Keirathi wrote: Not that I disagree with you that his posts have fluff, but take a look at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315&user=137393 This is just his posting style. He always used a lot of words to get his point across in that game. I don't necessarily condone the practice, because his posts were generally hard to read, but to blindly condemn him for it is just as bad. All it takes is a little research to see that this isn't some new scheme he's using to try to pull the rug over our eyes. I don't care, he must be able to make it clear to us what his reads are. It could just as well be him posting in hexadecimal code, or with posts of exactly two sentences that always rhyme. Too much fluff makes it hard to understand what he means, that's not transparency. Note: risk.nuke is lurking | ||
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On August 09 2012 05:23 sciberbia wrote: I asked you if you had any pressing questions for me about your case on me, but I assume you don´t. @Forumite I know you asked me a question, but I don't have time to address it right now. On August 09 2012 05:30 marvellosity wrote: Are you talking about how I didn´t follow up my initial accusation of scum with real pressure? I accused him of being scum based in the first post. Since then I realised that my initial my read was unsure and my case weak. Once I had called ShiaoPi scum on weak grounds it was a lose-lose situation. I could drop it and look wishy-washy, or keep it up and look like I was secretive with important information. I opted for the second one, because then at least scum would have to keep guessing, and I might keep a bit of pressure on them. That´s why I didn´t like that you asked me to reveal or shut up, and why I questioned you about it earlier today. It made me (that post was a big part of the reason I dropped the "case") abandon my plan and show that I really had nothing on ShiaoPi. you ask him to make his scumreads clear yet with ShiaoPi you yourself were nowhere near In all seriousness, can you answer the point raised by scib/me about voting to pressure VS more likely to scumslip not under pressure? On August 09 2012 05:38 Mordanis wrote: Quite clear, at least that part. Are you confident enough in your read to put down your vote too? @ Forumite, I hope this is clear enough for you: ##FoS ShiaoPi | ||
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On August 09 2012 06:19 prplhz wrote: Hey guys Forumite is the scummiest in the thread right now. There was only one right answer to my question about what his ShiaoPi accusations were about and that was "I was just trying to create discussion", but instead Forumite actually says that he was testing if his scumsenses were working after a break. This makes absolutely no sense because Forumite did not throw any sort of accusation together. This seems like scum making something up under light pressure and it just collapses under him, he is trying to make it seem like what he did was absolutely townie and only townie instead of just telling the truth, only scum are that afraid of appearing slightly non-townie that they make up an excuse like that. I don't like most of the votes on me, it seems like they're just picking an easy target in a lurkish person which is silly (at least so early on in the day). ##Vote Forumite prplhz, you are back! You are correct, the only good answer is "create discussion", and I knew that allready, but that wasn´t what happened. I thought I was on to something, I was wrong, and that mistake has been one of the most important topics of D1. I did create discussion in the end, but it wasn´t my intention. My intention was to find scum and pressure him, but it backfired, tough but true. | ||
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On August 09 2012 06:42 sciberbia wrote: 1) I thought it was a good idea to call him out, to pressure him for a bit. @Forumite I don't think that is what marv was asking about. Can you explain why you didn't simply explain your (supposedly legitimate) read on shiaopi in your first couple posts where you called him scum? Please clearly explain 1) Why you thought it was a good idea to announce your read 2) Why you thought it was a good idea to not explain your read 2) I thought leaving him to wonder what he had done wrong for a while was better, that might also give me a few more posts to build a case on, making it stronger once finally revealed. I didn´t see a need to reveal everything right away, so I didn´t. On August 09 2012 06:46 prplhz wrote: I´m still waiting for your contribution, and your answer to my latest post. Yes I will contribute more, no I will not give you any reason other than the very generic "I'm busy" (because I don't think that it's fair when people bring things into mafia that don't belong in mafia). | ||
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On August 09 2012 07:53 prplhz wrote: Yeah, this isn´t the prplhz I´m used to. I can take the fact that you think I´m scum, but I can´t understant why you are not reading what I write and are deliberately misunderstand things. Do you really think I´m trying to take town-credit for being the cause of a discussion about wether or not I´m scum? I don´t think you have any interest in this game at all, you are among the top candidates for a lynch and your defence is nonexistant. Your excuse is a lie, you were not testing out your reads. You are now trying to take credit for something which you inadvertently caused which makes no sense at all. You appear to be overly worried about what people think about you and your explanations don't make sense. This is why you are the scummiest in the thread. On August 09 2012 06:19 prplhz wrote: You are an easy target because you are scummy, and you haven´t tried to change anyones mind about you since returning, you´d rather throw some suspicion around and hope it blows over. I was ready to vote you earlier when you had posted twice in total, now you are back and I´m even more sure that you are scum. I don't like most of the votes on me, it seems like they're just picking an easy target in a lurkish person which is silly (at least so early on in the day). ##Vote prplhz | ||
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On August 09 2012 08:19 sciberbia wrote: For some reason, I find this quote extremely funny. Just thought I'd point it out. I'm really not impressed by Forumite's explanation, and as prplhz pointed out, the line about "just testing my scumsense" seems like another contradictory attempt at an explanation. Well, it wasn´t my best play. I´m not trying to polish it up afterwards, I played suboptimal and I´ve posted my reasons for why I did it. Of course you don´t like the reasons for my actions, neither do I, but I thought it was the right way to go at the time. In hindsight I should probably have made a note to include ShiaoPi's first post in any future cases on him and kept my suspicion a secret, at least until I had more evidence to build a case on. | ||
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-I've allready answered why I kept saying I thought ShaioPi was scum even when I got unsure. -I got suspicious of prplhz earlier, but didn't trust my read at first, because I thought it might have been anger at him voting for me. Then he came back and didn't change my opinion after three posts, so I went with my earlier read, that he's scum. About mord I don't think he's scum. I don't like his long posts, but he's actually my strongest townread right now. I'm not sure if I'll be around anymore before the deadline. | ||
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I'm still leaning town on him. His posts are too few and too long, and he needs to be more aggressive, but there have been a few things that outweigh that. | ||
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change your vote to me or prplhz, there's no point in voting for marv, he's not going to be lynched today. Consolidate to one of the leading lynches, otherwise you are helping scum. | ||
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GG | ||
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Funny, I had Sloosh and DYH down as townies the whole game  | ||
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