EPT/in I will not be replaced
I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
/in I will not be replaced | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgoLbFr8c0_7dE5tVW1DNEttX3hTWFNVWEwzSzBfV1E#gid=0 (None of my experiments working = bored/lazy scientist = the above) _____________ Sadly I have no grand ideas for this game. I was going to suggest that instead of everyone encrypting their role (see bastard 2 for original proposal) we have everyone breadcrumb their role (essentially, do it yourself encryption) but I know no one would do that anyway. Beyond that, millers if you're out there, come on out. No reason to hide since it seems cops are sane and always gives people something to talk about/react to. I kinda think a roleblocker should come out too, with the idea being that a jailkeeper protects him (and scum don't know if there is or isn't a jailkeeper and doesn't know to risk a hit or not) and simultaneously removes the roleblock annoyance from the equation + makes it so if someone does get roleblocked we know scum has a roleblocker too. And I think that's important setup info since if this c9++ thing is to be believed then a scum roleblocker means there's at least 3 scum (unless wbg has strayed a long way away from that wiki). If roleblocker does exist but doesn't want to come out then I kindly request he not use his power at all until it makes sense. | ||
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talismania
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On July 12 2012 07:47 gonzaw wrote: For instance here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321159¤tpage=55#1100 And all the discussion from before in that thread and shit (couldn't find another game where the whole "masons claim on D1" thing was explained thoroughly though  ).lol how did you do that? (off-topic) By hand copying and pasting into an online character counter. If I knew how to program I would have made a script but alas. I got accused of being scum in ssb (hi s&b!) and I actually felt (at least early on) that I was posting sort of like I did as scum even though I was town and felt guilt about it. So I thought I would compare my games with numbers to see if there were any noticeable differences in my posting patterns. Then if there were I thought I could use this technique on people in the games going forward. But at least for me there weren't any noticeable patterns except for the fact that when I'm town I post more (or when I'm scum I post less) which I guess isn't that surprising. Other people might be different though. | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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On July 12 2012 08:05 austinmcc wrote: Screw the number and size of posts. I'm not a scientist, but it looks like talismania's been town --> scum --> town --> scum --> town. Therefore, he's scum this game. I know that millers are supposed to claim D1, but I don't see why we'd want claims on other roles right now. Except from marv, who needs to let us know whether he's a vigi or scum this game, since those are the only roles that he rolls. heh it's actually out of order, real order is town, scum, scum, town, town (PYPr, PYP, BBM2, Bastard2, SSB64) =P | ||
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talismania
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hell if we have millers, masons, and a rber in public this game shouldn't be that hard. Course if we had all those we probably wouldn't have doctors or medics so ups and downs I suppose. | ||
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talismania
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since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). | ||
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talismania
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jailkeepers, same difference. That makes me realize though that my point earlier about figuring out the scum team's size/comp wasn't correct. If a town RB is in public doesn't use his power, but someone else claimed RB'd, it could simply be because they were protected by a jailkeeper, not that there is a scum RB. | ||
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talismania
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anyhoo I think it's kind of hilarious that literally everyone commented on it. I mean speaking of scum blending in "I agree with everyone else that talis' plan isn't good" from like ten people. And the only one who didn't go "oh that's shit" was gonzaw. Which to be honest makes me lean town on him - he comes out with three names right off the bat for a decent reason at least for that early in the game. I feel a scum player would have been more cautious. Marv shitting on the plan was fairly predictable. I read his "let's lynch talis" for it though as more out of pique than as part of a cunning scum plan though. | ||
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talismania
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@matt what about you? You shit on it just like everyone else. | ||
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Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan (for those who care) + Show Spoiler + marvellosity On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over) I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. gonzaw On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. Actually follows the plan - as I said seems rather townie. Especially the timing. Mattchew On July 12 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote: Also, talis has the worst plan ever with his 3 people thing. That just allows people to half ass push some stupid reads and then connections theories run wild and everything turns to shit shits on it solstice On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around... why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? I actually don't see him reacting to it at all yet he asks keirathi about it. Interesting. He did react to gonzaw's post reacting to mine. austinmcc On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Keirathi On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote: Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said. Mmm I think this is innocuous. He might not even have responded if he hadn't been asked to. DropBear On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. Actually this doesn't sit that well with me at all. Conversation had started to move on and then he brings it back to my plan and says the same shit everyone else did. I also don't like his misrepresentation of my views on the roleblocker's use of their power. strongandbig On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote: Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He's right about me always pushing this idea althoguh I think he's overreacting to marv's reaction. So actually not that many people commented on it even though I thought like everyone did oops. My views: scummy responses: austinmcc, dropbear null responses: marv, mattchew, keirathi, strongandbig townie response: gonzaw did not respond directly although was in the thread: Risen, sciberbia, solstice | ||
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talismania
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On July 12 2012 15:14 DropBear wrote: People have in fact said that it shouldn't be used period. Gonzaw talismania Yo so this isn't true at all. I've been very clear from the beginning that I think the roleblocker should not use their power unless they have a clear shot with it or the situation demands it. Essentially, don't use it N1 or N2, then proceed cautiously. | ||
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talismania
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On July 13 2012 00:47 Mattchew wrote: so me explaining why it is bad doesnt differentiate me from marv, keirathi, strongandbig well you added different reasons for why you thought it was bad but that doesn't move you into the townie or scum camps in my mind so you're still null. | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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talismania
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now to digest the rest of that post... | ||
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talismania
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I mean the point still remains: don't use it early because it doesn't make sense then. Use it later when you have a good read or the situation demands. | ||
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talismania
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On July 13 2012 01:40 DropBear wrote: I spent the entirety of bastard 2 arguing with a brick wall i.e. Acrofales. I can't even remember this plan you speak of lol. It was the part where I said I was a dayvig and everyone had to make a case or I shot you if you didn't. And then I ended up shooting scum. | ||
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talismania
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On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote: ##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? | ||
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talismania
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On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote: Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially? What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about? then I don't see you calling him suspicious, but just asking him questions. Implied suspicion I'll give you, but not calling him out as being suspicious by any means. Also good to know you're just as angry as in bastard 2 :-) | ||
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dropbear what's your response to this (below)? The way I see it, you made a post asking vivax some questions with some implied suspicion maybe. Then marv votes vivax and you eagerly hop on the wagon. When called out, you say you called him out for being suspicious the page earlier, but the only post you made in reference to him was just the one where you asked him questions. You never actually called him out for being suspicious as you said. On July 13 2012 03:04 talismania wrote: if you mean this then I don't see you calling him suspicious, but just asking him questions. Implied suspicion I'll give you, but not calling him out as being suspicious by any means. Also good to know you're just as angry as in bastard 2 :-) | ||
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talismania
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On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote: Lets kill talis, Keirathi or scib Talis cause he's proposing anti town plans and then backpeddling super fast Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced scib cause he seems hesitant to post, and he posts this (it was spoilered) as he has not pushed a single read yet loooool I love how you shit on my plan and then literally followed it to the T in that post. Three reads, one sentence explanation, at 24 hours into the game. :-) In response to your blurb on me I think "backpeddling super fast" twists my words. I posted a half-assed plan expecting it to get shot down but knowing it would probably generate discussion. don't see how analyzing the reactions means I'm backpeddling. What's with your needling of me in general? I ignored the "are you just active lurker" post at first but maybe keirathi is onto something with you. ____________ I'd prefer austin or dropbear, leaning dropbear. I don't like milkton's last post either. There's a touch of omgus to my feelings there but I also think his argument he just made about me doesn't make much sense. Although come to think of it I dunno why he would come in out of the cold and start making a case on me does seem a bit random as scum. austin's reply to my poke at his post was rather overwrought which fits with my model of him as nervous scum but I guess that could just be the way the guy is too. solstice you said you know him - what do you make of it? | ||
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talismania
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first as to this "two-part" business - the second part was not planned at all from the beginning. That was more of a lemonade from lemons let's see if there's anything there. If I misrepresented your post then I misrepresented it I guess? You had a few more facets in there than mattchew + marv but again why add those, especially when you acknowledge in the same post that my plan is bad "which seems to be the general sentiment" (paraphrase). Again it's less about what you say and more the fact that you said stuff at all, and how you said the stuff that seems out of place to me. secondly, wtf is voting for me without even calling me scum? All you say is that my plan is bad, ergo vote (that's my understanding I hope i'm not misrepresenting again). what? Like, show me as town why you make that oversight - failing to actually connect the dots at the end from "here's the behavior and here's why it makes him scum". Did you just forget or something? | ||
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talismania
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On July 13 2012 09:02 austinmcc wrote: *snip* I want to see more, stuff unrelated to the plan. There's somewhere you and I agree. I'll have my impressions/notes on everyone in the game prepared tomorrow morning. (GF coming home now). @marv: nice shit. solstice was pretty on point activity-wise in ssb64 despite being kind of wrong the whole game (he did get better late game). He simply hasn't been around this game that much. Very curious to see what he thinks of the austin situation since he claims he can read austin so well. | ||
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talismania
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DropBear I think he is scum for two reasons. 1) The timing with which he bashes my plan. Everyone else had already bashed it. If you look at that post, what possible purpose does it serve? It's not adding anything to the discussion, it's just prolonging it unnecessarily. On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. 2) Weird tone. He was an aggressive player when I played with him last, but didn't get feisty (the "angry koala" as acrofales dubbed him) until he was threatened with a lynch. He's been ornery and disruptive this entire game and I can't figure out why. Plus when he was angry before, it was righteous anger. This feels like sarcastic, trollish ribbing. Examples below: On July 12 2012 15:00 DropBear wrote: Hello everyone. I strongly disagree with town roleblocker being forced to claim, let alone not using their power. Having been one in past games that actually managed to block mafia KP I can testify to the usefulness of using this power. With the added possibility of jailkeeper and mafia roleblocker any claim could be complete bogus anyway and would be very difficult to verify. If you are town roleblocker do not claim! One thing I would like to say about how we go about things, please don't overpost. Say what you need to say and shut up. Be concise and clear. This does not mean don't post, nor does it mean don't post often. It means don't post crap that doesn't need to be said. Stuff like this isn't necessary and clogs up your filter, please don't do it. On July 12 2012 18:09 DropBear wrote: You're just mad that I think your idea on the roleblocker is bad and your cases are bad. On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote: I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? On July 13 2012 17:01 DropBear wrote: I'll defend Milton for you  He started late so hasn't posted as much. We knew that was happening before the games started. Your point 1 directly helps people get a read on him. This is extremely positive town play. In your point 2, you say how the plan allows pointless posting and how that doesn't help town, but then turn around and lambast Milton for pointing this out. Contradiction much? There is no real pressure from talismania on austin at all. Milton is right, talismania IS only defending the plan and not committing to accusations. Three reads is enough for day 1, no? Posting your read on every single person is just clutter. You should be less obvious in defending your buddy. SCUM TEAM Vivax talismania (the entire tone of the above post)^ What makes the timing of that post and his tone scummy? Well both are unnecessary, both are disruptive and create an anti-town atmosphere, and, in the case of this response to my plan, it is essentially just an excuse to add filler to his filter. Look like contributing without actually contributing. He's also had a relatively narrow focus, only looking at vivax and me. And really he was only looking at vivax, but then somehow in his last post I got shoehorned into the picture, perhaps to give him cover to vote for me later on. austinmcc scummy shit: 1) his first post. Ok fine - I'll give it to him that he added a bit to what mattchew and marv had said. But again it's not about that, it's about why people post and how they do it. On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Why pile on, when you already acknowledge that it is "the general sentiment"? It's just adding filler to his filter, and padding for the other part of his post. This is classic scum stuff to try and add extra stuff to their posts so they don't get accused of doing nothing but, say, asking rambling stuff about gonzaw. 2) The other thing I've already pointed out that he hasn't really addressed. He is voting for me. He posted a 5-paragraph essay before doing so. But he never actually said I was scum. I pointed this out, he just rehashes what he already said, but never actually connects the dots and explains why he thinks all that stuff that I've done makes me scum. Combined with the timing of this accusation, it makes me think he's simply trying to start momentum for my lynch, taking off on what milkton did (and milkton, despite having bs reasoning, at least connected the dots). Austin omits that crucial step because he's not thinking like a town player. He's just thinking about who he needs to get his vote onto. On July 13 2012 08:05 austinmcc wrote: *snip* (1) 90% of people hadn't already stated why it was bad. Look at Talis's little summary of people who commented. It's 7 people long, and one of them is him misinterpreting your post. That's not 90% of the thread. (2) Again, I'm not saying why the plan was bad. I'm trying to say that he's incorrect in saying I didn't add anything. I think he's really stretching what people have said to try and make it seem like Part 2 of the plan was somehow helpful, when really it's not. ##Vote: Talismania I don't buy this two-part plan nonsense, and I don't think it's helpful at all. First off his points 1 and 2 are kinda bs. I'll give him that he added a little bit, and I already said way back that not as many people replied as I thought did before I went and analyzed it. It's not me twisting things when I'm freely admitting when I've exaggerated or whatever. Secondly, it's like he's voting me because... I'm unhelpful. What? ______________________ My thoughts on everyone else: + Show Spoiler + Mattchew: I dub mattchew "the poker-prodder". He keeps poking and prodding people. He's ultimately a null tell for me, as he is in every game I've ever seen him in. For a second I had him on my scummy list because of his "hey are you just actively lurking" post until now when I've re-read his filter and seen him poking at everyone. I am a bit surprised he's not voting for me - I think as scum he would have done that by now especially when he called me out like he did. I also have a question for you, Mattchew: On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote: Gonzaw's start to like every game ![[image loading]](http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/493583_o.gif) But I love his effort, just hate reading EVERYTHING he posts. Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me What ever happened to your thoughts about austin? You never mention him again in your filter after this. Risen: I agree with what solstice just said about his style. It's sort of impossible to read given his pre-game determination to change it. That said, his content has been incredibly lacking. He made his vote too early, he didn't explain it. Actually reading through his filter now he does seem really sketchy. Interested to see if and how he changes his vote today. solstice: I really like the case marv made on him, actually, but for some reason I don't know if I can move beyond a null on him. Like I think the first half of his filter is scummy (the part marv showed), the second half townie. Overall he is playing fairly relaxed, which is usually a town indicator as well. On the other hand he's also been fairly focused on just a couple players, which is a scum indicator. gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum. marvellosity: Marv. How is it possible that he posts so much but I always forget he's in the game? It's not like his posts are bad they're usually pretty on point. I've never played against him as scum so I dunno what he does then, but his filter so far looks fairly like his town filters from the games I've played with him. He tends to have a lot of targets and switch frequently, often correcting himself as town and I see that here as well. Vivax: Never played with him before. He's sort of in the solstice camp actually. First half of the filter is scummy. Especially the part where marv asked him to explain his feelings on matt and he was just like "here's filter do it yourself" LOL. On the other hand I like what he says about Milkton. On the third hand he's also playing rather focused. Null. sciberbia: Sciberbia I am your biggest fan. I love the way you post. I have no idea what your alignment is but if everyone posted like you this game would be easy. Keirathi: Well he's conditional town or conditional scum at this point. Like I think he was way too neutral in the beginning as someone else pointed out but he's also onto dropbear as I am. Milktonkram: I think his case and vote on me are bs bs bs... but incredibly random. Like I don't know why he does that as scum. I actually can't figure him out at all to be honest. strongandbig: dear god this is tiring to make lol no wonder no one ever follows my plans. Anyway. I think he's playing pretty freely. I think he was scum in space station? He was more uptight then. ##vote: DropBear | ||
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talismania
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On July 14 2012 01:39 marvellosity wrote: quick question tali - what pushes you to Dropbear rather than austin? actually that is a decent question. I originally ranked them that way in my head from way back when I analyzed reactions to my posts and it sort of has stuck since then. Mmm I guess thinking it over I can't think of a fantastic reason for one over the other to be honest with you. | ||
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talismania
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On July 14 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote: I'll just leave this scum filter here. Bear in mind this was a PM game, so that was merely half his effort. I'm not saying he's scum because of it, but please do not assume he is town through effort, that's totally null alignment-wise for gonzaw. holy shit haha. How much free time do you have gonzaw?? | ||
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talismania
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Riven v Vivax and Milton and austin changed their minds is all I see skimming through. | ||
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On July 14 2012 02:51 DropBear wrote: WOLOLOLOLOL nice OMGUS tali! So I'm aggressive? Did you forget Bastard 2 already? When I shouted and screamed to kill only 2 players the entire time I was alive? Plus the examples you give of me being disruptive and aggressive are just firm statements. How is strongly disagreeing being disruptive and trollish? And narrow focused? It's better to focus on a couple of people than splurge shit on EVERYONE like you have done wouldn't you say? Your case on me positively REEKS of being manufactured. I have to say I wasn't sure what kind of response I would get from you but this is a bit over the top. 1) You were aggressive in bastard 2 only after people wanted you lynched. Beforehand I found you quite reasonable. And I honestly thought you were town the whole time that game - this game there's something different. 2) Your point about focusing involves the kind of obvious false choice that typically only scum would post without thinking twice about it. Id est that the opposite of focusing is "splurging shit". No, the opposite of focusing is considering many different options, asking questions of other players, replying to cases made on people you aren't thinking about, etc etc. Furthermore what I did, listing all my thoughts/impressions is not exactly splurging shit. It was a concise look at everyone in the game and hopefully illustrative. FYI, the line between strongly disagreeing and being disruptive and trollish is somewhere between "I think your case is bad and here's why" and "you've just been splurging shit". | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:15 Keirathi wrote: I'm leaning towards a vote on either Risen or DropBear. Risen + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote: For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote: EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. He's being extremely non-commital. Unlike Vivax, I'm not going to make a case that this was a scumslip, but it doesn't make much sense and doesn't really say what he thinks about the situation. Then: + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 16:38 Risen wrote: Yes, this is going places. I like your thinking. I just like your style, my dude. You have my vote! ##vote: Vivax This vote could be forgiven if I had a read on him as townie, since it was a bit out of the blue for Vivax to vote S&B, but he hasn't done anything to push pro-town sentiment yet, so this is a suspiciously easy case to jump on and get a bandwagon. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 04:06 Risen wrote: Reading through I'm thinking vivax/keirathi/s0Lstice(or gonzaw) team. I'm not as confident on s0Lstice, though. I think he's actually reading me based on my meta, which is fine day1 since there isn't much else to go off of. Keirathi's soft defense of my strongest scum read makes me really weary of him. Vivax, of course, is my strongest scum read and I'm having a pretty difficult time believing that a town gonzaw would defend him. Looks like my vote will be staying on Vivax. I really thought austin's case on me that concluded with a town read was just scummy b/c seriously who goes into that much detail just to end up buddying me? (Goes to the whole, he knows I'm town and therefor just found some stuff in my past games to support his "town-read" case) I'll be gathering everything on Vivax into a single post, but I really don't think we should be lynching anyone else. So I'm confused. You make a read that the scumteam is Vivax, me, and solstice, but you go on to make a case against austin? So do you think austin's town read on your is scummy or not? You certainly make it sound like you think it is, but he isn't in your scumteam. I don't get it. DropBear I still think his vote on Vivax was suspicious, but that's been talked to death, so I'll continue. Along with tali, I feel like he was been entirely overaggressive and disruptive with thinks like + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote: I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? However, with Risen being my strongest read right now, this really bothers me: Maybe a scum wouldn't just outright defend a teamate like that on day1, but its such a flimsy reason that it feels like he could get away with it later if they are both scum. Last point: he really hasn't made much of a case on Vivax despite voting him and continuing to vote him. His only posts that even mention Vivax at all: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote: Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially? What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about? On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote: ##Vote Vivax On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote: I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? On July 13 2012 17:01 DropBear wrote: I'll defend Milton for you He started late so hasn't posted as much. We knew that was happening before the games started. Your point 1 directly helps people get a read on him. This is extremely positive town play. In your point 2, you say how the plan allows pointless posting and how that doesn't help town, but then turn around and lambast Milton for pointing this out. Contradiction much? There is no real pressure from talismania on austin at all. Milton is right, talismania IS only defending the plan and not committing to accusations. Three reads is enough for day 1, no? Posting your read on every single person is just clutter. You should be less obvious in defending your buddy. SCUM TEAM Vivax talismania On July 14 2012 02:40 DropBear wrote: HOST YOU MISSED MY VOTE FOR VIVAX I am not going to be here for lynch time, it's 4am my time. I am voting for Vivax still. I would like to see the lynch between him and talismania. I do not support a Milton lynch. I have already said this. I do not support a Risen lynch. He stated that he is busy and I liked some of his earlier stuff once he got past filler about smilies. On July 14 2012 02:55 DropBear wrote: This aimed at gonzaw. Made perfect sense, the thread was barely 4 pages old and gonzaw was saying people were lurking. This because Vivax is scum. There's not a case in there, just a lot of saying Vivax is scum without any reasoning to back it up. Pre-post edit: @austin - regarding Vivax, his early play being in the spotlight, plus him being Crazy(TM) as town (in Newbie XVIII he fake claimed DT as town, and even though he was right, cost us a lot of timer arguing and would have lost us the game if he was wrong), I just feel like for now that he's reasonably townie. On July 14 2012 05:34 marvellosity wrote: already commented on Vivax, see above I said earlier I didn't want to lynch Dropbear, now I'm not so sure. He's pushing Vivax on the basis of practically nothing, and he came out strongly defending Milton - I believe others thought scum wouldn't do this - only because he was having an argument with his scumread Vivax He also says Keirathi is a strong townread with no explanation. What have we got to hold Dropbear accountable for so far?? Can you guys just vote DropBear? We need to get some momentum together to avoid the nolynch. | ||
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[B]On July 14 2012 05:29 austinmcc wrote: For now, my vote's going on solstice. Something really bugs me about him finding my early game to match my townie play. Yes, the length is always there, but my early posts were a mess. Gonzaw's right about that, marv is right that they look off. I wasn't pressured at all really in my newbie games, barring XIII which was just an odd game to play in. I think my response to a little pressure here was way off, because while I normally post lengthy, it's not so disorganized and jumbled. Concerned that he didn't pick up on that. That little thing keeps nagging at me enough that I'm willing to vote him. ##Vote: Solstice Marv's post reminded me of this. Are you actually voting for solstice because he didn't call you out for being scummy? | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:04 Risen wrote: You're tunneling. I'm telling you you're tunneling. Just look at viv's recent posting. I'm serious. It is that bad, but no one in this thread seems to be giving it any credit beyond "oh he's playing to his crazy town meta" I'm tunneling too, though. I honestly think my case is stronger than yours tali. Do you feel your case on drop is stronger than my case on viv? I dunno. I'm starting to think my case on austin is actually stronger than my case on dropbear was in the first place to be perfectly honest. However milton and keirathi also brought up good points on dropbear I think. Unless they were just trying to nudge a bandwagon along? Mmm shit. Where has gonzaw gone? I kinda expect him to be in here cracking the whip near deadline. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:32 marvellosity wrote: no-one's gonna come with me on austin? I kinda want to but I kinda don't. My feelings atm are that worst comes to worst, if I have to be wrong about someone I'd rather have a dead town dropbear than a dead town austin because at least austin seems to be trying. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:39 gonzaw wrote: I thought this was majority lynch...? Or is it plurality lynch? Lol are you trying to see how much of this stuff you can get away with or something? | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:58 sciberbia wrote: @marv well it only just became apparent he would be lynched. What do we lose from his claim? lol what do we gain | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:52 strongandbig wrote: of course he's not here he's in australia it's like four am like there are decent reasons to vote for him but that's not one of them i want everyone to seriously consider gonzaw for lynch tomorrow. Strongandbig what do you mean by "there are decent reasons to vote for dropbear" etc. I notice from your filter that you never really talk about dropbear much except for one post where you said you wanted to think more about him way in the beginning and a later post saying you might think about consolidating on him (but he was part of a list). What, in your mind, are those reasons? | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:42 sciberbia wrote: OK guys we have to lynch today! I think there is least resistance to a dropbear lynch. I'd be willing to consolidate on dropbear. Is anyone strongly opposed to a dropbear lynch? Same question to you as to strongandbig - you have no mention of dropbear up until now. obviously it was consolidation time, but what are your thoughts on him in general? | ||
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On July 14 2012 13:31 DropBear wrote: Oh wow how did I get so many votes? Sorry Vivax, but you did meander around a lot. I'm not keen on posting reads at night, too many WIFOM possibilities. I don't expect to be shot anyway due to the whole nearly getting lynched thing so I'll see the survivors in the morning. Very curious to see how this turns out. | ||
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I think you were wrong about one thing - I did comment on your setup posts in my big impressions post. The rest I kinda agree with. I honestly felt great about dropbear for the reasons I posted and because I smelled a bandwagon on me forming. Then milton and austin jumped off far too fast and I felt rather unsure of what was happening. Marv tempted me to jump off on austin but I felt like the majority would be easier on dropbear. At the same time risen took his chains off and went crazy. I liked the story he told with his case on vivax but none of that fit with my read on dropbear. | ||
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on the setup, I just re-read the wiki and you're not right about the Ts, Ts determine scum numbers. VT numbers are just whoever is left after assigning the rest of the roles I think | ||
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On July 15 2012 20:42 sciberbia wrote: *snip* fixation on his plan This has already been talked about in other cases; those of austinmcc and miltonkram I believe. It's a bit weird how wrapped up he gets in proposing his plan, defending his plan, and analyzing reactions to his plan. In particular, I find his assemblage of reactions suspicious: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote: Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan (for those who care) + Show Spoiler + marvellosity On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over) I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. gonzaw On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. Actually follows the plan - as I said seems rather townie. Especially the timing. Mattchew On July 12 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote: Also, talis has the worst plan ever with his 3 people thing. That just allows people to half ass push some stupid reads and then connections theories run wild and everything turns to shit shits on it solstice On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around... why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? I actually don't see him reacting to it at all yet he asks keirathi about it. Interesting. He did react to gonzaw's post reacting to mine. austinmcc On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Keirathi On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote: Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said. Mmm I think this is innocuous. He might not even have responded if he hadn't been asked to. DropBear On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. Actually this doesn't sit that well with me at all. Conversation had started to move on and then he brings it back to my plan and says the same shit everyone else did. I also don't like his misrepresentation of my views on the roleblocker's use of their power. strongandbig On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote: Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He's right about me always pushing this idea althoguh I think he's overreacting to marv's reaction. So actually not that many people commented on it even though I thought like everyone did oops. My views: scummy responses: austinmcc, dropbear null responses: marv, mattchew, keirathi, strongandbig townie response: gonzaw did not respond directly although was in the thread: Risen, sciberbia, solstice This just feels like one of those busy-work summaries that scum do to make it look like they are contributing. It also ties in with his insisting that his plan has promoted discussion. Overall, all this talk about the plan is unproductive and slightly suspicious. well fuck the plan to be honest. It did (and somehow continues) to promote discussion. Whether that discussion has been good or not is up for debate. If I get lynched because of it I'd say not lol. consistently wishy/washy Here are some examples of some wishy/washiness. Several of these raise yellow flags for me: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 07:54 talismania wrote:I don't like milkton's last post either. There's a touch of omgus to my feelings there but I also think his argument he just made about me doesn't make much sense. Although come to think of it I dunno why he would come in out of the cold and start making a case on me does seem a bit random as scum. austin's reply to my poke at his post was rather overwrought which fits with my model of him as nervous scum but I guess that could just be the way the guy is too. solstice you said you know him - what do you make of it? + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote: solstice: I really like the case marv made on him, actually, but for some reason I don't know if I can move beyond a null on him. Like I think the first half of his filter is scummy (the part marv showed), the second half townie. Overall he is playing fairly relaxed, which is usually a town indicator as well. On the other hand he's also been fairly focused on just a couple players, which is a scum indicator. Keirathi: Well he's conditional town or conditional scum at this point. Like I think he was way too neutral in the beginning as someone else pointed out but he's also onto dropbear as I am. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 01:43 talismania wrote: actually that is a decent question. I originally ranked them that way in my head from way back when I analyzed reactions to my posts and it sort of has stuck since then. Mmm I guess thinking it over I can't think of a fantastic reason for one over the other to be honest with you. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:00 talismania wrote: @risen I don't know what to make of the risen v vivax to be honest. I liked your case against him but I'm still stuck on dropbear. and if dropbear is scum I can't see vivax being scum either. mmm I better not be tunneling again like I did last time to HiroPro. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:08 talismania wrote: I dunno. I'm starting to think my case on austin is actually stronger than my case on dropbear was in the first place to be perfectly honest. However milton and keirathi also brought up good points on dropbear I think. Unless they were just trying to nudge a bandwagon along? Mmm shit. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:39 talismania wrote: I kinda want to but I kinda don't. My feelings atm are that worst comes to worst, if I have to be wrong about someone I'd rather have a dead town dropbear than a dead town austin because at least austin seems to be trying. especially that last one. seriously wtf.. What? Those are all my opinions I don't see what you're on about or why this is scummy or not. I don't like his approach to the lynch I feel like we were just lynching between a bunch of townies yesterday. If I had to guess, I'd say there is only 1 scum between our many lynch candidates: dropbear, vivax, miltonkram, s0Lstice, austinmcc, risen, and keirathi. So I think the mafia must have felt very at ease and not really cared too much who actually got lynched. Talis was just too calm in the hour leading up to the lynch. For example, what was he doing in between these two posts: + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:08 talismania wrote: I dunno. I'm starting to think my case on austin is actually stronger than my case on dropbear was in the first place to be perfectly honest. However milton and keirathi also brought up good points on dropbear I think. Unless they were just trying to nudge a bandwagon along? Mmm shit. Where has gonzaw gone? I kinda expect him to be in here cracking the whip near deadline. On July 14 2012 06:39 talismania wrote: I kinda want to but I kinda don't. My feelings atm are that worst comes to worst, if I have to be wrong about someone I'd rather have a dead town dropbear than a dead town austin because at least austin seems to be trying. This was a crucial 31 minutes. I don't think any of us actually had any idea who would end up being lynched at this time. But what was talis doing? Looks like he was just sitting around waiting for us to lynch a townie. In the last hour before the lynch, he really does nothing productive at all. He just says a bunch of neutralish things that don't really go anywhere. I was at work, working. And refreshing the thread. I agree with you and gonzaw though I should have done more to get dropbear lynched but the way the wagon completely left me and formed up on him threw me and I was doubting myself, especially after last game where I just tunneled HiroPro and more or less cost town the game because of it. I also have serious problems with this post just after we lynched vivax: For reference, here is the full extent of his defense on Vivax: Seriously? He says that he hopes he is "completely wrong" about vivax, but he hardly defended Vivax at all. If he really felt strongly about Vivax being town, he should have been positively shouting at people like me/marv/austin/strongandbig to put votes on dropbear instead of vivax, especially seeing as dropbear was supposedly his #1 scumread. But he was just saying useless shit like this: + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:39 talismania wrote: I kinda want to but I kinda don't. My feelings atm are that worst comes to worst, if I have to be wrong about someone I'd rather have a dead town dropbear than a dead town austin because at least austin seems to be trying. On July 14 2012 06:54 talismania wrote: argh wtf I don't want to swtich but I will if we need too. On July 14 2012 06:57 talismania wrote: jesus risen why are you so excited? According to what talis has said, he really thought dropbear was scum, and he really thought vivax was town. I was a hell of a lot less sure than talis supposedly was, and even I was more invested in the lynch. All of his posts leading up to the lynch seriously bother me. You're actually just not interpreting my posts correctly here. I was wishing I was completely wrong about dropbear, not vivax. If vivax flipped scum it means I was completely wrong about dropbear, because dropbear was on vivax for the shittiest reasons day one. I didn't mean that I hoped I was completely wrong about vivax being town. In fact I wasn't really sure at all what vivax was. I liked Risen's case on him but I still felt stronger about dropbear and dropbear was on vivax. I said this too I'm pretty sure I dunno how you missed it when you quoted like every single post I made. Oh yeah actually you did quote it even. throws suspicion on easy targets (my townreads) He throws suspicion on a bunch of easy targets: dropbear, austin, risen, s0Lstice, milton. In fact, he threw suspicion onto just about every lynch candidate, and onto nobody that was not a lynch candidate. His reads are just going with the flow. I feel like he is just gonzaw's parrot. He's quite friendly with both gonzaw and marv (people with most thread control IMO). does not defend his townreads He never makes an against-the-grain townread. In his entire filter, I don't think he defends anybody at all. He supposedly had townreads on vivax, strongandbig, and mattchew, all 3 of which were under fire at some point, and none of which he did any defending for. This is suspicious to me. Going with the flow? I started the flow on dropbear and austin as far as I'm concerned. Also, since when did I have townreads on vivax, strongandbig, and mattchew? 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On July 16 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote: This is case is so forced and bad. It is like he looked at the player list, and said i'll try to make a case against dropbear today so i can look townie to everyone! The first point is the timing of his response to Talis. Everyone responded to Talis's case including some LATER than Dropbear. Why is he treating Drop different from say S&B or anyone else that talked about his plan. NOT TO MENTION HE THEN GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT HIS PLAN AT LENGTH LATER IN HIS FILTER LOL. The second point is the most commonly used tactic by bad players to lynch someone they don't like. I think Gonzaw fell prey to this a little too, but I don't know if his intentions were the same. Talis is literally saying, you were mean and that could create a bad town atmosphere (which aggressive DOES NOT EQUAL scum) and I would hope both Talis and Gonzaw as town would know this. Since his vote on dropbear, he has been completely useless in the thread + Show Spoiler + (hur dur pot calling the kettle black) talismania is scum. let me get this straight. you do nothing day one except poke and prod at people. you show up near the lynch and ask when it's happening and all that but then somehow mysteriously disappear and leave your vote on sciberbia for some reason. btw you completely haven't even talked about this since it happened. you then come into the thread like nothing has happened and copy stuff everyone else has said about me and throw it together in a case. It's like you took austin's "he talks about his plan!" and dropbear's "your case is shit" and gonzaw's "you weren't around after you made a big post" and then finished it off with sciberbia's bold red text | ||
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talismania
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On July 16 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote: This is case is so forced and bad. It is like he looked at the player list, and said i'll try to make a case against dropbear today so i can look townie to everyone! The first point is the timing of his response to Talis. Everyone responded to Talis's case including some LATER than Dropbear. Why is he treating Drop different from say S&B or anyone else that talked about his plan. NOT TO MENTION HE THEN GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT HIS PLAN AT LENGTH LATER IN HIS FILTER LOL. The second point is the most commonly used tactic by bad players to lynch someone they don't like. I think Gonzaw fell prey to this a little too, but I don't know if his intentions were the same. Talis is literally saying, you were mean and that could create a bad town atmosphere (which aggressive DOES NOT EQUAL scum) and I would hope both Talis and Gonzaw as town would know this. Since his vote on dropbear, he has been completely useless in the thread + Show Spoiler + (hur dur pot calling the kettle black) talismania is scum. ok I guess I should actually respond to this too. 1) My case against dropbear was obviously not me looking down the playerlist. It stemmed from how unncessary his response to my plan was, and was bolstered by his different behavior early this game compared to early in the game before. 2) I wasn't "literally" saying what you say I was. He was being aggressive, he was promoting a bad atmosphere. What makes that scummy in his case was that in this game he was doing it from the get-go, where in the previous game I had with him he didn't do it until acrofales started getting on his case. This is the critical distinction I don't know why people are not recognizing it. 3) Pot calling the kettle black indeed. Actually half the people in this game were pots calling the kettle black if they're going to call me useless at the end of D1 (including gonzaw and sciberbia, who both disappeared and showed up with like half an hour to go). I'll say again that I agree I could have done more to get dropbear lynched but at the time I wasn't entirely sure of what was going on. It's not like I did nothing. I asked keirathi and marv to put their votes on him (and I'm still confused marv didn't) and I thought both sciberbia and gonzaw were going to come down on dropbear's side as well based on what they posted. It honestly wasn't until the last five minutes it became clear it was vivax. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 16 2012 03:08 DropBear wrote: Going back to look at yesterday's finaly votecount, these are a couple of things that interest me. Mattchew and Solstice stayed out of the lynch entirely. Their votes were throwaways. Solstice has been very quiet and is suspect. Firstly this. This is very very strange. Miltonkram was certainly solstice's big scum read early on, yet he was dropped for Risen. But you call out Vivax for this? Secondly, solstice doesn't really perk up until there is a case against him. Look through his filter, he posts nothing remotely controversial before this. Lastly, why indeed did he vote for Risen? In doing this he directly avoided taking a side in the lynch and therefore responsibility, so why Risen? There are only two reasons given. a)Risen posted that it was too early for gonzaw to have reads on the third page of the game proper. Damn straight this is too early to have reads. This is the only time he does this at all. This scum meta solstice speaks of doesn't match up. b) B is tied to A. Firstly, he was actually one of the first to call me out. So that didn't happen. I can't actually find where he defended Mattchew anywhere in his filter beyond this post, which isn't defending anyone more attacking gonzaw for having strong reads so early. So basically the grave reasoning behind solstice staying out of the lynch were factually incorrect and/or very very weak. For hiding from controversy i.e. the lynch for very dodgy reasoning, his low activity before being on the back foot and calling out Vivax despite doing exactly the same thing himself, I will ##Vote s0Lstice Mattchew was completely fucking useless day 1. There is so much crap in his filter I don't know how I didn't see it earlier. His vote on sciberbia was literally sheeping marv. He has now however just ninja'd with a case on tali that actually seems reasonable, regardless of it's defence of me. This is a very sudden change of tone from his previous stuff and I don't know what to make of it. I would have said very strong FoS up until this. Hmm this is not what I expected you to do actually. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 16 2012 04:41 Risen wrote: I have no read on you, but I don't like this backtrack :/ wouldn't call it a backtrack yet. I just thought he would pile on me. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 16 2012 04:40 Risen wrote: I'm super sad I supported mattchew as town earlier. He's been playing pretty much just like he did as scum in his last game with me, that is, being hella lurky and trying to fly under the radar. Also, I don't know how to feel about the tali or DropBear case. Marv is confirmed towny and he really disliked tali (I think, maybe it was DB but I remember it being tali I just woke up and will go through the filters). I literally have nothing so I might just end up going with what marv wanted. I'm so unconfident in myself now it's kind of funny rofl (as opposed to my usualy self). I still don't like the people who defended vivax strongly, though. I just can't wrap my head around him being a townie... I'm bad, and I should feel bad :< marv didn't like dropbear. I dunno how he felt about me. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 16 2012 04:58 sciberbia wrote: Just woke up. I'm a little disappointed that my case for talis hasn't received more support. His defense was reasonable, but I still feel pretty strongly that he is scum. @gonzaw What do you think of talis right now? Would you be happy lynching him today? so... what still makes you think I'm scum? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
wtf is thids bandwahon? y every game i die becausre of something stupid and then this tinme i get fuckinh injured and miss half a day | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
scib is naybe legit maybe not. but so many copypasta cases from ppl like s4b solstice etc. db also likely scum he push ne but dores bot want to be assoc w the vote | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
i will not get lynched for bs two times running so ironic i ewanted a wagon d1 to see who kjumped on but when i get it i vanbt even repky to it | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
honest to god i was jyst trying to stir the pot anbd what scum does that espec me see my scum games i am on sidelines in towwn ganes i am inb spotlight | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
u on me because i not pudh db hard but i say over n over itds cuz i was conflivted a bit by hpow fast wagon moved off me in the end i decide he is still best bet and i try to get marv anbd keir to vote him | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
fuck | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 17 2012 07:01 talismania wrote: y time ovr biggest irony is my flip tt tokld ya gl my minionsd | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 21 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote: Ta Tá! Fuck you guys for not helping me lynch Dropbear on D1 when he had 5 votes agreed wtf I needed that towncred also as you can see from the qts if I knew that my fake broken wrist would have almost worked like that I would have started posting sooner. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 21 2012 07:47 NoSmurfHere wrote: yeah I'm going to write up a more detailed postgame soon but the gist of it is this: scum were lazy. They had 0 presence, 0 influence, and 0 will to play. I know Mattchew didn't even want to play scum. Given that 1/3 of the scum team doesn't want to be scum and the other 2 for the most part play at about the same level, the only factor left is town. Because scum had no influence and town had confirming power roles (2 masons + cop) AND scum chose not to RB n1, the setup was very transparent. The lack of n1 RB forced the hand of mafia and it was a poor choice. Even if they wanted to (which I doubt they did) they could not fake a town RB or jailkeeper. In addition it was a race against the clock and scum lost because they were complacent. The townies who were "confirmed" were not at all confirmed (except for sciberbia, who didn't claim) but scum didn't take advantage of this. Scum didn't take advantage of Risen flip flopping. Scum didn't take advantage of the incorrectness of everyone who was not named austinmcc. The game wasn't won on analysis. It was merely won on luck. It could've been lost (for town) by luck just as easily. All the players must remember that. Kudos to austinmcc and marvellosity though. I would rate austin the best player of this game given that out of 4 scum reads on d1 he caught all 3 scum within them. yeah I didn't want to play scum either, but I never do | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
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