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t doesn't really matter now though so let's not focus too much on it.
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toad and hassy - I really don't think that whether or not he's faking getting pissed off is the center of the case. He would get just as pissed as scum if he thought he was getting lynched for bad reasons as he would get pissed about being mislynched as town. The key here is whether his behavior makes you think he's scum.
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dont rely on pm dialogue.
"i can't find out a good scum in pm's. no one really can." -wbg from those pm's
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On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum)
if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit.
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On August 05 2012 04:46 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sorry to BC and those players who aren't playing terribly (notably VE slOosh and Zeph) but I actually don't care about being modkilled given that it will stop the stupid discussion about mr being scum.
Like given the mounds of this shit I've had to go through (like every time I play with gonzaw) I have fucking zero sympathy for you right now. If you have irl shit then ask for a replacement, otherwise just fucking deal with it and play the game.
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On August 05 2012 05:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sure, my play has not been the best given the fucktard that won't stop tunneling me for no reason at all.
Normally I'd be completely fine with some idiot tunneling me but the fact that I'm low on patience coupled with other people agreeing with his terrible reasoning is enough to make me want to not play anymore.
Seriously if you think I am scum, when I flip town go read some new player guides. Especially Erandorr, you never do anything in any of the games you sign up for except lurk and complain other people are bad when you are worse than all of them. Then you think so highly of yourself that you are capable of catching me (you aren't) when you don't even know basic scumhunting.
Here's a hint: calling me scum every game is not you being able to catch me regardless of what I flipped in the past. It's just you falling head over heels for confirmation bias because you think results make you good.
jesus fucking christ get over yourself and get over erandorr.
if you are town then:
- your decision to out the masons without explaining it was terrible
- your explanations for it were terrible
- your vote on grush was terrible
After that I am not going to sit here and take you calling me bad for thinking you're scum.
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On August 05 2012 05:13 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:11 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 05:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sure, my play has not been the best given the fucktard that won't stop tunneling me for no reason at all.
Normally I'd be completely fine with some idiot tunneling me but the fact that I'm low on patience coupled with other people agreeing with his terrible reasoning is enough to make me want to not play anymore.
Seriously if you think I am scum, when I flip town go read some new player guides. Especially Erandorr, you never do anything in any of the games you sign up for except lurk and complain other people are bad when you are worse than all of them. Then you think so highly of yourself that you are capable of catching me (you aren't) when you don't even know basic scumhunting.
Here's a hint: calling me scum every game is not you being able to catch me regardless of what I flipped in the past. It's just you falling head over heels for confirmation bias because you think results make you good. jesus fucking christ get over yourself and get over erandorr. if you are town then: - your decision to out the masons without explaining it was terrible - your explanations for it were terrible - your vote on grush was terrible After that I am not going to sit here and take you calling me bad for thinking you're scum. You thinking a difference in opinion makes someone scum = terrible. None of the things you mentioned are remotely bad in the first place.
that has nothing to do with it. I think you're scum because your explanations don't hold together, because you tried to change the lynch to grush (the most lynchable target in the game) and tried to get us to do a troll lynch, because you made a half-assed attempt at a "case" on him later that is far worse than what I know you're capable of, because your explanations were inconsistent, and because your play matches a lot of things that you have said you don't do as town.
None of that has to do with a "difference of opinion."
So once again, fuck you right back.
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Alright so I see BC posted while I was writing that.
He's right, so let me rephrase that post. It should read:
that has nothing to do with it. I think you're scum because your explanations don't hold together, because you tried to change the lynch to grush (the most lynchable target in the game) and tried to get us to do a troll lynch, because you made a half-assed attempt at a "case" on him later that is far worse than what I know you're capable of, because your explanations were inconsistent, and because your play matches a lot of things that you have said you don't do as town.
None of that has to do with a "difference of opinion."
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On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch?
forgot to answer this.
My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative.
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On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like".
Just finished reading it.
So you're thinking about this wrong.
wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid.
So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze.
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On August 05 2012 06:35 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 06:18 Erandorr wrote:On August 05 2012 05:48 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze. Could you guys also please look at the "fight" where i try really hard to actually do stuff and he insults me about 100 times. It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots". The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy.
This is beside the point. It's not that he revealed the masons, it's how he did it, how he justified it in the thread and how he acted under pressure.
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On August 05 2012 07:26 talismania wrote:
Jingle I think you're town and all but why does a scum mason mason some guy who just outed another mason? Why does scum erandorr do that?
why does town erandorr do it? it's bad play either way imo.
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alright well i'm going to bed. still want to kill wbg so i'll be keeping my vote there.
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I'm considering fakeclaiming a power role as VT.
just thought I'd let you guys know.
we need to start killing mafia.
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Alright I just spent like two hours rereading the whole thread. Here's what I've got:
Scummiest of all: wherebugsgo
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 20:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
before I forget, I got masoned by VE.
I'm not a mason. I'm Roger Sterling. You guys should know that by now, but then again I don't remember why I hired some of you. scummy as fuck. idgaf about him getting all emo that's not alignment indicative. It seems like continuing to push for his lynch right now is just gonna fuck over the town atmosphere even more, so I'll give him a day. However, it's gonna take some fucking townie-ass shit to change my mind. also where the fuck do bugs go On August 04 2012 08:52 wherebugsgo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Let's kill grush. As long as he trolls he's a detriment and certainly the only thing he actually does as scum is troll. Pretty sure given his first post he's not town this game, just as he wasn't in LV.
I would strongly suggest to anyone who gets masoned to out the person who masoned them from now on. If both Eran and VE are town then the likelihood of a third mason being town is incredibly low. Thus if there is a scum mason they'd be unlikely to use it (win for us). I'm pretty sure both VE and Eran are town (for now). In particular Eran is almost certainly town because he really wants me to prove I'm town (encouraging me to get on skype, for example) something I don't think he'd do as scum. Anyone voting for him right now (Jingle) needs to also read his posts. Some of the logic might be bad but that doesn't make Eran scum.
##vote grush57 seriously scummy as fuck
>80% chance of flipping scum imo:
- Glasse
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 22:27 Glasse wrote:
If the mason role is as important as some people are saying, calling them out only exposes them to mafia no? nice first post after the game started. On August 05 2012 10:05 Glasse wrote:
So it's 9pm, looks like prplhz is the one. Let's see how this turns out. On August 05 2012 10:11 Glasse wrote:
-.-
It was to be expected. lol yeah okay.
- BroodKingExe
+ Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 08:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
wtf? This was his first post after the game started; it came 3 minutes after the modkill, and he didn't post again for 24 hours. Scummy. As. Fuck. On August 05 2012 09:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I have a problem with the top two lynch candidates.
WBG: calling out the mason was a good move in my book. But it doesn't make shit sense from the scum POV, scum can kill him regardless of whether or not the town knows the mason. His feud with Eran seems to be long standing and I could believe bugs could get frustrated and rage.
prplphz: Although his play has been poor I agree with his initial case against Glasse. Glasse's play was poor and lynch worthy at the time. Furthermore this lynch seems too much like a wagon on an inactive.
I feel much more comfortable lynching Eran. Seems like he could be mason scum manipulating bugs, looking to create trouble. He said himself he wanted to create a scumhunting environment, yet he helps initiate a shitstorm in a mason PM. This post is also super scummy. He throws doubt on the two main lynch candidates, but his alternative is... Erandorr? If he wanted an actual switch it was going to take way more than that. This reads more to me like scum not wanting to be on a town lynch of prplhz or wbg if he's town, and not wanting to lynch his buddy if wbg is scum.
- BioSC
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 12:15 BioSC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hihi! First big game on TL, rolling town. Lets get started.
Masons - Perm masons, nah, don't need to claim until needed.
Temp masons, I would be very fine with claiming that. Didn't read the thread. scum qt probably said "hey comment on the mason thing it's free not-being-a-lurker." On August 05 2012 06:41 BioSC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm on board with a prplhz lynch. Like others have already posted, he's asking too many questions and not providing any reads of his own. I don't really count his vote on SlOosh a read. On August 04 2012 02:10 prplhz wrote:
@Toadesstern My posting should be self explanatory. There was no secret plan, Glasse was being scummy. That said, I'm willing to let him go for now after his latest post explaining his wherebugsgo read. If you still have problems then flesh them out.
##Unvote Glasse
slOosh absolutely needs to post. He posted elsewhere on this forum while this game was going on (like 12 hours ago) so he has absolutely no excuse. In Normal Mini Mafia II his first post was just a single vote with no explanation, how long could it take for him to write a post like that just to let us know that he's alive?
##Vote slOosh Makes out his vote as a pressure vote to get SlOosh posting, then posts an excuse not to post. On August 05 2012 00:46 prplhz wrote:
I'm like really hungover and I can't read anything right now. wherebugsgo looks townie enough though and I don't want to lynch him. grush57 lynch looks like an okay lynch. I'm okay with making this happen. ##Vote prplhz This is also super scummy. Just kinda rolling along with the bandwagon, and imitating others reasoning without directly saying it (scummy because scum like to make it seem like they're thinking independantly even when they're not.)
Candidates for the other scum:
- JingleHell
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 11:39 JingleHell wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 11:37 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 11:32 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm town.
for that matter I'm Roger fucking Sterling, so suck my dick. lets start this game right ## VOTE: WBG We don't even have much discussion yet, but you still ignored it. Why? feels town at first but actually it's not. On August 03 2012 23:32 JingleHell wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 21:13 Toadesstern wrote:I'm more interested in VE's intentions actually. - Did he mason someone randomly from the get go? Why wasn't he afraid to randomly hit mafia at all? WBG can be pretty manipulative
- If it was not from the get-go VE probably had a town-read on WBG. If that's the case VE should have no problem at all telling people why he thinks WBG to be town. Someone masoning without even being able to explain why is the most suspicious thing in the world. So VE SHOULD have told WBG why he thinks that he's town if that's really the case.
- Did VE explain why he masoned you WBG?
I'd rather have an answer quite quick than giving VE some time to write something up. This seemed off because he seemed to have stopped for the night by the time I went to sleep. So, I looked. Sure enough, you start posting a case 7 hours and change after VE's last post, you vote somewhere in the 8ish hour range, and say you want fast answers 9 hours after his last post. Asking for an answer quick is one thing if he's posting, but this seems a bit pushy. Trying to force the issue with someone who hasn't posted in hours and use that to make them look scummy? I can't speak for his motives, because they sure as hell don't make much sense to me yet, but yours just seem scummy. This is a pretty terrible reason to find someone scummy, and I'm a connoiseur of terrible reasons to find someone scummy. On August 03 2012 23:36 JingleHell wrote:
Ah. My apologies. Maybe I should finish my caffeine, I missed that. Just gonna leave this here for you guys.
- Toad
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 20:58 Toadesstern wrote:
##Vote VE
where the fuck did this come from On August 04 2012 00:05 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 23:56 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 22:27 Toadesstern wrote:On August 03 2012 22:13 Lazermonkey wrote:On August 03 2012 21:44 Toadesstern wrote:On August 03 2012 21:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
@Toad: I don't agree with masoned players not claiming. You say that the most likely player to be masoned is someone who looks town, I agree with that. But your argument is that scum will have an easier time to make a good NK kill because of that. People will be posting town reads none the les so I don't see this as much of an issue. One town read will most probebly not be the main reason for a Nk and if there are alot of people suspecting that person to be town, he is very likely to be killed anyway.Also, if the masoned players claim right before night we can prevent a night kill on these players at least for that night.
Basically, this is the only negative thing I can think of with people claiming masoned. But the advantages for this is way bigger. Just to remind you, this was the question: On August 03 2012 20:35 Toadesstern wrote:On August 03 2012 20:09 Lazermonkey wrote:On August 03 2012 17:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I really don't see a reason for someone NOT to claim if they get masoned. One might argue that it let's scum get one of the few pieces of info that they've not already recived, however I don't really see how scum would be able to capitalize on the fact that there are town masons in the game. Okay, when thinking of it, there might be some situations that people claiming masoned might be usefull for scum. But Town will most likely gain more from claiming than scum. Masoned players SHOULD claim. what kind of information do you get as a townie if I were to tell you that I got masoned for example?
What kind of reaction would that trigger?I can't think of one to be honest. We will know the exact numbers of masons unless scum mason decides not to use his power at all in which case he can be treated as vanilla scum. Yes, this means scum will also know how many masons there are, however scum already have two advantages here. 1. They already know whether or not there is a scum mason. 2. If one scum ever gets masoned all scum will know who is that that person is scum mason whilest if town gets masoned and we decide that they shouldn't claim, only that person will know who is the mason. There is more to gain for town than for scum by claiming. If you treat it as information we want to use that IS a pretty big if, isn't it? Let's say we're in a situation with 3 town masons and 1 mafia mason for the sake of getting some numbers. Let's say the 3 town masons get claimed, the 1 mafia mason won't be claimed. What's the next step? "Woah, we've got EXACTLY 3 masons, one of them is bound to be mafia! Let's lynch into them!" ? If that's not the next step, what good is the information? You said yourself, we're going to know the exact number of masons, while saying that it's very much possible that the number will be wrong. That's kind of contradicting imo. On August 03 2012 22:16 Zephirdd wrote:
I'm not part of the mason circles I guess /sad
Toad, why insta-voting VE? I know you had some suspicion of him, but did you consider that VE sounded overly cautious because he is a mason? That's what I get at least.
Erandorr, why masoning someone who just outted his mason? kind of. That's not what I said. In the situation you describe we can't assume that any of the masons are scum. There are no guarantees for scum mason. However, In the situation you describe, we have effectivly turned a quite strong scum mason into a weak vanilla scum. We are in an advantage we wouldn't have been in if we wouldn't claim masoned. Well Talis said he'd like to do something like that earlier, so surely it's going to be a shitstorm of people arguing wether we should lynch into them or not. At the same time we're giving mafia better odds at killing people they want to kill instead of just killing people. I don't think that's to good. And again, we don't know what kind of scenario could be true. You basicly just said "well in that situation we don't lynch because we don't know if we have a mafiamason". So the mafias don't have to hide their masons according to you, because we're not lynching into them, because even it it were 3, 4 or 5 or 6 masons, we can't know for sure that one of them has to be a mafia mason, right? In that scenario we got nothing at all while giving mafia better odds. Lazermonkey is a noob but toad why in the world are you still having this argument at this point in the thread? On August 04 2012 19:22 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Exactly this. Still re-reading but I like this post and I think lynching WBG should be the way to go today. Out of my 5-man list I consider VE to be the guy who is the least likely to flip mafia. I'm a little scared Talis might actually think the way he posts so I'd rather go for either WBG or Prplhz. After WoF I'd say WBG is the way to go because I saw Prplhz fail pretty hard in there, so I want to give him some time for now. Zephird is just like VE one of the weaker reads. I can't stop but getting the fealing that WBG is faking all this being pissed and his reasoning for outing masons is still non-existent. It's the same thing like claiming mafia in irc-mafia because there's not much ups and downs for that besides being a bold move. I could have maybe come up with a reasoning for why he outed VE given that it's VE. Something like "Well the dude is VE, he's going to claim within the next 12hours ANYWAYS so might as well get over it now". With Erandorr being outed as well that's not longer a possibility and except for the whole thing being a bold move I don't see a reason to do it at all. This is mafia Bugs doing bold moves on purposes for the sake of doing something bold, because people think mafia don't do stuff like that. There's no other purpose of this whole shenanigan he did. So this makes sense, I'll be looking to see what changed your mind. On August 05 2012 01:28 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 01:03 Hassybaby wrote:
The way I see it about bugs right now, two things come to mind:
1. Bugs is getting annoyed for a genuine reason in the mason.
2. Bugs is getting annoyed for the sake of getting annoyed.
I'm leaning towards the latter right now, but I'd like to see the logs to see if there's a real reason for him being annoyed, but it still doesn't explain his mason play. That's pretty much it. Bugs IS insulting and he IS pissed as town when someone gets on his nerves. As mafia he's not but he's trying to look as though he is, so he has to fake it. If bugs is mad for no reason he is faking it and therefore mafia. If there is a genuine reason to be frustrated / mad he could be both town or mafia. From what I saw in the thread his frustration looks awfully faked because there's no reason to freak out like that. Which means he either fakes it or something is happening in PM-land. I'd rather know about that kind of thing BEFORE we lynch so eran or WBG pretty please post the logs? This is a change in logic. In toad's previous post he thought wbg was scum because he was doing something bold that made no sense. This time, it comes down to the question of whether or not he's genuinely angry. Not only is this bad logic, it's also inconsistent - whether or not he's genuinely pissed off, the context of "him doing something bold" etcetera doesn't change at all. On August 05 2012 04:57 Toadesstern wrote:
what about this?
We lynch Mr 95% mafia: Prplhz
I said he's mafia. Erandorr seems to agree, WBG posted most recently that he thinks prplhz is mafia as well, sloOsh thinks prplhz is mafia and prplhz thinks WBG is town, which is REALLY odd unless he wants to tell people later "told ya", which is one of the reasons I am questioning the wbg lynch.
If Prplhz flips mafia we're all happy.
If Prplhz flips town we lynch/shoot WBG + talis Do you still think this? Should we be lynching/shooting wbg and talismania? Also I'm not sure how this ever made sense in the first place - why does the fact that wbg or talismania were wrong about prplhz's alignment make them scum? This "if you're wrong about this lynch then you're scum' thing is classic scum logic.
- Talismania
+ Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 04:37 talismania wrote:
yep zeph is scummy for exactly why sloosh says. erandorr I thought was for a bit but I don't understand masoning wbg from a scum pov. jinglehell is town, lazer is town, strongandbig is town. toad I thought was scum at first because of the timing of his patented color text post but he's just been being generally rather toady, which is to say he makes really strange (from my perspective) conclusions about what's good in the setup and what's not with strange (again from my perspective) reasoning behind it. Glasse I thought was hilariously obviously scummy. Like so blatant I honestly don't know what to think. Guess I should go dig up another game of his. this post doesn't seem like talismania normally plays as town to me, but I can't put a finger on why. On August 04 2012 05:13 talismania wrote:
ps can people post their character names? I just want to satisfy my curiosity to find out who is in the game - I know that they don't mean anything since I'm VT with Henry Francis. Although I will LOL if scum has Ted Chaugh and Putnam, Powell, Lowe etc. And if WBG is veteran since Roger comes back from a heart attack in the first season. This is 100% not alignment indicative from talismania. It's his thing - he's like Ace and Sandroba's baby love child when it comes to trying to break setups, as either alignment. That said, it's not specific posts that make me think talismania is scummy, it's more his general attitude towards the lynch and the game - it just feels off. If you want to call this a gut read then fine, whatever.
- HassyBaby
+ Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 05:28 Hassybaby wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys! Ok, reading through, I'm trying to figure out your motives talis. I totally disagree with your assessment of mason (I think they are a lot better than you are portraying that they are in this game) and would have left it at us just having different opinions But then you post this: On August 04 2012 05:13 talismania wrote:
ps can people post their character names? I just want to satisfy my curiosity to find out who is in the game - I know that they don't mean anything since I'm VT with Henry Francis. Although I will LOL if scum has Ted Chaugh and Putnam, Powell, Lowe etc. And if WBG is veteran since Roger comes back from a heart attack in the first season. Now on surface that may not be that bad, but the fact that you're outlining potential links between names and roles, why in the hell are you bringing it to light? That coupled with you wanting the masons to claim makes me feel you're rolefishing Yeah so given that it's talismania you're talking about, I find this post kinda scummy since I assume you two have played together before. Talismania's been all over the forum for the past few months. Plus the fact that there's no real commitment to a position. On August 04 2012 23:53 Hassybaby wrote:
Bugs, from the way it looks to me, you're annoyed about something that's happened in the logs between you and Eran. Can you post them here? I think it's valuable information Thank you hassybaby for that valuable contribution.
- also count dropula or hier but mostly only because their filters are tiny as shit and contain like one scummy post, they don't have the same "scummy" ring to them; and they're a noob and a smurf so their inactivity isn't inherently scummy like I think, for example, hassybaby's or broodking's are.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 03:16 CountDropula wrote:
I really think the most important issue for us right now is getting people active. Were giving mafia too much space to hide.
Nevertheless, I'm voting wbg right now though that can change.
For sure watching zeph though, but I need a better case. lol thanks bro On August 05 2012 06:55 Hier wrote:
I do not understand this prplhz accusation. There are literally two things he has done:
1) Accuse Glasse of having passive posts.
2) Change his vote to slOosh for not being active.
Then he gets drunk and goes MIA.
Instead I'm starting to look at Toad for borderline forcing people to vote for prplhz, as opposed to encouraging votes for whoever people consider scummy.
WBG I'm almost convinced is town, in light of the conversation log between him and Erandorr. yeah this is pretty scummy. Those are really bad reasons to think someone is town, and if he's town this is a terrible attempt to try and get people off of the prplhz vote.
I also generated quite a few weak town reads and three or four really really strong town reads. However, I won't be sharing those because there's no good reason to and I don't want to give scum advice on which lurkers to shoot.
I'm also just going to post some stuff down below here because it deserves to be pointed out.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 10:34 Zephirdd wrote:
HAHAHA I WIN
for that
##vote prplhz I didn't realize we ventured off the beaten path into MafiaScum here...so we're just voting randomly now? Should I take this as your consent to lynch randomly today? For my part, I'm very much against random lynching in this game. We need to be lynching scum, and if Bureaucracy taught us anything, it's that D1 scum lynches are VERY VERY possible given proper scumhunting. Granted, it took scum and town BOTH looking, but I digress....I'm against RL this game. town but it's ve so who knowsActually wait where the fuck did random lynch proposal come from -> null or scum Yeah I know people said ve was playing cautiously because of his role but fuck that he's ve, he doesn't do that shit. On August 05 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, everyone STOP.
This lynch on WBG is not happening.
Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit.
I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY.
##Vote: talismania
I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really?
I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo. This is pretty terrible play, VE. You just assert that your PMs with wbg make you think he's town. That shouldn't be enough to move a lynch off of someone without proof, you need to back that up. On the other hand, I think talismania looks scummy, so ve gets benefit of the doubt for now.
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In this post I'm asking some questions or yelling giving some friendly advice to others.
Grush:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 07:50 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:49 BioSC wrote:On August 04 2012 07:48 grush57 wrote:
NONONONO MAFIA REFLECTED THE HEAT FROM WBG TO ZEPH
##Vote: Wherebugsgo Pretty bold first post there, care to state your findings? THE STARSENSES, THEY ARE COOOOMMING TOO MEEE grush why do you even play mafia if you just aren't going to try. I mean you might be scum this time around but you do shit like this as both alignments. I am not even kidding or trying to insult you here. I genuinely am curious - why do you keep joining games if you're not going to actually play? Or do you just not understand that (1) establishing your innocence, and (2) persuading other people of your reads are actually important parts of the game?
Synystyr:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 01:14 Synystyr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +In regards to Grush vs WBG, I did find this back fro LVI Man, scum Grush isn't based on him having opinions. It's based on him not activating his starsenses. He was dumb and trolly but mildly helpful in listing people somewhere, enough so that maju mentioned his starsenses in LV, and Grush then posted a list of suspects, although in Grush fashion. This time, NO STARSENSE.
KURUMI RULE + NO STARSENSE REFERENCE = SCUM. from: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/hmrAdwKTNFmDead obs thread for LVI Grush did mention starsenses in this thread, so this may be his way of tipping us off that he is town with us. However he's seems so trollish that this could mean nothing. I wouldn't go as far as to discredit this though. I'm still not a fan at all of WBG's idea to out masons this early. Whatever he says, it is a completely anti-town move and gives Mafia easy targets. WBG is also messing with our Vig's head on who to shoot. He may be directing the heat off of himself and onto the masons as targets, causing possible misfire. I believe Erandorr and VE are both town and WBG's play is to fuck with the Vig's head and get a misfire on either, while the Mafia target the other. You need to post more and also post things that are more insightful man. I think what you're suggesting here is that grush is breadcrumbing that he's town and we should listen to him, which is pretty silly - otherwise we would know that he's scum every time he didn't do that. I guess you are new so you get a day or two since there are even clearer scum, but seriously bro post more and post better please.
Sloosh:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 03:02 slOosh wrote:
OK Talis just claimed scum with that last post. Ignore him please. If talismania claimed scum with that post why did we lynch prplhz and not him.
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On August 06 2012 01:04 Zephirdd wrote:
S&B, your pretty pwetty little list is nothing but a list of half-ass scum reads made to make anyone look scummy.
I heard somewhere that those who post many "scum reads" at once are most likely scum because they are creating ground for several targets. Are you scum?
nooooope, better luck next time!
I decided to reread the whole thread, thinking of looking for scum other than wbg, and that list is what I found.
If you look, you'll note that several of the people I quoted haven't posted much. I'd kind of like them to post a bit more before I decide on one of them to push for lynching tomorrow. But rest assured, I will narrow it down to one when the day post comes around and I'll push to lynch that person.
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On August 06 2012 01:04 Zephirdd wrote:
S&B, your pretty pwetty little list is nothing but a list of half-ass scum reads made to make anyone look scummy.
I heard somewhere that those who post many "scum reads" at once are most likely scum because they are creating ground for several targets. Are you scum?
Two more things.
1. Does my list really make you more suspicious than Talismania's? They were like four posts apart, but his list just had general impressions and feelings whereas I actually quoted the posts that make me think people are scum.
2. Do you disagree with my reads? Do you think some of the posts I'm quoting are not scummy? Seriously, take a look and tell me.
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On August 06 2012 04:11 talismania wrote:
strongandbig and VE what do you think of the other?
I like answering questions like this! It's super easy and gets me free townie points!
no but actually
I think it's unlikely that VE is scum and wbg is town. It seems unlikely they would do a big gambit like this and have it explode in their face.
It looked like VE actually cared about the lynch / was acting to protect his townread, even if i think his read is wrong, defening your town reads is still kind of a town trait.
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EPT
