EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 13
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:26 Keirathi wrote: @Goldbat: I responded to both of his posts regarding me with pretty strong dismissals for being a bad case. My apologies. I completely forgot about those two posts. Maybe i'm being too hasty with my accusing Mord of being scum from one bad read early in the game. It just seems really fishy that he stuck with it for so long. For the time being mord, I'm not convinced you're not scum, but i'm being convinced less and less that you are the more I think about it. So for the time being, ##unvote I just really want to win my first game, and I want to do it while playing well, which is what got me excited to get a slam-dunk mafia kill on day one. I know for a fact that i'm not scum, and that's all I really know at this point. Right now, besides Mord, I think that our best bet is to see who isn't contributing anything to the discusssion and then get rid of them. I admit that all of my reads so far could be wrong 100%. However, i don't think posting my day1 reads about all of the people is the same thing as making a town list, because I didn't even give an opinion on half of the people. I could also do without your "oh look at how good I am, you guys are bad" attitude. This is a newbie game, and calling people bad accomplishes nothing except potentially driving people away. P.S. I know I said "i'm not one to throw votes around yadda yadda yadda, but + Show Spoiler + That was me trying to be all internet tough | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
About my attitude of being an arrogant asshole: I read the remnants of your first blog completely by chance, and didn't see the subsequent posts and such. I judged you prematurely, and for that I am deeply sorry. Really, I am deeply ashamed about that, and I hope you will forgive me. I won't overcompensate, all I can say is that I'll try to be as objective as possible. Again, I offer my sincerest apologies. After that though, I still stand by my opinion that posting town reads is a bad idea. If you are correct, one townie breathes easier, but the mafia see them as a better target (those bastards really hate confirmed town :C). If you put a mafia on your town list though, they know that a bandwagon is that much more difficult, and you've taken the pressure off. | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:59 Mordanis wrote: + Show Spoiler [out of game] + About my attitude of being an arrogant asshole: I read the remnants of your first blog completely by chance, and didn't see the subsequent posts and such. I judged you prematurely, and for that I am deeply sorry. Really, I am deeply ashamed about that, and I hope you will forgive me. I won't overcompensate, all I can say is that I'll try to be as objective as possible. Again, I offer my sincerest apologies. After that though, I still stand by my opinion that posting town reads is a bad idea. If you are correct, one townie breathes easier, but the mafia see them as a better target (those bastards really hate confirmed town :C). If you put a mafia on your town list though, they know that a bandwagon is that much more difficult, and you've taken the pressure off. + Show Spoiler + I honestly expected more people to have read that stupid blog and judge me for it, and I don't really blame you. I can get really hotheaded and overconfident when I see a solution (or in this case, potential mafia), and begin trying to slam a square peg into the area between the circle hole and the triangle hole. I'm still not sure about your scum status, but at the same time, I want to explore all possibilities, and casting a vote before the halfway mark of the day is foolish anyways. If you're scum, it gives you time to shape up your posting, and if you're not, it gives scum time to run a train on you. Even while I was writing up my reads, I saw other people who could be scum just as easily as you. But now that I've been able to refocus, I really think I should give other people some space to talk, especially because half the town hasn't even really contributed, and that's never a good thing. I do want to state that whatever my read are in my previous post, they should not be taken as me being 100% certain of a person's innocence/guilt. DarthPunk and Shady could easily be scum too, but I think that before we come to conclusions, we have to look at the big picture, and that hasn't really been completely painted yet. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
Sorry for posting this late, but I was asleep when the game started. Deadline is at 11 pm for me so I should be online for it but probably going to bed shortly after deadline. I just read through the posts and the case against Mordanis and Golbat. Mordanis: Right now I dont think he is scum. Basically people are calling him scum based on two things: Illogical arguments and persistence in his case on Keir. His post about Keir claiming blue was not very convincing, but he tried to use the little posting and information we had at that time to contribute to scum hunting. The first case made won't be of the finest quality because usually there is so little to work with. The far more important thing is to get people talking about something else than policy lynches so Mordanis was more than successful. Not changing his view on Keir directly after being called out on his poor case is not suspicious in my opinion. On the contrary, as townie you aren't afraid of being held responsible because when you make cases you are convinced they are scum. It's more the scum players who try to not gain too much attention when making cases as they might be lynched for a mislynch. So right now I have a slight town read on Mordanis. Golbat: You just unvoted Mordanis. Without an explanation. And you posted a list of every single player. I hate those lists. If you are town, you just show Mafia your entire town read. If you are scum, you can easily get town cred and posts with such a list. Why post that list? Town should makes cases, not lists. Besides that you never commented on Mordanis' case against you which is far more convincing than his first one on Keir btw. I am going to reread Golbat, but for now ##FoS Golbat | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On July 27 2012 17:14 Golbat wrote: I'm still not sure about your scum status, but at the same time, I want to explore all possibilities, and casting a vote before the halfway mark of the day is foolish anyways. If you're scum, it gives you time to shape up your posting, and if you're not, it gives scum time to run a train on you. Even while I was writing up my reads, I saw other people who could be scum just as easily as you. But now that I've been able to refocus, I really think I should give other people some space to talk, especially because half the town hasn't even really contributed, and that's never a good thing. I do want to state that whatever my read are in my previous post, they should not be taken as me being 100% certain of a person's innocence/guilt. DarthPunk and Shady could easily be scum too, but I think that before we come to conclusions, we have to look at the big picture, and that hasn't really been completely painted yet. Okay, I missed that explanation earlier. BUT this is such a bad explanation in my opinion. If you are convinced he is scum you should always pressure him. Of course pressuring him early would give a scum Mordanis and his team time to think of a good defense but Mafia would have to act upon it and therefore expose themselves. The second part just feels like an excuse for backing off from Mordanis. In a previous vote you seemed pretty convinced by him being scum: On July 27 2012 13:36 Golbat wrote: I mean honestly, it's gone on long enough. ##Vote Mordanis If you're red, try to be less obvious next time. If you're green, try to be less scummy next time. I certainly hope you're not a blue. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
I'll update with thoughts once I get through the thread and some filters. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:07 Golbat wrote: Pretty sure Mord is scum. I did vote for him after all. But, there is always the chance he was just a very eager townie. The only thing about him being town that rubs me the wrong way is how emphatically he decided to stay with his line of reasoning, despite the fact that it had been slapped down by multiple people. Very suspicious. Perhaps I myself jumped the gun in voting for him, but being one to not throw around votes lightly, i'm keeping my vote on him unless there is completely overwhelming evidence that he is either not scum, or that someone else is scummier. I really like the OMGUS! vote though, <3. So what exactly is the overwhelming evidence you just found out that he isn't scum? I assume you haven't found anyone else scummier as you haven't made a case. ##Vote Golbat + Show Spoiler + Sorry for triple posting but guys where are you? :D I don't want to talk to myself ^^ | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
First of all welcome to all you new players, its great to have you. Now on to the substance: On July 27 2012 12:18 Golbat wrote: Keir: I'm not sure if you understood my post, but I probably wasn't all that clear. What I meant was, if we have no solid reads on who might be scum, then we can lynch a lurker. But, if we do have a good idea of who might be scum, we have to prioritize investigating/lynching them over taking the easy lynch of a lurker. Basically I think that policy lynching lurkers before considering people who are even the least bit scummy is a bad play. On the flip side, policy lynching liars is not a bad play, because the only reason to lie is because you're scum (apart from potentially claiming VT when actually a blue role, I think). Honestly I straight up disagree with this, I have seen great plays based on lying, usually fake claims to pull night kills or push town in the right direction. Every lie should be closely analyzed to see how it benefits town or scum and why; the reasons for the action are what we should or should not lynch on, not the actions themselves. If you really want me to I'll try to find an example of this. @Shady Sands: Vigi shots were originally created with the intent that town cuold use them to hit scummy looking lurkers without wasting lynches. That is still a good use for them. On July 27 2012 15:12 goodkarma wrote: -snip- I'm much more interested in seeking out those who have been somewhat active but haven't really said anything useful. -snip- Promethelax (to a far lesser degree), who's claiming an irl excuse. I understand irl commitments can keep us from doing fun things, but if it becomes a habit that keeps you from posting then you're on my suspect list. This is more of an example of what I consider a scummy play more than a suspect person. It's too early to tell here. Just wanted to say: this is why I posted my work schedule before the game started, my stupidly timed absenses are not alignment indicative. I'll be doing this a lot of the time. I like to tell the thread where I am so that they know if they should expect a reply from me or not. I feel this is optimal play for both town and scum so it should be a totally null behavior, at least from me. On July 27 2012 15:32 Keirathi wrote: @goodkarma: I mostly agree with your assessment of Mordanis. I feel like it would be a really silly play for a mafia to try to pull this early. It *WAS* a suspiciously weak case though, but mostly I feel like it was a townie trying to find something to push rather than a scum trying to start a bandwagon. I'll be keeping my eye on him though, that's for sure. About your suspects: aRyuujin I don't really have much to comment about him. I feel like its too early to start qualifying people as lurkers. It is the middle of the night in US times, so I suspect a lot of people are sleeping. MrMedic In his longest post, he did have some good insight despite how hard the post was to follow. He noted how each point of the Mordanis case against me seemed to be trying to paint me dying in a good light. Would definitely like to hear more from him, hopefully in an easier to follow writing style next time though. Promethelax People have to work and sleep. I've played with Prom before, I have no doubt that he'll be active when he has time. People have to work and sleep, they can't be active 24 hours a day. That being said, Prom has been scum in most (all?) of his previous games, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him  Man do your research, I was scum in XIX and town in MTG. I'm an active poster in everything. MTG I was in way over my head playing with people who knew their shit while it was my first ever game. I'm trying to be a better townie this game than I was in that one. Oh god, I'm the new Marv... aR reminds me of some really great townie players who have given themselves posting limitations (Foolishness in Aperature and Mattchew in the first MTG) if he can convey his reads and everything else in Haiku more power to him. His play thus far is slightly green to me but not far from null. Modanis is playing badly no matter which side he is on, I'll be keeping an eye on him but since we've already seen this from him he has to step up his game if he is Town or scum so I'll wait to see more from him before making a real read. @ Golbat:+ Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 16:07 Golbat wrote: While we're all here, let's not waste time. We might as well discuss people other than Keir, because there ARE other people besides Keir. I think MrMedic may be scum, and is "reluctant to make a big first post" because he doesn't know how to post without being scummy. It's a legitimate concern, and if I had rolled scum in my first game, I might be in much the same state of mind. That being said, he might also be town, and reluctant to make a big post because he doesn't want to look scummy. I can understand that as well, and that was my concern before I actually got stuck into the discussion. Basically what my point is is that he either is or is not scum (lol), and that i'm going to be reading his posts very carefully until further notice. Keir seems to me to be town. He gave some good advice for our (potential) roleblocker where scum might have done the opposite and given intentionally bad advice while appearing to have good intentions. However, beyond that first bit of advice, he hasn't contributed anything to the scumhunt. He hasn't even called out his accuser as being scummy at all. It is possible that, knowing that they are both mafia, Mord made a really bad case against him so that the town would rally to his defense, thus keeping suspicion away from him, while also making Mord seem like a townie who had simply jumped at the first thing he saw that was a bit off. I hope he isn't scum, but I won't rule it out just yet. Pretty sure Mord is scum. I did vote for him after all. But, there is always the chance he was just a very eager townie. The only thing about him being town that rubs me the wrong way is how emphatically he decided to stay with his line of reasoning, despite the fact that it had been slapped down by multiple people. Very suspicious. Perhaps I myself jumped the gun in voting for him, but being one to not throw around votes lightly, i'm keeping my vote on him unless there is completely overwhelming evidence that he is either not scum, or that someone else is scummier. I really like the OMGUS! vote though, <3. DarthPunk seems like a pretty straight-forward townie to me. He picked apart Mord's case against Keir, and hasn't said one thing yet that doesn't seem pro-town. I agree with almost all of the things he says, and look forward to winning with him after we lynch the final mafia. Promethelax Hasn't said much of substance, but that can be excused due to not being able to post. He said he'd be here to watch GSL, so he's probably going to post very soon. I have no idea about his alignment, other than that he claimed to be town. aRyuujin Has said nothing of substance, and hasn't given a reason for his lack of content. Seems to be a lurker, and if he doesn't speak up with something useful by the day2 deadline, he's certainly one of the people I have my sights on. goodkarma has given a legitimate reason not to vote Mord, and I can respect that. Going for the policy lynch on a lurker I can respect too, but I think that we should lynch someone who feels scummy before someone who feels asleep on their keyboard. alan133 has one good post, and nothing else of substance. But being from Malaysia I can understand not being synched up with the rest of us. I'll have to read his posts when I wake up tomorrow. Zorkmid seemed to be active before the ball truly got rolling, and then ceased to post after it did. Being canadian, he's probably asleep, and as such I'll have to wait to pass judgement on him as well. Shady Sands, aside from being a good writer, also seems to be town. He agrees with my assessment of Mord, and that is a good enough reason for me to avoid casting too much suspicion on him, but of course I can't completely trust anyone on day one. Obvious.660 is asleep Ange777 has said nothing since the game started. I hope to hear from him soon I'd like to hear other people's reads as well, this is going to be the only time I post a list of my reads on everyone, so as not to appear too spammy, even though I hope this clears me of any potential scum suspicion, seeing as i'm town as all get out. So as for the Golbat/Mord nonsense, yeah its day one stay cool and try to be productive. Don't just OMGUS each other, if you are town it doesn;t help and if you are scum you look scummy. Play better please. Ange: its good to see you posting I think that means that we are all here. Lets get down to business, I'm going to read over some filters and see if anything pops out at me. I'm here and I'll be around until I pass out (it is 6:30 am for me). | ||
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alan133
Malaysia159 Posts
I was kinda thrown off when Golbat decides to unvote Mordanis because he started off having high confidence that he is scum. His "I am a newbie post" also contributes to my suspicions on him. I quickly dismissed them because I still have my FOS on Mordanis and he did a case on Golbat too. Now that Ange777 has mentioned it, I would like to ask Golbat, what makes you think that Mordanis is not scum anymore? To me, his only "townie points" is that he is the first player who built a case, but that's about it. Is there some "obvious" reason that I missed? Every time I re-read Mordanis's posts I am more convinced that he is scum. | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
Basically, I'm NOT scum, and anything scummy I have said or done so far can be explained by my inexperience. After reading Prom's post (especially the bit regarding self-imposed posting limits), I feel like it's time for me to take a break, especially after spewing so much bullshit and bad play all over the thread. See you in about 6-12 hours. | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 18:42 alan133 wrote: I have read and re-read the filters but couldn't find anything other than Mordanis' "meh" case on Kei and subsequent cases against Mordanis for that. I was kinda thrown off when Golbat decides to unvote Mordanis because he started off having high confidence that he is scum. His "I am a newbie post" also contributes to my suspicions on him. I quickly dismissed them because I still have my FOS on Mordanis and he did a case on Golbat too. Now that Ange777 has mentioned it, I would like to ask Golbat, what makes you think that Mordanis is not scum anymore? To me, his only "townie points" is that he is the first player who built a case, but that's about it. Is there some "obvious" reason that I missed? Every time I re-read Mordanis's posts I am more convinced that he is scum. The reason I backed off of Mord is because I felt like I may have been pushing too strongly against him based on his first bad read. I didn't want to appear to be scum myself, so I backed off for the moment. I still have a sneaking suspicion about him that he may be mafia, but I didn't want to lynch myself by pushing too hard on a bad read. I feel like i've been talking in circles around mord, "He's scum, no he's town, no he might be scum, no he's probably town", so I feel like I need to take a definite stance on the matter, and that is ##FoS Mordanis It's not the flat-out vote that it was before, but I still don't trust you. I've heard several times to trust my reads, and so this is my position. We'll see what happens between now and lynch time. + Show Spoiler + but for real now, I need to step away from the thread for a few hours | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
He starts with policy talk, as we all did. On July 27 2012 06:29 Zorkmid wrote: About the bolded part, I think that early on in a game, there really isn't that much to go on in order to choose who to vote for. I also think that which an inactive player isn't necessarily scum, they aren't very helpful to town. Same goes for liars. That's my two cents. Follows it up with an immediate about face when he learns about the no-lynch option On July 27 2012 06:46 Zorkmid wrote: Well in that case, I don't feel as strongly about lynching all liars and inactives. He leaves hoping for more from others On July 27 2012 06:48 Zorkmid wrote: I'll have to think about that for a little while, hopefully while I'm gone we'll hear more from the others! and after that comes back with a question and than dissapears On July 27 2012 08:15 Zorkmid wrote: This makes perfect sense to me, so how we determine who to target initially? That was over ten hours ago, I don't get it. Where did you go Zork? I don't like his play so far and, thus, a FoS is declared. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On July 27 2012 18:42 alan133 wrote: I have read and re-read the filters but couldn't find anything other than Mordanis' "meh" case on Kei and subsequent cases against Mordanis for that. I was kinda thrown off when Golbat decides to unvote Mordanis because he started off having high confidence that he is scum. His "I am a newbie post" also contributes to my suspicions on him. I quickly dismissed them because I still have my FOS on Mordanis and he did a case on Golbat too. Now that Ange777 has mentioned it, I would like to ask Golbat, what makes you think that Mordanis is not scum anymore? To me, his only "townie points" is that he is the first player who built a case, but that's about it. Is there some "obvious" reason that I missed? Every time I re-read Mordanis's posts I am more convinced that he is scum. What is it that has changed your mind? You went from "Mordanis could go either way, started scumhunt but didn't agree with everyone" to "scum", without saying what changed your mind. In fact I would like to ask I just want to point out that if internal contradiction is grounds for lynching, I think pretty much everyone's dead D1. And I really do want to know why Alan is suspicious of me, because I see one mistake (over-pursuing my case on Keir), and I'd argue that this post is equally a mistake. So I wait patiently. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On July 27 2012 18:42 alan133 wrote: I have read and re-read the filters but couldn't find anything other than Mordanis' "meh" case on Kei and subsequent cases against Mordanis for that. I was kinda thrown off when Golbat decides to unvote Mordanis because he started off having high confidence that he is scum. His "I am a newbie post" also contributes to my suspicions on him. I quickly dismissed them because I still have my FOS on Mordanis and he did a case on Golbat too. Now that Ange777 has mentioned it, I would like to ask Golbat, what makes you think that Mordanis is not scum anymore? To me, his only "townie points" is that he is the first player who built a case, but that's about it. Is there some "obvious" reason that I missed? Every time I re-read Mordanis's posts I am more convinced that he is scum. Just to be clear, you mean Golbat is scum? Or Mordanis is scum? | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On July 27 2012 19:14 Ange777 wrote: Just to be clear, you mean Golbat is scum? Or Mordanis is scum? The impression I got was that Mord was scum. I'd like better reasons from Alan though. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
I don't like your explanation. You are just playing the newbie card. Yes, this is a Newbie game but that does not mean that I am willing to overlook scummy behaviour. Therefore my vote still stands on you until you can at least give some effort in scum hunting to show that you are town. @Promethelax: While I agree with your suspicions on Zorkmid there are several players who need to step up their game. Posting fluff is not helping town at all! | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On July 27 2012 19:22 Ange777 wrote: @Golbat: I don't like your explanation. You are just playing the newbie card. Yes, this is a Newbie game but that does not mean that I am willing to overlook scummy behaviour. Therefore my vote still stands on you until you can at least give some effort in scum hunting to show that you are town. @Promethelax: While I agree with your suspicions on Zorkmid there are several players who need to step up their game. Posting fluff is not helping town at all! True enough. Down with the fluff! Would you do my a favour and read through Shady's filter and tell me what you think. I have some opinions and I want to hear from someone else before I bias them with my reads. Yeah, if I hear a any noob play the newb card from here on I will hate said noob forever. Don't be dumb, we're all newbs that is why we're in a newb game. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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