EPTSSB-64 Mafia
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talismania
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talismania
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hey toad was alignment generated randomly or not? I got my first pick. | ||
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I volunteer to sit out trying to get an item today - I will not be sending in an item drop placement. | ||
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On July 02 2012 17:53 kingdedede wrote: Hi fellow Nintendo-citizens! We are Yoshi! We talked it over and it seemed best to just come straight out and roleclaim, because bus drivers can be pretty damned destructive and chaotic if used badly. However, they can also be awesome. We will use it as an interesting twisted medic, meaning we will drive from someone we read as town to someone we read as scum! This obviously works better when scum doesn't know beforehand who is being protected and targeted, so we won't announce our actions beforehand, but after the night is over we will say exactly what we did, and why. We feel a mass claim would be a pretty good idea now in any case. That way scum roleblockers can't hide (or can be caught if scum lies about their role/target) and everybody can be held accountable for their actions. More advantages of mass claim: it makes it so that if there's a Mario we can have them be randomized separately, then randomize everybody else: sucks if you get stuck with a Mario, but at least you don't take damage AND lose the item as you would using Hiro's completely random generation (which I think is a good idea). Ensures optimal item distribution and minimizes random damage! /Artanis and Acro Just to be clear - yoshi was your first choice? ___________ Also I will plug my idea one more time since it got smushed between two mod-posts: two people sit out until six people are left (w/ regard to the item thing). We rotate who sits out. I'm sitting out today, still need one more. Then everyone else can have their own area. | ||
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talismania
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I don't particularly understand this pick for other people thing... I think I'm just going to stand in the middle if that's cool with everyone. | ||
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____________ random hypothesis: toad picked alignments after character select so that he could guarantee a balanced game (aka he did not do it randomly). otherwise I don't see why we picked characters first and couldn't talk and all that which was half the fun (and half the information) in pick your power. Therefore I hypothesize that cephiro and mister saturn are not both mafia, because that sounds kind of broken. The other possible configurations sound reasonable though. | ||
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talismania
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On July 03 2012 04:26 iGrok wrote: I can confirm that your hypothesis is correct because thats how you run SSB64 So what would you do as host in this situation - give both samus to town or split them? I can't figure out if toad thought about the likelihood that grush would claim not getting his first pick and therefore outing both of them (which complicates the analysis). | ||
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Beyond that point I think Saturn/hiropro is acting the scummiest. To reiterate/expand: 1) Read how he participated in the Risen v iGrok debate. He was there but he wasn't in-your-face there (as cephiro was). He pushed Risen a bit but also threw in heaps of questions all over the place. 2) Pointing out every little thing that could be scummy. He did this with grush just recently and I think once before that I can't remember. Bit of a weak scumtell. 3) Being a bit of an opportunistic voter. Weakest evidence for sure but he hopped on iGrok, then hopped off rather quickly. 4) Even weaker but he has made a few points that hint at thinking from a scum POV, where he talks about the optimal play for scum etc in the beginning. My only big problem with saturn being scum is that I can't figure out who his partner would be. I thought it was iGrok until the post-derp spat and it became clear iGrok picked him up and whatnot (which makes no sense from a scum point of view). In any event ##vote: Mister Saturn ________________ @acro I'm pretty sure iGrok wants to lynch me just to figure out what my role is (same as he would for grush - dunno why he doesn't want to lynch risen for that reason though. or homerunbat). He said not to vote for him today presumably because then we would also be doing 1.5kp to saturn (so he said to wait for tomorrow so he could pick someone else up). Don't know why he wouldn't want the extra damage on saturn though. | ||
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talismania
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On July 04 2012 00:56 HiroPro wrote: Yo, dedede, I'll sheep you to victory, but I'll still shoot iGrok. I'm too mad at to think properly at this point. It's better that we both die, cause at this point's it's screwing all my reads. talismania, your case is bad. You first point is not even true lol; I wasn't pushing Risen at all. I was trying to figure out Risen's twisted logic. Asking questions has nothing to do with alignment. Your other points are all weak, weak, weak. Incidentally, you guys really shouldn't try to use the game mechanics to scumhunt. You probably won't believe me until I die. But w/e, you should listen to me then. For one thing, you have no idea how Toad thinks or has planned, second Toad already screwed up badly in the setup phase (I can't really talk about it any further than that). The role-alignment stuff is fairly worthless. Also, dedede, HomerunBat's recent posts really were not good lol. s0lstice's giant post has 2 town reads (meaningless), a lurker lynch, useless stuff about bus drivers, and then he calls me scum based on the fact that I want to kill iGrok (even though he later admits that iGrok's behavior "doesn't look good"). ShiaoPi's last post is even more hilarious lol. Not only is it just a rephrasing of what dedede said in his post (look at page 16, it's hilarious), but it also ignores the reason that I voted for him (hint: it wasn't because he defended iGrok). - Hiro Oh you can't tease me with the "toad screwed up in the setup phase already" thing like that! What did he do? Gives us a hint - did he get your pick wrong? Did he get your numbers wrong? Can't see what else it would be unless you're just mad about when iGrok was allowed to pick you up but that doesn't seem setup-related. Btw I'm not saying I can read toad's mind. I've played scum with him, town with him, and scum against town with him and I have some flavor for how he thinks but not enough to predict what he'd do as a host of course. I'm more saying that if you feel that this game was done nonrandomly, which I do, and you knew my role, which I do, and the fact that I'm town it makes it really strange to put both Samuses on the town team as well. It's also unlikely that they are both scum. No matter who the host is, if the host is picking alignments nonrandomly that would be true. I dunno. I still think Hiro's behavior is actually more indicative of his alignment than this stuff. | ||
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Is Mister Saturn allowed to tell us what the wrong character was? Theoretically, he could assume that it was another character belonging to someone else in the game, and thus could have an information advantage no one else had | ||
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On July 02 2012 10:56 grush57 wrote: My first pick was Samus, didn't get him. On July 02 2012 11:09 iGrok wrote: Interesting, thanks What he means is "Ah, Mister Saturn and Cephiro are both Samus." On July 03 2012 07:44 iGrok wrote: I can't tell my reasoning on saturn until tomorrow. Top picks for lynch are ##Vote: Talisman "I wonder what talismania's role is." On July 03 2012 08:01 iGrok wrote: The same reasoning the I do everything for. 2nd choice is grush, but we'll see what happens there. "I'm also curious about what grush's role is, and he's being a lurker." On July 04 2012 00:00 iGrok wrote: Thanks for posting Tali. I don't want to lynch Saturn because I'm waiting for something. ##Vote grush7 or whatever "Thanks for letting me know that your role is one of two possibilities, tali. I don't want to lynch saturn because I want to see who takes kp at night from scum, and if we lynch him and I'm wrong about him being scum, scum can just kill him and we don't learn anything. Voting grush because he's worthless and I want to see his role." | ||
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Can people help me fill this out? I've discovered my problem is that I think everyone but mister saturn is town =/ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgoLbFr8c0_7dERRMUVqYjQtb200SVVVd0lsaEpYV0E | ||
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On July 04 2012 05:06 Mister Saturn wrote: It's not that I don't want to think for myself. It's that I don't trust myself right now. But I actually do agree with you on talismania. Maybe it's just me but the fact that he ignores the actually scummy parts of my play (like the fact that I've basically announced I'm sheeping or my uncertainty about HomerunBat) and focuses on pointless stuff makes me think he's scum. And to be honest he's been pretty unhelpful other than the bad case he made on me. I'm voting for talismania. I'll be back in half an hour. ##Unvote ##Vote talismania - Hiro Where's strongandbig been at? I dunno I still think you're scum, got pissed about going down to 2 kp so soon, and kinda panicked and pushed igrok and since then you've been willing to push anyone and everyone. You fished the vote from acro out on me so that you could hop on. I think that had everything gone to plan with the item you would be on Risen right now. | ||
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On July 04 2012 05:23 talismania wrote: TT my first mislynch as town. At least I don't die right away. Can people help me fill this out? I've discovered my problem is that I think everyone but mister saturn is town =/ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgoLbFr8c0_7dERRMUVqYjQtb200SVVVd0lsaEpYV0E ps people post all your impressions on everyone else so that this matrix can be completed. Should be useful later. | ||
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On July 04 2012 05:47 Risen wrote: EBWOP: What am I thinking? I'll lynch tali. Just realized he has me down as being slightly scummy for no reason. ##unvote ##vote: talismania OMGUS of the best kind. since it got buried, you have read the spreadsheet wrong. I have you down as town. | ||
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##unvote ##vote grush57 Since I don't think mister saturn is going to happen. | ||
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btw what does a bus driver actually do? I've never seen the role before. | ||
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On July 04 2012 07:01 Risen wrote: -1 grush +1 tali = 5 tali 4 grush I thought you were a pikachu after seeing toad put you in a separate category briefly and your math here seems to confirm it. | ||
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On July 04 2012 07:03 HomerunBat wrote: well my math says we are at 4 to 4 Mine too, but risen just put it at 5 to 4 which is impossible unless he's a pikachu or knows someone who is. | ||
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On July 04 2012 07:29 Risen wrote: I think it's safe to assume that scum was on both sides. Tali/grush scum team imo Haha that doesn't even begin to make sense. At least the people putting me with igrok can make up a coherent story. | ||
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On July 04 2012 07:34 Cephiro wrote: It does seem extremely unlikely, but on the other hand town possibly mis-shooting has to be taken into account also. Not to mention busdrivers / roleblockers / medics / hiding foxes. I'm still going to try and concentrate on playing based on the filters, and so far I don't mind grush losing 1.5 stock at all. I hope you're kidding. Only scum up for lynch on D1? That's not even realistic in fairyland. Well there's no that much room left for all those roles. You also have to ask yourself: what roles would people want to play? I doubt anyone actually would ever pick roleblocker, just because of the good odds that they would roll town and have no idea what to do with it. I know I didn't even consider making that choice for that reason. Btw I'm still wondering if someone can explain to me how this bus driver thing works. | ||
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgoLbFr8c0_7dERRMUVqYjQtb200SVVVd0lsaEpYV0E | ||
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@homerunbat I had the benefit of being bold and fearless in bastard 2 because I was a dayvig and had a clear plan of action with that ability. I executed the plan well and shot scum day one. Not only that but there was a lie detector check (of sorts) on me. So I played really freely the rest of that game. I'm kind of liking being the center of attention in this game though. At the moment I consider acrofales/kingdedede almost certainly town. If he were scum he wouldn't have publicly changed his mind about me. Shouldn't have anyway - I would be a great candidate for one of the lynches tomorrow given that I was second in votes today. And I think acrofales would have especially wanted me gone if he were scum given that I just finished playing a long game with him. The same sort of goes for Cephiro although it's a bit weaker. He publicly stated he did NOT want me lynched yesterday. That's strange behavior if he were scum. Like, say grush and I are both town (and I think there's a decent chance he is). Grush is always going to be there as an easy-ish vote to push for scum. But getting damage on me day 1? That's a great opportunity because I'm an active and thorough player and most people here know that. It could be that cephiro made his ranking thing and wanted to stick with it though, in which case there's still the chance he was scum so I'm not ruling him out entirely. This certainly does not apply to Mister Saturn / HiroPro. Both Hiro and S&B know I play actively and that I don't miss much of anything that happens in the thread. After Hiro flailed around a bit trying to latch onto a target I think he was glad to find me. And his certainty in pushing me is consistent with scum behavior. Still can't figure out who the partner is which admittedly is rather troubling. I was tempted to say Homerunbat because of his recent post about me but that doesn't really make sense given that hiro at one point was voting for him without resistance. Also, the fact that ShiaoPi switched the vote from me to grush isn't consistent with that either. I can't think of a really solid reason in general that scum would want grush dead over me. Maybe if scum were afraid that grush might have falcon, knowing that he went for samus first? I guess that's a possibility, but doesn't really make too much sense given that lynches don't kill outright. _______________ Call to action: this is an 8-person game. To expand on what acro is asking for, everyone should be posting their reads of everyone else, at least once a cycle. In a thirty person game this sort of thing is cumbersome, but in a game this small it is essential. It forces scum to talk about themselves and everyone else, the more we make scum lie the better, yadda yadda. I'll keep compiling people's reads and such in the spreadsheet/document as they happen. | ||
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talismania
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Also I have been proposing this since space station. Also also don't think that every little thing that happens has to necessarily lead to scum directly. But the more reads people post the better. Also also also "lets scum blend in" is a stupid response to it. Scum are going to try to blend in no matter what lol. There's no town atmosphere in which scum are trying to stick out. And in general it's easiest to blend in in a lurky thread, then a spammy thread, then an active thread. So that argument holds no water. | ||
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grush why did you shoot risen? | ||
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On July 05 2012 07:18 Mister Saturn wrote: You're a captain falcon, aren't you talismania? I'm not going to outright claim anything right now but I think if anyone goes through my filter and thinks about what has transpired in the game they should be able to figure it out regardless. And, uh ##vote: grush57 until he talks anyway. I think scum was making the simplest move possible: shooting the guy with a 1.5kp gun with both the bullets that they have. Hiro and s&b, I think I might have just been completely wrong about you if this is indeed the case. Confusing though but if grush is actually scum then a samus + falcon scum team seems kind of imba. What do people think about the possibility of risen + grush? | ||
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talismania
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Yo chill an entire page happened while I was thinking and wrote that. | ||
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I say we lynch grush, push risen and possible even win the game. | ||
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why did you switch your vote at the last second from grush to me anyway? | ||
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On July 05 2012 08:35 grush57 wrote: DECIDE FOR YOURSELF HE IS MAFIA AHHHHHHHHHHHH grush you still need to explain why the hell you decided to shoot him. Right now I can't figure out why you did it from a town point of view, or why you would be dumb enough to admit to it from a scum point of view. | ||
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talismania
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I think he's done ok scrambling but I can't shake the fact that he tried to save grush at the last second. grush is clearly scum and he has simply played poorly. He shouldn't have shot the same person they were putting the night kill on to begin with, and he shouldn't have claimed the shot afterwards. Assuming there's at least some modicum of communication between the two scumbuddies, I can't imagine hiropro or strongandbig letting someone do that. I'll go ahead and roleclaim since I don't see why not at this point. I'm kirby, and I ate risen last night. He is indeed a donkey kong (kirby's eating is unaffected by the bus according to toad after I asked). I think this leaves only homerunbat as an unknown role not that it really matters at this point anyway. | ||
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On July 06 2012 02:25 grush57 wrote: My reason was that I thought he was scum, talismania. A TOWN reason  Not really, you didn't say peep about him day one. You should have shot iGrok whom you called scum, or me, whom you called scum. | ||
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On July 06 2012 07:22 Mister Saturn wrote: grush must have forgot to send a PM. And I really don't think he's scum. Is the fact that he hit the same person that scum did, weird? Yes. But I don't see why as scum, he would either reveal the fact that both Cephiro and I were Samus (town has no way of knowing that kind of info without grush saying it and scum would want to keep that kind of information private so they can plan their night hits) and the fact that he would actually claim his hit as scum just seems ridiculous to me. S&B, you have talismania as your strongest scum read also, right? I think we should lynch him today and shoot him at night. HomerunBat is probably the other scum. If we're wrong, we can always lynch grush. What do people actually think of this plan? my vote isn't leaving grush and I don't think anyone else's should either but I'm very curious about reactions to this idea. | ||
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My guess is it's just grush + mister saturn and homerunbat has given them the opening they needed to either force a no-lynch or get me lynched. Either way it's great for them because they get to keep grush's KP. By the way - look at the timing of MisterSaturn and Grush's votes LOL 2:16 2:17 That shit is classic if they are scum. (Grush being scum with saturn could also explain some of hiropro's frustration as well. He was down 1 kp with a useless partner who voluntarily revealed saturn's role. He was even more depressed after the night actions after grush was stupid and shot the same guy they were using the night kp on.) So what happens during the night if it's saturn/grush? 1) I'm lynched. Then they have the option of using saturn's gun on me. But I don't think they would because they have to respect the fact that I claimed I ate Risen and they don't know who I'm carrying. That gives them 3.5 kp to work with elsewhere. Obviously they'd be looking at acrofales/artanis + cephiro to kill with it but would have to contend with the bus. Not game over in this situation but not exactly a smart way to play either. Actually no now that homerunbat has swung back towards me being scum they should have no problem wanting to get rid of him since they don't have to keep up the fraud that it might be me + homerunbat which they've hinted at before. 2) No lynch. Pretty much as above, but they would be even more tempted to shoot at me to get my kp down to a manageable level. But am I carrying saturn? Or grush? Tough for them to make that call if it would be a one for one trade that shoots them in the foot. No, they're better off leaving me alive and pushing for my lynch. 3) Grush lynched. Then saturn resigns because his ass is getting shot by cephiro and he has little chance to make it. _____________________ Other scenarios: What if Risen was right all along - it's cephiro + acro/artanis? Well, this makes little sense for a couple big reasons that should be stated: Acrofales backed off his scum read on me to a town read. Why on earth do you do that as scum? Far easier to piggyback hiropro's tunnel and get me lynched, with little skin of your back. Same goes for cephiro. Of course, it could just be really cunning play but let's assume simpler explanations prevail. But if this is the case, the game is almost lost. One of them will reluctantly agree to vote for me near the end of the voting period today, getting me lynched and putting me at 1.5 kp. Then hiro shoots me tonight, getting rid of a townie for them. Then they use their night kill to get rid of grush and can use their other 1.5 kp wherever they want. Either way they will be at 2 - 2 and have won the game after tonight. I'm most scared of this scenario but I also don't think it's that likely. By the way, What is the lylo in this game? Is it equal numbers? Or is it when town can't win based on kp and abilities and items? I would argue that making it at equal numbers is kind of silly because then two townies with 3 kp could lose to two scum at 0.5 kp that might be about to die to a tornado or something ___________________ Other combos: Mister Saturn + Homerunbat - eh I don't think so. Saturn quickly voted for him, homerunbat has "trapped" him before just doesn't seem like they are connected. Maybe but I don't think so. Cephiro + Mister Saturn - imba as fuck and we're all screwed lol. Homerunbat + grush - nope they don't switch from voting me to voting him in that case unless they're just playing random in which case I just shrug if they win. grush + acro/artanis - eh? no clue. grush + cephiro - nope grush doesn't shoot him in that case after they've already put their kp on cephiro. ______________________ Why I'm not scum: Why do I eat risen at night if I'm scum? I'd have eaten grush in that case for sure. I almost did that anyway as town. Instead I wanted to rolecop risen. Why do I even claim in the first place? Who the hell am I scum with? not anyone who voted for me day one because that would just be silly. Homerunbat? Nope he's voting for me now for no reason if we were scum together. I guess you have to assume that it's me + cephiro in that case like hrb said but I know if I were scum I would not attack my scumbuddy N1 even for towncred. Dunno who I would kill - HrB probably, maybe saturn for wifom or risen for wifom. So Cephiro at least knows that I'm not scum with him. Which means it comes down to acro to make sure that I don't get lynched and homerunbat to change their minds and avoid the no-lynch. | ||
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On July 07 2012 05:22 HiroPro wrote: I think he's scum. He talks about me being scum but then all he can support with is hypothetical statements about me being frustrated and partners with grush. And then he spends the rest of his post talking about possible scum team partnerships and why they may/may not work. Artanis, he's flat-out ignoring scumhunting. He made absolutely no attempt to logically refute the things that HomerunBat and I have brought up. He talks about how he couldn't possibly be scum because he ate Risen (we have absolutely no way of knowing if this is true - talismania only brought up the fact that he ate Risen after Risen already roleclaimed) and that doesn't even have anything to do with whether or not he is scum - scum want to find out what roles people have also. And then he talks about how scum team combinations don't work with him... - Hiro No scum want kp. I would have eaten grush 100% if I were scum I guarantee you. I don't understand this accusation of lack of scumhunting when I've been sure you're scum since near the beginning, with the exception of that time period where I thought it was Risen. I still don't like a Samus + Falcon team though for balance reasons. | ||
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On July 07 2012 05:21 HomerunBat wrote: Artanis, if you want town to win, you need to vote Talis. Look at his defense, he still, STILL cannot name a single person and build a case on them. It's all association play, without a scum flip. Look at his 'why I'm town section.' Are any of those strong points? You really want a point by point analysis with quotes and shit? I think I've made myself pretty clear on who I think is scum and why throughout this game. And wtf association play is amazing it's a damn 8 player game with 2 scum in it! This isn't some 30-player shitfest. | ||
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That's the game from my perspective. HiroPro and strongandbig do not seem to change their minds at all. Everyone else has. HRB has, acrofales has, cephiro well I guess I don't know if cephiro has to be honest. ______________ And about me not following through on my call to action - 1) that's bullshit. I've been in this thread saying what I think about everyone quite a bit. 2) fuck the spreadsheet. I do shit like that all the time and don't update it. Bangbangmafia2 I was scum, I made a call to action and never even bothered to follow it. Bastard 2 I was town, made a call to action and never even bothered to follow it. Space station I made a call to action and followed it for like one day and then gave up. Don't think I did any calls to action in the PYPs. In any even the spreadsheet is unimportant right now with 6 people left and so few possible scum pairings. I don't see how it's necessary. | ||
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On July 07 2012 06:03 kingdedede wrote: Tali, do you have any meta games for me where you were town and where you were scum? It'd help. Town space station, pick your power redux, bastard 2 scum pick your poison, bangbang2 | ||
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On July 07 2012 05:55 Mister Saturn wrote: You've done absolutely no scumhunting except for your initial post on me (in which you admitted that almost everything was weak). Everything you've posted has been connections, mechanics talk, and talking about how certain people are town because they don't go after you. By those standards you've no absolutely no scumhunting either haha. "Talking about how certain people are town because they don't go after me" misconstrues what I'm saying. I'm saying people that have been on me, like acrofales, that then changed their minds makes no sense from a scum point of view. It really doesn't. I know I'm town. I know acrofales, if he were scum, would not want to just back off me publicly like that. That shit is completely legit to point out. Same goes for cephiro, although less so because he might have felt constrained by the list he made, same goes for homerunbat as well but maybe to a lesser extent if grush is also town. | ||
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talismania
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On July 04 2012 05:06 Mister Saturn wrote: It's not that I don't want to think for myself. It's that I don't trust myself right now. But I actually do agree with you on talismania. Maybe it's just me but the fact that he ignores the actually scummy parts of my play (like the fact that I've basically announced I'm sheeping or my uncertainty about HomerunBat) and focuses on pointless stuff makes me think he's scum. And to be honest he's been pretty unhelpful other than the bad case he made on me. I'm voting for talismania. I'll be back in half an hour. ##Unvote ##Vote talismania - Hiro What the fuck is that statement? Maybe I'm just weird but when I'm town I don't really think about the parts of my play that seem scummy haha. I guess some townies have guilty consciences but still this is an odd remark to make. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 05 2012 15:07 Mister Saturn wrote: Sigh, whatever, I'll worry about this if grush isn't scum. I have a strong town read on dedede, so that makes Cephiro strong town too. On July 06 2012 02:17 Mister Saturn wrote: I don't think it's a ceph/dedede scum team, Risen. I'm fairly certain dedede is town and so Cephiro pretty much has to be too. I think grush just happened to shoot the same person as scum. I just don't see why scum grush would claim. So who's my partner then? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 06:37 Mister Saturn wrote: It's always important to look at the motivations and methods of people who attack you. It's the reason I realized Toad was scum when Radfield made his case in Pick Your Poison. - Hiro So you saw that I was calling you scummy and went through and re-read your own filter looking for actually scummy things? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 06:38 talismania wrote: So who's my partner then? On another note - how do you get from having a strong town read on dedede = cephiro is town? I mean I agree both are town, but I don't see how you get there from that line of reasoning. | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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On July 06 2012 02:27 Mister Saturn wrote: Yea, I think it's iGrok and talis. If somehow it's not iGrok, it's HomerunBat. Really? On July 06 2012 07:11 Mister Saturn wrote: lol did grush forget to send in his action? anyway talismania is still scum. i guess grush is the other one? but if he's not then its probably homerunbat. -strongandbig Really??? On July 06 2012 23:21 Mister Saturn wrote: Hm, on a second read-through, the grush-talismania team isn't actually that implausible, considering the amount of thread influence those two had. I should still talk with s&b, though. Really????????? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 06:44 kingdedede wrote: I'm going with the fact that he said you always look super townie when you are townie, and that in this game you haven't been. The one thing I know is that he isn't trying to mislead me, which I don't know about anyone else in the game. That's ridiculous to vote on meta at this point in the game haha. Please at least read through people's filters assuming I'm town and see if it makes sense to you. I am town. | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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On July 07 2012 06:47 Mister Saturn wrote: Because I didn't consider the possibility that Cephiro might shoot himself if he was scum on a different team. I thought the only way he would do that was if dedede was his partner. And I didn't consider that likely at all. But this is a game with three stock and it's entirely possible that scum can do this. - Hiro dude what if you really are town haha. homerunbat just played us against each other. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 06:51 kingdedede wrote: How is voting based on meta bad? People make cases based on meta all the time and it's one of the strongest indicators in the game. Your filter doesn't scream town. There's a lot of fluff about connections and setup speculation. Some scumhunting which you didn't do in Bang Bang, but you mentioned that was an off game for you. You did do some scumhunting in Pick Your Poison as well so that fits your meta there as well. it's fine day one is all I'm saying. day two with as much info as we have isn't the best time. please please please re-read saturn's/grush's filter with the assumption that I am town. Give it a chance. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 06:53 kingdedede wrote: If I end up being wrong on this I'm gonna send an anthrax letter to Acro. Again, he changed his mind on me this game - he wanted to stay on grush. He'll be sending you the letter. As will igrok | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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On July 07 2012 06:59 kingdedede wrote: With 6 minutes time from when you posted you can't expect me to reread it that quick. I can expect you to try. Come on, at least make it a no-lynch. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
Now why would I have voluntarily just claimed my role when I did if I were scum? Think about that for once - please don't ignore all the possible evidence. The game isn't over but it is tilting fast. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 07:05 Mister Saturn wrote: I'm shooting talismania tonight. - Hiro You're going to be fucked when I flip then, sorry dude if you're town. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 07:10 Cephiro wrote: Fucking derptown. Let grush run free and lynch the townies. Can't believe this shit. If it's Saturn+HRB somehow, then gg, it's all up to dedede bus wifom. Saturn shot on talis and KP on grush would make it 2v2 unless dedede does a gosu bus again. Yeah but I doubt it's actually that pair. I think we have to hope that it's the simplest explanation: saturn + grush. I feel ok losing to the other combos because at least they would have played really really well in that event. Losing to grush like this? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 03:18 strongandbig wrote: i agree with hiro. sorry i havent been able to post in the qt my advisor is here so it was impossible to get time at lunch Post the QT, buddy. Post it. If you're a town hydra, you should have no reason not to share the QT you've been using to communicate with. You can always switch to a new one if you don't want people reading what you're thinking about using your actions on. Same goes for the other hydras, although I can understand HRB not wanting to since they haven't claimed yet and I don't want to see acro-artanis if they've already been discussing who they're busing. But Hiro and Strongandbig, you've admitted you have a QT, so post it. | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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Are you saying that you haven't talked to him outside the thread at all? | ||
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talismania
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Strongandbig, have you opened the QT hiropro made for you since the game started? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 07:32 Mister Saturn wrote: I've literally had two PMs with him and they were practically what he's posted in the thread (except for our pregame character picking discussion). - Hiro Well can you post those anyways? I don't see how it could hurt if it does just replicate what's in the thread. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 07:35 strongandbig wrote: no sorry i didnt think this would be so hard ok cool that confirms the fact that I was apparently the second viewer according to the viewcounter on the QT | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
Other hydras, I'd like to see all your private communications that you feel are safe to share as well. We should really rule artanis+acro out this way. Can you guys copy+paste the text of all your communications up until any point where you talk about who you're busing tonight? Thanks! | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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Artanis and acro we definitely need yours now. Need need need. Post your communiques, my friends. | ||
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talismania
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talismania
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On July 07 2012 08:00 kingdedede wrote: Can't do that, my talks with Acro include a lot of talk about my current MTG game I'm hosting which includes sensitive information that could dramatically alter that game. I don't feel like editing out half the conversation either since it'd prove nothing as I could be editing it as scum. well that sucks. Can we get a few little teasers here and there? Surely there are some exchanges that don't include talk about that game. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 08:04 talismania wrote: well that sucks. Can we get a few little teasers here and there? Surely there are some exchanges that don't include talk about that game. Yeah I'm serious about this. you need to give us something. I highly doubt every single post has stuff on the MTG game. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 08:05 Mister Saturn wrote: Nope, I don't give hugs to scum And if you're actually town, I'll be too sad  You and me both I think are getting toasted in the scum QT unless you and strongandbig had the foresight to fake those convos like that. Right now we need to keep pressuring artanis to post as much of his convo with acrofales as possible. I think what HRB posted almost absolutely rules them out as scum. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 08:17 kingdedede wrote: Everything interesting we've already shared in thread. It was mostly Acro playing as I focussed on my MTG game. That's why most of the talk was about MTG, where Acro just checked things that he wanted to post with me in skype. Our exchanges went something like: [5-7-2012 00:40:38] Acro: how about: [5-7-2012 00:40:40] Acro: <quote of anagram> This is an anagram for bus cephiro risen. That's exactly what we did. I guess we got lucky with our guess. The idea behind it was that scum would want to get rid of any extra town KP as fast as possible and my strongest town read on a (semi-)confirmed KP player was Cephiro. We thought of driving ourselves (we were also afraid of iGrok picking us up), but figured the risk to Cephiro was probably bigger. At least for the hit we were right... The earlier thought was to move any damage on a town player to a scummy player, but our strongest scum reads were at risk of getting shot themselves: 1. We still don't like Tali. Grush has also voiced his dislike of Tali. Grush has KP and might've shot Tali. 2. Grush is a similar story. He has lurked and even a lynch hasn't gotten him to do anything useful. We want to see who he shoots. However, a bus was not really an option, because iGrok has said he thinks Grush is scum and he might want to pick up Grush. Swapping a mob hit for a donkey kong right, seemed like a really bad idea. Als night and having a town read donkey konged seemed like a bad idea 3. iGrok also couldn't be swapped for the same reason as Tali. I'm still pretty null on Saturn and Risen, but have a townie read on HRB. I just followed SnB's advice to swap Cephiro with the player least likely to take damage. I also kinda liked that Risen had 3 stock, so was not in any immediate danger. [5-7-2012 00:41:30] Artanis: hm [5-7-2012 00:41:53] Artanis: sure [5-7-2012 00:42:12] Artanis: Sounds okay Unless you want a few more posts like this there's not much I can give you. Yeah, as much as possible please. We need to do as much as possible to maybe confirm that you're town. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 07 2012 08:17 HomerunBat wrote: If cephiro isn't lying he'll shoot grush, so no worries there. He isn't lying - the concern would be that grush is town in which case cephiro + dedede have this almost all the way in the bag. They have 2.5 kp to work with and hiropro already committed to shooting me. Even if I switch from carrying mister saturn to one of them we'd have to get lucky with grush's shot and get hiropro to change his mind to have a chance at not having two dead townies in the morning. It sort of occurred to me that what I said about "if dedede and cephiro were scum one will change their mind at the last second blahblahblah" actually happened and I didn't even notice. I really really really want to rule them out as a possibility and pray that hiropro and snb just made those convos up because they're smart players so pretty please artanis with sugar on top, post as much of the stuff that you can with acrofales. Even if you have to spend an hour editing it, please do. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
If hiro is truly shooting me and it actually turns out to be dedede and cephiro then gg. I can't argue with the fact that dedede has an incredibly town filter. | ||
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talismania
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On July 07 2012 08:35 Toadesstern wrote: THAT'S GETTING A LITTLE TOO MUCH... YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO FIGURE SOMEONE OUT BY OUT OF THREAD INFORMATION. IT IS ALLOWED TO POST THE INFORMATION WHEN BEING ASKED FOR A SPECIFIC REASON (YOU WANTED TO KNOW WETHER OR NOT SUCH A QT EXISTED) BUT THIS IS GOING THE WRONG WAY... YEAH I KNOW I SAID IT'S OKAY AS LONG AS YOU ONLY POST THE TEXT BUT IF THIS GETS TO BE A "ALL HYDRAS POST EVERYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF FIGURING PEOPLE OUT" I HAVE TO REVISE THIS. NO POSTING ABOUT SUCH THINGS MORE THAN WAS ALREADY POSTED toad you gotta know that when I'm involved I'm trying to break the game in my favor =P | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
Hiropro, please consider shooting one of cephiro/acrofales tonight instead of me (lol as if). You can always get me lynched tomorrow. Based on the intra-hydra talk (I ain't ignoring that shit you're all dumb for ignoring any evidence) honestly artanis+acro look the worst. I'm going to switch my carry onto cephiro I guess since it seems like the only thing I can do to convince you guys I'm not scum with him. Hiro I guess that should make your life a lot easier but again please consider just shooting cephiro. That means, [b]grush[b] if you want to hit cephiro again without worrying about the bus driver you can shoot me. Or you can just shoot cephiro. either way. ____________________ Top lessons from this mafia game: 1) Never brag that when you're town, you're so town everyone knows. Apparently that's not always true. 2) When you're town (this goes for everyone in this game) always always always doubt yourself, particularly if you find yourself tunneling the same person for a long time. Assuming I won't be alive tomorrow. It's been fun playing with you! | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
If it's a no-lynch, they can't win right away. They'd have 2.5 kp and could only kill one townie (grush or you in this scenario) with it. But by switching the lynch to me, they can win by using their 1 kp on grush and their 1.5 kp on me (which you would be acting as insurance on) and therefore get rid of two townies. Anyway hiro When you're town (this goes for everyone in this game) always always always doubt yourself, particularly if you find yourself tunneling the same person for a long time. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
You interactions with strongandbig seem legit as well, while artanis' reluctance to delve into his with acro set off some alarm bells (what he did pull out looked like post coaching which also raises eyebrows). That said I will reiterate that acro has been playing really well if he is scum, acting just randomly enough to seem townie without messing up an underlying scum agenda. Actually what about this: grush shoots me (I carry cephiro/dedede) and you shoot whomever I'm carrying. I'm at 0.5 kp and might die to a stage event but at least the game doesn't end right away if it really is cephiro+dedede. They can't shoot at me without dying themselves because your shot + grush's shot through me puts one of them at 0.5 kp. Kinda late at night here but is this crazy? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
I'm going to carry cephiro. Sleep on it tonight and before the deadline tomorrow at least give it one more readthrough and think-through. Talk to strongandbig if possible. The way I see it, if you're scum you're already dead once grush flips scum and I flip town. If you're town and think I'm scum with cephiro, shooting cephiro and having grush shoot me puts as both at 0.5 kp and therefore the scumteam you think is active is essentially crippled with no vote swaying ability anyway and the chance to die to the stage event. I guess if bus driver buses cephiro with homerunbat or something then this simply doesn't work though. Man. Ok lemme think this through. If it's dedede + cephiro then obviously bus cephiro with homerunbat I guess. Then they have 2.5 kp to work with. If you're shooting me, then it's EZ win by killing grush. If you're not shooting me, then it's EZ win by using the NK on grush and cephiro's shot on me. Although if they really think that grush is going to shoot me, they can just use the NK on me and cephiro's shot on grush in order to avoid accidentally killing themselves if both saturn + cephiro shoot me. Dear lord the only way town survives the night in this scenario is if they would be wifom'd into making the wrong decision about where to put their kills. Seems impossible though. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 08 2012 02:24 Mister Saturn wrote: I'm moving my things to a storage facility so I won't be there at deadline. s&b, you can do whatever you like. Dear strongandbig, From a neuroscientist to a physicist, please consider all the evidence. Much love, talismania | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
I thought the only chance we had was if hiropro could be convinced to change his mind but alas it was too late. acro/cephiro well played. ps no one ever call me scum again for focusing on the setup. The nonrandom nature of the setup here shouldn't have been so overlooked. | ||
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talismania
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if we lynched grush it would have been 3v2 and they could have used their 2.5 kp on mister saturn. | ||
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