Bureaucracy Mafia!

Extra Information:
The mafia kill process goes like this:
Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline.

On July 17 2012 00:08 Kurumi wrote:

Cycle is day-night. Half cycle is either day or night. They probably can communicate right now. Mind you, that's only 3 messages. CEO-High Rank-Minion and High Rank-Minion.

On July 17 2012 00:14 HiroPro wrote:


Bah, I thought it meant halfway through the day/night. I guess that kinda takes away the reactions we could get from the random lynch then.

On July 17 2012 13:33 Mattchew wrote:

How are his actions scummy?

On July 17 2012 23:23 Palmar wrote:


I share a lot of his initial reads and opinions. using his block against chezinu says nothing about his alignment as it's the only way he can respond, although I guess waiting for a mod to confirm the nuke would've been smarter. But I don't think BH is particularly smart, but he's loud and useful.

On July 17 2012 11:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm kinda hamstrung until rastaban gets back so in the meantime I'll throw my name in with the people who want BH dead.


BH is really just going for whoever is currently the flavor of the hour, if you look at his posts he's simply flipped whenever thread opinion has changed. Also his reasons for voting people have been very sheepy, he's been gunning for syllo for the better part of the game but all of a sudden bugs waltzes in with a case and BH flips again.

##Unvote
##Vote: Blazinghand

On July 18 2012 03:29 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:


You've been very careful and useless so far this game however I don't think I could have made a convincing case on you with your 4 or so posts you had at the time I made my post. You've subsequently posted a little more however they've been just as worthless. I don't think I have enough time to get you lynched today but I'll definitely make a move tomorrow.
...

On July 18 2012 04:44 austinmcc wrote:
I have no name cache here, that's fine. But read this with an open mind. Seriously read point (1). Consider whether it makes sense.

(1) Sandroba's role is way, way, way too powerful
Not a single person here knows how sandroba's power works. Mafia, town, 5th party, whatever. Nobody is curious?

Nobody is thinking, jeez, in a game where mafia cannot communicate except through 2 messages per day cycle, 2 messages per night cycle, and there are NINE of them. A game where they might lynch each other, NK each other, use powers on each other. Nobody is going, holy balls, the ability to SEND FAKE MESSAGES is an incredibly, incredibly powerful role?

Think about it. The way sandroba used it, he's a cop. You ask someone to do something, if they do, they must have assumed it was from a mafia higher-up. So if they obey, they're mafia, you got this game's equivalent of a red check. Moreover, you're a cop that cannot be affected by any kind of framing power. Normal cops can be balanced out by gfs, millers, frames. A red check from a normal cop may or may not indicate scum. Saying "Hey use these 3 phrases in your next post to identify yourself" CANNOT be balanced by any mechanic at all. If they obey a message they received, when they had no idea anyone other than mafia could send messages, they must be mafia. Name a single other explanation, because when kurumi tried to give one, it sounded dumb and everyone agreed it sounded dumb.

Moreover, he's not just a cop. He can check people with that power, AND direct their actions. Not only does he know they're red when they follow orders, he can actively direct mafia action because messages are anonymous. He gets a red check AND gets to direct the actions of a mafia member, tell them who to go after, who to defend, etc.

Oh man, austinmcc, that DOES sound pretty powerful now that I think about it. He's a supercop that can't get false checks in a game where mafia have limited communication?

---

(2) Sandroba has played scum IN a sleeper cell game in which a powerful role fakeclaim helped win the game
Well, surely he wouldn't claim such a powerful role, right? He'd wait to use it a few more times. I mean, checks AND mafia action disruption, you'd want to keep that secret. Unless, of course, you'd played in another game where a ridiculous check helped win you the game. You know, like, say, Sleeper Cell Mafia. The game where sandroba rolled mafia with Ace as cell leader and Ace claimed the following role:
Ace skated by after claiming this, with the only person who was suspicious of his claim being another cell member. In the postgame, there was a decent bit of discussion about how town should have questioned Ace's claim given that he could (1) intercept messages and (2) shoot. Sandroba's claimed power is basically on about that level, because he's a combination cop and...disruptor? There's no name for that other role as far as I know. It's basically a townie who gets to sit in mafia QT but isn't mafia.

---

(3) Sandroba showed balls as a sleeper agent in that same game
Ace claimed to have shot GGQ N3. There was only one kill. Sandroba, as scum, claimed vet on D4 in order to account for the missing KP. So we KNOW he's got the balls to fakeclaim as scum in this style of game. We know that having those balls won him a game, as scum, in this style of game.

---

---

Maybe I'm being paranoid. But maybe that role is a little overpowered to be in a balanced game. Maybe sandroba can play ballsy as scum in this sort of game. Maybe, even if the role isn't overpowered, Sandroba should be smart enough not to out himself because he caught 1/9 of the mafia team with a role that friggin' powerful. Wouldn't you keep that to yourself and catch more? Wouldn't you catch more and actively disrupt mafia communication/actions?

THAT is why I wanted Sandroba to claim. That is why I find him scummy. Get offa mah nuts, because if you actually think about his role, you should be questioning it too. Either scum have RIDICULOUSLY powerful roles to balance things out, or town simply cannot have a guy who ends up being an uncounterable cop PLUS can actively plant fake mafia communications.

On July 18 2012 12:26 Mattchew wrote:
I think Gonzaw is overwhelmed (not enough time) and that very much plays into why his meta would seem off. His confidence seems to be gone without being able to be the most dominant (usually by sheer volume) poster in the thread. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this little filter out of him and I think this all stems from not having enough time. I think his reactions and posts are sincere and truthful

On July 18 2012 22:31 marvellosity wrote:
Now do you see why everyone was shouting at RoL? ^_^

As for scum given how blatant their behavior seems I think the simplest route is to kill the confirmed ones first and then the scumreads that multiple people agree upon.

Right now ignoring Zealos and Kurumi that looks like:

Foolishness
GGQ
Meapak
Layabout

And potentially:
Katina

On July 18 2012 07:45 wherebugsgo wrote:
man why must this always be so hard -_-

Maybe the safest choice is killing layabout after all

On July 17 2012 06:32 layabout wrote:
If sandroba can message people why did he reveal his power after outing a single player that he could have pushed without revealing his power?

On July 17 2012 07:00 layabout wrote:
Sandro why did you claim that you could trick mafia into revealing themselves when you had only tricked one player?

PSA:
No talking to kurumi and spamming up the thread!

On July 17 2012 07:00 layabout wrote:
Sandro why did you claim that you could trick mafia into revealing themselves when you had only tricked one player?

PSA:
No talking to kurumi and spamming up the thread!

On July 18 2012 03:04 layabout wrote:
bah Sandro town Kurumi scum.

I must be over thinking things since none of you questioned mafia following a two line message of questionable intent when mafia can only have sent up to 3 messages that could have been as long as they liked and would have been their only method of communication.

Are we ignoring the nuke and just killing Kurumi then?

---

lol

On July 18 2012 10:35 layabout wrote:
Not game relevant:

I think i am going to take a break from TL mafia. I had looked forward to this game for some time but now it's happening i can't bring myself to care. At some point during the last game something inside just snapped. There were a number of reasons for it and i was going to make a thread but then real life kicked in and i haven't had the time. Yesterday was my first day back to myself and i spent most of it away from my computer and most of my computer time on Blacklight: Retibution.

In spite of this i hate nothing more than asshats that don't play or people that are exempt from trying/playing because "It's player soandso" so i will try.

After i die i will bugger off.

---

I began writing a long post but i am tired and it reads like dogpoo.

Following sandro since the last time... well it worked out pretty well for town.
##vote gonzaw

I am not sure how he can think that both foolishness and syllogism are scum. He seems to be looking at the thread from a very different viewpoint.

On July 20 2012 00:04 Kurumi wrote:

Why layabout isn't scum? You haven't given many reasons for most of your reads so far.

I guess I'm also reconsidering layabout. It'd be very low play from him to write that frustration post to get stuff off him as mafia, and I genuinely don't think he's an asshole.

On July 20 2012 11:30 Katina wrote:
VE: Then we will lynch Zealos D3, honey. That doesn't mean the town has to run all over the place with their votes. The Mafia aren't going anywhere, we have to lynch them one at a time.

Not knowing what other powers scum have is not something we should be focusing on right now. That's not going to make them suddenly pop into our minds. We will find out like we always do and that's when they use it. It's impossible to know anything before hand. Kurumi has already used his power when he nuked RebithOfLegend. I understand that Zealos might have a power too but I think that's farfetched considering the amount of nukes and blocks going off D1. Right now we should keep our votes on Kurumi and continue to make cases on others that are scummy then decide who our D3 lynch should be when night falls and Kurumi's alignment is revealed.

On July 20 2012 11:40 Chezinu wrote:

Do you know what blazinghand and VE have in common? They both said ##block.

PS: blazinghand is bad at blocking. So, what does that make of VE?

On July 20 2012 11:54 Katina wrote:


I do know but people have been saying many different things about why the want to lynch Zealos and I'm saying switching votes now is not a good idea.

On July 20 2012 12:38 Katina wrote:


Only two people have switched as I said before there is no garauntee that enough people will switch over to ensure his lynch. We are already lynching a Mafia member, no need to cause distruption to that right now.

On July 20 2012 12:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh, reason. <3

TBH if we're switching I'd want to switch to Foolishness anyway. Skidoosh?

So....I'm gonna go read WBG's posts right now. I want someone else to do the same. Anyone can, but I'm doing it too.

Hypothesis: WBG was killed for a reason.

On July 20 2012 13:49 VisceraEyes wrote:

VisceraEyes Attempt At Night-Kill Analysis

First, the reason I've done this: the mafia kill mechanic.



So, here's my theory: this night-kill holds significance because A) I haven't done this analysis yet and B) This night is the most likely that the CEO does not know who his minions are yet.

The information that the CEO has, as I understand it, is the names of his two Executives. And the information that the Executives have are the names of the minions.

But all mafia but the CEO must submit a name for the night-kill.

So this means 2 things. 1) that the night-kills will more likely have an actual reason other than "to throw town off" or "blue snipe" and 2) that the CEO gets information on who his minions are by who they want to kill.

Given all of this, my assumption is that Blazinghand is Mafia. First of all, just so we're clear, I do NOT have the ability to block nukes. Nothing stops a nuke. It's a nuke. I guess it's possible, but I very seriously doubt it for two reasons. 1) because RoL had a dud nuke. It never had a chance of exploding, ever. And 2) Because as Bugs commented earlier - if BH was town and had a block available, he would have blocked Kurumi's nuke the moment he found out that Kurumi was scum. Regardless of the fact that scum minions don't know who each other are, it is a net gain for town to prevent mafia from achieving their objectives. Period. Kurumi could have been under direct orders to fire that nuke for all we know.

So right now I'm looking at something like...

Kurumi, Zealos, Foolishness, Blazinghand

...if we're talking about my like...really heavy strong scum reads. Layabout is still up there, and here's something else I found that was interesting:




Which further makes me question my read on marvellosity to be honest. Starting to think marvellosity is scum too, because layabout goes unnoticed by marvellosity in spite of




...being the reason marv gave for agreeing with MZ's case. Considering marv's high regard for Bugs as a player, I'd expect a town marv to be all up on layabout after Bugs post on him. But Bugs must have been killed for a reason.



tl:dr -

• Blazinghand is Mafia
• I think marvellosity and layabout are suspicious based on my reread.
• I do not have a nuke-block.
• Skidoosh.

On July 20 2012 14:01 Chezinu wrote:

wow, people are actually understanding me this game... First Prob and now you..

##block: Chezinu

I was hoping not to have to use this.

On July 20 2012 23:56 risk.nuke wrote:

Does anyone think this makes sense.

On July 21 2012 00:02 marvellosity wrote:


I think he was referring (I was) that it's a good idea to get sandroba to PM someone of town's choosing

On July 21 2012 00:13 Palmar wrote:


No it doesn't.

Do you think this increases the chances of rastaban being mafia?

On July 21 2012 01:49 Foolishness wrote:

Well you should have seen it a lot of earlier. Can you give me a name of someone who makes more sense? I can only think of two people in which you can make an argument for.

It's fine to discuss potential lynch targets, the issue is that it is day two and literally every player has been accused. There's absolutely zero focus. One page people are talking about Zealos, 3 pages later it's about Chezinu. With so many cases it's hard to tell who is actually trying to make a case (townies) and who's just fueling the fire (mafia). From what I can see though the people of interest in this regard are Blazinghand (should be obvious by now), marvellosity, and HiroPro. supersoft, Mattchew, Probulous, Palmar and yourself are somewhat guilty but not to the same extent.

On July 21 2012 03:10 Foolishness wrote:

Your "case" against him is taking things completely out of context. Zealos said early on he didn't like the BH lynch cause it was overtunneled and had weak reasons. He changed his opinion later on and he even said so and gave a reason why. I'm pretty sure I can find at least two other people who didn't like the BH lynch at first either but then changed their minds later (Probulous and VE come to my mind, correct me if I'm wrong though).

What's the rest of your case about? It seems to me to be all about not voting BH and then deciding to vote him. He clearly explained himself (yeah I agree not the best explanation in the world, but you're nitpicking at nothing).

Again, post a case otherwise there's no reason to be talking about lynching this guy.

On July 21 2012 03:23 Foolishness wrote:
sandroba didn't send Kurumi a PM

On July 21 2012 05:45 Kurumi wrote:
You are getting this all wrong syllogism. If I flip mafia (which I won't) then sandroba's actions are nullified. Then you need to back your actual reads with analysis. When I flip Town, then it becomes transparent that sandroba's Town(there is a chance he's a minion with a wonky power, but... that'd hurt my head.)
Sandie, I've never asked: Why did you pick me to send this message?

On July 21 2012 06:12 Blazinghand wrote:


Well, even if Kurumi was a non-obvious choice, Zealos was a solid one, and he has 1/3 chance of hitting scum.

On July 21 2012 06:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kurumi was a piss-poor choice, as Probulous pointed out. Kurumi was likely to pretend to be mafia regardless of his alignment as far as I'm concerned, so that makes that particular choice terrible.

Zealos was decent IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR MINIONS...but Sandro has been onboard with Operation: CEObliterate since inception...it doesn't make sense that he'd try and fool ZEALOS if he's hunting for Executives.

On July 21 2012 06:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Everyone please think of the kill structure for a moment.

The CEO must kill someone off the list of names submitted by his underlings

This means he cannot just choose someone at random, he has a list he has to pick from.

And he chose WBG from that list rather than Sandroba, the wily scum-hunting messenger? HONESTLY GUYS?! REALLY?!

On July 21 2012 09:35 layabout wrote:
For all intents and purposes sandroba is town.

This game requires half of the thread to agree on a lynch. Kurumi is near confirmed scum.
+ Show Spoiler +

And yet there are 5 votes not on Kurumi! We are going to need focus more and we are going to need to stop joking around with votes and thread actions.

Palmar and Foolishness are calling syllogism mafia. Syllogism in turn is calling both Palmar and Foolishness mafia. Many of you insist on speculating that the host will have made the CEO one of these players (or sandroba or Meapak). It is always dangerous to make decisions based upon out-guessing the host. But if we are aiming to kill the CEO we should plac e our attention on those 3 players.

If we are looking for the person most likely to flip scum tomorrow we need look no further tahn our good friend zealos. I defended him initially but his actions since then show that he is either a mafia or a townie that isn't playing.

READ:

Before sandroba revealed that he had messaged zealos WBG considered zealos to be as likely scum as Kurumi. He did not explain his reasons explicitly but he expressed this opinion and we would be wise not to forget it.

It's useful to have a meta assessment so:


What was the most sgnificant event during day1?
+ Show Spoiler [Answer] +
Everyone should have paid their attention to that and thought about the various possibilities since for a time that event would have decided that days lynch and is deciding today lynch. It was your responsibility as town.

But are we to believe that until this morning zealos was unaware of the whole thing?

Zealos placed his first vote against austinmcc


He says nothing about austinmcc specifically and yet he feels that the only thing needed to justify his vote was thread momentum. At that time a few players were calling austinmcc scummy but there was nothing substantial said at all and he had very few votes. Zealos' vote was lazy and shows that he was trying to fit in rather than trying to get a successful lynch. It sounds a lot like the Zealos that HiroPro descibed.


So Zealos still was not reading the thread since austinmcc did not have a decent case against him and his comment about Kurumi demonstrates a complete lack of thread knowledge.

He also picks out Blazinghand not for being scummy but for being "odd". Which is strange since there should be enuogh players for him to find something that is scummy and not simply "odd".


I will simply re-post:


And what has he done?
Well he spent just long enough in the thread to have sandroba's message explained to him. He contributed nothing of his own and has not been productive. He is mafia.

##tomorrow we should vote zealos

On July 22 2012 11:54 HiroPro wrote:
BTW guys, notice the awesome role that Zealos claimed (along with the whole nonsense he had with his reads and the sandroba PM that he failed to bring to the thread)? It should be almost certain that he is mafia at this point.

On July 23 2012 10:41 slOosh wrote:


My point with VE was that he exposed Foolishness' contradiction, which held a lot of weight because my town read on him rested on my agreement with his BM case - that he wasn't wasting his time screwing around.

Up to that point the majority of what I saw against Foolishness was meta reads from all the vets who knew each other, not something strong enough that I would shoot on - yet the line of questioning showed that he would so easily drop his BM case in a situation where the question where the lynch options were on equal ground, i.e. not an issue of consolidation.

---

The point I was bringing up with Chezinu was that BM was pushing me on really flimsy grounds.

He blaming me for not seriously considering all of Chezinu's claims which is ridiculous, and demeans my reads on that alone. I never thought Chezinu was town; when I said a couple of his posts seemed insightful I was drawing a contrast that even he was putting in some effort, whereas Bill Murray had shown no insight and no interest in the game. If I ever threw muck at his name it was unintentional dismissal of an intentionally abstruse person who was making it difficult to read the thread.

In light of the recent events however, it has become clear that Chezinu is someone worth focusing on due to his abilities, which is why I said

I doubt one person could have multiple abilities like so, which is why I asked for confirmation in case I misunderstood something.

---

As for the concerns of my role's plausibility: that's what I got. I can't shoot unless mafia haven't died in 1.5 cycles. If it's a really weird / unlikely role, I can't help it. It's what I got.

On July 24 2012 06:30 gonzaw wrote:
Well shit, Palmar's claim doesn't make much sense actually.
If he was Copycat he'd get Rol's role like other people said; if he could choose which role to get it'd be very powerful, and he would have likely chosen Kurumi's role instead (once Kurumi died), since he knew Kurumi had a nuke since D1.

His posting on D2 doesn't see like a scum Palmar to me, would a scum Palmar put effort like that?

Him just giving up right now is not making things any easier.
I'll likely change my vote to him to consolidate, but I won't just sheep a vote on someone I'm not sure is scum so I want some more explanations first.

On July 24 2012 08:04 gonzaw wrote:
I expected someone to answer me by now :/
@Prob: Will you answer what I posted before?

*sigh*

You guys better be right, I don't have a good feeling about this

##Unvote: Zealos
##Vote: Palmar

I'm going to the gym now and I think I'll be back right before the deadline.

On July 24 2012 23:59 Mattchew wrote:
Syllo style working backwards time

layabout
sloosh
HiroPro
Bill Murray
Gonzaw
Meapak_Ziphh
austinmcc
Katina
rastaban
marvellosity
risk.nuke
Q-bert-Z
Zealos

I took out all dead people, and anyone I consider strongest town reads (syllo super prob VE chez)

Next lets take off the list people I dont think are possible lynches for today (this will be biased)
Bill Murray
austinmcc
risk.nuke
marvellosity
Gonzaw

This leaves us with
layabout
sloosh
hiropro
Meapak_Ziphh
Katina
Rastaban
Q-bert-Z
Zealos

With me believing Sloosh's claim and Q-bert-Z's excuse

This leaves our remaining scum team

probable Execs - MZ and Foolishness's Girlfriend
probable minions - layabout, hiropro, Rastaban, Zealos

On July 24 2012 05:03 Mattchew wrote:
I am voting Palmar.

I unintentionally saved BH from a day 1 lynch.

Sandroba saying Palmar was the best reason I could find, and I trust that sandroba is smarter than I.

My vote is late and meaningless, but it does help ensure a lynch.

##vote: Palmar

On July 24 2012 09:07 Mattchew wrote:

Cause honestly I have had a null tell on Palmar and agreed with him throughout this entire game... Also, I was wondering if scum would weed out their high level members for us (killing the town vets first thus if Palmar or syllo or MZ were alive like day 5 or 6, they'd be very very very likely scum... but idk these aren't exactly arguments that counter the case you made and sandroba and syllos reads on palmar

On July 24 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote:
Prob I find/found it weird that you were unwilling to discuss Katina with me. Usually you and Gonzaw are both extremely longwinded and willing to type out your thoughts on literally anything at anytime. With so many votes on Palmar he was/is set to be lynched and you STILL refused to answer questions about her. There is something different about you this game

On July 24 2012 09:18 Mattchew wrote:

Lol you forget that other cases may be as good if not stronger than yours. Didn't you chastise (or atleast allow people to chastise) me for doing the exact same thing to my strongest read Katina? I don't see you revoking my claims in order to push my vote onto Palmar. Why should I do something that you are not willing to do yourself?

On July 19 2012 00:01 Mattchew wrote:
If I could have one wish, it would be to see these people dead in the upcoming daypost

Kurumi - sandroba out'd scum
Katina - read my filter
Meapak_Ziphh - Prob pointed out how timid and passive he was posting
Rastaban - Literally just looking out for himself
Foolishness - this is not the play of someone that has been voted the best scum hunter on TL
Bill Murray
Chezinu

On July 25 2012 00:19 Mattchew wrote:
That was a combination post of who to lynch, that turned into a reads post lol

On July 25 2012 00:53 marvellosity wrote:


matt's not the only one who has listed like that on more than one occasion. Why pick on him and not the others? (e.g. supersoft, katina)

On July 25 2012 01:00 Mattchew wrote:
Lol at rasta not knowing how to look at times of posts

On July 25 2012 01:13 Mattchew wrote:
My reads + others reads

On July 25 2012 03:05 syllogism wrote:
Really katina, I'm a null read? That's amazing

On July 25 2012 03:13 supersoft wrote:


you realize, that syllo and i (and VE to some extend, he however killed bh) were the driving force behind foolishness and palmars deaths? lurking? do you even read the thread?

On July 25 2012 03:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
Guys there's something strange going on with Chez.

He's promising to "shape up" now? Really?

We just killed 3 scum in one cycle. THREE SCUM IN ONE CYCLE.

Whatever the piss we're doing, we're doing it right. Now isn't the time to change things up, if you're a townie.

Conversely if you're scum, something is going horribly horribly wrong.

Between the two, who do you think is more likely to change it up and "shape up" now?

On July 25 2012 03:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Scum don't know other scum. Lest we forget. Scumhunting doesn't clear you syllo.

I'm a little salty about no one listening to me but meh...maybe you will listen to a dead guy.

On July 25 2012 09:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh and rastaban. I don't like him either. GRRRZZZZZZZ

On July 25 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote:
I think that's particularly pointless speculation rastaban.

On July 26 2012 00:53 austinmcc wrote:
Gonzaw

- His early stuff does look like he's not around to play.
- While he's defended BH and Palmar, they were on opposite sides of the mafia heirarchy, and he was finding them both town relatively early, so it's not like he's been caught defending 2 or 3 minions that all fell on one side of the tree.
- He went after Foolishness with some decent content.
- His vote yesterday still strikes me as off. Complaining that people won't answer your one question when there's already a majority and you've not been a driving force this game (could see high-activity Gonzaw feeling like people should answer his questions) doesn't sit well with me.

Yesterday's post right before his vote, where he complains that nobody will answer his question and he doesn't feel good about the lynch, is the scummiest part of his filter for me. Worse than the late vote and sheeping. But it's not as bad as MZ.

---

MZ

I'm not even looking at the Palmar crap on MZ. MZ looks bad all by himself.

D1 - When I first read this, I liked it. We had so many cases and suspicions flying around early that our D1 was massive and it's tough to pick out the good from the bad. 2/3 the thread probably got accused of being scum on D1.

MZ gives what I think is a variation on that train of thought in his response to VE - + Show Spoiler + - No reason to push extra cases, no reason to interfere with good lynches and drive things off track.

Yet, here's MZ on D2 during the Kurumi lynchHere, MZ encourages EVERYONE to throw out "their various cases." It's not 100% contradictory to his past stances, but it doesn't mesh with them. If MZ thinks that adding cases on people other than the main lynch target(s) is a bad idea for him, then why is it a good idea for everyone to throw out every case? Maybe because it worked so well D1. Not only did we no-lynch, but there are also so many cases and suspicions D1 that it's difficult to wade through. If D2 looks the same, with everyone calling out everyone, then that's another day that will be very difficult to sort back through later on.


That's the main reason I'm finding him scummy - doesn't want to spam/derail thread with cases, asks everyone to do that D2.

---

Little other points, some of which others have pointed out (I think?):

- Minor: MZ active N1 pushing consolidation onto Gonzaw, then pushing consolidation onto BH. Foolishness may have been CEO, but he wasn't bullshitting when saying that a couple mass switches late is a recipe for a no-lynch. MZ helped push switches, mafia wants no-lynch. This point only minor because BH flipped mafia and we aren't sure of Gonzaw's alignment.
- MZ tells us he pushes his scumreads hard. He's been bringing up Rastaban over and over, but never really pushing him. Fine. But other reads have just entirely fallen off the table. D1 he found Chez scummy for trolling, mentioned Chez had trolled in past scum games, FoSed him, didn't seem fond. See:
Chez has continued trolling. MZ's response? Nothing. No mention of Chez. No wanting to lynch Chez. In fact, Again: If Chezinu continues trolling, we kill him. Chezinu continues trolling. No desire to kill, no scumread, doesn't want VE's chez-is-mafia conspiracy.

---

---

Also, for the record, VE, I'm worried about Chezinu as well. I'm hoping that he's serious about making sense, but even if he explains and stops trolling, I don't think I'm going to fully trust him.

On July 26 2012 01:18 austinmcc wrote:

I didn't remember him pushing many reads, so I went back and looked. You are right, he's got a lot of correct reads. As far as I can tell:

D1 he wants to kill Gonzaw (unknown) and BH

D2 his posts on Kurumi seem to indicate he's leaning town, but it's not clear. He votes for Sandroba D2, but puts him down as townie in lists at night (perhaps scum because of mirror theory, town at night because mirror theory no good with Kurumi town).

N2 he's got a nice list: + Show Spoiler + We know that so far, that list is 4 correct, 1 incorrect, 4 unknown

D3 - Votes sloosh, who he seems to find scummy throughout day, unknown. Votes palmar later, correct.

You're right, his reads have been good. Very good, and better than I was thinking. But I'm worried about some of the things he has said, and I want to know whether they are the result of a particular power(s) or not.

On July 26 2012 06:41 supersoft wrote:
uh we have a tie between MZ and gonzaw :D i'll wait one more hour ^_^

On July 27 2012 05:49 Zealos wrote:
I am saying this now, I would rather have MZ killed that slOosh at this point, heck, I most wanna kill Hiro or Gonzaw atm. But we need a lynch of some kind so...
Vote: slOosh

On July 27 2012 06:37 slOosh wrote:

I'd reconsider Zealos and rastaban after my flip. It's not the vote itself which is worrisome, but the explanation behind it. It's for the wrong motivations that they are voting for me. I'll be checking up here and there.

On July 27 2012 06:42 slOosh wrote:

Any thoughts on the actual PMs?

On July 27 2012 06:52 slOosh wrote:

Where would he rank among your reads? You said you were null on gonzaw and voted MZ. Who are the other people you think are scummy and why?

On July 27 2012 13:19 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Great flip, it does make me almost feel like my sheriff was killed though lol!

well I will probably be dying tonight but I'll make a post at the day cycle with how we need to proceed.

On July 22 2012 04:57 rastaban wrote:
I was snooping through some of the experienced players filters
Syllogism is town it is pretty obvious
Foolishness I'm sorry I doubted you for a bit. I forgot last game we played together mafia's ploy was to get you lynched. I am convinced your town now so let's work together. You are posting just like you did then with distant for poor town play an focusing on finding scum. I like it!

Not sure on ggq yet, time for more research!
Chezinu and sandroba are obviously town.
BM is so different from himself he must be scum.

---Message Partially Censored---
I'm lonely. Figure it out.

Beloved Katina,

I know you were surprised at my alignment. I really enjoyed looking at that photo of you with your pants on your head. However, I am dead now. Speaking from the grave, I urge you to keep playing though I am not with you. I know you only enjoy playing the game because I am there. I am sorry for not logging out of my account every time I use your laptop, I simply just forget. Please forgive me. I don't want to fight with my sweet darling. Once this game is over, I hope we can play again together in a game where we are lovers. I would like you to know that I will always be there for you. See you soon in RL.

Love,
The Fool that is in love with you!

On July 27 2012 23:34 austinmcc wrote:
Wait...you used your power on Chez. You saw that he either sent or received a message that says "I'm lonely. Figure it out." That's it? No more?

Chez claimed he was a "Bossy Employee." As in:The role doesn't say one message, the role is 2 messages per cycle...

Multiple messages fits his role perfectly. Don't know if fakeclaim or outted self because of bad math.

On July 27 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote:
That's a very confusing post, so could you very clearly state what your role told about chezinu? I suppose letting him answer first might be better.

I may have to actually read his filter. I agree that the way he has been using his power is very strange and suboptimal.

On July 27 2012 23:42 syllogism wrote:
So you are saying Chezinu received the "I am lonely, figure it out" message and sent the latter?

On July 27 2012 23:44 syllogism wrote:
Well this seems pretty clear then, perhaps gonzaw isn't mafia after all, somehow. That would be a shame though.

On July 27 2012 23:42 austinmcc wrote:
I'm laughing too hard at that second message to think straight about this.

On July 27 2012 23:50 syllogism wrote:
That would explain why katina wanted to lynch gonzaw today. At first glance most things do seem to make sense with chezinu/q-bert-z/katina as the remaining mafia. Why is Chezinu mentioned on the OP? Why does it say he is a reporter when he claims his role is Bossy Employee?

On July 27 2012 23:52 marvellosity wrote:
so, who is it best play to lynch today?

On July 27 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:
also rastaban, that does explain that Foolishness comment you made. I really thought that was the weirdest shit for you to write.

On July 28 2012 00:06 HiroPro wrote:
Wait, so the second message that you said was just trolling is the Katina one?

On July 28 2012 01:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also if Chez flips town (I think he should be our lynch tomorrow for the x6) we should IMMEDIATELY flip rastaban for lying to our faces.

On July 27 2012 23:37 rastaban wrote:
I'm lonely. Figure it out.

What could this mean? It is from the Marketing Director. Perhaps he is trying to give chez a clue to

Ahah I just figured it out. It was a clue for Chez to message the director of marketing. I lied the second PM did factor in the Director of Marketing is:
Katina

On July 28 2012 02:12 austinmcc wrote:
Oh. So that was one and then the other one was nothing more than "I'm lonely, figure it out?"

On July 28 2012 03:30 gonzaw wrote:
o_O what the...?


Okay, if I get this correctly, rastaban claims that last day cycle (Day 4), there were 2 messages sent and received by Chezinu, right?
So Chezinu received the 1st message first (from someone), then sent the 2nd one to Katina?
The 2nd message could have been sent by Chezinu, since he has that power.....but the 1st one had to be sent from mafia since there isn't any other similar messaging role out, which can only happen if Chezinu is minion since he received the message...

....wow

The "he figured out Katina was her executive" bit makes sense, although it's possible Chezinu thought Katina was her executive and was wrong. However I agree it's likely Katina is the executive herself, so this makes more sense.



Well shit I don't know :/

I guess it's possible Zealos is town (somehow) and derped that sandro message (somehow).
But if QBertz is scum, then he didn't send or receive any message when rastaban checked him, which he would have if he was scum.
I forgot about BM as well, who claimed Qbertz has no abilities, making him either town or executive. But if QBertz was executive surely he would have sent a message to one of his minions when rastaban checked him.
That Mole thing is incriminating though, but maybe it has something to do with his role (and he knew about the mole somehow?) or it was a coincidence?
Isn't QBertz getting replaced or something? Fuck

On July 28 2012 03:41 gonzaw wrote:


Oh I didn't know that (thought it was a whole ability, not just day ones).

If that's the case, then I guess it's more likely he's scum because he knew of the mole, but I have a hard time thinking Zealos is town.
Meh, we can deal with it later, it's giving me a headache right now.

On July 28 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote:
Rastaban when did chezinu receive/send messages, day 3? Did you get the order of those messages?

On July 28 2012 06:00 austinmcc wrote:
If Chezinu is scum, then responding with PS the order is backwards would be a rather odd response.

On July 28 2012 06:07 austinmcc wrote:
I'm charming rasta.

On July 28 2012 06:47 syllogism wrote:
I don't really want people to believe his PMs were real, which heavily incriminates some of us when it actually doesn' (since he's not the real mole, you should know that by now....or he is and is very stupid and everything here is a giant coincidence, whatever).

On July 28 2012 06:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Gonzaw.

On July 28 2012 06:56 syllogism wrote:

No we don't know that if there is a mafia role that can make it appear someone got a message they actually didn't, which is why I would rather lynch katina/gonzaw first. If katina is a minion as it appears, her role may provide some information.

On July 28 2012 09:18 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
While we wait...

On July 28 2012 12:16 Q-bert-Z wrote:
In before modkill. Who am I voting?

"Fire your nuke! Its time to die. They are on to you! Your gonna die!!!! Its all over! Its all over!!! Whatever you do, do not fire the nuke on rasta!!!"

On July 30 2012 08:33 gonzaw wrote:
^^ I don't get what the "I'm charming" thing has to do with anything