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On July 02 2012 18:55 Mandalor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 18:52 Acrofales wrote: Okay, lets do it your way. Lets assume mK is town and BKE and Mattchew are scum.
At the time the Fox lynch was proposed mK was set to be lynched, at 10 votes to 7. What reason does a scum Mattchew or Marvellosity have to push forward another townie to be sacrificed? It actually increased the chances of scumbuddy BKE getting lynched. This makes NO SENSE.
When you can explain how your reasoning works, I may be willing to listen to you.
I think you're talking to vivax, but I'm gonna answer this for myself: Possible modkill of mK. If mK is town and inactive, there's a chance he will be modkilled and mafia could get two kills in pretty much one day by swaying the public opinion to another townie. Was talking to wiggl3s, but your answer is fine. Hadn't thought of that. It sounds like a hell of a lot of effort (and risk) to put into getting an extra townie killed. At least it's plausible tho.
Now, other than the late addition of a townie to Mattchew's list of death, mind making a case that isn't connection-based with BKE until we, you know, flip BKE as scum?
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On July 02 2012 18:57 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 18:56 Acrofales wrote:On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote:Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous.Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity Don't worry, I'll push it when people start waking up. DrWiggl3s burying it in spam is not making you look any better either. Ok, kingdede. Why don't you keep pushing your BM policy lynch like day 1? You seem to have a lot of backup from people like VE. I'm still hoping someone will shoot BM tonight. Otherwise I will be very happy with a BM lynch tomorrow too!
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Hi layabout. Glad to see you contributing to this town! Mind explaining your behaviour? Here's a reminder:
On July 02 2012 02:59 Acrofales wrote:I had a "leaning town" in my notes for you, but upon revising I'm not sure why. Maybe because of your first post. However, I just went through your filter and I don't get it. + Show Spoiler [casualman is town] +On June 30 2012 23:31 layabout wrote:casual is probably town because he broke the rules. His vote make me sick to my stomach. He has some explaining to do. Hyaach need to stop sitting on his ass waiting for someone else to make a case and do something. I don't get this: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 15:31 Hyaach wrote: hi town my second big mafia. Please don't shit it up with spam. i can't handle that.
Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 23:18 Hyaach wrote: I'm against lynching Kurumi. Don't know about policy lynch but detective pinkie pie from bastard mafia came to mind here. I cannot give a judgement worth anything about him at this time. This post indicates a slight town read on casualman. Yet he is now ready to lynch him. It also voices slight suspicion of Hyaach, yet he never follows up on it. Hyaach has done very little since layabout made this post, yet layabout never says anything about it. + Show Spoiler [casualman is retarded] +On July 01 2012 06:28 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:27 Vivax wrote: Guys, look at the voting thread. Casualman just voted for himself. That's his phase 2. He can't have done that. That would be retarded. I'll say it again: we don't lynch retards, we lynch scum. You want retards dead? Do them the favour of shooting them in the face rather than wasting lynches on it. Then comes his vote on casualman and accusing me of throwing my vote away. In short: 1. wants to lynch retards he has a slight scumread on 2. doesn't follow up pressure. 3. accuses people of throwing away their votes, then does the same. In closing: yes, layabout, I'm starting to think you're scum. Thank you for making me take another look at your filter!
Do you still think BKE is scum? What is your opinion on drwiggles and the general goings on tonight?
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On July 03 2012 01:06 marvellosity wrote: Acro, Matt, whoever - thoughts on wiggles please, especially in light of austin's recent posts Wiggl3s has angered me with terrible logic. It is BM or Zentor level bad. That makes it hard to see the motive behind his posting.
His aggressive activity when pushing and arguing with ET reminds me of town Zentor. His shitting up the thread to an amazing degree makes me lean scum.
austinmcc's analysis of his D1 behaviour seems to hit the mark as far as I'm concerned.
I also have a problem combining the lurk all through D1 with frenetic activity after the lynch.
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@layabout: what the fuck is wrong with you. I am requesting a ban post-game.
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I read since the daypost. Whoever shot BM: thank you for listening.
I'll talk about the lynch candidates when I have read the end of the night too (like... 5 pages. What happened there?) in a second. Some things in my earlier Vivax case no longer line up, so have to look that over. Katina has been flying largely under my radar, so I'll have to reread her filter. A link to the case wyould be grand. Also have to take another look at BKE.
Has grush done anything other than ask how the ringleader bowed post-death?
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Thoughts as I'm reading:
ghost_403 is suspicious of ET. I want to see his case, as I have a slight town read on ET, based largely on how he was arguing in favour of sanity with wiggl3s. Now that wiggl3s flipped town I'm not sure whether that was a scum shitting up the thread by getting into a dumb argument or two townies going at it. Ghost, why do you think ET is scum?
At least if ghost is posting I might be able to whipe out the "null" read next to his name.
Ghost's case on ET seems decent. Ghost: what do you make of ET's behaviour at night? I was largely null until his argument with wiggl3s. Bandwagoning onto Fox instead of mK is pretty null to me. I jumped on from the BM lynch which was going nowhere and picked Fox mainly based on marv being active and pushing it. They were both lurker lynches (and turns out the kenpachi rule fails just as badly on mK as the hipocrisy argument did for the fox lynch).
Scum has no reason to switch, but no reason to stay either.
Ghost: I want your opinion on ET's night fight with wiggl3s. BM's flip and your claiming to shoot him makes me think you're town, so lets have your opinion and more activity in the thread.
NoSmurf is bugs? I kinda saw that one coming. Was unsure between bugs and palmar, but clearly not a "not a smurf" So now that bugs is out, he gives a meta read on Katina. I don't know about the meta read, but what the hell was this:
On July 03 2012 08:40 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 07:56 Twelve wrote:I just honestly think im gonna get killed tonight because of how hard I was hounding BKE, who i still think is scum. NoSmurfsHere defends BKE multiple times, and ultimately is the one who started the foxtrotter bandwagon. His post seems EXTREMLY suspicious given what we know to be true now. On July 02 2012 09:08 NoSmurfHere wrote: Alright, here's the thing:
If mK comes back to vote he's 100% scum. I'm banking on him getting modkilled to even consider this a decent idea. Probably a stupid idea, but w/e. I don't like the BKE lynch and the only reasonable alternative now is foxtrotter.
I say that (particularly if fox flips town) we need to get a vig to shoot mK.
##unvote ##vote Foxtrotter Bright side: We will have a direction and know who to lynch when day comes. Whoever dies tonight, we need to go back and look through their filter. This is utter drivel filler. She clearly read the thread to get to Twelve's nonsense fear of dying (still not sure whether that's a paranoid useless townie, or scum theatrics, but lets talk about Katina). She didn't touch any of the interesting topics of the thread: mainly what to think of drwiggl3s or have a chat with the lonely ghost_403, but posted this nonsense instead. I'd like to hear from other people with some experience playing with her, but this set alarmbells off in my head after Katina had been flying largely under the radar.
Big surprise here, VE thinks Bugs is scum. Who'd've thunk that would happen after bugs claims?! Then VE backs down from the read. Mind at least telling us WHY you thought bugs was scum, but later you didn't anymore? You don't need to go all crazy townie spammer on us, just a quick explanation of why bugs was scummy and then looked townie. You and he have a pretty long history and, despite going nuts in the MTG game, I think it's usually interesting to see what you two have to say about each other.
BKE going at ghost pretty hard. I somewhat agree on the case. Later edit: hrmmm, going after the guy who shot BM. On the other hand, why would a scum BKE do this? Maybe just bad luck on picking the vigi to make a case on?
Will take another look at BKE, Vivax, Katina and ET and post my thoughts during the day.
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Okay. Lets talk about Vivax. Here's my case from last night: + Show Spoiler [full post] +On July 02 2012 17:41 Acrofales wrote:Marvellosity, why you no lead me to scum? I disagree with drwiggl3s. He seems to be implying that everybody should've voted for BKE, because the lynch was lead off him by scum. Clearly a possibility, but as the day went on I was also getting townier vibes about BKE, so it could just be townies realizing that lynching BKE was a bad idea when push came to shove. The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong. + Show Spoiler [votecount] + mKmKmK - 6
rastaban Kurumi Vivax austinmcc Foxtrotter grush57
BroodKingEXE - 6
Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Mandalor layabout
casualman - 2
BroodKingEXE casualman
Foxtrotter - 11
Marvellosity Mattchew Acrofales EchelonTee s0Lstice Hyaach VisceraEyes MajuGarzett NoSmurfHere Twelve ghost_403
Mandalor - 1
Adam4167
No vote: mKmKmK
There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount. The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering. The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great. grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with: + Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] +On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 01:49 layabout wrote:Current Votes: + Show Spoiler + (Top: most recent Bottom: least recent)
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BillMurray austinmcc ##Vote mKmKmK Vivax ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote Mandalor Kurumi ##vote mKmKmK EchelonTee ##vote mKmKmK Hyaach ##vote mKmKmK s0Lstice ##Vote: Katina Adam4167 ##Vote: Mandalor Mandalor ##vote: BroodKingEXE MajuGarzett ##Vote: NoSmurfHere Twelve ##vote: BroodKingEXE Bill Murray ##vote: BroodKingeXxe casualman ##Vote: casualman drwiggl3s ##Vote: BroodKingEXE ShiaoPi ##vote: BroodKingEXE rastaban ##vote mKmKmK BroodKingEXE ##Vote: casualman
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote Acrofales Acrofales ##vote BillMurray Mattchew ##vote casualman
casualman ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote: VE Katina ##Vote BroodKingEXE NoSmurfHere ##vote mKmKmK
VisceraEyes ##Vote: VisceraEyes
votecount: mKmKmK (7) austinmcc Vivax Kurumi EchelonTee Hyaach NoSmurfHere rastaban
BroodkingEXE (6) Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Twelve mandalor
Casualman (3) Casualman BrodkingEXE Mattchew
BillMurray (2) VisceraEyes Acrofales
Mandalor (1) Adam4167
NoSmurfHere (1) MajuGarzett
Katina (1) s0Lstice
As a member of our great (circus) town it is very important that you put effort and time into your vote. It increases your chance of winning. It is expected of town. It is not very difficult for town. It is benfiacial for town. It is risky for mafia. The more opinions mafia give and the more stances mafia have to take, the more likely they are to give themselves away. Avoiding putting in time and effort in voting is beneficial to mafia. With that in mind, why on earth are VisceraEyes and Acrofales throwing away their votes. Both players are known for domineering and leading threads for better or worse and it is surprising that they are happy to cast votes that will be of little consequence. These players: + Show Spoiler +Katina NoSmurfHere Mattchew Acrofales
Voted very early on and have not changed their votws. I am concerned that so many players are content to leave their votes like this when you consider the huge difference in the information available when they voted to the information available now. Casualman voted for himself. Either he is a townie that is playing to screw with us or he is mafia plaing to screw with us. We should kill Casualman. If we allow players to do that then we will be dealing with nonsense all game and once all of the active players are killed off our lurking brethren will see a bunch of rubbish get confused and lose. I still think we should kill Kurumi but he is at least half playing the game. ##Vote Casualman I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. + Show Spoiler [calls BKE scum] +On July 02 2012 04:05 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Your two posts on me: On June 30 2012 15:31 Twelve wrote: My initial thoughts are to be suspicious of Kurumi. He takes three posts to say very little, seeming to want to contribute without actually offering anything. I also agree that BroodKingEXE is suspicious for the same reasons, a long ranting post on a topic that he didn't seemed concerned about before the game started. I'm going to read the thread a bit more... just my initial thoughts. Does it matter what I was interested in before game? I wasn't scum or townie before the game, so it wouldn't reveal anything about more alignment. On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote:On July 01 2012 08:12 BroodKingEXE wrote: I think a vote count would be appropriate:
Votecount:
VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes ,Bill Murray mKmKmK(2): NoSmurfHere, rastaban BroodKEXE(4): Katina, casualman, VisceraEyes , ShiaoPi, Drwiggl3s Bill Murray(1): Acrofales Acrofales(1): Bill Murray casualman(3): Mattchew, BroodKingEXE, casualman This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? Your going to vote for me for posting a votecount? Funny how you ninja vote right after it, maybe you saw the count and thought you could get away with it while everyone was using it to get a gauge on the accusations. A vote is a powerful indicator of whether you are scum or not, a townie doesn't need to hide it as it reveals their townieness. Y u so scum bro Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me). However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss. Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on: - Me: confirmed town
- VE: slight town read
- Marvellosity: quite a strong town read, despite the bad lynch. The way he brought the lynch together was imho very townie.
- ShiaoPi: slight town read
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum Most of that still stands. However, the last part is clearly not true.
4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote).
Vivax, I am trying to puzzle out how this works from scum OR town. We now know mK is town. I cannot think of an explanation for how your vote ended up on him after defending him, regardless of your alignment. I want you to explain your thought process here to me, because the same happened slightly later again.
+ Show Spoiler [Vivax pre-votes marv] +On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote:Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous.Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity Marv dies at the daypost and flips town. Now why would a scum Vivax bother with such a post and then shoot Marv in the face? Unless Marv was shot by some utterly insane vigi (I had him fairly clearly town in my spreadsheet), but then the NKs don't add up. Seems to me Marv was shot by scum (makes perfect sense, as an active townie-looking player with a good reputation), so how does a scum-Vivax make a case on Marv and then shoot him.
These two actions don't make sense. The first one from either scum or town point of view, the second one from a scum point of view (from a town point of view it's just a really bad read).
These make me unsure of Vivax as scum. However, the rest of the case still points to a scummy Vivax. Given Katina and Hyaach's behaviour (thanks for pointing that one out, also flew under my radar), I'm going to give Vivax the benefit of the doubt for now.
@Vivax: I still want a better answer on the case than "lol, a stupid townie is burying your case under a pile of spam". I'm still not sure you're scum.
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On July 03 2012 22:06 Hyaach wrote: EBWOP ShaoPi, you have no right to be calling me to make cases btw, your filter are all easy to make post, fluffs and general post asking for response. You sound like a scum Maju so far. All question no stance.
Don't shoot the messenger. I agree with his assessment of you. Still reading filters, but you're definitely a candidate for lynching.
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I haven't played with Katina before, nor payed much attention to her in the games I've read. Her filter here is REALLY short and has a couple of red flags:
On July 02 2012 07:30 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 06:31 EchelonTee wrote: Mattchew, adam, ve, katina; is the mK lynch good to you? Something feels a bit fishy; I need reassurance or a cold slap in the face. We narrowly have time for a mass switch; only other option I see as feasible and good is a BM lynch. I don't like the mkmk lynch. I think that it happened all too easily. I don't think he's scummy enough to feel comfortable to lynch D1. There are other good candidates we should be focusing on like BKE or casualman. The general rule with BM is if he is causing chaos in the thread than he's town. So far he swearing and yelling at people and calling people out on their crap. There's more reason to think BM is town than Mafia. It reminds me of when people kept killing VE because he's VE. I would sooner lynch BKE or casualman than BM.
Defense of BM. Of course, plenty of people defended BM and not all of them can be scum, but I'd be willing to bet a couple of them are. Katina fits the bill.
WTF posts:
On July 01 2012 09:36 Katina wrote: Because trends are trendy!
So far you have accused mkmk of being scum and defending BKE. What are your reasonings to thinking that BKE is town? Do you have any other reads? Trendy trends are trendy??? This is not an explanation for wanting to lynch BKE, it's nonsense.
On July 03 2012 08:40 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 07:56 Twelve wrote:I just honestly think im gonna get killed tonight because of how hard I was hounding BKE, who i still think is scum. NoSmurfsHere defends BKE multiple times, and ultimately is the one who started the foxtrotter bandwagon. His post seems EXTREMLY suspicious given what we know to be true now. On July 02 2012 09:08 NoSmurfHere wrote: Alright, here's the thing:
If mK comes back to vote he's 100% scum. I'm banking on him getting modkilled to even consider this a decent idea. Probably a stupid idea, but w/e. I don't like the BKE lynch and the only reasonable alternative now is foxtrotter.
I say that (particularly if fox flips town) we need to get a vig to shoot mK.
##unvote ##vote Foxtrotter Bright side: We will have a direction and know who to lynch when day comes. Whoever dies tonight, we need to go back and look through their filter. I already said what I thought of this post.
There is a scummy whiff about her. Lynching her seems like a good plan for D2.
VE: what feels wrong about a Katina lynch to you?
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On July 03 2012 22:24 Hyaach wrote: my list
Mattchew Katina ShaoPi KtheZ
KK done. ...
Thank you for your meaningless list after a full cycle of lurking.
##vote Hyaach
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Actually ##unvote
This is too fucking stupid to be scum. KtheZ was replaced by Marv and IS ALREADY DEAD.
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Ah Mattchew. Can you shed some light on your town read of Katina?
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Hrmmm, I disagree. I don't know when she started making decent sensible cases and pushing her reads in Jubjub, but she has not done that yet here. I guess the frivolous nonsense is more like jubjub than like MTG, but I don't get the feeling she's putting effort into scumhunting this game (see her D1 reason, and later defense of her BKE vote), whereas she was clearly doing that in jubjub.
##vote katina
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On July 03 2012 23:45 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 23:42 Acrofales wrote:On July 03 2012 23:25 Mattchew wrote:On July 03 2012 23:14 Acrofales wrote: Ah Mattchew. Can you shed some light on your town read of Katina? she's playing more like here (jubjub mafia) then here (MTG Mafia) Hrmmm, I disagree. I don't know when she started making decent sensible cases and pushing her reads in Jubjub, but she has not done that yet here. I guess the frivolous nonsense is more like jubjub than like MTG, but I don't get the feeling she's putting effort into scumhunting this game (see her D1 reason, and later defense of her BKE vote), whereas she was clearly doing that in jubjub. ##vote katina I just gave you her entire filter from both games, and you refuse to read it? I read them both. That's what I came away with.
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On July 04 2012 02:33 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 22:05 Acrofales wrote:Okay. Lets talk about Vivax. Here's my case from last night: + Show Spoiler [full post] +On July 02 2012 17:41 Acrofales wrote:Marvellosity, why you no lead me to scum? I disagree with drwiggl3s. He seems to be implying that everybody should've voted for BKE, because the lynch was lead off him by scum. Clearly a possibility, but as the day went on I was also getting townier vibes about BKE, so it could just be townies realizing that lynching BKE was a bad idea when push came to shove. The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong. + Show Spoiler [votecount] + mKmKmK - 6
rastaban Kurumi Vivax austinmcc Foxtrotter grush57
BroodKingEXE - 6
Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Mandalor layabout
casualman - 2
BroodKingEXE casualman
Foxtrotter - 11
Marvellosity Mattchew Acrofales EchelonTee s0Lstice Hyaach VisceraEyes MajuGarzett NoSmurfHere Twelve ghost_403
Mandalor - 1
Adam4167
No vote: mKmKmK
There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount. The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering. The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great. grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with: + Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] +On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 01:49 layabout wrote:Current Votes: + Show Spoiler + (Top: most recent Bottom: least recent)
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BillMurray austinmcc ##Vote mKmKmK Vivax ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote Mandalor Kurumi ##vote mKmKmK EchelonTee ##vote mKmKmK Hyaach ##vote mKmKmK s0Lstice ##Vote: Katina Adam4167 ##Vote: Mandalor Mandalor ##vote: BroodKingEXE MajuGarzett ##Vote: NoSmurfHere Twelve ##vote: BroodKingEXE Bill Murray ##vote: BroodKingeXxe casualman ##Vote: casualman drwiggl3s ##Vote: BroodKingEXE ShiaoPi ##vote: BroodKingEXE rastaban ##vote mKmKmK BroodKingEXE ##Vote: casualman
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote Acrofales Acrofales ##vote BillMurray Mattchew ##vote casualman
casualman ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote: VE Katina ##Vote BroodKingEXE NoSmurfHere ##vote mKmKmK
VisceraEyes ##Vote: VisceraEyes
votecount: mKmKmK (7) austinmcc Vivax Kurumi EchelonTee Hyaach NoSmurfHere rastaban
BroodkingEXE (6) Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Twelve mandalor
Casualman (3) Casualman BrodkingEXE Mattchew
BillMurray (2) VisceraEyes Acrofales
Mandalor (1) Adam4167
NoSmurfHere (1) MajuGarzett
Katina (1) s0Lstice
As a member of our great (circus) town it is very important that you put effort and time into your vote. It increases your chance of winning. It is expected of town. It is not very difficult for town. It is benfiacial for town. It is risky for mafia. The more opinions mafia give and the more stances mafia have to take, the more likely they are to give themselves away. Avoiding putting in time and effort in voting is beneficial to mafia. With that in mind, why on earth are VisceraEyes and Acrofales throwing away their votes. Both players are known for domineering and leading threads for better or worse and it is surprising that they are happy to cast votes that will be of little consequence. These players: + Show Spoiler +Katina NoSmurfHere Mattchew Acrofales
Voted very early on and have not changed their votws. I am concerned that so many players are content to leave their votes like this when you consider the huge difference in the information available when they voted to the information available now. Casualman voted for himself. Either he is a townie that is playing to screw with us or he is mafia plaing to screw with us. We should kill Casualman. If we allow players to do that then we will be dealing with nonsense all game and once all of the active players are killed off our lurking brethren will see a bunch of rubbish get confused and lose. I still think we should kill Kurumi but he is at least half playing the game. ##Vote Casualman I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. + Show Spoiler [calls BKE scum] +On July 02 2012 04:05 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Your two posts on me: On June 30 2012 15:31 Twelve wrote: My initial thoughts are to be suspicious of Kurumi. He takes three posts to say very little, seeming to want to contribute without actually offering anything. I also agree that BroodKingEXE is suspicious for the same reasons, a long ranting post on a topic that he didn't seemed concerned about before the game started. I'm going to read the thread a bit more... just my initial thoughts. Does it matter what I was interested in before game? I wasn't scum or townie before the game, so it wouldn't reveal anything about more alignment. On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote:On July 01 2012 08:12 BroodKingEXE wrote: I think a vote count would be appropriate:
Votecount:
VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes ,Bill Murray mKmKmK(2): NoSmurfHere, rastaban BroodKEXE(4): Katina, casualman, VisceraEyes , ShiaoPi, Drwiggl3s Bill Murray(1): Acrofales Acrofales(1): Bill Murray casualman(3): Mattchew, BroodKingEXE, casualman This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? Your going to vote for me for posting a votecount? Funny how you ninja vote right after it, maybe you saw the count and thought you could get away with it while everyone was using it to get a gauge on the accusations. A vote is a powerful indicator of whether you are scum or not, a townie doesn't need to hide it as it reveals their townieness. Y u so scum bro Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me). However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss. Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on: - Me: confirmed town
- VE: slight town read
- Marvellosity: quite a strong town read, despite the bad lynch. The way he brought the lynch together was imho very townie.
- ShiaoPi: slight town read
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum Most of that still stands. However, the last part is clearly not true. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: On July 01 2012 21:45 Vivax wrote: ##unvote ##Vote mKmKmK Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). Vivax, I am trying to puzzle out how this works from scum OR town. We now know mK is town. I cannot think of an explanation for how your vote ended up on him after defending him, regardless of your alignment. I want you to explain your thought process here to me, because the same happened slightly later again. + Show Spoiler [Vivax pre-votes marv] +On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote:Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous.Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity Marv dies at the daypost and flips town. Now why would a scum Vivax bother with such a post and then shoot Marv in the face? Unless Marv was shot by some utterly insane vigi (I had him fairly clearly town in my spreadsheet), but then the NKs don't add up. Seems to me Marv was shot by scum (makes perfect sense, as an active townie-looking player with a good reputation), so how does a scum-Vivax make a case on Marv and then shoot him. These two actions don't make sense. The first one from either scum or town point of view, the second one from a scum point of view (from a town point of view it's just a really bad read). These make me unsure of Vivax as scum. However, the rest of the case still points to a scummy Vivax. Given Katina and Hyaach's behaviour (thanks for pointing that one out, also flew under my radar), I'm going to give Vivax the benefit of the doubt for now. @Vivax: I still want a better answer on the case than "lol, a stupid townie is burying your case under a pile of spam". I'm still not sure you're scum. Acro you didn't mention my post on Vivax at all. We're talking about Vivax, right? Because I asked about him and I posted about him? Why not mention my post about him on the matter? I expected NSH to ignore me, but you?! My sadness...is complete.
Why did I need to mention your case? I read it, it made sense. Vivax has been doing some really completely illogical stuff. But s0lstice said he's really playing into his town meta. s0lstice flipped town, so it clearly wasn't scum defending each other.
I'm also still unsure how the nightly case on marvellosity fits into a scumplay where you shoot him. Maybe the scumteam is not playing together nicely or something, but it just feels weird.
He is using terrible logic and I am having a hard time deciding whether it's scum logic or Zentor logic.
I think the lynch should be between Vivax and Katina.
Hyaach and BKE are possible options too. I have the feeling that BKE is starting to play, though. I like the last page of his filter a helluvalot more than the first 2 pages. Hyaach is useless. His list was terrible, but it was so laughably terrible that he must have balls of steel to post such a list as scum. I have seen his scum play in Bastard 2 and there he flew under the radar until he came under pressure. Here he posted that terrible list once under pressure. It's hard to make that match in my mind.
Someone asked about Twelve. I will look at him now.
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Oh, and just in case it's not clear from my vote, I currently favour Katina over Vivax.
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On July 04 2012 05:13 Kurumi wrote: I have some classified information, but I shall not share it because it could be manipulated. Charlie Romeo Utah Mike Bravo
This is nighthawk. The falcon has captured the sparrow.
You mean this kind of classified?
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Okay. I've read Twelve's filter and some of the points brought up about him. I now have a top 3 people I want to lynch. Twelve has some stuff that reads like scum. Compilation of the cases:
On July 02 2012 04:17 Mattchew wrote:Mattchew's People that need to die and why list2. TwelveBlatant contradiction in his first posts. Says he is all for Band wagon hatred, then jumps on the 2 bandwagons forming at that time (Kurumi and BKexe) + Show Spoiler +On June 24 2012 10:45 Twelve wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 14:17 Sinensis wrote:On June 23 2012 13:19 grush57 wrote: If you're too lazy to post about policy lynching me, then you would be too lazy to do anything else so goodbye, you would be useless to town anyways. You try explaining to 30 people why they should hate someone they don't know yet. I'm all for band wagon hatred! explain away On June 30 2012 15:31 Twelve wrote: My initial thoughts are to be suspicious of Kurumi. He takes three posts to say very little, seeming to want to contribute without actually offering anything. I also agree that BroodKingEXE is suspicious for the same reasons, a long ranting post on a topic that he didn't seemed concerned about before the game started. I'm going to read the thread a bit more... just my initial thoughts. Follow this with his next 2 posts, the first with quite possibly the worst reasoning for a vote ever (read completely forced reasoning to try and continue a bandwagon), and then a post trying to be cutesy and buddying with the thread saying "don't take it personally" yuck. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:12 BroodKingEXE wrote: I think a vote count would be appropriate:
Votecount:
VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes ,Bill Murray mKmKmK(2): NoSmurfHere, rastaban BroodKEXE(4): Katina, casualman, VisceraEyes , ShiaoPi, Drwiggl3s Bill Murray(1): Acrofales Acrofales(1): Bill Murray casualman(3): Mattchew, BroodKingEXE, casualman This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? On July 01 2012 17:12 Twelve wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 16:07 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote:On July 01 2012 08:12 BroodKingEXE wrote: I think a vote count would be appropriate:
Votecount:
VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes ,Bill Murray mKmKmK(2): NoSmurfHere, rastaban BroodKEXE(4): Katina, casualman, VisceraEyes , ShiaoPi, Drwiggl3s Bill Murray(1): Acrofales Acrofales(1): Bill Murray casualman(3): Mattchew, BroodKingEXE, casualman This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? Are you going to ninja vote me for posting a votecount? You got to be kidding me, own up to your vote and post it in the thread dude. Or are you a scum trying to jump the wagon unnoticed? Not sure that ninja voting is against the rules, but just so we can stay friends: ##vote: BKXI made my case against you, not really trying to hide anything. The current "bandwagon" against you is merely logical, nothing personal ^^ The #1 issue I have with these two reads that I can't seem to get over in my head is where Twelve calls out casualman. I can't tell if this is an act of distancing (which on day 1 would be pretty bold if they are both actually newb scum) or if they are opposite alignments.. I would like to hear opinions on this.
I don't know why Mattchew is making connection cases based on not-yet-flipped people, but of the two I think Twelve is more likely to flip scum and I think this case sums up his D1 behaviour. Twelve's defense consists mainly of "it was a joke" and some discussion about what a bandwagon is, which seemed okay when I hadn't read his filter and only saw the case in a list of scum. Now I'm no longer convinced. + Show Spoiler [Twelve's defense] +On July 02 2012 04:55 Twelve wrote:@Mattchew haha where to start... My first post that you quote was from before the game even started, so it probably shouldn't be taken to seriously. I simply don't know anyone here and was trying to start a conversation. The fact that you see a contradiction is also puzzling I can sort of see how it could be misinterpreted that I was saying "I am all for the hatred of bandwagons" but thats not what I was saying. In fact I was saying the opposite, I was asking to be clued in so I could join a bandwagon, but this was largely a joke. Suffice to say, anything I said before the game officially started probably shouldn't concern town too much. I do take issue with your use of the word band wagon though, upon reading the thread I found both BKE and Kurumi extremely suspicious, regardless of other players posts, and made my thoughts known. BKE says alot while conveying extremely little actual information, appearing to be helpful but really just mixing the pot. Kurumi writes long winded, somewhat schizophrenic sounding poems to his co-workers that are about as informative as a fortune cookie. I don't to see a vote count or FOS: BKE FOS:Kurumi for my brain to begin forming conclusions. As for the cutesy yuck bit, he seemed pretty angry that I would vote in the vote in the voting thread without warning him, so I tried to keep things light (read: I wrote something much ruder but thought better of it and decided to kill him with niceness :D) As far as calling out casualman, I tried very hard to think of any strategic reason a town would vote for themselves and I could think of none. I had the same issue with VE voting for himself, but voted unvoted in the same post, sort of like lowering and raising a supply depot while you wait for your rax to build i guess, so I really don't have a problem with it going under the radar.
Bugs suggested this about his apeshit behaviour at night:
On July 03 2012 07:04 NoSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 06:52 marvellosity wrote: NoSmurfHere - here's a clue. You're not established. even if I'm not established he'd just call me scum. To call me godfather is stretching unnecessarily. It could only mean he already knows my alignment. I don't really see a reason why a townie would call someone godfather. Scum pushing a townie, or scum distancing himself from an actual godfather are both better explanations.
I seem to remember there being another case against Twelve which was the one that actually made him blip on my scumdar, but I cannot find it. Anyway, yeah. I'm still not completely sure about Vivax, Katina has gone awol again. Lets kill Twelve.
##unvote ##vote Twelve
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On July 04 2012 08:32 kingdedede wrote: I had a very slight town read on ShiaoPi after D1. I also don't think he fits with the others in the lurker category, he has been posting reads. I haven't analyzed his filter in a while, but I also remember him clearing some of the wifom flying around with drwiggl3s going nuts at night.
I liked Twelve for lynching after reading his filter and the cases on him. My vote's on him. I don't know why people are suddenly switching. It feels like something is being manipulated, but I don't know what. I'll think about it. Maybe while asleep shit will fall together and we can lynch scum tomorrow.
Sigh. Stupid SSB hydra/smurf. kingderpdederp is clearly me.
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