EPTMad Men Mafia - Page 2
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
You aren't lynching WBG solely because grush57 is worse, and not in the scummy sense but just as an overall player? If we had a double lynch / grush was replaced or something, would you lynch WBG or would you just default to another lurker? Because right now all I see is you don't want to vote WBG even as you concede that he is scummy / suspicious. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 03:49 BioSC wrote: What I want is people to at least discuss the fact that no one wants to talk about Grush because he's "Always Useless". In a game where votes matter and reasons for voting are just as important, we are letting him get away with doing nothing because its easy to just let him be useless and not discuss it. Obviously, I'm in the minority with regards to Grush. I can see that. I just don't want this game to devolve into letting people post like that with no questions whatsoever. Yes, I can see how people thought he was scummy. His handling of the mason discussion could have been better. I was withholding my vote to see if Errandor/Bugs would post their mason logs. As of yet, it hasn't happened. I'm just saying that perhaps there are better targets than him. Well the hypocrisy here is that you are letting WBG get away with doing something because it's easy to go after "easy" targets. This isn't about lynching between WBG and grush57, it's about lynching the one you think will most likely flip scum. Do you think grush has a greater chance of flipping scum than WBG? If so, vote him and argue for it. If not, then reconsider your stance. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
PM dialogue shows what I think is legitimate frustration, a higher degree of consistency (since you talk in real time), and fits in with what he has said in the thread. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 04:09 Toadesstern wrote: I don't really know what to make of the pm-log. I agree with slOosh that it looks to be genuine but I still don't understand why. It's like "BAM I'm here and fuck you" out of nowhere. So I don't really get why they had this mud fight. I don't see a reason to be that insulting in the thread and I don't see a reason to be like that in the log either. There's a couple of things in there I'm having problems with, like the one I just quoted in my most recent post. He is pissed off, and consistently so. I don't mind him calling the player base awful since I don't think it's a high level base, and with the several people I'm unsure with I find their play this game lackluster. He does his meta thing with grush, but that is consistent with his play throughout the months - he likes meta and he uses it well. I dislike meta since it's hard for me to use, and I guess the conflict arises when he calls grush obv scum, we can't see it and then he gets mad that we can't see something that is so obvious to him. However I don't want to do what I see as a lurker lynch. Also he spends 1 hr arguing with Erandorr. 1 hr. Trying to convince him (Erandorr) that he (WBG) is town. This is like ... what a town would do. In any case it addresses the major concern I had with WBG, which is he doesn't care about the lynch, and the PMs show that he does care, just in a way that it is difficult for me to immediately understand. I agree with his (WBG) mason stuff as I mentioned before so everything checks out. Now it is a matter of picking out who to lynch: I'm deciding between prplhz and talis, both who have done crap to be associated with the WBG lynch, i.e. if WBG flips town then they are free from blame and get to point more fingers. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Unvote: Wherebugsgo | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) I think you are town and rules say you can't vote yourself. Do you think talis could be town? Because I want to vote him or prplhz and am willing to do all the legwork to get town to do it. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Vote: Talismania | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote: if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 04:57 Toadesstern wrote: what about this? We lynch Mr 95% mafia: Prplhz I said he's mafia. Erandorr seems to agree, WBG posted most recently that he thinks prplhz is mafia as well, sloOsh thinks prplhz is mafia and prplhz thinks WBG is town, which is REALLY odd unless he wants to tell people later "told ya", which is one of the reasons I am questioning the wbg lynch. If Prplhz flips mafia we're all happy. If Prplhz flips town we lynch/shoot WBG + talis I don't understand your aversion to the talis lynch. We already got some votes on him, and he has been at the top of your scum list from the start of the game. Any reason why you want to do it in this specific order? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
WBG is town as town can be. I'd totally back a d2 prplhz lynch too (or n1 shot but I aint no vig  ) | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Since it seems like the greater consensus is prplhz as scum, I will move my vote to him. VE is going to have to come back and cast his vote in the voting thread anyway. This way we have the best chance of lynching prplhz. ##Unvote: talismania ##Vote: prplhz | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 05:27 Toadesstern wrote: if one of them had to be mafia? A or B. I consider it highly likely that mafia would mason someone who says "I'm against outing masons" like I did instead of masoning someone else. So if there's only 4 masons in the game I'd say it's quite likely that one of those 2 who masoned me is mafia. However I don't know how many masons there are. I know of 4 and I wasn't the only one who said he's not going to out masons. I'm going to post logs prior to the n1 deadline though. If someone else. who happened to be very vocal about not outing masons got masoned as well and we have a "Mason C" somewhere or even a "Mason D" not using his mason power that might change the whole assumption. If we only have 4 masons one of the 2 guys on me has to be mafia imo but there's no reason to believe there are only 4 masons in this game right now. Or at least nothing that indicates that it's that way and I don't plan on lynching 2 mason for the lulz just to figure out there was a 5th mason. Just discern what they are trying to accomplish with their PMs whether they are trying to sway the lynch one direction over the other etc. Because I really want to lynch talis but more important than that is that we consolidate our votes and hit either prplhz or talis. Or WBG if you really, really, really still think he is scum. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote: forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 05:48 strongandbig wrote: Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze. I understand where you are coming from, and if that's general town consensus then maybe it is best if WBG died so we clear up the air. I would disagree with that but that doesn't accomplish anything, namely getting the lynch I want in prplhz or talismania. So between you and me let's talk D2 lynch. talismania has outed Toad's masons (and I don't think the Toad claimed them prior), and has called out a potential mason tie between me and countdropula. Do you find him guilty of scum on those grounds? And thoughts on prplhz' general play thus far. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Lynch prplhz. His filter shows no desire to actually scumhunt. His positioning on WBG is opportunistic and doesn't actually do anything to either move the lynch forward or stop it. Cases have been made before: On August 04 2012 04:30 Toadesstern wrote: Okay so I'm doing this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=14#264 and prplhz answers with this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=14#265 I considered his post reasonable. My post had nothing in it other than some colored names. The normal reaction should be "why?" and he did that. Next thing he does is this himself after "calling me out" on my first post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=15#295 As mentioned. I obviously thought this is a joke or some reaction fishing to test how glasse reacts or wether or not some idiots join in and yell "yeah, let's lynch that mofu! Totally agree". Why I thought it has to be a joke? Look at glasse's filter. The guy had 3 posts back then. Two posts that read nothing to me and one I actually liked. His "case" involves all 3 posts glass did: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=15#299 1st post: I have never played with glasse and it's his first post. It's useless. No shit sherloc. Let's check the first post of some guys and you'll realize that most stuff is useless or even trollish. 2nd post: I kind of agree with what prplhz posted here, however as mentioned I never played with glasse. If this guy is a vet I never heard about, that's a bad post. If this guy is some new guy, like I care lol 3rd post: I actually liked that post and considered it a possibility myself. WBG could have made both things up, knowing that at least VE was not around to get some reactions. I don't see that as undermining WBG at all. It's saying "hey guys, let's not get to much into this and wait until we get a confirmation from VE and Eran on this". That's reasonable. So again, I considered this to be a joke and thought prplhz is fishing for reactions because there's no way he actually thinks that way imo. But he admitted he actually meant what he posted so that's really weird. On August 04 2012 04:50 slOosh wrote: Mmm yea, I'd agree with you on the Glasse. Voting first and giving an explanation afterward when asked of the suspect seems backward to me. Furthermore, I dunno why he called me out - I played like junks the game he mentioned so why my input was absolutely necessary seems like a diversion if anything. In either case I'm interested in his updated thoughts so I'll wait on those. He has no thoughts. He has no contributions. He doesn't care about today's lynch. He is scum. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 06:18 Erandorr wrote: Could you guys also please look at the "fight" where i try really hard to actually do stuff and he insults me about 100 times. It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots". The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy. Because I think what he did was fine. Am I supporting a scummy thought? I don't think so. It's just different. Several of us (me, Toad, VE) have moved on with varying opinions on WBG. I ask you to do the same. Consider prplhz and talismania. If you still think WBG is scum that's fine, but let's focus as a town and get some discussion on prplhz and talismania, because regardless of today's lynch they are serious contenders for d2 lynch. | ||
| ||
