EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 2
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DarthPunk
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DarthPunk
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On July 29 2012 08:34 Golbat wrote: Hey guys, this is my one polite goodbye post. I'm really sorry that things played out the way they did. I feel like I was going good up until I backed off Mordanis so early, and that was truly a rookie mistake. I've learned a lot about how to play from my first game, and I hope to improve a lot in my next game. I'll be signing up for XXIII, so I'll see some of you there hopefully ^^. Good luck town, kill those dirty mafia bastards! <3, Golbat GG golbat. | ||
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I am going to read through the thread again with the knowledge that Golbat was town as Keirathi and others suggested and I will post some thoughts in a bit. | ||
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Golbat played quite poorly when it comes down to it. Which makes it hard to read his posts and find connections with the new knowledge of being a confirmed green. The case on him started with Mordanis and he was subsequently pressured by ange777 consistently as she also did with Shady Sands. In regards to my thoughts on the Mord/Golbat I have previously posted on this topichttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=16#308 Shady and the Golbat flip. Shady jumped on to the golbat wagon with reckless abandon and the post in which Promethelax first casts his FoS had some strong arguments. Which only seem stronger in light of golbats lynch. In terms of Golbats reads etc. He parked his vote with aryuujin in response to the tangent between himself and goodkarma. Which to me doesn't really provide much insight into anything. I am going to read through things again in the morning after some rest and with a fresh Perspective. I am super tired so hopefully things will be clearer then. | ||
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Goodkarma I have posted previously what i thought of goodkarmas policy lynch er policy. But his (her? for some reason i always want to say her) Posting has dramitically improved since he was called on it and now includes actual content and analysis. This section in particular What town really needs to have a shot at this is a very vocal populace producing a variety of different opinions and arguments based off their own observations and best reads. Pushing for a town leadership this openly and abruptly simply isn’t pro-town. seems to make a lot of sense to me and gives me town vibes from goodkarma. Ange + Mordanis. Mordanis' case on ange is ironic. Mordanis lead the case against Golbat for much of the day cycle yet switched off him and then back onto him after I questioned why (never answered to my satisfaction) Ange777 stuck with her vote the whole time. Yes she did cast suspicion onto goodkarma after going after golbat hard. This sums it up well On July 30 2012 18:36 Ange777 wrote: Once I stated my suspicions against Golbat I moved on to analyze other players' post. He was semi-lurking and not answering to my last accusations and therefore I saw no need and possibility to further pressure him as my vote was already on him. There is more than just one scum in this game so why tunnel a player so hard that you forget the others? and in the context of the situation there was quite a large side debate on lurkers and aruujin parallel to the golbat-mordanis-shady sands discussion that was happenining at the time. I still find mordanis suspiscious and i feel as if my case against him was never really answered satisfactorily and just sort of got drowned out in the noise. His posting and reasoning has improved INCREDIBLY (thanks BTW) and lots of people seem to be having small town reads on him. That being said if anyone wants to know my thoughts on him at a later date let me know. I will be watching him closely. "With the momentum solidly going towards a Golbat lynch when I revoted him" -Mordanis. I mean i don't get why this guys doesn't start alarm bells ringing for you guys like he does for me. Loud Mafia The "loud mafia are easier to spot therefore we wait to lynch them" argument/policy that people have been using seems ridiculous to me.There is absolutely no way that people should be under less scrutiny for posting more. They are more likely to slip if they post alot. But that does not mean people should also just get away with questionable posts because their filters are large and they make cases. (i.e. mordanis) Promethelax On July 30 2012 18:14 Promethelax wrote: I'm not saying I should be a town leader or a town analyst, I am saying that town is following my analysis and that I am taking things said by players whom I greatly respect and trying to forge my town play around that. If the two things that town needs are a good leader and someone with good analysis I will try to provide both. No he doesn't say that he is a town analyst he is saying he is potentially both. On July 30 2012 18:14 Promethelax wrote: I'm saying having someone who is clearly pro-town trying to create a pro-town environment is a necessity for town. Why is he trying so hard to establish himself as pro town? That combined with this: Look bud, I want to be able to trust you. You are the player in this game that I respect the most. Give me some cases to work with that I know YOU are capable of. You are good at being town, prove to me that you are town so that we can have a town circle (town line, lol) and some town beers or wahtever it is that townies do. I'm new at this not being red (or retardedly worse than everyone else) thing. Who are your biggest scum reads right now and why. Buddying Keirathi after he places him within a group of possible scum and then trying to establish himself as pro town seems quite suspicious to me. Only Mafia win the game by not dying, we win the game by finding scum. I request you spend less time attempting the former and more of your good analysis on the latter. I have Just had a WTF moment whilst reading through the thread and taking these notes. But will make a special post for that. <3 Obvious. | ||
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On July 30 2012 18:57 Obvious.660 wrote: DarthPunk also explained that he would be willing to change his vote from Mordanis to Golbat to avoid a mislynch with his post 40 minutes later. Sounds appropriate given the situation, from a town perspective. But again, we're at the two scenarios as above where we're either seeing avoiding looking bad for the mislynch, or staying around to ensure there is a lynch. OK when I read this I lol'd. This is just wrong and made me question whether he even read my filter. Let me clear things up for you. On July 29 2012 04:35 DarthPunk wrote: With that being said at the moment we are headed towards a no lynch which I am certainly not in favour of. I am willing to alter my vote to ensure this does not happen. Hopefully this gets resolved shortly as I would love to get some sleep. So after reading this post. you summarize it as this: On July 30 2012 18:57 Obvious.660 wrote: DarthPunk also explained that he would be willing to change his vote from Mordanis to Golbat to avoid a mislynch Where did I say I would vote for Golbat? I voted for my best read. I didn't want a no-lynch and as my biggest scum read was pushing the case and band-waggoning his main rival for the lynch concurrently I didn't really want to vote for either of them. You entirely misrepresented what I said and I fail to see the reason behind it. I need to read your filter very carefully. | ||
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On July 31 2012 00:39 Shady Sands wrote: Darth, I'm getting really bad vibes about Promethelax's "town circle"/"town leadership" ideas as well. No idea why he would choose to lurk D1 and then immediately start to argue for something like this so quickly. I don't think he lurked on day one. His schedule and my time-zone actually synch up fairly well. and at that time lots of people are asleep and not much happens in the thread while the US is asleep  . That being said it blows my mind how hard he seems to be trying to establish his Townieness and I don't know what possible advantage it could bring. | ||
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Night. | ||
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On July 31 2012 06:48 Promethelax wrote: Being a clear town assets helps town hugely, it removes a townie from suspicion. Look at MTG where I played like crap (that is had no idea what the fuck was happening) but Nova_Terra still called me one of the best town players that was because it was clear that I was town even though me reads until right at the end were terrible. In one of the guides (I think it is Qotal's) it says that one of the most important things a townie can do is prove their innocence and I have read a lot of postgames in which hosts say that looking townie is something town needs to work on. I kinda wish I had played worse as scum so my meta wasn't so similar but ah well, nothing I can do about that now. I actually think my meta is really different and I think it is easy to spot the differences but me pointing them out doesn't help town read me since I am aware of my meta I could have intentionally changed it. GK: Since you have explained your reasoning ##: Unvote For those that think I am scummy I would urge you to actually see the things I am putting into the thread. I have provided good cases, I am willing to change my reads as new behaviours are exhibited and new information comes to light. I am acting in a pro-town manner in this game because I am playing with a town win con. Keir: Honestly I don;t want to lead discussion. I'd love to be able to provide cases and let others lead the talking but since no one has stepped in I am trying to provide some guidance to the other nubs here. My obsessive behaviour has lead to me reading a ton of mafia games, and related qts as well as guides and host notes. The amount of information I have ingested makes me feel pretty good about my general game knowledge and I am trying to help town with that knowledge. Every single member of town should try to establish their towniness. It is awful play to fail to do that (see our D1 mislynch of a guy who totally failed to establish himself as town and town was punished for it). I am trying to do three things: establish myself as town, create a positive town atmosphere and build good cases on people who appear scummy to me. I would argue that 100% of my behaviour falls into line with those three goals and you would do well to realize that I am working towards a town victory and not a scum one. My posting style will change again soon since I have work for the next five days, starting tomorrow. I'll try to be more active than I was in the early game but I won't be as crazy active as I have been these past few days. I think you misunderstood what i meant with that post. I understand that a confirmed town is very large asset to have. But someone is not confirmed town in my eyes just because he starts jumping up and down telling anyone who will listen that he is. Quite the opposite infact. What I don't understand is why on day two you would try so hard to establish your self as confirmed town rather than focus on the cases and let your scum hunting do your talking for you. The fact of the matter is that as soon as anyone mentioned you as possible scum for not voting Golbat that your behaviour dramtically changed and you began to start pushing yourself as confirmed town really hard and buddied keirathi (who had recently mentioned you in a list with others as possible scum.) really hard. On July 31 2012 06:48 Promethelax wrote: I am trying to do three things: establish myself as town, create a positive town atmosphere and build good cases on people who appear scummy to me. I would argue that 100% of my behaviour falls into linewith those three goals and you would do well to realize that I am working towards a town victory and not a scum one. Yeha, day two 100% of your behaviour falls into those catagories.(with a disproportionate amount of establishing your self as town) but this is a RADICAL departure from your day one posting which i actually thought was good as you were making solid cases for the most part. However the more you make noise about how you are town and how it would be best for the town if you were confirmed town (implied) the more suspicous you are to me. I was not particularly suspicous of you before this shift in focus from lynching scum and making cases, to: promethelax is town it would be good for town if i were considered confirmed town. Immediately after being brought, however slightly, into suspicion. On July 31 2012 06:48 Promethelax wrote: My posting style will change again soon since I have work for the next five days, starting tomorrow. I'll try to be more active than I was in the early game but I won't be as crazy active as I have been these past few days. What is this? This is an excuse and a reason to explain the dramatic shift of focus in your posting between day one and day two. It could also be used as an explanation if your posting changes again in the future. The problem is that having time/not having time does not explain the dramatic shift of focus and style, all it does is potentially explain a drop or increase in activity. On July 31 2012 06:48 Promethelax wrote: I am acting in a pro-town manner in this game because I am playing with a town win con. OK. Great. In what way does this contribute whatsoever. All it contributes is an attempt to manipulate the reads others make on you. On July 31 2012 06:48 Promethelax wrote: Being a clear town assets helps town hugely, it removes a townie from suspicion. Being a clear town assets helps me hugely, it removes me from suspicion. FoS Promethelax | ||
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Regardless if they are scum or town MrMedic and Ayruujin to a lesser extent are hurting the game with inactivity. This is the entire contribution of MrMedic on day 2 0_o | ||
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What was that said about burnout? That playing loud mafia is hard, and that he will either scumslip or dramatically lower his contribution if he was scum? Right. | ||
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On July 31 2012 14:35 DarthPunk wrote: Where is mordanis? he goes from making huge waves on the first day. Leads the case on Golbat, jumps on Shady Sands lots of posting etc. It is now 9 hours till deadline on day 2. He has made a case on ange777 with his singular post and has since disappeared. This is quite a contrast to his case on golbat in which there is a large loud and consistent follow up What was that said about burnout? That playing loud mafia is hard, and that he will either scumslip or dramatically lower his contribution if he was scum? Right. | ||
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On July 31 2012 17:14 Mordanis wrote: Just for clarity, is there definitely 3 scum or is the number ambiguous? Same for other roles, i.e. could there be multiple vigis or medics etc.? This has been answered previously http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++ we are loosely based on this setup. so multiple blue roles and no confirmed number of reds or blues. | ||
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On July 31 2012 17:17 Obvious.660 wrote: See one of my more recent posts for my thoughts on alan133 and DarthPunk. Might be best to also make him aware of how you used a complete misrepresentation of what I actually posted to come to your conclusion. The fact that after I corrected you, you are still willing to refer people to that post without any clarification on how misleading/wrong it was is astounding. | ||
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I am going to the movies to see the new batman movie, i'll return in a few hours. | ||
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On July 31 2012 18:09 Obvious.660 wrote: Just so it's in my filter again, Darth. I am admitting to typing the wrong word at 5:57AM my time. Again. You seem to think this was intentional. I'm sorry. It's not the typo. It is the fact that you assumed I would vote for Golbat and then stated it as a fact. I completely understand that you can make a typo. But the conclusions you drew from an incorrect assumption just make no sense without that assumption. This still would be fine if you didn't then direct people to your post without stating that as the assumptions that preceded you argument were invalid the conclusions you drew from it were, if not invalid, far less meaningful. | ||
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On July 31 2012 18:13 Ange777 wrote: What are you referring to? I am referring to this On July 31 2012 00:43 DarthPunk wrote: OK when I read this I lol'd. This is just wrong and made me question whether he even read my filter. Let me clear things up for you. So after reading this post. you summarize it as this: Where did I say I would vote for Golbat? I voted for my best read. I didn't want a no-lynch and as my biggest scum read was pushing the case and band-waggoning his main rival for the lynch concurrently I didn't really want to vote for either of them. You entirely misrepresented what I said and I fail to see the reason behind it. I need to read your filter very carefully. | ||
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On July 31 2012 18:26 Obvious.660 wrote: The correction would read: 'mislynch' replaced by 'no lynch', do you still take issue with the intent here? Yes. please read above post. | ||
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On July 31 2012 18:50 Obvious.660 wrote: Let me see if I'm following you. You want me to clarify that you would have voted for anyone, not just specifically Golbat, but anyone, if it was coming close to crunch time with no clear successful lynch in sight, in order to obtain a lynch (also known as avoiding a no-lynch), no matter who it was? Is that it? If this doesn't answer it, I'm just going to have to ask someone else: Anyone who is not DarthPunk please tell me what he's talking about? You seem really worried about being associated with the Golbat case, btw. Yes. I have explained this before. You put words in my mouth in order to facilitate some 'analysis' that does not stand up without the flagrant misrepresentation of what I said. I thought that the first time I addressed I addressed this I was very clear how retarded the post in which you did that was. I thought the issue was resolved but then you directed others to the post in which you fundamentally altered my words with no mention of the previous conversation when I correct the flagrant error. Honestly I am surprised it took this long for you to understand the problem in your post and I don't see why you seem to be frustrated that I have followed this up. If someone had posted 'analysis' that was based on something you didn't say and then after correcting them on it continued to lead people to that 'analysis' I am sure you would want to make sure that people were aware of the situation. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand or took so long to resolve. | ||
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