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On August 05 2012 06:32 Toadesstern wrote:
wat? the guys I'm in chat with are outed somewhere? Where? Did I miss something?
Or was it just about Talis saying "yeah figured you got masoned" ?
If he mentioned a name somewhere it's probably wrong because I can't remember something lol
No names, but the fact that he is drawing attention to that you got masoned, when I have no recollection of you saying that (if you did then I missed it). It's like seeing someone act like detective and pointing it out to everyone in thread.
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JingleHell we are trying to consolidate votes right now and because the deadline isn't as friendly to our European neighbors the #1 priority for town is to get this lynch through. We aren't going to lynch Erandorr today. We discuss him more at night but right now our goal is to lynch scum, and that will best happen with prplhz. So please vote him unless you think he is town.
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On August 05 2012 06:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
When is the lynch happening? I've been busy as hell these last two days and finally got some time to post now. I will reread some stuff now
3 hours I think?
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On August 05 2012 06:55 Hier wrote:
I do not understand this prplhz accusation. There are literally two things he has done:
1) Accuse Glasse of having passive posts.
2) Change his vote to slOosh for not being active.
Then he gets drunk and goes MIA.
Instead I'm starting to look at Toad for borderline forcing people to vote for prplhz, as opposed to encouraging votes for whoever people consider scummy.
WBG I'm almost convinced is town, in light of the conversation log between him and Erandorr.
You've said it yourself in your post. What has he done that you think him town? Prplhz is a good town player, and in this game he has contributed nothing. What Toad is doing isn't scummy. We need to get a lynch off and since we have alot of votes on WBG, we need even more votes on prplhz to lynch him. Because right now if everyone votes for who they think are scummy, then WBG will die.
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On July 14 2012 09:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 9pm est, but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
I believe EST is eastern standard time. Right now I live in midwest and its 5pm, so its 6pm there, and with a deadline of 9pm there is 3 hours left.
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I think we need 3 more votes. VE please don't forget to vote in the voting thread!
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OK: Dear all the townies who think they are being cool with voting who they want:
This plays into mafia agenda. This game is plurality lynch. Our concern is never the no lynch. Our concern is not consolidating, allowing mafia votes to have more power (since are on the same page and can pool votes more effectively).
I'm not bullying you - I'm asking you to be realistic. Right now WBG is the frontrunner. He will get lynched unless people unvote him, or people vote someone else more than him. You have the power to do that latter. However, sticking your vote on someone who has no votes is essentially throwing away your vote. Unless you think WBG is scum and prplhz isn't there should be any reason not to vote prplhz. Please realize that independence weakens town's ability to lynch correctly.
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On August 05 2012 07:07 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 06:35 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 06:18 Erandorr wrote:On August 05 2012 05:48 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze. Could you guys also please look at the "fight" where i try really hard to actually do stuff and he insults me about 100 times. It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots". The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy. Because I think what he did was fine. Am I supporting a scummy thought? I don't think so. It's just different. Several of us (me, Toad, VE) have moved on with varying opinions on WBG. I ask you to do the same. Consider prplhz and talismania. If you still think WBG is scum that's fine, but let's focus as a town and get some discussion on prplhz and talismania, because regardless of today's lynch they are serious contenders for d2 lynch. yeah prplhz deserves to be hammered as well, but it still amazes me that you would reduce the entire case on bugs on the mason thing. I think strongandbigs points were the strongest, to be frank, he found some really good quotes and made some very good points on wbg. Which is funny, because if you read what wbg is writing, he is reducing almost everything that has been written as me tunneling him and I am completely terrible and tunnel him every game*(which is a lie btw. In the Pms he even lied straight to my face and said I called him scum in mini mafia X (where he was scum) when I actually did not consider him. Look at the logs and that game,he is blatantly lying about that) . And it is working. I will keep my vote on WBG unless someone other than him or Prplhz would get lynched, in which case I will move to prpl. No one else though and I would rather see WBG dead than prplhz
I think I'm cutting at what started the whole thing. I can see what he did being a town move to make. You can disagree with that but it doesn't mean that it is fundamentally scummy. It has had the effect of giving soild / better town reads on you and VE, pressured scum masons and perhaps night kills. I don't think his original intent in outing masons was a scummy thing to do. He could have easily passed off shooting VE N1 no probs. If he really thinks your play is poor, he would have been fine letting you live. Rather, WBG outted the information publicly, giving town reasons.
His follow up play is ugly. I agree with you. However I can see it stemming from frustration and anger. Maybe I can empathize because I did the exact same thing in Normal Mini Mafia II, where I got emotional and did a whole bunch of anti-town stuff, leading to my mislynch and town loss. I agree that he did some serious mudslinging, and that there is bad blood in thread. However, I think the cause of his frustration is justified in that the original case against him doesn't really show him scum.
My meta read on him is town - he is consistent not only with his play this game but his recent mafia philosophys. Yes, he is hypocritical in that he got pissed off and he admits it with the establishing innocence post, but I find that him being town makes much more sense. Maybe I'm being biased because I respect the guy and think his scum play doesn't stoop this low, but it is what it is.
In either case, I think we can glean so much more of everyone's response to the WBG issue regardless of WBG's actual alignment. That's the direction I want to go from here.
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Hey make sure VE and maybe even bugs votes in the voting thread. I think I'm done for now and will probably be back after midnight, or sunday afternoon depending on what I do tonight.
Erandorr & strongandbig: I don't think we are accomplishing much with our discussion right now so I'll stop now. I think we have to filter out everyone else in light of the WBG issue first, since even if he is scum there are 4 more, and we need to keep in mind future leads.
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I've skimmed the thread, will drop some thoughts and flesh them out later tonight when I have more time.
On August 06 2012 04:56 Hier wrote:+ Show Spoiler [giant case on Talis] +Talismania:Honestly, I don’t know your alignment. But some interesting points that will have me pondering over are the following. 1) You ask two people, directly, what their opinions are of various players (including each other!) 2 hours after the game starts and before you even offer any reads yourself. + Show Spoiler [Erandorr] +On August 04 2012 00:06 talismania wrote:
Erandorr what do you think of Glasse?
(again)
also, what do you think of toad and VE? On August 04 2012 00:08 talismania wrote:
yo toad what you make of erandorr, glasse, VE, wbg? 2) Then you dump this on us: On August 04 2012 04:37 talismania wrote:
yep zeph is scummy for exactly why sloosh says. erandorr I thought was for a bit but I don't understand masoning wbg from a scum pov. jinglehell is town, lazer is town, strongandbig is town. toad I thought was scum at first because of the timing of his patented color text post but he's just been being generally rather toady, which is to say he makes really strange (from my perspective) conclusions about what's good in the setup and what's not with strange (again from my perspective) reasoning behind it. Glasse I thought was hilariously obviously scummy. Like so blatant I honestly don't know what to think. Guess I should go dig up another game of his. So you blindly agree with Sloosh without any afterword, and you label Jinglebell, Lazer, and SnB town aligned without any explanation whatsoever. Looks more like filler. 3) You go fishing for roles and alignments. On August 04 2012 05:13 talismania wrote:
ps can people post their character names? I just want to satisfy my curiosity to find out who is in the game - I know that they don't mean anything since I'm VT with Henry Francis. Although I will LOL if scum has Ted Chaugh and Putnam, Powell, Lowe etc. And if WBG is veteran since Roger comes back from a heart attack in the first season. 4) Keep tunnelling. + Show Spoiler [Constant questions without much else] +On August 04 2012 07:13 talismania wrote:
zeph and toad, thoughts on the other? On August 05 2012 04:46 talismania wrote:
Toad what do you think about glasse's and dropula's votes?
Completely cool with you? On August 06 2012 04:11 talismania wrote:
strongandbig and VE what do you think of the other? On August 06 2012 04:20 talismania wrote:
uh the only other read I see in your filter is about grush. Do you still think he is scum? Do you think anyone else is scum? How do you respond to what strongandbig said? 5) Finally you are just assuming Sloosh is town and order medics to protect him. On August 05 2012 10:27 talismania wrote:
Ok so
1) Medics protect sloosh tonight. If I were mafia I would kill him. He's always Captain America with the town, gathering votes together, keeping things on track. He's active and has generally solid analysis. Plus he's on me, so him dying makes it easy to push my lynch, and then boom two active townies are down the drain. So protect him.
I’m not completely confident on your alignment, none of this is conclusive for me, but come on; you need to sell your town play better.
I want to lynch Hier for this post. He prefaces his case by saying he doesn't know talis' alignment, so what's the point of it? He points out 5 different things that he finds scummy / weird and nothing at all that indicates he should think talis is town. He ends by reiterating his hesitation, twice, and then gives talis advice that he should do a better job being town. Exudes uncertainty ("not completely confident") and confidence ("you need to sell your town play better") in the same line. Classic contradiction I'd vig / lynch into.
SnB, I think I was pretty transparent that my ultimate preference is that we consolidate a lynch on either prplhz or talismania over WBG. Both looked scummy, and I was fine lynching both. I didn't find talis vastly or concretely more scummy than prplhz, if that is what you are interpreting from my post.
On that note: Detectives Don't Check Masons
I'm sure you guys are competent enough, but just in case it slips your mind, don't check masons unless you think they are lying about being masons (i.e. 2 scum faking mason interaction).
I will also be rereading talis for spewing out more anti-town advice. Thread direction is very important to note and I'd encourage everyone to keep it in mind as they reread thread.
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Yea, so I reread the whole thread from the start. Here's what I got:
Talismania is tomorrow's lynch. He has continued to ask inane questions, pursue irrelevant topics, and the problem is that people are actually getting distracted in responding to him. He has under the guise of ignorance tried to pass off anti town advice and is feigning contribution when it really is meaningless activity.
Other good scum candidates I picked up combing through thread were
BioSC
Hier
Lazermonkey
VE is maybe 3rd tier. Unless he has a strong showing tomorrow I'd chalk him up scum using mason as an excuse for thread inactivity.
Reminder to detectives that you are ROLE cops, not ALIGNMENT cops. That is, checking masons are a waste of an investigation. Vigs should aim to shoot scum. SCUM. Shooting lurker is not ok unless you have reasonable belief that he is scum, because frankly we have too many and you will probably end up hitting a lazy townie.
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On August 06 2012 09:13 Lazermonkey wrote:
But arguing that shooting grush tonight because he has a 76% of flipping town is stupid.
Not only did I not argue for this at all, but the statement itself is very foolish. Vigs take note.
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Bahaha totally forgot the deadline. Good luck town and obs please!
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EPT
