This ought to be fun!
Bureaucracy Mafia!
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This ought to be fun! | ||
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First off the random vote is a bad idea, normally the reason it is used is to eliminate mafia influence, but guess what the mafia don't know who each other are so this lynch will be without their influence anyway. We have a golden opportunity to have a lynch today with mafia having to base their judgments on reads, and make hard choices while not able to communicate. Fellow employees do not squander this opportunity! This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for. @ HiroPro Third yes mafia only has 1 KP see: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. Fourth, While I think a Policy lynch on claiming blues is bad, I do think you bring up a very valid point. As you mention 1 for 1 may not be a bad trade for them so I think we should certainly be extra wary of any claimants and possibly lynch the claimant if it seems fishy, but I think a Policy is going a bit too far. OK so thats my setup review / plans post, I am now working on locating scum so I will follow up in a bit with my thoughts on who to lynch. | ||
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On July 17 2012 00:08 Kurumi wrote: Cycle is day-night. Half cycle is either day or night. They probably can communicate right now. Mind you, that's only 3 messages. CEO-High Rank-Minion and High Rank-Minion. And they get only 1 shot to do so, so they will need to wait before sending it out. and it sounds like names are restricted in someway as well. Say we start to lynch a minion, then only 1 other person knows he is mafia (the high rank) at most he can probably say don't let this lynch go through. and it gets sent to the other 2 minions, but only if he hadn't said anything before that. or he won't even be able to say that. They also need to wait to hear from the leader or they can't forward on his message. This means more confusion as they have to wait later to try and save someone. This is why this lynch is so unique and a great shot for us to lynch scum. (full disclosure, I forgot they could send one message now though, which is why I said they would have no impact in my previous post) | ||
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On July 17 2012 00:14 HiroPro wrote: Bah, I thought it meant halfway through the day/night. I guess that kinda takes away the reactions we could get from the random lynch then. It actually was never confirmed when asked, though I lean towards Kurumi's interpretation of it day/night being the half cycles. | ||
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What is this??? the only way someone could vote you is if they are scum, do you really believe you are that town? Your latest post is so crazy I almost think it is a joke. | ||
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As others have also pointed out, he is also trying too hard to find reasons for his votes, it makes them seem fake. ##vote blazinghand | ||
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His stance and comments on Probulous are a red flag for me, combine that with Foolishnes and WBG's arguments and I think he starts looking like a great secondary candidate. It isn't conclusive, thats why I would like to move him to spot #2 and hopefully pull some proponents from his lynch onto BH who is scummier and give Sylo a day to see if he will shape up. | ||
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On July 17 2012 23:23 Palmar wrote: I share a lot of his initial reads and opinions. using his block against chezinu says nothing about his alignment as it's the only way he can respond, although I guess waiting for a mod to confirm the nuke would've been smarter. But I don't think BH is particularly smart, but he's loud and useful. Don't you think though as town he would have blocked the one on RoL when he learned Kurumi was mafia? | ||
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On July 17 2012 11:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm kinda hamstrung until rastaban gets back so in the meantime I'll throw my name in with the people who want BH dead. BH is really just going for whoever is currently the flavor of the hour, if you look at his posts he's simply flipped whenever thread opinion has changed. Also his reasons for voting people have been very sheepy, he's been gunning for syllo for the better part of the game but all of a sudden bugs waltzes in with a case and BH flips again. ##Unvote ##Vote: Blazinghand MZ while you are here, mind explaining that first line? You never even asked me a question, so how was I hamstringing your efforts while I was gone? | ||
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On July 18 2012 03:29 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: You've been very careful and useless so far this game however I don't think I could have made a convincing case on you with your 4 or so posts you had at the time I made my post. You've subsequently posted a little more however they've been just as worthless. I don't think I have enough time to get you lynched today but I'll definitely make a move tomorrow. ... So of all the cases made and discussed so far, you think lynching me for not being active is the best choice, an interesting opinion... I also I can't help but notice that you are also in the lynch BlazingHand camp now glad to see you are at least working to lynch scum today. | ||
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On July 18 2012 04:44 austinmcc wrote: I have no name cache here, that's fine. But read this with an open mind. Seriously read point (1). Consider whether it makes sense. (1) Sandroba's role is way, way, way too powerful Not a single person here knows how sandroba's power works. Mafia, town, 5th party, whatever. Nobody is curious? Nobody is thinking, jeez, in a game where mafia cannot communicate except through 2 messages per day cycle, 2 messages per night cycle, and there are NINE of them. A game where they might lynch each other, NK each other, use powers on each other. Nobody is going, holy balls, the ability to SEND FAKE MESSAGES is an incredibly, incredibly powerful role? Think about it. The way sandroba used it, he's a cop. You ask someone to do something, if they do, they must have assumed it was from a mafia higher-up. So if they obey, they're mafia, you got this game's equivalent of a red check. Moreover, you're a cop that cannot be affected by any kind of framing power. Normal cops can be balanced out by gfs, millers, frames. A red check from a normal cop may or may not indicate scum. Saying "Hey use these 3 phrases in your next post to identify yourself" CANNOT be balanced by any mechanic at all. If they obey a message they received, when they had no idea anyone other than mafia could send messages, they must be mafia. Name a single other explanation, because when kurumi tried to give one, it sounded dumb and everyone agreed it sounded dumb. Moreover, he's not just a cop. He can check people with that power, AND direct their actions. Not only does he know they're red when they follow orders, he can actively direct mafia action because messages are anonymous. He gets a red check AND gets to direct the actions of a mafia member, tell them who to go after, who to defend, etc. Oh man, austinmcc, that DOES sound pretty powerful now that I think about it. He's a supercop that can't get false checks in a game where mafia have limited communication? (2) Sandroba has played scum IN a sleeper cell game in which a powerful role fakeclaim helped win the game Well, surely he wouldn't claim such a powerful role, right? He'd wait to use it a few more times. I mean, checks AND mafia action disruption, you'd want to keep that secret. Unless, of course, you'd played in another game where a ridiculous check helped win you the game. You know, like, say, Sleeper Cell Mafia. The game where sandroba rolled mafia with Ace as cell leader and Ace claimed the following role: Ace skated by after claiming this, with the only person who was suspicious of his claim being another cell member. In the postgame, there was a decent bit of discussion about how town should have questioned Ace's claim given that he could (1) intercept messages and (2) shoot. Sandroba's claimed power is basically on about that level, because he's a combination cop and...disruptor? There's no name for that other role as far as I know. It's basically a townie who gets to sit in mafia QT but isn't mafia. (3) Sandroba showed balls as a sleeper agent in that same game Ace claimed to have shot GGQ N3. There was only one kill. Sandroba, as scum, claimed vet on D4 in order to account for the missing KP. So we KNOW he's got the balls to fakeclaim as scum in this style of game. We know that having those balls won him a game, as scum, in this style of game. Maybe I'm being paranoid. But maybe that role is a little overpowered to be in a balanced game. Maybe sandroba can play ballsy as scum in this sort of game. Maybe, even if the role isn't overpowered, Sandroba should be smart enough not to out himself because he caught 1/9 of the mafia team with a role that friggin' powerful. Wouldn't you keep that to yourself and catch more? Wouldn't you catch more and actively disrupt mafia communication/actions? THAT is why I wanted Sandroba to claim. That is why I find him scummy. Get offa mah nuts, because if you actually think about his role, you should be questioning it too. Either scum have RIDICULOUSLY powerful roles to balance things out, or town simply cannot have a guy who ends up being an uncounterable cop PLUS can actively plant fake mafia communications. But see someone has that role, Kurumi confirmed she received the PM. Mafia can't just PM whoever they want, they get it 1x a night to specific minions. So this powerful role has to exist OR he is scum bussing mafia. Either way we should kill the target (The nuke is doing that for us) and continue to evaluate him. Mafia will need to kill him if he is town, as he has incredible power. If he ends up living for a few nights then yeah lets go back to him and see if he needs lynched, but for now there is no reason to try and do anything about it. Should he have claimed, I don't know, I think his argument that it makes mafia doubt all PMs is a legit reason to do so, more so when he is outing scum at the same time. Lets make mafia sort this out for now. | ||
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On July 18 2012 12:26 Mattchew wrote: I think Gonzaw is overwhelmed (not enough time) and that very much plays into why his meta would seem off. His confidence seems to be gone without being able to be the most dominant (usually by sheer volume) poster in the thread. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this little filter out of him and I think this all stems from not having enough time. I think his reactions and posts are sincere and truthful I see u are on MZ. Gonzaw and mh are our leading candidates and it looks like I agree to give gonzaw a bit more time. Will u switch to MH? | ||
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What part of the nuke logic do you not agree with? | ||
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I think this is my first game with "Nukes" and it is closed so they are very confusing for me. Is it standard for people to be given duds? Even if it is does the launcher usually know it is a dud, I would think that would be something they wouldn't be privy to. Lastly BH, if you really are town can you explain your block since it has been used now, I am asking because is it possible it blocks the last Nuke fired? RoL while lazy/absent much of the game actually was major contributor to the town win in Bang Bang, I find it incredibly hard to believe the story he knew K wouldn't be hit. Foolishness is usually useless day one, and ramps up day 2 (why they try and kill him so fast) what surprises me is at least in my previous game he was open about it, this game he seems to be trying to hard to look like a contributor day 1. Of course he is amazing at outing scum when town so lets see if he has better reasoning if he survives the night. That said, Kurumi needs to die, I don't trust a shot anymore (Sorry Palmar I thought you were crazy for wanting to lynch her, I had no clue nukes were so un-sure). | ||
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On July 18 2012 22:31 marvellosity wrote: Now do you see why everyone was shouting at RoL? ^_^ Yes TT. Still I think we should hold criticism of him till after the game when he can at least respond with why he did it, as it is done now and he is dead confirmed town. | ||
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Guys Chez is the most Pro Town player this game, take a moment and read what he says any you will find enlightenment. First it seems that the only day or night KP is a single Nuke, and guess who has that, Kurumi. DO you really think that it would be given to scum in this setup and not town? Second, the whole case against him is how he responded to the sandroba text, and while mafia would have went with it, guess what I think a town might would have as well. It is easy for me to say I would have told town, but would I have, what if it as a mason group, etc... I can see someone knowing they were town going along with it for the moment. Third we really want to hit Scum leaders, So I think Kurumi deserves a reprieve and we start judging based on actions and not that he went along with a received PM. If he keeps up scummy then yes lets kill him, otherwise lets actually go for a lynch today instead of mindlessly trying to kill K. Now it is time time to look at alternatives. Sadly the person I was sheeping died. But my fellow emplyees I ask you, why did he die? DO not let the Kurumi distract you, someone was murdered last night and it was for a reason. That reason was because he was on the tail of high level scum. The CEO knows only three scum, himself and 2 others, using that infrmation he chose to save someone. Who was it? Here are some WBG hit lists: Blazinghand layabout Meapak_Ziphh syllogism ##vote Austinmcc As for scum given how blatant their behavior seems I think the simplest route is to kill the confirmed ones first and then the scumreads that multiple people agree upon. Right now ignoring Zealos and Kurumi that looks like: Foolishness GGQ Meapak Layabout And potentially: Katina Now they wouldn't kill him for the BlazingHand or Kurumi vote, Even the Foolishness vote is being headed up strongly by others. Who on this list would gain the most by a dead WBG??? Here I will let him tell you who it was: On July 18 2012 07:45 wherebugsgo wrote: man why must this always be so hard -_- Maybe the safest choice is killing layabout after all I had motive, but I still needed facts to prove layabouts guilt. it is with this in mind that I began the laborious process of examining everything we had on file about this man. On July 17 2012 06:32 layabout wrote: If sandroba can message people why did he reveal his power after outing a single player that he could have pushed without revealing his power? On July 17 2012 07:00 layabout wrote: Sandro why did you claim that you could trick mafia into revealing themselves when you had only tricked one player? PSA: No talking to kurumi and spamming up the thread! On July 17 2012 07:00 layabout wrote: Sandro why did you claim that you could trick mafia into revealing themselves when you had only tricked one player? PSA: No talking to kurumi and spamming up the thread! Nothing of substance posted yet, but sometimes lack of evidence can be evidence itself. Why did they just bleach and clean the trunk of their car? In the same way someone cleansing their own posts can point towards guilt. On July 18 2012 03:04 layabout wrote: bah Sandro town Kurumi scum. I must be over thinking things since none of you questioned mafia following a two line message of questionable intent when mafia can only have sent up to 3 messages that could have been as long as they liked and would have been their only method of communication. Are we ignoring the nuke and just killing Kurumi then? lol Here we see he has possible doubts about the Kurumi case, but look his resolution is to not talk to K. How do you find the truth if you are going to gag the victim? you can't. On July 18 2012 10:35 layabout wrote: Not game relevant: I think i am going to take a break from TL mafia. I had looked forward to this game for some time but now it's happening i can't bring myself to care. At some point during the last game something inside just snapped. There were a number of reasons for it and i was going to make a thread but then real life kicked in and i haven't had the time. Yesterday was my first day back to myself and i spent most of it away from my computer and most of my computer time on Blacklight: Retibution. In spite of this i hate nothing more than asshats that don't play or people that are exempt from trying/playing because "It's player soandso" so i will try. After i die i will bugger off. I began writing a long post but i am tired and it reads like dogpoo. Following sandro since the last time... well it worked out pretty well for town. ##vote gonzaw I am not sure how he can think that both foolishness and syllogism are scum. He seems to be looking at the thread from a very different viewpoint. Excuses, Mafia love them to justify bad play. Here he admits he doesn't care about the outcome, but since he is bored that it is ok. Lets cut this guy some slack, he just doesn't feel it this game, yeah i don't think so either. The rest of his posts comprise him saying to keep ignoring Kurumi. He still hasn't had a single case, his vote yesterday was: "Following sandro since the last time... well it worked out pretty well for town.##vote gonzaw" Prefaced with "I began writing a long post but i am tired and it reads like dogpoo." I would like to see at least something pointing towards a candidate he would liek to kill besides Kurumi ##Vote Layabout | ||
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On July 20 2012 00:04 Kurumi wrote: Why layabout isn't scum? You haven't given many reasons for most of your reads so far. Palmar: I guess I'm also reconsidering layabout. It'd be very low play from him to write that frustration post to get stuff off him as mafia, and I genuinely don't think he's an asshole. | ||
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Also scum almos has to exist between BH, K, and RoL, we know it isn't RoL, if K flips town like I think he might I think BH is a great target. I am going to ignore layabout as apparently people think his confession is too low for him to stoop to as mafia. I don't know him well enough to say that, but I have seen that tactic used in the pact so please don't rule it out. | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:30 Katina wrote: VE: Then we will lynch Zealos D3, honey. That doesn't mean the town has to run all over the place with their votes. The Mafia aren't going anywhere, we have to lynch them one at a time. Not knowing what other powers scum have is not something we should be focusing on right now. That's not going to make them suddenly pop into our minds. We will find out like we always do and that's when they use it. It's impossible to know anything before hand. Kurumi has already used his power when he nuked RebithOfLegend. I understand that Zealos might have a power too but I think that's farfetched considering the amount of nukes and blocks going off D1. Right now we should keep our votes on Kurumi and continue to make cases on others that are scummy then decide who our D3 lynch should be when night falls and Kurumi's alignment is revealed. Or Zealos could be an executive. And we start crumbling their infrastructure a day early. We know K isnt exec, and doesn't have a nuke today. | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:40 Chezinu wrote: Do you know what blazinghand and VE have in common? They both said ##block. PS: blazinghand is bad at blocking. So, what does that make of VE? 2 blockers for with only 1 real nuke seems strange, if he doesn't have it and it is a nuke he is outed as well. | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:54 Katina wrote: I do know but people have been saying many different things about why the want to lynch Zealos and I'm saying switching votes now is not a good idea. We have 24 hours now is the perfect time to switch. | ||
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On July 20 2012 12:38 Katina wrote: Only two people have switched as I said before there is no garauntee that enough people will switch over to ensure his lynch. We are already lynching a Mafia member, no need to cause distruption to that right now. Except I disagree and think Kurumi is innocent, so lynching Zealos is strictly superior in my eyes. | ||
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On July 20 2012 12:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh, reason. <3 TBH if we're switching I'd want to switch to Foolishness anyway. Skidoosh? So....I'm gonna go read WBG's posts right now. I want someone else to do the same. Anyone can, but I'm doing it too. Hypothesis: WBG was killed for a reason. What ground breaking opinion... . Maybe it wasn't layabout then and I pointed fingers in the wrong direction, but I agree with you. There is much to be learned from his posts. | ||
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On July 20 2012 13:49 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Attempt At Night-Kill Analysis First, the reason I've done this: the mafia kill mechanic. So, here's my theory: this night-kill holds significance because A) I haven't done this analysis yet and B) This night is the most likely that the CEO does not know who his minions are yet. The information that the CEO has, as I understand it, is the names of his two Executives. And the information that the Executives have are the names of the minions. But all mafia but the CEO must submit a name for the night-kill. So this means 2 things. 1) that the night-kills will more likely have an actual reason other than "to throw town off" or "blue snipe" and 2) that the CEO gets information on who his minions are by who they want to kill. Given all of this, my assumption is that Blazinghand is Mafia. First of all, just so we're clear, I do NOT have the ability to block nukes. Nothing stops a nuke. It's a nuke. I guess it's possible, but I very seriously doubt it for two reasons. 1) because RoL had a dud nuke. It never had a chance of exploding, ever. And 2) Because as Bugs commented earlier - if BH was town and had a block available, he would have blocked Kurumi's nuke the moment he found out that Kurumi was scum. Regardless of the fact that scum minions don't know who each other are, it is a net gain for town to prevent mafia from achieving their objectives. Period. Kurumi could have been under direct orders to fire that nuke for all we know. So right now I'm looking at something like... Kurumi, Zealos, Foolishness, Blazinghand ...if we're talking about my like...really heavy strong scum reads. Layabout is still up there, and here's something else I found that was interesting: Which further makes me question my read on marvellosity to be honest. Starting to think marvellosity is scum too, because layabout goes unnoticed by marvellosity in spite of ...being the reason marv gave for agreeing with MZ's case. Considering marv's high regard for Bugs as a player, I'd expect a town marv to be all up on layabout after Bugs post on him. But Bugs must have been killed for a reason. tl:dr -
I agree with most of this, however I don't think Kurumi is mafia if this is the case. Why would mafia have both the real nuke and the only blocker... Unless host is messing with us. If Kurumi flips blue this lynch then I think this case is much stronger. Also, and this is possibly reading too much from nothing but Kurumi outed from his other mafia sign up to recollect for a bit. That is a seems like like town unhappy that they are being ignored, not scum getting caught but just my 2 cents. | ||
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On July 20 2012 14:01 Chezinu wrote: wow, people are actually understanding me this game... First Prob and now you.. Foolishness coached me on the arts of understanding chezinu in the past, I am still just a padawan, so it takes a while to unravel the answers locked inside. | ||
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First, I don't agree it was a fake block from BH, that doesn't make sense though it was what I thought was being refered to last night. I can see a someone on the board of directors having veto power, which is where I think chez was going with it. He decided to try to test his blocking powers on a nuke rather than a person. This could be explained by: ##block: Chezinu I was hoping not to have to use this. Why would a townie hope not to have to use his power? Wouldn't someone as townie expect to use their power as they got it for a reason? Next we have the sandroba issue, I am not following that at all. Apparently Chezinu is claiming to be the head of the board of communication. That would mean he has 3 minions as well, and that his group broke off from the bureaucracy. I can see this being true as they would help keep the messages from revealing everyones name since it could out the whole scum team if caught. The messages are Censored to some degree, though apparently Chez doesn't see the messages but has some input on what gets censored, and possibly adds his own messages to the original message. This means he has been sending commands to the mafia as well without them knowing for a while Chez as head of communications though is also the link with the minions and part of why things get censored that the CEO isn't aware of. He has tried antagonizing both sides , as their is likely a hierarchy or something in place that will disrupt mafia communication were he to die as they wouldn't have a relay even if that relay does do some censoring. Possibly they get delayed or are less frequent, maybe it is just passed on like with the mafia system. I beleive Chezinu is limited in what he can say or something similar, but he has a living will (see his minion with communication on death) that will reveal a lot of things which is why death doesn't scare him like I thought it would. So back to sandroba... he isn't on Chezinu's list so he can't be on the board of communications. Is this why you suspect him? Messages were sent and he was aware of them, so he obviously has the power. Both Z and K confirmed them as well and unless he bussed them both he has to have a power like that. I don't know, and the evidence them is how they acted regarding the messages, which they did regardless of his alignment as ti didn't affect them. If he was mafia he would know if he was bussing or not (has power so would be minion) and he would be outing his own people possibly. Also heads up to town, chezinu got mew thinking about how CEO doesn't have a power role. Be on the lookout for someone using someone else's power... bah is this what you mean chez?? Did Sandroba have a minion do something and then claim responsibility for it? this would be a powerful play to make as an exec would be protected. But I don't see how they could know, at least not at this point. I don't know, I can't find find any way to construe sandroba as mafia within the bounds of what I currently know about how the system works. Chez do you know your minions, are they confirmed town to you? | ||
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How do you feel about Sandroba? He may have bussed you and Zealos, obviously you don't agree and if you flip town that can't be true. Do you think that he is mafia or town? what are your feelings on Zealos, i know earlier you said you couldn't read him, but has the interaction between him and sandroba changed anything? You think you are town for not sharing the PM, do you think Zealos had a legit reason for not sharing the PM? You said 4 of these are likely red, I marked the one you called out. Any others you want to add to that list? Veterans: RebirthOfLegend (dead, town) Foolishness GGQ Bill Murray Meapak_Ziphh Chezinu (eeeeee I am going to say town on this one) Good players: sandroba (alive but all looks like he is town) Palmar wherebugsgo (dead, town) syllogism probably VisceraEyes, not sure though. | ||
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Are you referring to him being scum (I don't think it is likely) or that me saying him messaging someone wouldn't confirm him? | ||
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On July 21 2012 00:02 marvellosity wrote: I think he was referring (I was) that it's a good idea to get sandroba to PM someone of town's choosing And if Kurumi flips town like I think is a possibility we don't even need him to do that as we would know he messaged town. If Kurumi flips scum it is our way of proving it wasn't a bus. | ||
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On July 21 2012 00:13 Palmar wrote: No it doesn't. Do you think this increases the chances of rastaban being mafia? There is more than a chance! What with all the lurking and setup speculation he has been doing. I mean even everything he just said has been derivative and more on roles with no real analysis of actual players. Top that off with his pathetic case on layabout which even he backed off on and it really makes a guy wonder... | ||
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On July 21 2012 01:49 Foolishness wrote: Well you should have seen it a lot of earlier. Can you give me a name of someone who makes more sense? I can only think of two people in which you can make an argument for. It's fine to discuss potential lynch targets, the issue is that it is day two and literally every player has been accused. There's absolutely zero focus. One page people are talking about Zealos, 3 pages later it's about Chezinu. With so many cases it's hard to tell who is actually trying to make a case (townies) and who's just fueling the fire (mafia). From what I can see though the people of interest in this regard are Blazinghand (should be obvious by now), marvellosity, and HiroPro. supersoft, Mattchew, Probulous, Palmar and yourself are somewhat guilty but not to the same extent. Other than BM where should the focus be? Don't you beleive that Kurumi and Zealos are scum? We have BH after both of them. I am confused on what you want to focus on, is their more to discuss on these 3 players? I am just confused as to what you mean by wanting to focus. It seems to me that town is pretty agreed on the next, 2 if not 3 lynches. | ||
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On July 21 2012 03:10 Foolishness wrote: Your "case" against him is taking things completely out of context. Zealos said early on he didn't like the BH lynch cause it was overtunneled and had weak reasons. He changed his opinion later on and he even said so and gave a reason why. I'm pretty sure I can find at least two other people who didn't like the BH lynch at first either but then changed their minds later (Probulous and VE come to my mind, correct me if I'm wrong though). What's the rest of your case about? It seems to me to be all about not voting BH and then deciding to vote him. He clearly explained himself (yeah I agree not the best explanation in the world, but you're nitpicking at nothing). Again, post a case otherwise there's no reason to be talking about lynching this guy. Isn't the biggest issue the fact that he covered up the fact that he had been PMed? How is that any different that what Kurumi did? To me it is worse since by that point it was made known that Sandroba was using that tactic and yet Zealos didn't come forward. | ||
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This is in reference to the second PM received the following day. The original PM was from Sandroba. Will still don't know if the second one was real, or who it came from. | ||
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... we need your cryptic ramblings! (don't get mod killed) | ||
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On July 21 2012 05:45 Kurumi wrote: You are getting this all wrong syllogism. If I flip mafia (which I won't) then sandroba's actions are nullified. Then you need to back your actual reads with analysis. When I flip Town, then it becomes transparent that sandroba's Town(there is a chance he's a minion with a wonky power, but... that'd hurt my head.) Sandie, I've never asked: Why did you pick me to send this message? I believe he posted it before, your nuke meant you weren't exec, and it being used on someone who hadn't posted yet seemed suspicious so you were a good candidate. Thats what the message meant you thought was referring to ROL. | ||
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Kurumi, I believe you. Will review your posts when you flip blue. Don't take it too hard, this happened to gonzaw a few games ago in bang bang. Sometimes a slip up, even when town is too much and it there is nothing that can be done about it. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:12 Blazinghand wrote: Well, even if Kurumi was a non-obvious choice, Zealos was a solid one, and he has 1/3 chance of hitting scum. Why do you say non-obvious, it seems to me like it was a great choice. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Kurumi was a piss-poor choice, as Probulous pointed out. Kurumi was likely to pretend to be mafia regardless of his alignment as far as I'm concerned, so that makes that particular choice terrible. Zealos was decent IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR MINIONS...but Sandro has been onboard with Operation: CEObliterate since inception...it doesn't make sense that he'd try and fool ZEALOS if he's hunting for Executives. But he has to hit minions, scum already has a code in place to verify the messages. so he has to hit people not contacted yet. I agree Kurumi as a personality was a bad choice as he would go along with it, but as a tactical choice it was the best as it wouldn't be an exec as it had used a power in a questionable way. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Everyone please think of the kill structure for a moment. The CEO must kill someone off the list of names submitted by his underlings This means he cannot just choose someone at random, he has a list he has to pick from. And he chose WBG from that list rather than Sandroba, the wily scum-hunting messenger? HONESTLY GUYS?! REALLY?! That is what made me go through Bug's posts, though he was the most pro town player it still seams a stretch unless they thought their was a medic. Thats why I though Layabout might be the guy he was covering for. | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:35 layabout wrote: For all intents and purposes sandroba is town. This game requires half of the thread to agree on a lynch. Kurumi is + Show Spoiler + On July 21 2012 04:31 Kurumi wrote: If you wanted to make me angry, consider yourself successful. Fuck you. he was angry that syllogism proposed that he could do this as town And yet there are 5 votes not on Kurumi! We are going to need focus more and we are going to need to stop joking around with votes and thread actions. Palmar and Foolishness are calling syllogism mafia. Syllogism in turn is calling both Palmar and Foolishness mafia. Many of you insist on speculating that the host will have made the CEO one of these players (or sandroba or Meapak). It is always dangerous to make decisions based upon out-guessing the host. But if we are aiming to kill the CEO we should plac e our attention on those 3 players. If we are looking for the person most likely to flip scum tomorrow we need look no further tahn our good friend zealos. I defended him initially but his actions since then show that he is either a mafia or a townie that isn't playing. READ: Before sandroba revealed that he had messaged zealos WBG considered zealos to be as likely scum as Kurumi. He did not explain his reasons explicitly but he expressed this opinion and we would be wise not to forget it. It's useful to have a meta assessment so: What was the most sgnificant event during day1? + Show Spoiler [Answer] + The great sandroaba-Kurumi debacle of course! This one event outed Kurumi as scum. Now town should take a scum lynch day1 100% of the time. From that point onwards the only thing the thread needed to do was vote kurumi and then ask whether it was a a bus or not. It should have removed all other candidates for the lynch and discussion the thread should have moved onto the next day's lynch. RoL's nuke was the only good reason to move on from this issue and it was the reason that kurumi was not lynched. Everyone should have paid their attention to that and thought about the various possibilities since for a time that event would have decided that days lynch and is deciding today lynch. It was your responsibility as town. But are we to believe that until this morning zealos was unaware of the whole thing? Zealos placed his first vote against austinmcc He says nothing about austinmcc specifically and yet he feels that the only thing needed to justify his vote was thread momentum. At that time a few players were calling austinmcc scummy but there was nothing substantial said at all and he had very few votes. Zealos' vote was lazy and shows that he was trying to fit in rather than trying to get a successful lynch. It sounds a lot like the Zealos that HiroPro descibed. So Zealos still was not reading the thread since austinmcc did not have a decent case against him and his comment about Kurumi demonstrates a complete lack of thread knowledge. He also picks out Blazinghand not for being scummy but for being "odd". Which is strange since there should be enuogh players for him to find something that is scummy and not simply "odd". I will simply re-post: And what has he done? Well he spent just long enough in the thread to have sandroba's message explained to him. He contributed nothing of his own and has not been productive. He is mafia. ##tomorrow we should vote zealos Layabout, does Kurumi flipping blue change your post at all? And while I agree town needs to unite, it was pretty obvious Kurumi was town if anyone cared to look at his posts beyond following a random pm received. This is the third game in a row where I have seen town butcher an obvious innocent for a single slip up (though we were able to save marv last minute) gonzaw marv and Kurumi all acted the same when caught. Guess who isn't acting that way. Zealos. I think BH is a great lynch as well, he has veto power that is certainly a minion on the board of directors. So Zealos then BH 2 for 2. Come on town let's do this! | ||
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Syllogism is town it is pretty obvious Foolishness I'm sorry I doubted you for a bit. I forgot last game we played together mafia's ploy was to get you lynched. I am convinced your town now so let's work together. You are posting just like you did then with distant for poor town play an focusing on finding scum. I like it! Not sure on ggq yet, time for more research! Chezinu and sandroba are obviously town. BM is so different from himself he must be scum. | ||
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On July 22 2012 11:54 HiroPro wrote: BTW guys, notice the awesome role that Zealos claimed (along with the whole nonsense he had with his reads and the sandroba PM that he failed to bring to the thread)? It should be almost certain that he is mafia at this point. Who was it, VE I think, who even said Vt would be enough. Over compensation. Lynch Zealos | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:41 slOosh wrote: My point with VE was that he exposed Foolishness' contradiction, which held a lot of weight because my town read on him rested on my agreement with his BM case - that he wasn't wasting his time screwing around. Up to that point the majority of what I saw against Foolishness was meta reads from all the vets who knew each other, not something strong enough that I would shoot on - yet the line of questioning showed that he would so easily drop his BM case in a situation where the question where the lynch options were on equal ground, i.e. not an issue of consolidation. The point I was bringing up with Chezinu was that BM was pushing me on really flimsy grounds. He blaming me for not seriously considering all of Chezinu's claims which is ridiculous, and demeans my reads on that alone. I never thought Chezinu was town; when I said a couple of his posts seemed insightful I was drawing a contrast that even he was putting in some effort, whereas Bill Murray had shown no insight and no interest in the game. If I ever threw muck at his name it was unintentional dismissal of an intentionally abstruse person who was making it difficult to read the thread. In light of the recent events however, it has become clear that Chezinu is someone worth focusing on due to his abilities, which is why I said I doubt one person could have multiple abilities like so, which is why I asked for confirmation in case I misunderstood something. As for the concerns of my role's plausibility: that's what I got. I can't shoot unless mafia haven't died in 1.5 cycles. If it's a really weird / unlikely role, I can't help it. It's what I got. If he was going to lie why not say 1 cycle till he can fire for more believability? 1.5 cycles sounds more legit to me in this crazy setup. You can wifom it if you want but at best it is a null tell. Anyway we have 2 great targets in Zealos and palmar. Let's make sure one of them gets lynched | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Palmer | ||
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On July 24 2012 06:30 gonzaw wrote: Well shit, Palmar's claim doesn't make much sense actually. If he was Copycat he'd get Rol's role like other people said; if he could choose which role to get it'd be very powerful, and he would have likely chosen Kurumi's role instead (once Kurumi died), since he knew Kurumi had a nuke since D1. His posting on D2 doesn't see like a scum Palmar to me, would a scum Palmar put effort like that? Him just giving up right now is not making things any easier. I'll likely change my vote to him to consolidate, but I won't just sheep a vote on someone I'm not sure is scum so I want some more explanations first. You better hurry and vote Palmar, I have heard it said only scum wouldn't vote him so it is obvious that we must all lynch him or else be obv. scum! Chezinu must believe this as he also is voting for Palmar. Silly VE, Chezinu is the truth teller why would we kill the messenger for his message. | ||
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On July 24 2012 08:04 gonzaw wrote: I expected someone to answer me by now :/ @Prob: Will you answer what I posted before? *sigh* You guys better be right, I don't have a good feeling about this ##Unvote: Zealos ##Vote: Palmar I'm going to the gym now and I think I'll be back right before the deadline. Last post of the previous page has the answers you seek. | ||
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On July 24 2012 23:59 Mattchew wrote: Syllo style working backwards time layabout sloosh HiroPro Bill Murray Gonzaw Meapak_Ziphh austinmcc Katina rastaban marvellosity risk.nuke Q-bert-Z Zealos I took out all dead people, and anyone I consider strongest town reads (syllo super prob VE chez) Next lets take off the list people I dont think are possible lynches for today (this will be biased) Bill Murray austinmcc risk.nuke marvellosity Gonzaw This leaves us with layabout sloosh hiropro Meapak_Ziphh Katina Rastaban Q-bert-Z Zealos With me believing Sloosh's claim and Q-bert-Z's excuse This leaves our remaining scum team probable Execs - MZ and Foolishness's Girlfriend probable minions - layabout, hiropro, Rastaban, Zealos I don't like that post all, I was trying to figure out what it was and then I realized. No, not just that it is a giant list like mafia love to do, it was more than that. Then it hit me. His mafia list is based on people he thinks can be lynched today. This post doesn't seem town aligned at all. He basically says he is willing to lynch anyone. It bothers me that there are 6 candidates with only 6 scum remaining. Maybe you don't think someone will be lynched today but why would that mean they aren't candidates for scum? This post reeks of vote justification. I decided to look into some of his previous posts. While he supported the Palmar lynch, it was only when it no longer mattered as he admits himself: On July 24 2012 05:03 Mattchew wrote: I am voting Palmar. I unintentionally saved BH from a day 1 lynch. Sandroba saying Palmar was the best reason I could find, and I trust that sandroba is smarter than I. My vote is late and meaningless, but it does help ensure a lynch. ##vote: Palmar But look at his posts before that: On July 24 2012 09:07 Mattchew wrote: Cause honestly I have had a null tell on Palmar and agreed with him throughout this entire game... Also, I was wondering if scum would weed out their high level members for us (killing the town vets first thus if Palmar or syllo or MZ were alive like day 5 or 6, they'd be very very very likely scum... but idk these aren't exactly arguments that counter the case you made and sandroba and syllos reads on palmar On July 24 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote: Prob I find/found it weird that you were unwilling to discuss Katina with me. Usually you and Gonzaw are both extremely longwinded and willing to type out your thoughts on literally anything at anytime. With so many votes on Palmar he was/is set to be lynched and you STILL refused to answer questions about her. There is something different about you this game On July 24 2012 09:18 Mattchew wrote: Lol you forget that other cases may be as good if not stronger than yours. Didn't you chastise (or atleast allow people to chastise) me for doing the exact same thing to my strongest read Katina? I don't see you revoking my claims in order to push my vote onto Palmar. Why should I do something that you are not willing to do yourself? He wanted to save Palmar, but when the pressure was to late he gave in, but only after his vote no longer mattered.... He has pushed Katina this entire game, to nearly the exclusion of all else. while he posts one liners atempting discredit players he never goes after anyone besides Katina Lastly I would like to ask you to go through his filter and look at how many lists he posts juxtapose his arguments for lynching, On July 19 2012 00:01 Mattchew wrote: If I could have one wish, it would be to see these people dead in the upcoming daypost Kurumi - sandroba out'd scum Katina - read my filter Meapak_Ziphh - Prob pointed out how timid and passive he was posting Rastaban - Literally just looking out for himself Foolishness - this is not the play of someone that has been voted the best scum hunter on TL Bill Murray Chezinu Posts like this are all too common but other than Katina you will never see him actually try and get anyone on his lists lynched, preferring to stir the pot and wish "scum" away with his lists. | ||
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On July 25 2012 00:19 Mattchew wrote: That was a combination post of who to lynch, that turned into a reads post lol lol, it took 20 minutes to realize you slipped up with that post? | ||
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On July 25 2012 00:53 marvellosity wrote: matt's not the only one who has listed like that on more than one occasion. Why pick on him and not the others? (e.g. supersoft, katina) My primary argument isn't the list, but the fact that the list drove his scum reads not the other way around. That is a scum mindset. He says these are a list of people not likely to be lynched today, and then he doesn't consider them as possible scum from that point on. Sure they might not be lynched but their is probably at least one scum in that list. His reason for removing them wasn't because they seem not scummy, but because they couldn't be lynched today. | ||
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On July 25 2012 01:00 Mattchew wrote: Lol at rasta not knowing how to look at times of posts Bah, Your filter is too big I get lost I still think the point stands. While you were eventually able to vote for him you didn't want to. I don't think that makes you scum alone, but it is definitely not a point in your favor. My problem is that you are willing to post and argue points to defend people but other than Katina we don't see you arguing for a lynch of someone. | ||
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On July 25 2012 01:13 Mattchew wrote: My reads + others reads Your list just said you thought they couldn't be lynched today. By reads, do you mean people who were viewed as town, or do you mean people who were viewed as lower priority? Edit - Never mind clicked through to view it and saw that one of the questions is what grade level you are at. Good luck | ||
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Please don't kill me please | ||
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On July 25 2012 03:05 syllogism wrote: Really katina, I'm a null read? That's amazing well maybe if you would stop lurking and actually help out the town for once she could get a read on you... | ||
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On July 25 2012 03:13 supersoft wrote: you realize, that syllo and i (and VE to some extend, he however killed bh) were the driving force behind foolishness and palmars deaths? lurking? do you even read the thread? I knew I should have appended a | ||
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On July 25 2012 03:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Guys there's something strange going on with Chez. He's promising to "shape up" now? Really? We just killed 3 scum in one cycle. THREE SCUM IN ONE CYCLE. Whatever the piss we're doing, we're doing it right. Now isn't the time to change things up, if you're a townie. Conversely if you're scum, something is going horribly horribly wrong. Between the two, who do you think is more likely to change it up and "shape up" now? But what if his promise to change things up is actually him being the same and continue to troll. I have a really big town read on chez this game, unless he starts stearing people wrong I don't see any reason to change that. Probulous has already pointed out some efforts chez has made on our behalf and his meta this game fits with his town power role meta from previous games. If this change ends up town then yeah, maybe we do re-examine it, but we haven't seen this change yet so lets see what becomes of it. | ||
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Also Mattchew, maybe you are right on Katina, that last post by her was... surprising. | ||
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On July 25 2012 03:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Scum don't know other scum. Lest we forget. Scumhunting doesn't clear you syllo. I'm a little salty about no one listening to me but meh...maybe you will listen to a dead guy. Are you referring to chez, or something else? | ||
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On July 25 2012 09:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh and rastaban. I don't like him either. GRRRZZZZZZZ I felt so unloved and forgotten until I read this. Thanks VE, maybe I am just a footnote but I view it as getting my own post! | ||
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On July 25 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote: I think that's particularly pointless speculation rastaban. I don't think it is, the biggest reason people said my case against him was flawed was because he appealed to emotion and they thought he wouldn't stoop to that. If he is scum it would explain some things and this fits into my argument that scum could appeal to emotion as well. Maybe he wouldn't stoop to using it to justify lurking but what if he was scum and wasn't into it either. It is certainly worth speculating on. | ||
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On July 26 2012 00:53 austinmcc wrote: Gonzaw - His early stuff does look like he's not around to play. - While he's defended BH and Palmar, they were on opposite sides of the mafia heirarchy, and he was finding them both town relatively early, so it's not like he's been caught defending 2 or 3 minions that all fell on one side of the tree. - He went after Foolishness with some decent content. - His vote yesterday still strikes me as off. Complaining that people won't answer your one question when there's already a majority and you've not been a driving force this game (could see high-activity Gonzaw feeling like people should answer his questions) doesn't sit well with me. Yesterday's post right before his vote, where he complains that nobody will answer his question and he doesn't feel good about the lynch, is the scummiest part of his filter for me. Worse than the late vote and sheeping. But it's not as bad as MZ. MZ I'm not even looking at the Palmar crap on MZ. MZ looks bad all by himself. D1 - When I first read this, I liked it. We had so many cases and suspicions flying around early that our D1 was massive and it's tough to pick out the good from the bad. 2/3 the thread probably got accused of being scum on D1. MZ gives what I think is a variation on that train of thought in his response to VE - + Show Spoiler + On July 25 2012 09:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: D1 the lynch should have been BH. If you go back and read the end of the day I was working very hard to try and ensure that we even had a lynch. D2 Kurumi was obviously the best option because of the Sandroba PM, I'm still astounded he flipped town. D3 Palmar was easily the best option because of the foolishness situation. Note a theme here, I fully agreed with the person who was getting lynched. The guys who was under the gun was acting scummy and I wanted them to die. It would have hurt the town and been very nonconstructive if I had pushed for rastaban say on the day we killed Palmar. It's just dumb to accuse me of not going hard after rastaban when I agree with the guy up to die. I've brought up rastaban because at some point we're going to run out of obvious lynches (since we have zealos that day hasn't arrived). My rastaban case has actually started to pick up some steam which I'm glad to see, as soon as there isn't a better obvious lynch I'll take my turn and get him killed. I can get someone killed when I want to VE, you of all people should know this. However the time isn't right for a rastaban lynch. It would have been completely idiotic if I had tried to get him lynched in place of any of the others who have died so far, and further more I have no incentive to do so when I agree with the guy getting lynched. All the other people to die have been in my opinion, the scummiest person in the thread. The day we try and lynch someone who I don't think isn't the scummiest will be the day I jump up and start screaming bloody murder. Until then I'll wait my turn to get rastaban killed. Yet, here's MZ on D2 during the Kurumi lynchHere, MZ encourages EVERYONE to throw out "their various cases." It's not 100% contradictory to his past stances, but it doesn't mesh with them. If MZ thinks that adding cases on people other than the main lynch target(s) is a bad idea for him, then why is it a good idea for everyone to throw out every case? Maybe because it worked so well D1. Not only did we no-lynch, but there are also so many cases and suspicions D1 that it's difficult to wade through. If D2 looks the same, with everyone calling out everyone, then that's another day that will be very difficult to sort back through later on. That's the main reason I'm finding him scummy - doesn't want to spam/derail thread with cases, asks everyone to do that D2. Little other points, some of which others have pointed out (I think?): - Minor: MZ active N1 pushing consolidation onto Gonzaw, then pushing consolidation onto BH. Foolishness may have been CEO, but he wasn't bullshitting when saying that a couple mass switches late is a recipe for a no-lynch. MZ helped push switches, mafia wants no-lynch. This point only minor because BH flipped mafia and we aren't sure of Gonzaw's alignment. - MZ tells us he pushes his scumreads hard. He's been bringing up Rastaban over and over, but never really pushing him. Fine. But other reads have just entirely fallen off the table. D1 he found Chez scummy for trolling, mentioned Chez had trolled in past scum games, FoSed him, didn't seem fond. See: Chez has continued trolling. MZ's response? Nothing. No mention of Chez. No wanting to lynch Chez. In fact, Again: If Chezinu continues trolling, we kill him. Chezinu continues trolling. No desire to kill, no scumread, doesn't want VE's chez-is-mafia conspiracy. Also, for the record, VE, I'm worried about Chezinu as well. I'm hoping that he's serious about making sense, but even if he explains and stops trolling, I don't think I'm going to fully trust him. Chezinu is more town than anyone else this game. How can people want to kill him when his reads have been so accurate this game? | ||
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On July 26 2012 01:18 austinmcc wrote: I didn't remember him pushing many reads, so I went back and looked. You are right, he's got a lot of correct reads. As far as I can tell: D1 he wants to kill Gonzaw (unknown) and BH D2 his posts on Kurumi seem to indicate he's leaning town, but it's not clear. He votes for Sandroba D2, but puts him down as townie in lists at night (perhaps scum because of mirror theory, town at night because mirror theory no good with Kurumi town). N2 he's got a nice list: + Show Spoiler + On July 21 2012 13:11 Chezinu wrote: come on... you suppose to listen to me cause I'm the boss. And you wonder why you have no authority! look.. this is how you do it. You copy the list and make the names full of color. The best method is to color each name a full color. unless you are very confused. In this case I asked you to color the green and blue ones. Let's say I asked you to color the red ones. You do something like this: 1. layabout 2. Sloosh 5. HiroPro 6. Foolishness 8. Bill Murray 9. Gonzaw 10. Meapak_Ziphh 11. Supersoft 12. austinmcc 15. syllogism 16. GGQ 17. Blazinghand 20. rastaban 21. Mattchew 23. risk.nuke 26. Palmas 27. Zealos ok, you got it. Now gogogo! D3 - Votes sloosh, who he seems to find scummy throughout day, unknown. Votes palmar later, correct. You're right, his reads have been good. Very good, and better than I was thinking. But I'm worried about some of the things he has said, and I want to know whether they are the result of a particular power(s) or not. Yeah, I am thinking some kind of JOAT would work as it seems he never repeats his actions. | ||
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Voted G, to put some pressure on him, he reacted like he did when he was town in the past. I have a null on him right now, plenty of better scum to lynch today. | ||
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On July 26 2012 06:41 supersoft wrote: uh we have a tie between MZ and gonzaw :D i'll wait one more hour ^_^ ##vote MZ | ||
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Wow what interesting developments. still taking it all in. ##unvote | ||
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His flip gives us info on MZ and Supersoft... I am interested to see where this goes. | ||
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On July 27 2012 05:49 Zealos wrote: I am saying this now, I would rather have MZ killed that slOosh at this point, heck, I most wanna kill Hiro or Gonzaw atm. But we need a lynch of some kind so... Vote: slOosh I agree, MZ seems scummier but we have to lynch slOosh at some point so better than a no lynch. | ||
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On July 27 2012 06:37 slOosh wrote: I'd reconsider Zealos and rastaban after my flip. It's not the vote itself which is worrisome, but the explanation behind it. It's for the wrong motivations that they are voting for me. I'll be checking up here and there. I agree as long as Zealos goes first :D | ||
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Yours? I believe you. Your posts basically meant you had to die at some time so obviously they were town motivated. I think the supersoft thing definitely needs pursued. | ||
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On July 27 2012 06:52 slOosh wrote: Where would he rank among your reads? You said you were null on gonzaw and voted MZ. Who are the other people you think are scummy and why? No real ranking but top 4: Zealous - Hiding part of his role PM Supersoft - his reaction lol MZ - a useless Cop Claim You (as mole) | ||
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The mirror theory says Chez and Prob or VE are scum. One of the minions is either the Snoopy role or the Commuter That leaves one role left, meaning we have at least 2 of a certain role and also as of yet our real nuke has no mafia counter part. | ||
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On July 27 2012 13:19 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Great flip, it does make me almost feel like my sheriff was killed though lol! well I will probably be dying tonight but I'll make a post at the day cycle with how we need to proceed. Nice work, how do you feel about sloosh's made up Pms, you think they are based off real ones or entirely fabricated? | ||
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Here is my breadcrumb: On July 22 2012 04:57 rastaban wrote: I was snooping through some of the experienced players filters Syllogism is town it is pretty obvious Foolishness I'm sorry I doubted you for a bit. I forgot last game we played together mafia's ploy was to get you lynched. I am convinced your town now so let's work together. You are posting just like you did then with distant for poor town play an focusing on finding scum. I like it! Not sure on ggq yet, time for more research! Chezinu and sandroba are obviously town. BM is so different from himself he must be scum. If I died I had hoped people would check my filter to see who I had snooped on, it wasn't so much about confirming them as much as at least getting a bit more information out to town. As you can tell it was Sylo and Foolishness. Foolishness I figured wouldn't have been a hench man, so I knew he would message every time he had the option to, if he was scum. Sadly I misunderstood when it said that Executives couldn't have powers, and thought that Godfather would be considered a power even if it was passive. So when he flipped scum I started PMing the host until I saw that he was immune. Sorry guys, The funny thing is if I had waited a little longer I would have seen the flip and avoided that catastrophic post. Next up I checked out Q-Bert-Z, knowing he was inactive and possibly becoming more inactive I checked him so that we could hopefully ignore him and just use him as an extra town vote while he was gone. No message from him came about, combined with BM confirming that he had no day ability I think he is town, or at least we should save him till last if we can't find someone else guilty. Now my checks aren't perfect as getting no messages doesn't clear someone completely, and it is less useful on minions as they get PMmed less often. Now sadly I am very poor at guessing scum, or at least targets who message and my Sylo, Foolish, Q-Bert-Z, trio netted me zilch. As you may notice my plan was to target the more experienced players that I thought wouldn't be lynched soon. Guess what I got a message today. I decided maybe VE is right to be paranoid, so under the guise of friendship I stuck my nose in my best friends business when lo and behold I noticed a message. Now let me tell you friends this I expected, as he had been open about his dealing with other players. But remember friends I am a snooper, I Picked up the fairly comical letter and decided to go make a copy and that is when I saw it. A crumpled piece of paper, part of it had been burned so I couldn't make out the full message, but some remained intact. Was he sending this message or receiving it? Either way it didn't matter. I had been told he could only send one message, and their was no one else who could send them except that awful guy in the board of marketing. This man I trusted and had called friend, was either was the chairman of marketing or else he was taking orders from him! I then realized the chairman certainly couldn't have sent the first message so this man was working for marketing, How sublime to catch him red handed, though I cried dark viscous black tears from the cold heartless betrayal he had plied upon me! I thought to wait to share what I had to save my own skin, but then I realized my time here at PCP has not been very helpful, I have been a nosy but lackluster employee. Perhaps I could die tonight and save someone who though lacking in powers was much more useful like a sylo and with only 1-3 names even sent I doubt I am on the list anyway. I decided that the more time to discuss this the better. Also only one man remains who can message So I give to you my friends the name of this rogue, this vagabond, this harlot of marketing and his name is not Walton but CHEZINU!!! I will give you the second message, the recipient of the first message can reveal it if they would like but as it has nothing game relevant and was merely trolling I will ignore it: ---Message Partially Censored--- I'm lonely. Figure it out. I don't know what it means, but really the fact that their was another message is the incriminating part. So Chez will you deny that you got two messages or will you come up with a reason for it? Addendum i.e. clues to chezinu's alignment supported by the above VE was right, why switch up playstyles when what he was doing was winning? Why did he not use his power to out mafia but save himself from supposed town head VE (paranoid) Look at how Sandroba used his power and then how chez used his. Why is chez still alive if he had all this power? Why did mafia use the keyword Chaos all the time, just like chez? Why was Foolishness the only veteran experienced player on the Scum team? So many questions so few answers. | ||
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Also the missed messages, most likely they were to scum thats why their are so many he didn't claim. This was how they would be able to upwardly communicate but it would be risky since he didn't know if scum would get them or town. Time to claim where they went Chezinu. Who got those messages you sent but didn't want to reveal, you might die now, better share that information. And the first message you sent was not a will, so tell town who they were. | ||
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What could this mean? It is from the Marketing Director. Perhaps he is trying to give chez a clue to Ahah I just figured it out. It was a clue for Chez to message the director of marketing. I lied the second PM did factor in the Director of Marketing is: Katina Beloved Katina, I know you were surprised at my alignment. I really enjoyed looking at that photo of you with your pants on your head. However, I am dead now. Speaking from the grave, I urge you to keep playing though I am not with you. I know you only enjoy playing the game because I am there. I am sorry for not logging out of my account every time I use your laptop, I simply just forget. Please forgive me. I don't want to fight with my sweet darling. Once this game is over, I hope we can play again together in a game where we are lovers. I would like you to know that I will always be there for you. See you soon in RL. Love, The Fool that is in love with you! | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:34 austinmcc wrote: Wait...you used your power on Chez. You saw that he either sent or received a message that says "I'm lonely. Figure it out." That's it? No more? Chez claimed he was a "Bossy Employee." As in:The role doesn't say one message, the role is 2 messages per cycle... Multiple messages fits his role perfectly. Don't know if fakeclaim or outted self because of bad math. Right once per half cycle, Both message were in the day half cycle. | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote: That's a very confusing post, so could you very clearly state what your role told about chezinu? I suppose letting him answer first might be better. I may have to actually read his filter. I agree that the way he has been using his power is very strange and suboptimal. My role just gives me any messages from or to that person during the day cycle. I don't know which is which but it is easy to deduce. He sent the second message I posted to Katina after he had received the first one which was the director trying to give him a clue so they could start discussing things together. Both messages were in the last day cycle, I only get them once night starts, I confirmed that it was 2 separate messages. Also the Bossy role gets 1 message a half cycle (during the day) both couldn't be from that role as I thought this too before going public. The censored message was hoe the recipient received it, thats all I know. | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:42 syllogism wrote: So you are saying Chezinu received the "I am lonely, figure it out" message and sent the latter? Yeah, I didn't think they were related at first, but it makes sense when I realized the short one had to be from the director. And why would they waste it on such a stupid message unless it was a clue. Then Chez solved it for me when I realized that is why he made that troll post. | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:44 syllogism wrote: Well this seems pretty clear then, perhaps gonzaw isn't mafia after all, somehow. That would be a shame though. Well there is still one left right | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:42 austinmcc wrote: I'm laughing too hard at that second message to think straight about this. LOL, even if he hadn't been scum it would have been worth wasting my power to catch that PM | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:50 syllogism wrote: That would explain why katina wanted to lynch gonzaw today. At first glance most things do seem to make sense with chezinu/q-bert-z/katina as the remaining mafia. Why is Chezinu mentioned on the OP? Why does it say he is a reporter when he claims his role is Bossy Employee? OP was written before He /in I beleive. | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:52 marvellosity wrote: so, who is it best play to lynch today? I would say Chez, as it also verifies I am not lying. Katina could flip town if the clue was misinterpreted (very Unlikely) and it wouldn't give as much info on chez and I. | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote: also rastaban, that does explain that Foolishness comment you made. I really thought that was the weirdest shit for you to write. LOL, yeah I wanted to embelish so it didn't look like a breadcrumb too obviously unless viewed after my death. However he was scum and so I ended up looking "foolish" hur hur | ||
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On July 28 2012 00:06 HiroPro wrote: Wait, so the second message that you said was just trolling is the Katina one? Yeah, I thought he was just trolling, until I realized it was him sending that to Katina to show he had guessed the clue sent. Even if he was wrong the recipient wouldn't know about the short censored message and would think that chez was just trolling, but really he was fishing for the director. | ||
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http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowldc/cnns-jim-walton-resigns_b79823 | ||
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On July 28 2012 01:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Also if Chez flips town (I think he should be our lynch tomorrow for the x6) we should IMMEDIATELY flip rastaban for lying to our faces. I agree, I can go first, but I really want to keep our streak up if possible | ||
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On July 27 2012 23:37 rastaban wrote: I'm lonely. Figure it out. What could this mean? It is from the Marketing Director. Perhaps he is trying to give chez a clue to Ahah I just figured it out. It was a clue for Chez to message the director of marketing. I lied the second PM did factor in the Director of Marketing is: Katina | ||
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On July 28 2012 02:12 austinmcc wrote: Oh. So that was one and then the other one was nothing more than "I'm lonely, figure it out?" Yes. "I'm lonely, figure it out?" was sent first. Notice the first part is censored, so they can't reveal names. It was Katina trying to drop a clue as to who she is so Chez could start using his power to message her. Chez figures out that Katina is the one since she would be lonely with Foolishness dead. So he sends the big response, but makes it vague enough that it looks like trolling in case he guessed wrong. | ||
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On July 28 2012 03:30 gonzaw wrote: o_O what the...? Okay, if I get this correctly, rastaban claims that last day cycle (Day 4), there were 2 messages sent and received by Chezinu, right? So Chezinu received the 1st message first (from someone), then sent the 2nd one to Katina? The 2nd message could have been sent by Chezinu, since he has that power.....but the 1st one had to be sent from mafia since there isn't any other similar messaging role out, which can only happen if Chezinu is minion since he received the message... ....wow The "he figured out Katina was her executive" bit makes sense, although it's possible Chezinu thought Katina was her executive and was wrong. However I agree it's likely Katina is the executive herself, so this makes more sense. Well shit I don't know :/ I guess it's possible Zealos is town (somehow) and derped that sandro message (somehow). But if QBertz is scum, then he didn't send or receive any message when rastaban checked him, which he would have if he was scum. I forgot about BM as well, who claimed Qbertz has no abilities, making him either town or executive. But if QBertz was executive surely he would have sent a message to one of his minions when rastaban checked him. That Mole thing is incriminating though, but maybe it has something to do with his role (and he knew about the mole somehow?) or it was a coincidence? Isn't QBertz getting replaced or something? Fuck Qbert likely has a night power, so thats why he didn't get anything, I also checked him and he didn't get any messages but since he was leaving it is likely they weren't messaging him on that particular day. | ||
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On July 28 2012 03:41 gonzaw wrote: Oh I didn't know that (thought it was a whole ability, not just day ones). If that's the case, then I guess it's more likely he's scum because he knew of the mole, but I have a hard time thinking Zealos is town. Meh, we can deal with it later, it's giving me a headache right now. yeah, I am kind of sad that both Zealos and Kurumi may end up being town after Sandroba's great PM trick. Really was town that gullible to hide random PMs?. | ||
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On July 28 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: Rastaban when did chezinu receive/send messages, day 3? Did you get the order of those messages? What ever the cycle before this one was, (4 I think) They did not say they were in any order or not, but they were listed in reverse which would match chezinu saying I had them backwards. | ||
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On July 28 2012 06:00 austinmcc wrote: If Chezinu is scum, then responding with PS the order is backwards would be a rather odd response. Yeah i agree, but we still end up with who is the other person with messaging powers. | ||
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On July 28 2012 06:07 austinmcc wrote: I'm charming rasta. You certainly are Thanks for fixing my mistake. Looks like I would have had us killing the wrong guys | ||
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On July 28 2012 06:47 syllogism wrote: I don't really want people to believe his PMs were real, which heavily incriminates some of us when it actually doesn' (since he's not the real mole, you should know that by now....or he is and is very stupid and everything here is a giant coincidence, whatever). To be honest, that sounds exactly like gonzaw lol[/QUOTE] The fact it's so blatantly gonzaw (and it's too hard to fake) is the one thing that makes me doubt my "it's a fake message" theory.[/QUOTE] I can confirm that at the very least Austincc has the same snoop PM I received, as I thought the same thing. However, with my theory I was bothered a bit that mafia didn't know each other yet, and the consored message was so short. Surely they would have come up with a way to find each other by now and to top it off they would likely have much more to say than a short line. Still, where the other message came from is baffling. | ||
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On July 28 2012 06:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Gonzaw. Him or Risk. it will confirm Austin's role. If they flip town then we can start looking at the chez, katina theory again.... | ||
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Q-bert-Z should be our last go to right now as it doesn't confirm Austin's version. | ||
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On July 28 2012 06:56 syllogism wrote: No we don't know that if there is a mafia role that can make it appear someone got a message they actually didn't, which is why I would rather lynch katina/gonzaw first. If katina is a minion as it appears, her role may provide some information. I see, so you think mafia might have sent that to risk as the messenger? then who messaged Chezinu? do you they have 2 messengers? | ||
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We already saw Kurumi and Zealos didn't post in much more questionable situations. | ||
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On July 28 2012 09:18 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: While we wait... Obviously town. | ||
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On July 28 2012 12:16 Q-bert-Z wrote: In before modkill. Who am I voting? Probably gonzaw, but day hasn't started yet | ||
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"Fire your nuke! Its time to die. They are on to you! Your gonna die!!!! Its all over! Its all over!!! Whatever you do, do not fire the nuke on rasta!!!" | ||
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##vote Gonzaw ##vote for a 24 hours cycle today | ||
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On July 30 2012 08:33 gonzaw wrote: ^^ I don't get what the "I'm charming" thing has to do with anything You wouldn't because you aren't a snoop. It's how I can confirm he is a snoop too. There is an off chance that he is a scum snoop, and if you flip town it is something we will address but until that happens I a supporting Austin. | ||
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