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On July 22 2012 11:54 HiroPro wrote:
BTW guys, notice the awesome role that Zealos claimed (along with the whole nonsense he had with his reads and the sandroba PM that he failed to bring to the thread)? It should be almost certain that he is mafia at this point.
Who was it, VE I think, who even said Vt would be enough. Over compensation.
Lynch Zealos
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On July 23 2012 10:41 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 09:43 Probulous wrote:slOosh doesn't mention Foolishness at all until after the Day 1 lynch and then only comments on him. It's weird because he never discusses other cases or other targets. Anyway, his Night 1 opinion was clear. On July 20 2012 11:46 slOosh wrote:
On Foolishness: many people (including sandroba!) think he is scum and I'm not seeing it. I'd have preferred if focused his energies on someone other than BM (opposed to other vets I would like better reads on such as Palmar, syllogism), but that's alignment null. So I've looked into BM to determine legitimacy of his read, which I find myself agreeing with and I'm surprised that BM has been so easily dismissed because people are hunting execs, because 1) mafia is mafia, so dismissing it purely on "hunt execs" makes no sense, and 2) to think an exec couldn't pretend to own his minion's power is a dangerous oversight. I think BM is trolling mafia as I don't see any town interest in his posts, opposed to Chezinu who is trolling but has a few posts in which he shows critical thought / town insights. So here he has a townish read on Fool who he then follows with his case on BM ( Klicky). So nothing here indicating suspicion of Foolishness at all. Strangely he say Chez is trolling (excuse to ignore) but in a townie way. Ok, maybe that is a throw away line but then On July 21 2012 01:45 slOosh wrote:
Chezinu has been spouting a lot of nonsense, and the fact BM expects me to take such claims as serious and valid makes no sense, nor does it logically follow that my reads are flawed due to this. I merely said that a few posts of his seem insightful, but to take every post of his seriously is nonsense. On July 21 2012 15:36 slOosh wrote:
Does Chezinu actually have confirmed powers or not? I've started off ok ignoring him but he has begun to seriously hamper thread legibility. Which just makes people even less likely to read Chez. If you think Chez is town, why make excuses not to read his filter? Then comes this in his claim On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:
Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? How is this information useful to town? Knowing my entire role is only beneficial to mafia. Even if my role name suggests a mafia role, the fact that I have proven I have a role that has been useful to town should make it clear I am not mafia. Why is outing a role name not in town's benefit? I can tell you that my role name sounds like a mafia role but Chez took the time to examine my filter, to question me and to evaluate whether I am mafia based on my play. The fact that I think he is town because he didn't out me should be enough. Especially for someone who thinks Chez is town. Note slOosh is not calling Chez scum but he is insinuating that I shouldn't trust him. I also find his statement that minions knowing blue roles is not useful for scum completely out of place. Correct me if I am wrong but a CEO who gets a list full of blues is going to be happier than if it was full of greens. Here is some more muck throwing at Chez On July 22 2012 15:04 slOosh wrote:
Couldn't believe I'd pick up such an idea from Chezinu so I did some digging. So slOosh - Why is it that despite never mentioning anything negative about Foolishness AND agreeing with his case on BM you apparently shot him? Your point about VE arguing with Foolishness makes little sense because Bugs argued with Foolishness on night 1 but you completely ignored that.
- Why, despite thinking Chez is townie, do all your mentions of him discredit his posts and provide excuses for not reading his filter?
Note: I have disregarded the claim because well, it is a claim and others are providing insight into that. My point with VE was that he exposed Foolishness' contradiction, which held a lot of weight because my town read on him rested on my agreement with his BM case - that he wasn't wasting his time screwing around. Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 06:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yesterday when we were lynching Kurumi, you took the following actions:
Berate thread for discussing D3 lynch
Build case on BM
In what way do those actions indicate that your intension is, as you claim, to focus the thread on lynching BH D3? Up to that point the majority of what I saw against Foolishness was meta reads from all the vets who knew each other, not something strong enough that I would shoot on - yet the line of questioning showed that he would so easily drop his BM case in a situation where the question where the lynch options were on equal ground, i.e. not an issue of consolidation.
The point I was bringing up with Chezinu was that BM was pushing me on really flimsy grounds. Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 01:45 slOosh wrote:Concerning Bill Murray: On July 20 2012 18:23 Bill Murray wrote:SLOOSH WROTE: On Foolishness: many people (including sandroba!) think he is scum and I'm not seeing it. I'd have preferred if focused his energies on someone other than BM (opposed to other vets I would like better reads on such as Palmar, syllogism), but that's alignment null. So I've looked into BM to determine legitimacy of his read, which I find myself agreeing with and I'm surprised that BM has been so easily dismissed because people are hunting execs, because 1) mafia is mafia, so dismissing it purely on "hunt execs" makes no sense, and 2) to think an exec couldn't pretend to own his minion's power is a dangerous oversight. I think BM is trolling mafia as I don't see any town interest in his posts, opposed to Chezinu who is trolling but has a few posts in which he shows critical thought / town insights. Chezinu is town power role I am also town power role your reads are shit here Chezinu has been spouting a lot of nonsense, and the fact BM expects me to take such claims as serious and valid makes no sense, nor does it logically follow that my reads are flawed due to this. I merely said that a few posts of his seem insightful, but to take every post of his seriously is nonsense. BM has shown that he has power / contact with someone with the power.Yet the logical conclusion isn't that these people are cleared - there are minions who can have powers or execs who can disguise themselves with these said powers. BM is demeaning my reads on nonexistent grounds. He blaming me for not seriously considering all of Chezinu's claims which is ridiculous, and demeans my reads on that alone. I never thought Chezinu was town; when I said a couple of his posts seemed insightful I was drawing a contrast that even he was putting in some effort, whereas Bill Murray had shown no insight and no interest in the game. If I ever threw muck at his name it was unintentional dismissal of an intentionally abstruse person who was making it difficult to read the thread. In light of the recent events however, it has become clear that Chezinu is someone worth focusing on due to his abilities, which is why I said Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote:
Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote:
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. I doubt one person could have multiple abilities like so, which is why I asked for confirmation in case I misunderstood something.
As for the concerns of my role's plausibility: that's what I got. I can't shoot unless mafia haven't died in 1.5 cycles. If it's a really weird / unlikely role, I can't help it. It's what I got.
If he was going to lie why not say 1 cycle till he can fire for more believability? 1.5 cycles sounds more legit to me in this crazy setup. You can wifom it if you want but at best it is a null tell. Anyway we have 2 great targets in Zealos and palmar. Let's make sure one of them gets lynched
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Time to join in now the Walton has ok'd the execution of Palmar
##Unvote
##Vote Palmer
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On July 24 2012 06:30 gonzaw wrote:
Well shit, Palmar's claim doesn't make much sense actually.
If he was Copycat he'd get Rol's role like other people said; if he could choose which role to get it'd be very powerful, and he would have likely chosen Kurumi's role instead (once Kurumi died), since he knew Kurumi had a nuke since D1.
His posting on D2 doesn't see like a scum Palmar to me, would a scum Palmar put effort like that?
Him just giving up right now is not making things any easier.
I'll likely change my vote to him to consolidate, but I won't just sheep a vote on someone I'm not sure is scum so I want some more explanations first.
You better hurry and vote Palmar, I have heard it said only scum wouldn't vote him so it is obvious that we must all lynch him or else be obv. scum!
Chezinu must believe this as he also is voting for Palmar. Silly VE, Chezinu is the truth teller why would we kill the messenger for his message.
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On July 24 2012 08:04 gonzaw wrote:
I expected someone to answer me by now :/
@Prob: Will you answer what I posted before?
*sigh*
You guys better be right, I don't have a good feeling about this
##Unvote: Zealos
##Vote: Palmar
I'm going to the gym now and I think I'll be back right before the deadline.
Last post of the previous page has the answers you seek.
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On July 24 2012 23:59 Mattchew wrote:
Syllo style working backwards time
layabout
sloosh
HiroPro
Bill Murray
Gonzaw
Meapak_Ziphh
austinmcc
Katina
rastaban
marvellosity
risk.nuke
Q-bert-Z
Zealos
I took out all dead people, and anyone I consider strongest town reads (syllo super prob VE chez)
Next lets take off the list people I dont think are possible lynches for today (this will be biased)
Bill Murray
austinmcc
risk.nuke
marvellosity
Gonzaw
This leaves us with
layabout
sloosh
hiropro
Meapak_Ziphh
Katina
Rastaban
Q-bert-Z
Zealos
With me believing Sloosh's claim and Q-bert-Z's excuse
This leaves our remaining scum team
probable Execs - MZ and Foolishness's Girlfriend
probable minions - layabout, hiropro, Rastaban, Zealos
I don't like that post all, I was trying to figure out what it was and then I realized. No, not just that it is a giant list like mafia love to do, it was more than that. Then it hit me.
His mafia list is based on people he thinks can be lynched today. This post doesn't seem town aligned at all. He basically says he is willing to lynch anyone. It bothers me that there are 6 candidates with only 6 scum remaining. Maybe you don't think someone will be lynched today but why would that mean they aren't candidates for scum?
This post reeks of vote justification. I decided to look into some of his previous posts. While he supported the Palmar lynch, it was only when it no longer mattered as he admits himself:
On July 24 2012 05:03 Mattchew wrote:
I am voting Palmar.
I unintentionally saved BH from a day 1 lynch.
Sandroba saying Palmar was the best reason I could find, and I trust that sandroba is smarter than I.
My vote is late and meaningless, but it does help ensure a lynch.
##vote: Palmar
But look at his posts before that:
On July 24 2012 09:07 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 09:02 Probulous wrote:On July 24 2012 09:01 Mattchew wrote:
I hope you guys are right Well no one told me why I am wrong (if I am). Why is this? Cause honestly I have had a null tell on Palmar and agreed with him throughout this entire game... Also, I was wondering if scum would weed out their high level members for us (killing the town vets first thus if Palmar or syllo or MZ were alive like day 5 or 6, they'd be very very very likely scum... but idk these aren't exactly arguments that counter the case you made and sandroba and syllos reads on palmar
On July 24 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote:
Prob I find/found it weird that you were unwilling to discuss Katina with me. Usually you and Gonzaw are both extremely longwinded and willing to type out your thoughts on literally anything at anytime. With so many votes on Palmar he was/is set to be lynched and you STILL refused to answer questions about her. There is something different about you this game
On July 24 2012 09:18 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 09:14 Probulous wrote:On July 24 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote:
Prob I find/found it weird that you were unwilling to discuss Katina with me. Usually you and Gonzaw are both extremely longwinded and willing to type out your thoughts on literally anything at anytime. With so many votes on Palmar he was/is set to be lynched and you STILL refused to answer questions about her. There is something different about you this game See Day 1. I worked like an all mighty bitch to get a lynch of either Gonzaw (my preferred) or BH (backup). By my reads that would be a choice between two scum which explains why it was so hard. My point though is that the no lynch was facilitated because people were allowed to bring in other targets. I was one of them. Take it as lesson learnt. Palmar is my strongest read and so I have pushed him. If you want to lynch someone else, then explain why my case is wrong and I will consider yours. Until you do that I am not risking a no lynch simply because someone else might be scum. You forget we have less voting power than usual. Lol you forget that other cases may be as good if not stronger than yours. Didn't you chastise (or atleast allow people to chastise) me for doing the exact same thing to my strongest read Katina? I don't see you revoking my claims in order to push my vote onto Palmar. Why should I do something that you are not willing to do yourself?
He wanted to save Palmar, but when the pressure was to late he gave in, but only after his vote no longer mattered....
He has pushed Katina this entire game, to nearly the exclusion of all else. while he posts one liners atempting discredit players he never goes after anyone besides Katina
Lastly I would like to ask you to go through his filter and look at how many lists he posts juxtapose his arguments for lynching,
On July 19 2012 00:01 Mattchew wrote:
If I could have one wish, it would be to see these people dead in the upcoming daypost
Kurumi - sandroba out'd scum
Katina - read my filter
Meapak_Ziphh - Prob pointed out how timid and passive he was posting
Rastaban - Literally just looking out for himself
Foolishness - this is not the play of someone that has been voted the best scum hunter on TL
Bill Murray
Chezinu
Posts like this are all too common but other than Katina you will never see him actually try and get anyone on his lists lynched, preferring to stir the pot and wish "scum" away with his lists.
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On July 25 2012 00:19 Mattchew wrote:
That was a combination post of who to lynch, that turned into a reads post lol
lol, it took 20 minutes to realize you slipped up with that post?
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On July 25 2012 00:53 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 00:50 rastaban wrote:On July 25 2012 00:19 Mattchew wrote:
That was a combination post of who to lynch, that turned into a reads post lol
lol, it took 20 minutes to realize you slipped up with that post? matt's not the only one who has listed like that on more than one occasion. Why pick on him and not the others? (e.g. supersoft, katina)
My primary argument isn't the list, but the fact that the list drove his scum reads not the other way around. That is a scum mindset. He says these are a list of people not likely to be lynched today, and then he doesn't consider them as possible scum from that point on. Sure they might not be lynched but their is probably at least one scum in that list. His reason for removing them wasn't because they seem not scummy, but because they couldn't be lynched today.
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On July 25 2012 01:00 Mattchew wrote:
Lol at rasta not knowing how to look at times of posts
Bah, Your filter is too big I get lost 
I still think the point stands. While you were eventually able to vote for him you didn't want to. I don't think that makes you scum alone, but it is definitely not a point in your favor. My problem is that you are willing to post and argue points to defend people but other than Katina we don't see you arguing for a lynch of someone.
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On July 25 2012 01:13 Mattchew wrote:
My reads + others reads
Your list just said you thought they couldn't be lynched today. By reads, do you mean people who were viewed as town, or do you mean people who were viewed as lower priority?
Edit - Never mind clicked through to view it and saw that one of the questions is what grade level you are at. Good luck 
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On July 25 2012 03:05 syllogism wrote:
Really katina, I'm a null read? That's amazing
well maybe if you would stop lurking and actually help out the town for once she could get a read on you...
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On July 25 2012 03:13 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 03:10 rastaban wrote:On July 25 2012 03:05 syllogism wrote:
Really katina, I'm a null read? That's amazing well maybe if you would stop lurking and actually help out the town for once she could get a read on you... you realize, that syllo and i (and VE to some extend, he however killed bh) were the driving force behind foolishness and palmars deaths? lurking? do you even read the thread?
I knew I should have appended a 
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On July 25 2012 03:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
Guys there's something strange going on with Chez.
He's promising to "shape up" now? Really?
We just killed 3 scum in one cycle. THREE SCUM IN ONE CYCLE.
Whatever the piss we're doing, we're doing it right. Now isn't the time to change things up, if you're a townie.
Conversely if you're scum, something is going horribly horribly wrong.
Between the two, who do you think is more likely to change it up and "shape up" now?
But what if his promise to change things up is actually him being the same and continue to troll.
I have a really big town read on chez this game, unless he starts stearing people wrong I don't see any reason to change that. Probulous has already pointed out some efforts chez has made on our behalf and his meta this game fits with his town power role meta from previous games.
If this change ends up town then yeah, maybe we do re-examine it, but we haven't seen this change yet so lets see what becomes of it.
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EBWOP: If this change ends up hurting town then yeah
Also Mattchew, maybe you are right on Katina, that last post by her was... surprising.
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On July 25 2012 03:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Scum don't know other scum. Lest we forget. Scumhunting doesn't clear you syllo.
I'm a little salty about no one listening to me but meh...maybe you will listen to a dead guy.
Are you referring to chez, or something else?
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On July 25 2012 09:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh and rastaban. I don't like him either. GRRRZZZZZZZ
I felt so unloved and forgotten until I read this. Thanks VE, maybe I am just a footnote but I view it as getting my own post!
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I wonder if the leader was afk and didn't send in a choice...
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Makes me wonder if layabout is the scum. Maybe he is scum and also really doesn't have time so he felt his aoe wasn't a low blow?
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On July 25 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote:
I think that's particularly pointless speculation rastaban.
I don't think it is, the biggest reason people said my case against him was flawed was because he appealed to emotion and they thought he wouldn't stoop to that. If he is scum it would explain some things and this fits into my argument that scum could appeal to emotion as well. Maybe he wouldn't stoop to using it to justify lurking but what if he was scum and wasn't into it either. It is certainly worth speculating on.
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EPT
