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I'm still not sure if twelve is scum, but he is most likely of opposite alignment to BKE for keeping his focus on him the entire time.
And BKE is for sure of opposite alignment to katina, cause of this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=22#429
And maybe of opposite alignment to grush, who called BKE out once:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=26#515
NSH already suggested the version where twelve AND ET are townies, so we just have to detect scum skating by.
I suggest we start by lynching BKE, the other scum players are:
Mattchew, ShiaoPi, Maju/casualman/grush.
If you wonder about Mattchew: He just complained about the ET lynch when he had his vote ticked on him. Looks like he doesn't care much about the town agenda he tries to fake.
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Maju first, grush last btw.
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On July 06 2012 00:37 Mattchew wrote:
Somebody please explain to me the reason for ET's lynch (and the final votes coming) after Mr Wiggles announced he was asking for replacement? The whole reason in my mind for the ET lynch was because he was inactive and out of character... VE were you around for all this? How about you WBG? Acro? Thoughts? Other than me using hindsight to yell at pretty much everyone, I am struggling to find a lot of people's reasons for voting ET which is strange. This all leads me to
WHY WASN'T TWELVE LYNCHED. ET WAS ABOUT TO BE REPLACED AND/OR MODKILLED. i hope we have to vig to blow his head off.
Ghost, I know your all like confirmed town and all, but can you please participate a little more
My reasoning on ET is in my filter. Someone (Vivax?) pointed out something wrong with the case on Twelve. I agreed and decided that ET was the next best option. I voted and went to cook, eat, spend time with the gf. When I came back it was the daypost in SSB mafia and Artanis was spamming me with Skype messages, so I never got to look at the thread again until this morning.
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Vivax, FFS, STOP MAKING CONNECTION CASES. For all you know BKE, Twelve, Katina and Grush are ALL townies pointing fingers at each other. We find scum, then make connections. Not the other way round.
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On July 05 2012 09:30 austinmcc wrote:
Wait what...I didn't see this last bit of stuff. Are people seriously switching of 12 to ET?
Why the surprise? You should be happy with an ET lynch. In fact you pushed against a 12 lynch in order for another lynch (I assume ET).
On another note, I feel Vivax was the person who started the idea and austin was the person that pulled it through. Based off my previous suspicions and the way the votes went down, I'd say Vivax was most likely to be scum. He pushed ET for a while but never had the confidence to put a vote in. Although he was the first to put in a vote he was pretty hesitant about it until the was more confirmation in the thread. Vivax's post on how info could be drawn makes more sense to kill twelve.
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Why do people suddenly want to kill me? How does thinking that my response to one question is insufficient supersede the last 2 days of discussion on 12, Katina, etc.
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Also, what about the response was insufficient? To me the wiggles thing was pretty strong evidence.
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On July 06 2012 01:51 Vivax wrote:I'm still not sure if twelve is scum, but he is most likely of opposite alignment to BKE for keeping his focus on him the entire time. And BKE is for sure of opposite alignment to katina, cause of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=22#429And maybe of opposite alignment to grush, who called BKE out once: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=26#515NSH already suggested the version where twelve AND ET are townies, so we just have to detect scum skating by. I suggest we start by lynching BKE, the other scum players are: Mattchew, ShiaoPi, Maju/casualman/grush. If you wonder about Mattchew: He just complained about the ET lynch when he had his vote ticked on him. Looks like he doesn't care much about the town agenda he tries to fake.
lol i voted him based 24 hours before the lynch occured and said I was away all of 4th of july... at that time it wasn't known that he would be modkilled or replaced
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Apologies, Matt, just saw other posts while looking through your filter:
On July 04 2012 12:09 Mattchew wrote:
I completely forgot adam was in this game, I have NEVER seen him play like this before. He is ALWAYS helpful, active and extremely townie as town
On July 05 2012 00:06 Mattchew wrote:
I am uncomfortable with twelves defense being so passive. He seems to not want to piss anyone off even when they call him scum and vote for him. This is continuing his play before he was a suspect, which means he is either actually in over his head newbie townie that just wants to help but doesnt know help, or scum who is afraid to vote and accuse townies.
I think we should be voting ET or Adam, because BOTH of them have been useless this game and this is EXTREMELY out of character for them.
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@Vivax: You said earlier that BM wanting to vig Adam was proof of Adam's innocence.
Now you think that that proves that Mattchew is scum?
Wut?
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@ ghost
BM wanting to vig Adam doesn't have much to do with that.
I was referring to Matt not acting as if he believed ET to be scum for real, like when he put that vote.
Anyway, I had reason to think that twelve was town cause of the reasons here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=63#1242
ET might have been modkilled, but a mislynch and a modkill would have been worse than this.
Twelve managed to make himself look really scummy, the only thing preventing his lynch was the NSH-ringleader-theory being proven wrong and the rastaban nightkill (A would-be-weird-mistake by scum).
Problem with this is that it assumes that scum acts consistently with previous actions from the members. They'd probably be better off not making sense at all. So I don't know if twelve is a newb or a good scum actor. But if they wanted to plant that 'false evidence', then why was I the first to mention that to Twelve's defense, and not twelve himself?
It will come down to lynching either him or BKE I guess. I prefer BKE.
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@Vivax: So do you think Mattchew is scum or not?
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No, the two posts I quoted before proved me wrong. He suggested an Adam lynch when there was zero momentum on one.
Not scum.
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On July 05 2012 20:03 Vivax wrote:
Ok, so twelve considered his life to be more valuable than that of somebody he believed to be town.
This is arguably not pro-town, but a lot of townies might have done the same in his spot.
Katina, can you post a list of your opinions regarding all players?
Needless to say I might use it against you, it really depends on what you write there.
You don't need to give long explanations, just guess the players' alignment.
Okay, here's that list.
I think these three people are Mafia:
BKE
causalman
Mandalor
I think these people are town:
VE
Twelve
Mattchew
NSH
Kurumi
People I'm leaning suspicous on:
Maju
Hyaach
grush
Everyone else is null.
On July 05 2012 23:12 ghost_403 wrote:
Hey Kat, what do you think about Maju?
As I just stated in the list above I find him suspicious. He doesn't really do anything. He tried to contribute day one so people wouldn't suspect him. Then he went inactive and once people started to notice he came back and started posting one liners.
On July 06 2012 02:03 MajuGarzett wrote:
Why do people suddenly want to kill me? How does thinking that my response to one question is insufficient supersede the last 2 days of discussion on 12, Katina, etc.
He seems to try and divert attention off himself. It's not to say his point isn't true but at the same time this is a pretty inactive player who is telling us to stop looking at him.
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Katina are you ignoring me for a reason?
Stop screaming names and give us reasons.
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I ignored you? Sorry if I did, I have a lot of stuff to respond to at once I might have accidently overlooked you. All the names on that list I have gave reasons for in my previous posts. So feel free to go back and look through my filter. There's a nice section on you in there.
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On July 06 2012 03:35 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 20:03 Vivax wrote:
Ok, so twelve considered his life to be more valuable than that of somebody he believed to be town.
This is arguably not pro-town, but a lot of townies might have done the same in his spot.
Katina, can you post a list of your opinions regarding all players?
Needless to say I might use it against you, it really depends on what you write there.
You don't need to give long explanations, just guess the players' alignment. Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 23:12 ghost_403 wrote:
Hey Kat, what do you think about Maju? As I just stated in the list above I find him suspicious. He doesn't really do anything. He tried to contribute day one so people wouldn't suspect him. Then he went inactive and once people started to notice he came back and started posting one liners. Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 02:03 MajuGarzett wrote:
Why do people suddenly want to kill me? How does thinking that my response to one question is insufficient supersede the last 2 days of discussion on 12, Katina, etc. He seems to try and divert attention off himself. It's not to say his point isn't true but at the same time this is a pretty inactive player who is telling us to stop looking at him.
I'm not saying stop looking at me, I just think that if people want to kill me they should give a proper explanation.
On July 05 2012 04:43 Vivax wrote:
Cause Twelve suspected Bugs, who wasn't under pressure at the time, and rastaban. The guy who got killed by mafia.
I wouldn't understand the actions from a scum point of view.
There's a lot of talk about ET already. Take the way he tries to influence bandwagons without reads.
Vivax, you list these reasons why 12 is town but why wouldn't a scum want to draw suspicion to townies and to try to divide the vote to inhibit progress?
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Katina, if I were you I'd go through Adam's filter and check the opinion on the players again. There's some stuff speaking against the list you've made.
Vivax, you list these reasons why 12 is town but why wouldn't a scum want to draw suspicion to townies and to try to divide the vote to inhibit progress?
Well, he didn't draw suspicion, his 'case' with a NSH-ringleader was a giant blooper and noone believed it, additionally, noone had any interest in lynching rastaban or NSH
Then rasta got killed, proving Twelve's theory to be incorrect in both points. Why kill someone you lose cred for?
And as already said, if that weird post was intentional, then Twelve would have used it to his defense earlier.
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On July 06 2012 02:02 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:30 austinmcc wrote:
Wait what...I didn't see this last bit of stuff. Are people seriously switching of 12 to ET? Why the surprise? You should be happy with an ET lynch. In fact you pushed against a 12 lynch in order for another lynch (I assume ET). On another note, I feel Vivax was the person who started the idea and austin was the person that pulled it through. Based off my previous suspicions and the way the votes went down, I'd say Vivax was most likely to be scum. He pushed ET for a while but never had the confidence to put a vote in. Although he was the first to put in a vote he was pretty hesitant about it until the was more confirmation in the thread. Vivax's post on how info could be drawn makes more sense to kill twelve.
I should be happy with an ET lynch, yes. Actually, hold up. In the interest of consolidating posts, I'm going to combine this with another I was making. I pushed against a 12 lynch during the day, and pushed for ET. Thought thread sentiment was heavily toward lynching 12.
All times KST/TL time
1:30 - I vote ET. Reasoning in thread - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 01:30 austinmcc wrote:Post written quickly, may be illegible. So many people look a little scummy, but right now I'm on board with ET as an option. Not reading thread - So far, hasn't made the promised posts - Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 23:01 EchelonTee wrote:
Going to make a few posts on who I think is scum, following. Plus, after his whole exchange with drwiggl3s, who he concludes just has poor logic, ET NEVER steps in to defend drwiggl3s. I know at least a few people dropped in to say they read wiggl3s as bad town. ET never came back to do so, despite being around at points throughout the night.
1:30 - 4:14 - ShiaoPi unvotes Hyaach. Grush unvotes Vivax, votes 12. BKE, Ghost, Mandalor vote 12.
ShiaoPi reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 02:21 ShiaoPi wrote:
Some thoughts after I caught up,
@hyaach:
BKE also asked you, and you did respond with that quote of "you have to ask to get a case". Guess you don't like him either.
Reading through your recent posts I want to thank you for (finally) contributing thoughts which make sense and generally stepping up your activity. You are off my suspectlist for now.
##unvote
@Katina:
I do not like wasting a lynch on a troll. Better to shoot him or blow him up. Good to see you unlurking and contributing. I'll probably reread mandalor now.
@Twelve:
Same reasoning about casualman as with Katina, Is he your strongest scumread right now?
Regarding ET, I did not play any games with him so I don't know about his meta, but it is unsettling that he vanished after being one of the more active persons beforehand. Can somebody link me some games of him?
Grush Reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 02:21 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 00:08 Twelve wrote:
I agree with Kitana and the causualman lynch.
##vote: casualman YES LETS SHEEP A USELESS PLAYER THAT WILL GIVE US TOWNIES NO INFO AND WASTE A WHOLE CYCLE. U CRAY CRAY. oR MAYBE YOUR SCUM. HMM HMMHMHMHMHMMHMHMHMHMHMHMHMHMMHMHMHMHMHMHMHMH All you have to think, and scum will fall! ##Unvote: Vivax##Vote: Twelve
BKE reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 03:07 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Well Twelve my question hasn't been answered directly, and you haven't disproved my casual is TL troll theory so...
##Unvote
##Vote: Twelve
Ghost reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 03:29 ghost_403 wrote:
I find the gap in him posting his Foxtrotter vote and him expalining his Foxtrotter vote... disconcerting. If missing the deadline really was his main concern there, why wouldn't you immediately post after the flip "Well, shit. I know him IRL, and he posted scummy so I voted for him, lol, my bad"? Instead, he waits for people to make a big deal about it. His actions there were of the "too scummy to be scum" variety, but maybe he's just bad scum?
That and all the stuff Acro said.
##vote twelve
I want to hear why he thinks we should be lynching casualman. His filter doesn't really give a good reason for it.
I want to hear Katina's thoughts on Twelve.
Also, where's Majujuju been? He dropped in, voted 12 and has been gone ever since.
Mandalor reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 05:09 Mandalor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 04:24 ShiaoPi wrote:
Twelve who is your topscumread? Really casualman?
oh and Mandalor, why ninjavote? Ninjavote? I explained I'd go for either Katina or Twelve. Doesn't look like Katina will gain enough votes so I went for Twelve.
6:58 - Wiggles posts that ET has asked to withdraw - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 06:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
EchelonTee has asked to withdraw from the game. I am currently looking for a replacement. If you know one, please let them know of the opening.
7:13 - Vivax unvotes ET, votes 12 again - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 07:12 Vivax wrote:
ET's replacement should be bombarded with accusations once and if one joins.
For now back to Twelve since I don't wanna risk ET getting lynched when he could be modkilled.
I really hope he doesn't flip town.
8:52 - Voting summary in vote thread has Twelve with 10 votes, ET with 4 votes.
***This is why I was surprised BKE, to answer your question in all of this. Twelve had 10 out of 17 total votes. Next highest vote getter was ET with 4. ET had asked for a replacement, which explains his absence. Did not expect a swap to ET given that with the replacement post, he basically looked better than before. Still felt Twelve was town, however. See my filter for posts asking Twelve to explain his conspiracy theory better, asking people how they dealt with some of Twelve's posts and maintained scum reads. We have just over an hour until lynch, thread sentiment against Twelve, expecting him to get lynched***
9:21 - Vivax unvotes 12, votes ET - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 09:21 Vivax wrote:
-.-
Ok, I'll vote ET again. If anyone believes in twelve, switch too.
Need 4 votes I think.
9:24 - 9:40 - Kurumi questions 12 in thread. Unvotes 12, votes ET - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 09:24 Kurumi wrote:
Number person, is the echo-device a bad detective? On July 05 2012 09:29 Kurumi wrote:
Please, number person, do a scout promise that you are a good detective and getting rid of the echo-device benefits us. On July 05 2012 09:30 Twelve wrote:
scouts honor? scross my heart hope to die? On July 05 2012 09:32 Twelve wrote:
EBWOP
Scouts honor! Pinky swear etc, I'm a good detective Kurumi! dont lynch me! On July 05 2012 09:34 Kurumi wrote:
Please imagine you have an ability to flip someone right here, right now. Who would it be? On July 05 2012 09:34 Twelve wrote:
BroodKingExe On July 05 2012 09:39 Twelve wrote:I actually think Katina is town, if he were scum he would likely just let me get lynched, but he actually sticks up for me  On July 05 2012 09:40 Kurumi wrote:
I like your choice. I am moving my vote now. Please reread the thread/get some guides running fast so we can stop discussing you as a scum candidate. I believe in your newbieness.
***It's during this exchange that I make that post you referenced. I'm surprised that people are switching to ET. We're like 30 minutes to lynch to at this point. People have been on 12 all day. Wiggles told us hours ago that ET asked for a replacement. Vivax was on ET, then 12, then ET again close to deadline. That swap, and Kurumi popping up to type real sentences, confuse me.***
9:56 - 9:58 - At 9:56, NSH unvotes 12 and votes ET. Reasoning given at 9:58 - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 09:58 NoSmurfHere wrote:
I've switched my vote upon seeing the voter list and that Acro switched as well.
I trust his judgment as I've been afk. Reading now
***Wiggles posts his final vote count at 9:57. I've got normal and voting threads up, but was mainly watching the normal thread to see if anyone would swap. Did not see NSH's post in normal thread until 9:58, 2 minutes after his swap and 1 minute after Wiggles' final vote count. I get worried about the swaps to ET, start feeling wrong about it. Try to unvote ET and vote 12, but it's too late. I post at 10:00, final vote count at 9:57***
So, my surprise is the number of late vote swaps. NSH's reasoning for his swap. The timing at the very end. Vivax's hopping back and forth. The fact that thread sentiment genuinely seemed to be against 12 most of the cycle, with the same counterpoints coming back - his weird conspiracy theory mainly. Yet votes swap to ET after we know he's going to be modkilled or replaced. I almost swapped off him to Katina just because I figured ET was a wasted vote at that point, but stayed around because I figured Katina wasn't getting lynched. Shouldn't have done so. But my thought process is "ET replaced/modkilled, better move to someone else," whereas others had the opposite thought, and moved TO ET after knowing he was going to be replaced/modkilled.
Now hold up, because I want to check something and make another, related, post (Not trying to spam, but this was general timeline and the next is focused)
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On July 05 2012 20:03 Vivax wrote:
Ok, so twelve considered his life to be more valuable than that of somebody he believed to be town.
This is arguably not pro-town, but a lot of townies might have done the same in his spot.
Katina, can you post a list of your opinions regarding all players?
Needless to say I might use it against you, it really depends on what you write there.
You don't need to give long explanations, just guess the players' alignment.
Woa Woa, thats not what i said. I said my life (a known town to me) should not be wasted on a lynch. As a green towny, my jobs include not getting lynched and helping the discussion towards lynching mafia. If the vote comes down between myself and another unknown(i really had no read on ET one way or the other), I have to vote in the interest of town, which in this case is the unknown.
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EPT
