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Well it was ignored day 1, but perhaps with more information available to us now you will see that I was correct in my original annalysis.
I will start with his post responding to my original post.
On June 23 2012 10:15 risk.nuke wrote:So my first thought is what two players are yelling the loudest at eachother. It's Vicera and Marv. So naturally my first assumption would be to remove both of those from my day 1 lynch pool. While Vicera doubtlessly seems like the towniest townie ever towned marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town. Anyway lets go to Rastaban, I'm sort of writing this on the fly out of lazyness so I still haven't decided who I want dead the most yet. + Show Spoiler [Rastaban Says] +On June 23 2012 00:31 rastaban wrote:I would like to put forward a new actor into the spotlight who I feel doesn't want this movie finished. One risk.nuke! This fellow looks shady to me and he must have gotten Kirsten Stewart for his actor for the poor job he has done hiding his distain for our movie. Check it out: Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:28 risk.nuke wrote:
Well Zentor started out very strong but then his activity dropped which is all-in-all a scumtrait.
He spends half of his posts unnecessarily defending himself and the other half is useless 1-worders. I would very much like him to come here and explain himselves. Seeing how he can be one of the largest postcount in this game and have said so little of significance. This is his most rounded and contributing post... And it is a joke post. Next we get this gem: Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:52 risk.nuke wrote:
While I agree Zentor is a scourge to have on the gamefield I don't think we should kill him to be rid of him. That's not the way. As for now I want to hear from more players. Not much here, he defends Z but against an attack that was never going to happen anyway so a null read on this one Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:57 risk.nuke wrote:On June 22 2012 07:53 Snarfs wrote:
I have a great idea guys:
Let's lynch Probulous so that we immediately know which team is going to lose, then whoever is on that team can just forfeit and we all save a ton of time!
##Vote Probulous! what? What a quality contribution, but after wanting to hear more from players he certainly doesn't add anything himself or even push this thought further. The original post was a joke regarding probs penchant for losing lately but risk doesn't follow up to even find that out. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:03 risk.nuke wrote:
I say we lynch zephirdd on account of not realising we're past fun-time. Wants to lynch zeph but like most bad actors he says the lines but doesn't have his actions (vote) match up to his words. He doesnt want to have the case lead back to him, and until more people have joined in he holds his vote. Perhaps you might think he is an actor who values life and is very conservative with his voting habits, but you will soon see that is not the case. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:55 risk.nuke wrote:
lol, ok #1 scum response
##Vote: marvellosity Now he gets crazy like Charlie Sheen, he now throws his vote onto the marv train, but he doesn't add anything to the arguments, he doesn't even mention agreeing with others but instead he bases his vote off one post. What was this incriminating post? Well I thought it must have been the dodge marv made or perhaps his posts where he says he is confidant he doesn't get lynched, but no it is this one. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:53 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 08:41 Zephirdd wrote:
This is a semi-closed setup. If there are 13 players, it's possible that 12 are medics and 1 is a scum. Of course that's retarded as fuck, but nothing is concrete and we shouldn't think "but it's not common to 2 of X" exist ever. at all.
In fact, we can't even confirm the existence of a SK until after the night phase.
I'm not sure about Millers instaclaiming. While it clears path for cops(as it's pretty obvious that they will show red), it also reduces the number of possible blues, making it easier for scum. At least what I understood from the setup is that Millers can't be blues.
If anything, Millers should be breadcrumbing and claiming in case a cop calls them guilty. For all other purposes, they should be *Vanilla*(unclaimed, aka. possible blue) to make it harder for mafia to shoot into blues. Thanks, I will pass this on to my scumbuddies immediately. Marv is showing how absurd it is to have millers breadcrumb so they can be saved later, and this post is the one risk decides justifies throwing the weight of his vote behind? I think he thought the risk train was gaining momentum and wanted to get on board. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 19:01 risk.nuke wrote:
##Unvote: marvellosity
##Vote: von Klaust II Here is his latest post, what!!!??? This is so out of the blue, he never says why he changes his mind, he doesn't even say why he votes for klaust though I am guessing inactivity. This is a huge throw away vote meaning nothing as he doesn't even ask for klaus to speak up. On top of that look at the time stamps, this occurs 10 hours after his Last post. So picture this, risk votes marv, 10 hours later he comes and votes klaust with no reasoning at all. Ahha, but what has changed? Well I and a few others have pushed for slowing down on tunneling marv, and he realizes that it might not happen. Prob mentions the lurkers need to get posting and names klaust as one of them, risk immediately votes for him. So he has 10 hours between his posts and apparently knows enough to change his mind on the marv lynch and that klaust hasn't posted yet and still we don't get even a single line of content from. This is a mafia mindset, all of hs targets are equally scummy since none of them are scum so he doesn't care about who gets lynched as long as it isn't them. Let's kick this sham of an actor off our set before he changes this movie from Signs into The Happening. ##Vote: risk.nuke There are alot of things I don't like in his so called analysis of me. Mainly because these posts were made right at the start of the game and were mostly just for getting up the activity and he complains how they are content-short. It should be obvious why it's impossible to make a case when you're the first player to talk. Oviously he doesn't approve of the case, and he says the posts were made right at the start of the game, so there was nothing to discuss. Only the first 2 posts fit this criteria and I pointed out they weren't applicable. What is else is that you will see nothing has changed since this point in his posting habitsSecond I think it favors town to lynch mafia rather then prioritizing people soley because they are unpleasant and that's what I said. How is it scummy? I didn't understand that inside joke that post seemed to be and I wanted Prob to come back and explain himself or post some more. Scum are sometimes a bit tense and scared to jump into the thread and zephirdd choose to jump in with some joke-post which I thought was suspicious. His entire, Oh the game has started "insert joke stuff here" felt in the spur of the moment like a condemnable lie. I voted marv because I though that was something a mafia would say when they thought the case against them was poor. Then lastly he's completely misinterpreting my voteswitch. This you probably don't know but I felt a bit annoyed because i realised that in my last games I've had an unstatisticly high ratio of misreads in the earlygame and I came to the conclusion that it's because I'm to lenient to lurkers. So I pressurevoted a guy who still hadn't joined us (but shortly after did~ heeyoo~) Anyway I didn't explain myself because I thought a pressurevote on a lurker was decent reasoning enough and it shouldn't had been so hard to figure out that was what I was doing without me spelling it out for you. Here he admits he is changing his play style and his reasoning is he is too lenient to lurkers, but he is lurking this whole game. I don't buy it+ Show Spoiler [Rastaban Says II] +On June 23 2012 03:08 rastaban wrote:
Wow, really surprised no one sees the vote switching without any reason at all not scummy. My case is misconstrued as "risk.nuke has not yet posted anything of value." That would be a case against
Also I never saw Sloosh's post as it took me far longer than 30 minutes to work up a case against risk. You know why ,because I don't throw accusations around wildly until I have convinced myself.
Last game as a doctor I had no gun and so I had to mafia reads and a town read but since it was my first game in a year and I was afraid that without a gun if I pushed too hard they would want me to shoot and out my role. Well no one seemed to care about my cases but me but in the end I was correct.
Day 1 of Bang Bang I posted this: "Meapak_Ziphh, your filter looked really bad last night tons of filler and no posts contributing to discussion, but you seem to be posting more like your normal self today. Mind explaining what was going on?" I actually had an entire case typed up like I just did for risk and yet I decided to go easy and let him slide, well guess what he was GF. If I had pushed for him like I thought I should have day 1 we might have outed GF immediately.
This game I am trying something different since I don't worry about having a gun, I am going to push my scum reads and try and save my town reads. If I get lynched for that, at least town gets a trail votes to follow that led up to it.
Sorry but this is so similar to bang bang's Gonzaw fiasco where everyone clamored about him being red while I thought the case against him was awful, he gets shot flips blue and since it was almost all townies pushing the lynch we started the next day clueless as to where to begin which is why I had to post the Cephiro case linked above to begin with. So yeah, I stand by thinking risk is our best candidate and want him lynched. I am putting forward someone who is actually scummy instead of the marv case where half of it is based on his reaction to a leading question. Not much here but I think it's safe to say it shouldn't take 30 minutes or more to analyse what very little I had written, come on, it's not many lines. Another key thing, he faults how long it took me but as you will soon see for thinking it only takes 30 min to argue a case he doesn't ever post one himself.In this post Rastaban makes sense. He supports the miller-must claim which is basic. Though I wouldn't award him town-points for agreeing. The second paragraph is more interesting to me. It shows that he knows how to be carefull with bandwagons. Which makes no sense at all that the next thing he does is he try to push me hard on exagerated and out-of-context reasoning. I think I'm done with rastaban but it's 3:15 now. Sorry T.B.C. tomorrow.
He ends with T.B.C. tomorrow, but as you will see he never followed up with anything to help town from this point on.
Let me lump he next few posts together.
On June 24 2012 01:49 risk.nuke wrote:
rastaban zephirdd and zentor, what are your thoughts on eachother?
On June 24 2012 01:53 risk.nuke wrote:
vonKlaust II what are your thoughts on the lynch?
Instead of contributing any original thoughts at all to the conversation he sits around asking 1 line questions with no follow up. This is a perfect way for scum to hide as it doesn't require any original thoughts from them.
On June 24 2012 02:22 risk.nuke wrote:
There are a few hours left but it's starting to become time we worked up on a majority. I'm going to vote for Rastaban
##Unvote: von Klaust II
##Vote: Rastaban
Again we have a vote, this time on me but what is missing? Any reasoning on why. His biggest reason is to start working on a majority, but at this point we already had or almost had one on Zentor, so why vote for me over zentor? I think he just wanted to spread out the mafia vote so they weren't all on one guy.
On June 24 2012 04:47 risk.nuke wrote:
Honestly I'm fine with both Zentor and Rastaban (Klaus aswell and maybe zephirdd), I'm feeling I prefer rastaban but I don't care enough to sway people one way or the other. Aslong as we have majority on one,
This post is incredibly incriminating... he is fine with lynching 4 different people. He has yet to give a single reason on any of them but he finds all of them viable targets. To me this is the words of mafia and not a town player.
On June 24 2012 04:54 risk.nuke wrote:
Rastaban if you still think I'm scummy why haven't you bothered defending your case?
Another post where he asks questions of other players and yet still adds 0 to the game himself.
On June 24 2012 04:58 risk.nuke wrote:
I agree completely prplhz those are thoughts I've felt about zephirdd aswell.
On June 24 2012 05:00 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 04:58 risk.nuke wrote:
I agree completely prplhz those are thoughts I've felt about zephirdd aswell. The Miller point and the VE+Marv=scum.
Now he agrees with someone, and says he had been thinking the same thing. He uses past tense and yet why didn't he bring the accusation forward or say something but instead waited on others? He has already said it shouldn't have taken me 30 minutes to put a case together against him, and yet he is so busy he can't not only put a case together but not even add a single original thought this entire game.
He hasn't added a single thing to this entire game, and his only time to post anything longer than a line or two was when he felt threatened. He promised to follow up but didn't, He was fine with lynching any of four people, never trying to narrow those results down to the right one because as scum he doesn't care who dies when they are townies..
##Vote risk.nuke
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On June 25 2012 07:34 Zephirdd wrote:
ebwop
actually a jailer could have saved the target instead of stopping it from shooting, which makes a lot of sense actually.
Yeah I was doctor last game with a night 1 save so It seemed most likely, I had also forgot in this one you could block night KP, in bang bang you couldn't block KP.
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On June 25 2012 07:51 risk.nuke wrote:
Rastaban if you really are townie (which I don't think you are) you dodged a lynch last night and seeing how we mislynched a townie that makes the situation even worse for you. My point is if you don't want to die soon you should do something more usefull then dumb shit tunneling.
Sorry scum, but you can't shake me. Is that really your version of a defense?
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Also when are you going to start contributing? In pick your poison when you were town you said
On May 30 2012 22:55 risk.nuke wrote:
I fully agree we should form a plan for the poisons. As it's already been said some of them are looking very dangerous. One thing I'm not sure about is if we can just remove two because it wont go past day5. If there is a medic save or just for theory for whatever reason the mafia decides not to kill anyone it could prolong the game into that zone. So I think it might be a safer to not leave for example these
-The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote
-Majority + 1 is required for a sucessful lynch
for that window. I do however see it as unlikely that it will come to day 7 so we can probably safely remove 1.
For the voting I'm not sure if one power is stronger then the others but I agree that we're probably better of not sharing our votes ahead of time (so we use the encryption system) because I don't think any power we give the mafia will be more advantagous for us then not letting them know what we're giving them.
Until I started looking at your history I thought maybe you had never posted more than 1 line, then I realized you do when you actually wanted town to win.
Or how about when you actually tried to analyze people?
On June 03 2012 23:50 risk.nuke wrote:
I think we should lynch zephirdd for two reasons.
1. It will shed light on the voteswitch. It is infact very important that we learn zephirdds aligntment or we'll just stab ourselves in the foot if he turns out to be town.
2. Wbg was for lynching 3 people. Myself, Navillus and Zephirdd (And kurumi who he might not have pushed for because he didn't think he could get him lynched). Wbg was killed which indicates that the mafia believed he was on to something. Knowing that I am town, Navillus is town that leaves Zephirdd (and Kurumi).
How comes you contribute in that game but not in this one? Why you want town to lose?
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On June 25 2012 08:30 prplhz wrote:
If we have a roleblocker then he should just claim who he blocked and we lynch that guy. It's that simple. The odds of us having a roleblocker AND a jailkeeper who jailed successfully should be negligible in a balanced-for-teamliquid C9++. If there is a jailkeeper and there is no roleblocker claim then this jailkeeper should think carefully if his target is now confirmed town or confirmed scum.
If I understand right we have no way of knowing. The rb could have blocked someone and it was a jailer that save the hit so the rbs block didn't matter. The guy the jailer tried to save could have been the shooter, or the guys role blocked could have shot. No one claim, at least not yet as we don't know what could have happened.
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On June 25 2012 09:06 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:53 Probulous wrote:On June 25 2012 08:49 Zephirdd wrote:
Let me tell you what I think happened. VE was jailed. Then scum KP didn't happen. Then you thought "fuck, our goon was jailed." and then you posted that. Zephirdd, if scum's shot was blocked because the shooter was jailed they would get a roleblock notification. Well, we would never know that right? A roleblocked scum would never claim it.
Why not, we don't know if he was the one hit, or if he tried to shoot and got blocked. you get notified both ways and as Artanis said even if they are notified they haven't been yet since he isn't sure. On top of this their could be a role blocker out there as well that may have actually stopped the kill. not counting possible duplicate roles.
I think claiming to have been roleblocked last night is fine if you got one, as mafia might have a RB as well.
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On June 25 2012 09:11 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:54 rastaban wrote:On June 25 2012 08:30 prplhz wrote:
If we have a roleblocker then he should just claim who he blocked and we lynch that guy. It's that simple. The odds of us having a roleblocker AND a jailkeeper who jailed successfully should be negligible in a balanced-for-teamliquid C9++. If there is a jailkeeper and there is no roleblocker claim then this jailkeeper should think carefully if his target is now confirmed town or confirmed scum. If I understand right we have no way of knowing. The rb could have blocked someone and it was a jailer that save the hit so the rbs block didn't matter. The guy the jailer tried to save could have been the shooter, or the guys role blocked could have shot. No one claim, at least not yet as we don't know what could have happened. Yea, I'm kind of covering all that in my post. Roleblocker claim is the best thing he can do right now, jailkeeper need to think it over if he wants to claim and he probably shouldn't unless he's very sure about himself (in which he probably can't help it but to claim).
Why do you want them to claim? that seems really bad to me. Am I missing something, but if they claim we still don't know who shot, there is a chance it was the person they blocked but we don't know that for sure.
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On June 25 2012 09:15 marvellosity wrote:
Surely the person who got roleblocked should just claim, not the person jailing/roleblocking?
yes, and remember anyone jailed hasn't been notified yet so no jumping the gun as we don't know the jailers yet.
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On June 25 2012 09:17 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 09:15 marvellosity wrote:
Surely the person who got roleblocked should just claim, not the person jailing/roleblocking? yes, and remember anyone jailed hasn't been notified yet so no jumping the gun as we don't know the jailers yet.
What I mean by "we don't know the jailers yet" is that if there is only a role blocker then his target is most likely scum, however if there is a jailer or more than one role blocker (including a scum one) then the chance of the claimer being scum is way less.
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On June 25 2012 09:21 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 09:12 rastaban wrote:On June 25 2012 09:11 prplhz wrote:On June 25 2012 08:54 rastaban wrote:On June 25 2012 08:30 prplhz wrote:
If we have a roleblocker then he should just claim who he blocked and we lynch that guy. It's that simple. The odds of us having a roleblocker AND a jailkeeper who jailed successfully should be negligible in a balanced-for-teamliquid C9++. If there is a jailkeeper and there is no roleblocker claim then this jailkeeper should think carefully if his target is now confirmed town or confirmed scum. If I understand right we have no way of knowing. The rb could have blocked someone and it was a jailer that save the hit so the rbs block didn't matter. The guy the jailer tried to save could have been the shooter, or the guys role blocked could have shot. No one claim, at least not yet as we don't know what could have happened. Yea, I'm kind of covering all that in my post. Roleblocker claim is the best thing he can do right now, jailkeeper need to think it over if he wants to claim and he probably shouldn't unless he's very sure about himself (in which he probably can't help it but to claim). Why do you want them to claim? that seems really bad to me. Am I missing something, but if they claim we still don't know who shot, there is a chance it was the person they blocked but we don't know that for sure. I'm sorry, did you not read my post? Who is "them" in "Why do you want them to claim?"? I don't know if you're missing something. Roleblocker is pretty useless role and if he got insanely lucky on day1 then he should claim 'cause that'll give us a lot of information and I think it's worth it.
What I was saying is that it doesn't really give us any information as we don't know what roles are in the game. How does it help us any more than just having the guy role blocked claim. Maybe we have him claim end of day if no one admits to being roleblocked but I think it is too early to have him claim yet.
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Ugh! Headed to bed now will worry about sorting this mess out tomorrow.
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Also snarfs for worst case timing ever lol.
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@Snarfs
But notice how even after he says to remove both of them he follows up with "marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town." which leaves it open for a future vote and still throws suspicion on marv. As for removing VE from the lynch pool, marvs recent vote on VE was the first this whole game. Despite the back and forth it was only ever 1 way, VE was not in any danger of being lyched at any point so all he really states is: don't vote marv yet, but he is a bit scummy.
Also a lot of people had come out in defense of marv by that point saying we need to hold off on lynching him. If this had been the one to help get the votes off marv I would be more inclined to think it town aligned but as it is, it just seems regurgitated to me.
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On June 26 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
why don't you try actually commenting on my case, rastaban?
I don't see how you go from one moment thinking VE is so town that both a jailer and mafia would try and hit him noght one to then thinking he is the leading scum.
I think it is most likely that you are both town arguing with each other like you and gonzaw in bang bang. I thought maybe VE was scum for a bit as well due to the fact that he didn't get a single vote yesterday despite the back and forth but going through his filter I didn't see it. He also tried to lead yesterday's lynch which scum is often hesitant to do.
marv, what are your thoughts on risk? he hasn't changed a thing since I called him out yesterday, and now says we should ignore him because he is lazy....
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On June 26 2012 10:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
He wants to know why in an effort to establish your townieness via the method you chose, you answered rashly without thinking when the point of the exercise was to honestly answer the question so you can be judged either scum or town right then. There's not a lot else I can say on the matter by this stage. If that's really enough to lynch me then whatever. I hate that there are so many players who basically haven't contributed this cycle. Where is Matt and his promised reads? Where are Shraft and Snarfs? Why is rastaban always so irrelevant? Why does risk who always has an opinion not have an opinion?
Hey I am not sure what you want from me, since day one I have had a town read on both you and VE. I think Risk is scum (you admit hasn't contributed). I agree a lot of people are very absent and need to get posting so we can see what side they are on.
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@ Mattchew
"He thinks marv is scummy but did not want to vote for him day 1? That's perfectly reasonable play."
Guess what Zentor was much scummier than Marv day one, which you yourself must have thought or you wouldn't have voted him as well. At the time I posted that statement we were early in day one and people were starting to bandwagon marv before we could evaluate everyone. SO yeah it was reasonable, jumping on the wagon is what wouldn't have been reasonable.
Isn't it obvious why VE is town, we have the only person voting for VE claiming he was was the most likely mafia shot and others saying he is the towniest of the town.
I don't know about marv yet, I felt he seemed town yesterday as he spent the whole time fending so I never got a chance to see much from him. His actions today don't feel mafia to me, His sudden switch on VE would obviously put him under scrutiny but he still did it, that is something a town player would be more willing to do than a mafia.
Risk is my Number one read and I am looking through the filters of some of the other players to find possible scum. I will look through prplhz again
That said why are you posting 3 different people with miniature cases? I would much prefer an actual full case on someone rather than cherry picking an item or two on three different players. Everyone makes small decisions that isolated can make them look scummy, it is finding a trail of them to show it wasn't just a single bad play that helps us make an informed decision.
@Probulous, didn't get to review your case as well as I wanted to, and I need to get off for a bit but I will look back over it in case I am reading marv wrong in the morning and give you my thoughts.
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Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 11:42 Probulous wrote:marvellosity Marvel started this game in an open manner by offering to answer any question asked of him but he was suprised by Mattchew's question and responded rashly. This in itself is not a scum tell, an off balance townie could do the same. But his subsequent insistence on not responding is damning in my eyes. + Show Spoiler [Marvs initial reaction] +On June 22 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:19 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now...
:/
Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. TOWNGod, that was easy. Who's next? .........what kind of questions? Obviously that's what I meant marvel LOL well, that part of the figuring out bit I thought I'd leave to you. On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote:Hi All, I want MrZentor dead. On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now...
:/
Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. On June 22 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote:
lol, ok dear. If people could look for themselves, then maybe just one person in the whole of LV and the obsQT might have had a tingling suspicion, no?
No. On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situationprofit This is the key quote and one I keep coming back to. He has turned his initial confused response into a positive proof he is town. Why? This was very early day 1, VE had labelled him scum but VE always does this early and changes his position regularly. The simplest way to clear your name would be actually answer the question. Instead he uses the fact that he is acting scummy to try and clear his name, thus avoiding the work. Again, I can see a flustered scum here not sure how to respond so early in the game to this kind of pressure. So he decides to try and use that pressure to clear his name rather than doing the hard work and answer the question. It isn't easy playing a different meta than you are used to so if he could deflect the question he could continue to play his normal game. I am not marvellosity so I can't say whether he would respond the same way if he were scum or if he were scum, simply because I think he was caught off guard. All I can do is compare him to what I would expect a town or scum would do. I would expect a townie to say something like "Shit that's a hard question, give me some time to think about it" if he was thrown off balance. + Show Spoiler [My first response to Marv] +On June 22 2012 08:40 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
Votes = Tools. Not going over this again this game. Fair enough, I forgot who I was asking. You did back off Marv pretty quickly though. Why? I mean this is terrible and you pointed it out Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote:
Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. SCUM Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. He still hasn't responded adequately. He is around note Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:17 marvellosity wrote:
VE, prplhz last played with Zentor in WoF.
Enough said really. But is he isn't bothering to actually answer Mattchew's question. So yeah, why the let up? Marv, I want that alimony! On June 22 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote:
Probey, you'll have to get in touch with my lawyer.
And I have at least partly answered the question, you're just not on the ball enough to have worked it out yet. By now he is adamant that he won't respond to the question. It has not become a case of being flustered but a concious decision. When I join in the questioning, he dismisses me. He fobs me off with a "go read the thread" response. This attitude of not wanting to contribute and making others do the work is scummy. It's sarcastic and designed to rile me up. He did a similar thing to VE. Why would you respond in this manner if you were town? The tone is designed to piss people off. Remember marvel has chosen to act this way. He believes that by playing a scummy game he can appear town. That is his whole exlpanation at this point, so if he is scum it makes sense to piss people off. He can create confusion and a massive shitfest which ruins day 1. He clearly doesn't think he will get lynched, he say so later. VE, picks up on the tone issue in his next post. + Show Spoiler [VE] +On June 22 2012 08:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah let's lynch marv. Prob you down?
##Vote: marvellosity
Hubris does NOT become you sir. and I point out the ridiculousness of not answering the question + Show Spoiler [Probulous] +On June 22 2012 08:54 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote:
Probey, you'll have to get in touch with my lawyer.
And I have at least partly answered the question, you're just not on the ball enough to have worked it out yet. Show nested quote +count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situation Why are you so cryptic? It's your job to prove you're town so you should want to provide information to us. ##Vote marvellosityThis time it's personal@Mattchew, you have nothing to say  By now Marv's play is clear, refuse to answer clearly and then use his scummy play as an excuse. He has already gained two votes which would normally force a townie to actually contribute but he doesn't. Why? because this is his plan. He wants to look scummy and then go "hey look I always look scummy as town". On June 22 2012 08:55 marvellosity wrote:
it's not cryptic, it's blindingly fucking obvious. jesus christ Why the indignation here? Why is he is pissed off at both VE and myself for not realising that he is town because he looks like scum. It is a ridiculous premise so of course we want further explanantion. Then VE comes up with the defensive nature of marvel's posting which marvel used as his defense. the way I read this, VE is simply stating that Marv is using his defensive posting as an excuse for palying scummy. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? On June 22 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote:
I'm supposed to talk about someone else in my defence?
And in the nested quote it states quite clearly there weren't any accusations...
that's twice this game now you've misrepresented something, wilfully or not. i'm watching you Whether there are accusations or not is irrelevant. The point is you were using your defensive behaviour as a way to prove you're town. We cannot know this is true, there is no way of verifying it. Just because you were defensive in your last townie game does not mean if you are defensive here you are townie. ESPECIALLY if you use that as your defense. Again, surely a townie would just answer the original question clearly and transparently at this point. I mean both VE and myself were "obviously mistaken", but you didn't bother to clear that up did you? No the confusion was good, it was serving its purpose. + Show Spoiler [back and forth] +On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:
here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situation
profit Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. On June 22 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marv, I find myself to be terribly entertaining, so you're going to have to surround that statement with some sort of context if you want me to understand what you mean.
Now, my argument isn't about you defending yourself for the same reason. My argument is that you're defending yourself in the same fashion...using meta. You're encouraging everyone to leave the thread and go read other games. Why? On June 22 2012 09:46 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marv, I find myself to be terribly entertaining, so you're going to have to surround that statement with some sort of context if you want me to understand what you mean.
Now, my argument isn't about you defending yourself for the same reason. My argument is that you're defending yourself in the same fashion...using meta. You're encouraging everyone to leave the thread and go read other games. Why? one was a defence, one was not. do you see yet? i didn't encourage people to leave the thread to read other games. i said i never said anything scummy in LV and I pointed out explicitly the scummy thing I was pressured for in magic. the whole original question was on meta, and now you're pushing me for defending on meta? really? I think VE got sidetracked here. Marv using meta is not a problem. As he states, the question was about meta. The point is that stating that "when you look scummy you are town" is not a useful use of meta. It doesn't answer the question and allows you to just refuse to answer. A useful meta point would be "when I am scum I tend to ..." not when I am scum I look like town. Anyway, I want you to note that he has now created a case against VE based on him being misrepresented twice. This will come up later. This is a pretty good post from VE which is clearer than his previous ones. On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:
here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situation
profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta. You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. The point being, answer the original question clearly and transparently if you don't want people to misunderstand your reply. At this point it is clear that marv has achieved a few things. He has the thread focused on him, he looks scummy but is using this to try and prove he is town, he has created some suspicion on VE. So I call him out on it. On June 22 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:46 Probulous wrote:
@Marv, do you think VE is scum? I think he's pushing me dodgily. Haven't worked out if it's scummy or VE just being VE yet. Which is a nothing answer. I guess that is fair enough at this point. This next post is another key one. On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:
here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situation
profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta . You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum. On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. So now the plan becomes clear. He was caught off guard early and made a response he would not normally make as either town or scum, but here he is saying the he would avoid it like the plague is he were mafia. But apparently not as town? It makes less sense from a town perspective to not answer a straight up question than it does from a mafia point of view. Mafia get away with causing a shitstorm knowing they are unlikely to be lynched. Why? Because he can fall back on his meta showing that he is careful as mafia. On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. On June 22 2012 09:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
See, the funny part is that you could ask yourself the same question. Why would you put yourself in this situation as town? It doesn't make any fucking sense. On June 22 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote:
a) because i'm unafraid
b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed Here we have the reveal that this was all a townie plan by Marvel to gain information on those pushing him. Really, well what has he gained so far? That VE may or may not be scum...That's it. In the process he has caused the whole thread to be entirely focused on him. Worse he doesn't regret it. He thinks it is a good idea. At this point we have had no other cases presented, no other scumhunting. Nothing. How is that a positive for town? Anyway I outline my position here + Show Spoiler [probulous position] +On June 22 2012 09:58 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:46 Probulous wrote:
@Marv, do you think VE is scum? I think he's pushing me dodgily. Haven't worked out if it's scummy or VE just being VE yet. See here is what I don't understand. - Mattchew asks you a simple question about what is different between your scum and your town play.
- You say it's a good question (it is actually) and then you don't answer.
- You get pushed to answer and you refer briefly to differences between the openings of two games (one town, one mafia). But you don't explicitly state what the difference are, or how they help us determine your alignment. To me it seems like an attempt to brush off the question and move onto other "more important" things.
- Then when other people start pushing you, you get all snarky which just makes me go
- You tell VE to go read the games but when he comes back with his response you say he is misrepresenting you but you don't think he is scum.
Why haven't you answered the original question? You admitted it's a good question, you claim VE is misrepresenting you but isn't scum so surely the best way to clear your name would be to outline exactly what you intended when you briefly referenced those games. I mean you seem to be saying that VE is mistaken but don't bother to actually take the time to thorughly correct the mistake. Why? Because you don't want to answer the question. Townies want to provide data and clarity and you just wanted to move onto other things. Has Matt just left the thread then? >< On June 22 2012 10:17 Probulous wrote:1) You proactively ask people to question you so you can prove your alignment.Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:
you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. 2) Then you dilberately obfuscate and avoid answering the questionShow nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote:
Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote:
lol, ok dear. If people could look for themselves, then maybe just one person in the whole of LV and the obsQT might have had a tingling suspicion, no? No. 3)You explain that this was not a mistake but instead part of an elaborate plan to do something no scum would do and so therefore prove you are townShow nested quote +On June 22 2012 10:05 marvellosity wrote:
"The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum." If you are town, you are saying that you deliberately avoided answering Mattchew to cause a shitstorm to prove you're town? You don't say it was a mistake, or a joke but rather a calculated plan. You give yourself too little credit Marv. I think you're scum who tried to joke off a difficult question and didn't expect people to latch onto it. Now you are backpedalling as fast as you can. To which I get this enlightening response On June 22 2012 10:19 marvellosity wrote:
wrong way of looking at it Prob
if I were scum I'd have thought more before answering matt's question. even if this conversation has been quite interesting WHY? Better yet why would you not do this as town. Especially after everyone starting piling onto you. Saying you are careful as scum is not a perfect defense that excuses you from participating. Note up till now he has provided nothing else. He hasn't pushed a case or done anything of value except defend himself with I am smart as scum so I wouldn't do that. I give you the perfect marvel plan. Play badly and then claim you have perfect scum play so you cannot be scum. TLDR: marvel was caught off guard by Mattchew's question and chose to throw it back to the thread. This in itself could be a town response but when he told us that his scummy behaviour made him town, he hit on a plan to ensure he wasn't lynched. He knew his initial response was inadequate but chose to use his scummy response as a tool to cause confusion and shit up the thread. By never taking the multiples chances he had, to clarify his original position, he ensured that the mess continued for as long as possible. Whenever VE or I pushed him to contribute he could just reply with his meta defense that he cannot be scum because scum would never do this. If we believe that, then we would never lynch anyone. If he had just stated the truth, that he responded rashly and would take the time to provide a proper answer, I would have dropped this case. But his insistence that it takes up as much of Day 1 as possible makes me believe he is mafia. ##Vote marvellosity
I feel this is a very well thought out argument against Marv. I had a rough time with VE's arguments as there was so much yelling back and forth but I think Probulous does a good job extracting the needed information here. Marvs insistence on shooting VE, only makes him look more like scum.
On June 26 2012 21:57 risk.nuke wrote:
Sure,
He's not mafia because he claimed vig and not a soul said something as the clock slowly ticked towards the deadline.
An SK is like a ninja, marv's been a rooster.
If he is a vigilante we get a shot tonight, or we force the mafia to roleblock+kill.
If he's a SK we also get a shot tonight, or we force the mafia to roleblock+kill.
He doesn't get his shot refunded, so wouldn't mafia just RB him tonight? No need to kill him since tomorrow he will have just not shot and we will be in the same situation. If he is scum then they would just pull their RB and claim RB no kill.
I feel like claiming Vig was the safest claim for mafia since there is no way to disprove it with a night situation as it can be blocked and there is no second chance like a normal blue role would have where you force mafia to take care of it.
|
Marv would you shoot snarfs instead of VE now or do you think VE is still the scummiest?
|
Snarfs huge post on zephirrd just before he died seems a bit strange. Mafia would have known the kills were off and probably scrambling to get it rectified instead of writing a giant argument against someone when they knew the NK post was off. I find it hard to see him as mafia at this point.
|
I am getting a very very scummy vibe from Mattchew. I just went back through his filter and a couple things stood out.
The zentor lynch for one. He was the only person who thought Zentor had claimed blue.
On June 23 2012 10:16 Mattchew wrote:
I am going against my policy of always lynching mrzentor cause I don't think it's smart to lynch a claimed blue in a mini on day 1 especially with no counterclaim... Are we thinking that he got lucky with his guess or someone is holding their tongue? Do you think someone counterclaiming would be worth it to likely Out 1 scum?
Ve Marv and prob i would like your thoughts on rasta..
He is also very quick to believe it. when he realized he made a mistake he quickly switches
On June 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:Is this not for this game.. Cause If not fuck me let's lynch mrz
Now think about this, for a town player they could make the same mistake, but they would be trying to root out if it was a valid claim or not. Instead he takes it at face value and thinks it is enough on its own not to lynch someone. Nothing changes from when he realizes Z is blue to actually green and yet that sole reason makes him switch his vote.
Like I said, town could make the same mistake, but I don't think it would be handled the same way.
Similarly we see today he posts this case:
On June 26 2012 12:05 Mattchew wrote:So I have three suspects in my list for scum/sk players. Those three (in order of how I would like them lynched/killed) are Rastaban, Prplhz and marvellosity
My First Suspect is Rastaban.+ Show Spoiler +On June 23 2012 04:10 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Second, the focus of Marv makes me think of karma after seeing him do it to Gonzaw in our last game together. We need to be careful with tunneling though, when you push someone so hard day1, they will often come across as scum no matter what since the only content you have is them trying to defend themselves against accusations. He could be scum but I just want to say that we need to be cautious, as I feel the case against him is a bit biased. Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate but I feel like there is too much discussion on him this early in our day. Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly.
That said I have a hard time getting anything from his filter right now. Some people analyze best when their quarry is under pressure but for me that introduces too many variables so I like to read posts where they aren't defending themselves. So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum? (big post by post case on Risk.Nuke that I am not quoting) Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 03:47 rastaban wrote:
When I review MrZentor I see someone who hasn't contributed much, which, while scummy, isn't enough to lynch yet in my opinion.,Especially when he commits to delivering something tomorrow. I have seen players like Foolishness say the same thing so I am inclined to give him till tomorrow before I make my Judgment on him.
This all feels extremely middle of the road, I am ready to jump on a bandwagon but don't want to commit to anything scum play. He also contradicts himself about the talks about Marv, then contradicts his we have 48 hours post, by posting a case that he is pretty deadset on, about risk.nuke. Overall I just feel like Rastaban's posting has been flaky and his case on Risk is bad. To answer his question to the thread, I read his vote switch that he was not confident in a Marv lynch, and that he wanted to pressure a lurker with no content. Also, his first 30ish hour case doesn't take into account that Risk.nuke has played many many games before ##Vote: rastaban Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 03:43 rastaban wrote:
@Snarfs
But notice how even after he says to remove both of them he follows up with "marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town." which leaves it open for a future vote and still throws suspicion on marv.
As for removing VE from the lynch pool, marvs recent vote on VE was the first this whole game. Despite the back and forth it was only ever 1 way, VE was not in any danger of being lyched at any point so all he really states is: don't vote marv yet, but he is a bit scummy.
Also a lot of people had come out in defense of marv by that point saying we need to hold off on lynching him. If this had been the one to help get the votes off marv I would be more inclined to think it town aligned but as it is, it just seems regurgitated to me.
He thinks marv is scummy but did not want to vote for him day 1? That's perfectly reasonable play. Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 10:21 rastaban wrote:On June 26 2012 10:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 26 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
He wants to know why in an effort to establish your townieness via the method you chose, you answered rashly without thinking when the point of the exercise was to honestly answer the question so you can be judged either scum or town right then. There's not a lot else I can say on the matter by this stage. If that's really enough to lynch me then whatever. I hate that there are so many players who basically haven't contributed this cycle. Where is Matt and his promised reads? Where are Shraft and Snarfs? Why is rastaban always so irrelevant? Why does risk who always has an opinion not have an opinion? Hey I am not sure what you want from me, since day one I have had a town read on both you and VE. I think Risk is scum (you admit hasn't contributed). I agree a lot of people are very absent and need to get posting so we can see what side they are on. I find this tone (throughout the game) when in conversation with Marv to be strange. He has not ever given a reason for thinking Marv or VE is town, yet constantly lumps them together as townies arguing. All in all, I find the tone of Rastaban's posts to be hesitant and a little off. I find that his lumping of townreads on players suspicious, and he has never really responded to a single case brought up. Instead he has just safely tunneled his forced case on Risk. I want scum Rastaban dead. He barely even defends himself even though he was extremely close to being lynched which shows me he's more scum than bad town (for you prob... <3) ##vote Rastaban
Next up we have PrplhzI have already posted my thoughts on his timing of his Zeph case. While I was wrong about MrZ being his scum teammate, that hasn't dropped my suspicions. He posted a case, when it had no chance of actually impacting anything. I can't see a reason a townie would do this. It is obviously not going to get the attention he should want it to receive and all it provides him with is the ability to later on say I've been making cases all game. He hasn't posted about Zeph since that day ended. I think enough time has been given to say WTF? and then he goes and posts this... Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 09:56 prplhz wrote:
VisceraEyes
marvellosity
How do you feel about risk.nuke? Like is Risk now your #1 target too now? Where did his suspicions of Zeph go? Why isn't he trying to push his case on him that he wanted to lynch me for calling him out on the weird timing? Why can't I equate almost anything he has done with a Town Agenda?
Finally we have Marv.I actually should maybe color Marv black, because I think his play just feels very off. I think I lean him being the SK more than I do him being scum. Either way he eventually needs a noose. His filter is long and fluffy. A ton of arguing with VE but even more deflecting of actual answers... instead he resorts to inane arguments full of WIFOM and fallacys, like in all these filter enhancing posts. Can someone pick me out anything pro-town from these? + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote:Hi All, I want MrZentor dead. On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now...
:/
Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. On June 22 2012 07:30 marvellosity wrote:
incorrect answer On June 22 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote:
lol, ok dear. If people could look for themselves, then maybe just one person in the whole of LV and the obsQT might have had a tingling suspicion, no?
No. On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. here's a clue count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation profit On June 22 2012 08:52 marvellosity wrote:
lol, ok. On June 22 2012 09:39 marvellosity wrote:
VE, you're so tedious sometimes. On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:
here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situation
profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta . You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum. On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. On June 22 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote:
a) because i'm unafraid
b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed On June 22 2012 10:19 marvellosity wrote:
wrong way of looking at it Prob
if I were scum I'd have thought more before answering matt's question. even if this conversation has been quite interesting On June 22 2012 10:13 marvellosity wrote:
it means you're a very special boy <3 On June 22 2012 10:20 marvellosity wrote:
who knew being the centre of attention was so tiring?! gosh On June 22 2012 10:39 marvellosity wrote:
we could dance? On June 22 2012 10:43 marvellosity wrote:
haha me too ^^ On June 22 2012 18:31 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate What an exceptionally stupid thing to say, well done. On June 22 2012 23:05 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:03 vonKlaust II wrote:On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:
I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.
1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy. 2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum. You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play. I didn't make a conscious decision to go 'lol gonna appear scummy now'. I read Matt's post and made a reply to it without giving it that much thought. The point being I give every post I make as scum due thought. On June 23 2012 07:15 marvellosity wrote:
'fabricated some fantasy'
your posts are just littered with insidious phrases like this. On June 23 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote:
If you're trying to figure shit out, you're doing a fucking awful job of it. On June 24 2012 03:29 marvellosity wrote:
No, I'm just arrogant and sarcastic.
But it's not the case. stopping cause the point is made and this is getting tedious. This alongside his flip-flopping on VE, which I think is less likely then the usual confident (he called himself arrogant) town Marv.
Instead of actually picking one person he decides to do three cherry picking small specific things rather than focusing in on one person and trying to get them lynched.
We end up getting our second mistake from him where his case against prp is based on not even reading the day post. How can he be taken seriously as hunting scum when he isn't even following thread. I think it shows that his goal wasn't to find scum but to look like he was.
We also have him pushing for marv, but look at how long it takes for him to actually switch to marv despite having him on his top 2 scum list. It takes 2 different people mentioning it for him to setup an obvious situation (who you shooting marv) to finally make a reason to justify his voting for marv.
I am not confident in killing Marv, I can understand what he means about being more careful when playing as mafia. In the past when I have played as mafia I reread everything looking for things that make me seem suspicious and remove them. Everything I say seems artificially sanitized, but as town I am more concerned about finding scum regardless of peoples opinions on how I do it. I say we let him live tonight and see what mafia does knowing who our Vig is. If he lives for a while we can come back to the issue and kill him but now mafia needs to make a choice. Also mafia may not even have a roleblocker but town does, or we might have a detective who can investigate him for us etc..
I think Mattchew is Mafia and a better lynch than marv today..
##unvote risk.nuke
##vote mattchew
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EPT
