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On June 18 2012 00:44 FourFace wrote:AARrrRHhHH!! There's just nothing to talk about until the night ends. Talismania gave his 2 cents regarding the setup and was the first and only one to come out of the closet regarding King, Monarchist Activist, killing the Monarchist Activist and possible setup. My question is why doesn't the opening game post have anything to do with this medieval shiz?
Day started. Anything to say?
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On June 17 2012 07:37 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 07:12 talismania wrote:
I have some setup info in my role PM that I can't figure out why I shouldn't share:
(1) There is a "King"
(2) There is a "Monarchist Activist"
(3) Several others of you know there's a Monarchist Activist, and some of you want to kill him. (so there's a wincon involving the death of the Monarchist Activist I'm guessing).
Anyone have anything else?
______
My random setup speculation:
with only 15 players one mafia team of 3 + a SK role is possible but not terribly likely. Too quick of a lylo. I think it's more likely that there's 2 anti-town teams of 2 players each with one kp apiece. Then at least 2 different kinds of third parties, and at least 5-6 town players. Probably worth sharing, thanks for the info. I assume this is some sort of kingmaker + assassins scenario, in which case we need to be a bit careful. It would be pretty shit to have a situation where we lose if person x dies 
Took me a while, but I found this post again. Can you explain a bit more what you meant with this?
My role pm pretty much rules the "everybody loses if person X dies" scenario out, but the rest resonates well with my role pm.
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I don't know who I want to kill yet. So far I have a whole clump of scummy people and a number of people I think are town. That number is currently stuck at 1 1/2.
@Deconduo: how does your setup make sense with people, including myself, having a regular town win condition?
@Talismania: I guess you are claiming you did not get hit and have not been made king?
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On June 18 2012 06:26 Nisani201 wrote:
I'm on my phone so i can't do much right now, but i don't believe talis's claim. Makes it look like he's contributing when really he's just "forcing" everyone else to contribute for him.
I agree. However, I want to see how he uses his claimed power. If he doesn't use it, I vote we lynch the crap out of him.
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On June 18 2012 06:35 FourFace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 06:34 Acrofales wrote:On June 18 2012 06:26 Nisani201 wrote:
I'm on my phone so i can't do much right now, but i don't believe talis's claim. Makes it look like he's contributing when really he's just "forcing" everyone else to contribute for him. I agree. However, I want to see how he uses his claimed power. If he doesn't use it, I vote we lynch the crap out of him. Why?! His intentions seem noble. Can you think of anything else that's incriminating him?
Woah there cowboy, don't get ahead of yourself. I actually believe Talismania and think he's a (townie) dayvig.
However, hypothetical: Talismania is scum and claims dayvig. He "forces" townies to make cases, most probably on each other, early in D1. He then backpedals with an "I was lying, and am not a dayvig". He then claims he got everybody to contribute with this lie.
I liked HiroPro's play: it served its purpose and got people posting during the night. On D1 town people should be active and posting their thoughts in any case, so a false dayvig claim serves no real town purpose. A truthful dayvig claim seems fine, though. So as long as he ends up shooting someone he'll stay on my list of townish people.
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I am not a big fan of LaL policy lynching (or policy lynching in general (YES, ACE, I SAID THAT).
There is a motive behind lying, always, and I have seen too many situations in which a townie lying was a good thing for town. However, the motive needs to be evaluated. In this case, a false dayvig claim false on the scum side of the line.
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On June 18 2012 06:44 FourFace wrote:
Well how would you have done that anyway.. You wouldn't have known who tried to join in the first place (probably no one, evidently) but how exactly would you have kept the illusion of House Chezinu alive without any sort of palpable change like a mason circle or host confirmation or anything? I'm not saying you weren't scumhunting.. I'm not even saying you're anti-town. I just think you lied to us at least twice, that's all.
Stop trying to derail discussion. This is pointless hypothetical and IF you want to discuss it, save it for postgame. I'd rather hear what HiroPro and you have to say about the current game situation!
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On June 18 2012 06:56 KharadBanar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote:On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote:
Some other points to make:
If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have.
I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win. EBWOPIf someone other than the King knows what powers the King gets, and feels safe about claiming so (I guess there's people who want to kill the Monarchist Activist too), that would be nice to know; just don't reveal who it actually is so our King doesn't die straight away.
My role pm explicitly mentions people who want to harm the MA, so I definitely don't want him to claim. You also brought up a good point: we don't have enough info on how this setup works, so the king not claiming is probably the safer option. At the very least until D2. If the king changes, then the D1 king should claim his role and abilities on D2.
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On June 18 2012 07:02 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote:On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote:
Some other points to make:
If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have.
I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win. How do we know that the king isn't a dictator who wants to murder us all and that the assassins are the good guys?
I thought about that, but then my role pm doesn't make sense.
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On June 18 2012 07:06 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 07:03 Acrofales wrote:On June 18 2012 07:02 Drazerk wrote:On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote:On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote:
Some other points to make:
If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have.
I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win. How do we know that the king isn't a dictator who wants to murder us all and that the assassins are the good guys? I thought about that, but then my role pm doesn't make sense. Na it can still make sense
How did you read my role pm?
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On June 18 2012 07:19 Nisani201 wrote:
I think the source of a lot of confusion surrounding the monarch stuff is because talis/acro aren't making good distinctions between what is fact (established in the role pm) and what is speculation. Could you two be more specific?
I can't disclose more than I have said already without claiming in full, which is not something I think would be a good idea at this point in the game. I should be ready to claim in full tomorrow.
All I know is that there is a monarchist activist, who can make a king.
The way my role pm is worded, it seems very likely that the MA can make a king multiple times throughout the game.
The way my role pm is worded, it seems unlikely that the MA is scum. However, it is a bastard game, so I might be getting trolled in this. It just seems unlikely.
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Ah yeah, indeed. I also know that there are people who wish the MA harm.
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Yay. Lots of content while I was asleep!
There's some things I like, and some things I don't. Among the primary things I don't like is DropBear. I think he's scum masquerading as a cute koala. I hinted at the fact that I didn't much like this koala's filter during the night, and there's something equally off with his day posting.
What it specifically looks like, is that he's blending.
+ Show Spoiler [My spidey senses started tingling] +On June 17 2012 04:00 DropBear wrote:And I said baby... doo doo... it's 3am I must be lonely... doo doo Hello all! I am fantabulously confused already. HiroPro I regretfully must pass on your offer for the time being, as you speak of fellow board members who remain undisclosed and speak of supporting members at lynch time regardless of their suspected alignment. Please don't be offended, it's not that I don't trust you, it's that I don't trust you YET. Plus it's hard to trust your associates when I don't know who they are Just out of interest, what did your promotion of VisceraEyes achieve? Was he originally part of your group or did he join up after your recruitment announcement?
This was DropBear's first post in the game. Specifically note the part that I bolded red. This is someone who is trying to fly under the radar. He then continues with two questions about VE, which was the only part of the Chezinu deal we could be sure of was trolling during the night (VE isn't and never was in the game). This whole post reads to me like:
+ Show Spoiler [ jedi scum] +
So... we continue through his filter. There's more questions like the VE one:
On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote:
Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead.
Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her?
This seems to be just not paying attention to the thread. As I said at night, HiroPro never actually mentioned the king. This post also came after I said that my role pm said the MA is a kingmaker. I am not sure what to think of this, but town usually reads the thread, and individual posts better than scum: they are scumhunting, while scum (thinks they) can get away with browsing the thread and commenting on trending topics.
Talking about trending topics:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 18 2012 09:54 DropBear wrote:
I want KB dead. Let's geddim. He is running scared and trying desperately to appear helpful but not actually saying anything. On June 18 2012 09:57 DropBear wrote:
Can you shoot KB talismania? On June 18 2012 10:23 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 10:19 Nisani201 wrote:
I think the case is horrible. Could be a bus, not sure because I'm null on KB at the moment.
He takes out a lot of context from KB's actions, and he doesn't point out why points 1&2 are scummy. Context? Isn't context everything? Wtf does this even mean? Alright talismania how bout you shoot Nisani instead? We can hang KB and shoot Nisani.
I have not yet seen DropBear state why he thinks KB is scum, but he's incredibly trigger happy! He makes it clear that he wants KB DEAD. Why exactly? Well, that nobody can know from reading his filter. He has this post:
+ Show Spoiler [A koala's suspicions] +On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote:Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off. Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote:
If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that.
By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing? You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB?
This post is nice, and it came at a time when we were just figuring out the implications of KB (and Nisani)'s alliance deal with Chezinu. I don't mind this post at all, but this is not a reason to want KB dead.
I want to kill scum, and I want to reason out why someone is scum. There is no reasoning in our vicious koala's posts. There is a light accusation, which at daybreak turned into "MURDER HIM". This just doesn't sit well with me, especially as I am leaning increasingly towards some third party role for KB, which may or may not be anti-town, but is probably not (pure) scum.
The reason people just want to whip up a bandwagon (or direct a dayvig) without proper reasoning is usually because they're scum and the target is not on their scumteam. They don't get caught in awkward reasoning in actual cases after the fact, but can point to how they wanted that person dead for easy town credit if he flips red or 3P.
All of this together points to DropBear being a scum in koala clothing.
Other comments
Oh, and for the record, this post would've been made regardless of Talismania and he can go stuff his "oooh, people are making good cases so will not get shot" up his ass. I have made decent cases as scum too and it is really easy in a game like this where there's quite probably 3rd party floating around too. Talsimania should focus less on his dayvig plan and more on scumhunting. When he finds scum (*hint* it's dropbear) he should shoot, not wait for someone too be too busy or lazy to post a case.
Drazerk: I don't like you, you're trolling and I don't trust you at all. You're playing like in Holy Roman (without the rhyming restriction) and if I were a dayvig I would probably shoot you just to get rid of that nagging doubt in the back of my head.
KB: just because I don't like DropBear doesn't mean I like you. Your posts are terrible and I don't think you're town. I would be onboard a KB lynch if DropBear gets shot.
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EBWOP: awww, crap. My jedi scum picture didn't get linked properly  And... apparently quickmeme does something nasty to images, so you can't download them. Fixed using a different meme generator! 
+ Show Spoiler [fixed jedi scum] +
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On June 18 2012 20:03 DropBear wrote:
Lol Acrofales that first post started off with the lyrics from the matchbox 20 song 3am because it was 3am my time. I was saying that I don't want to join house Chezinu, whats the problem there? I very specifically took a stance against joining, how is that blending?
No shit Hiro never mentioned the King. I thought his recruitment drive thing was cos he was allied with the king and was asking him if it was true.
You don't mind my post as to saying why I find KB suspicious, but then you don't think its a reason to want him dead? That's a paradox. You can't like my reasoning and then tell me its bad reasoning. I want KB dead and I stand by that. You have omitted several of my posts that also indicate that I don't trust him.
This case seems poorly thought out man. I wouldn't go so far as to say manufactured, but poorly thought out.
If you don't think KB is town, why would you not want him dead as well?
I still don't understand how you ever got a link between Hiro and the king... it makes no sense. You didn't "very specifically take a stance against Chezinu", you said you didn't trust them "yet", which is about the same as saying nothing. Drazerk took a stance against Chezinu. I took a stance against Chezinu. Talismania made his opinon on Chezinu clear (saying he wanted more info before considering them). Nisani and KB also had a clear stance on Chezinu. You just blended, making a post that can be interpreted either way.
The same is your early pressure on KB: at the time it was good. It was a correctly voiced suspicion of some suspicious shit. However, he answered your suspicions. Your only real post about KB since then was "I want him dead". I guess when you say you've posted "other stuff on KB" indicating you don't trust him, you are referring to this:
On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote:Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off. On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote:
If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that.
By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason. This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing? You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB? Welp, there goes my "ignoring The HOUSE" stance, because I want to explain myself: I bother with the extended spiel about giving info to scum because I do not think everyone in this thread had realised this by then. The scum team would presumably be very interested in getting one (exactly one) of their players into The HOUSE so they can use him as an information link between all the players in The HOUSE and their own team. We (the town players) are all on our own until we join The HOUSE, but when we join The HOUSE to have a side conversation in there, that one scum player will be very happy to listen in on that and pass it on to his team mates. This is why I don't think that joining The HOUSE is advantageous to us. Finally, if we look at the extreme case where everyone but the anti-HOUSE players joins The HOUSE, we have a very weird situation where (I think) the Board of The HOUSE knows everyone's alignment but everyone else doesn't, and I have no idea who would profit from that but I don't want to try it out. I just wanted to "crap on about how they can't tell everything" because I thought about the issue and wanted to share my thoughts about it with you, which doesn't strike me as a very bad thing to do. Oh wow words words words this makes me think something is off about you even more. If we have any blues please kill/check him tonight. + Show Spoiler [Other stuff] +
Talismani, I don't have this information so are this king and monarchist activist person you speak of related or unrelated? My wikipedia search of what a monarchist activist is says that they support the crown, but may also support someone who has been deposed or rightfully belongs there
Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead.
Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her?
You still haven't actually given a reason to kill him. Which comes together with my final answer to you: why do you think KharadBanar is scum. I think he's not town. I am not yet sure he's anti-town and don't find his behaviour actually scummy... it seems far more likely that he's a survivor or some other non-helpful third party. My priorities are on finding and killing scum. So far, you're still my favourite target and this defense of yours is unconvincing. I don't mind being wrong, though. How about you tell me why KB is scum and should die.
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On June 18 2012 23:29 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 19:25 Acrofales wrote:
as I am leaning increasingly towards some third party role for KB, which may or may not be anti-town, but is probably not (pure) scum.
In this sort of game, I want to kill 3rd party even more, given that to win we have to remove all anti-town elements, which 3rd party/SK definitely falls under. For all we know, there might not even be "pure" scum in this game.
Well, SK is pure scum. You could see him as a second scum faction with only 1 person on it 
However, I doubt this game has a SK: he would've shot N0 and nobody has claimed being hit. What I meant with not-town, but not anti-town 3rd party was more like a survivor. Their wincon can line up with town's quite well and I wouldn't consider them anti-town off the bat. What redeams KB slightly for his N0 dodgyness is this post:
On June 18 2012 06:52 KharadBanar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 06:43 Nisani201 wrote:
Some other points to make:
If you are the "king" then you should claim that you are, as well as the powers you have.
I also don't like the case on Maju I don't think a King claim would be in order right now, at least if he hasn't got some crazy power like being bulletproof. We probably have Assassins in this setup who are just waiting to find out who he is so they can kill him and win.
This is a very good point, and if the setup speculation that people are out to kill the king is right, then it is a good thing to point out. I don't think it's enough, but if his wincon is not aligned with town, and instead he has to kill the king and/or MA, I don't think he would've made this post when he made it.
That leaves scum, but I don't see a scum motive in his N0 play. There is no real reason for scum to take any kind of active PUBIC stance regarding House Chezinu until a lot more is known about it. There's plenty of reason to try to infiltrate it, but that was not what KB was doing. I will have to relook over his filter, because there's something that is off about his posting (and I want to compare his play here to the Newbie game we were in together), but the cases against him so far don't convince me that he is scum. That leaves some strange 3rd party, and we need more setup info to speculate on whether killing 3rd parties is useful.
Other than that, I agree he is very dodgy. His case on Hyaach is feeble: it's basically taking the case against him and saying "look, this guy also played terribly!"
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On June 18 2012 23:55 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 21:34 strongandbig wrote:On June 18 2012 15:06 Drazerk wrote:
S+B how is that a real case?
you're using evidence we know now to incriminate past beliefs which seems pretty questionable to me but i'll give you a break as my play style leads to myself being an easy band wagon the same way kenpachi is.
Also with Talismania forcing everyone to make a case except himself its bad cases like this that need to be looked at and questioned as I just got a huge third party vibe from S+B who just wants to survive. The only new information we gained is that you are wrong about the cult thing. That's not at all the center point of my case. Trying to shut down discussion is like the main mafia agenda bro. You were trying to get people to stop talking about chezinu before we had any idea whether it was pro town or not. And seriously? You're saying you're like Kenpachi? Drazerk, you're not kenpachi. He gets away with posting trolling and content less one-liners because it's all he ever does and he doesn't give a fuck about the game most of the time. You are capable of being much more helpful than that. Plus, you actually care about the game. What I see from you this game is a pattern of trying to avoid being the subject of scrutiny. "I'm going to die soon" "I'm going on a tunnelling spree against this chezinu thing trololo" "I'm an easy bandwagon because I play like kenpachi" "Ignore Me!!!" If you really are town, then stop trying to play like Kenpachi. Your response to my case makes me think you are even scummier, with the "I'm an easy bandwagon like kenpachi" thing, but at least the post itself was more than one line and contained some actual reasoning. Post more like that, except not scummy. and as for your third party accusation, that also fits into the pattern of slipperiness. Just because in the last game there was a lot of third party, it makes "your case is bad, you must be third party" an easy thing to throw around. The fact that you're trying to switch focus from your alignment to mine does not make you look any better. You have a quote from me in your signature -Town fuck up. Scum do not. Scum WANT discussion. They are not going to be wishy washy they have their game plan worked out from the first hour and that is how they are going to play. I am going to die soon? - 5th party against me and a day vigi I have no intention of pleasing. People who ignore me burn or it you should know this by now. 1 line posts are perfectly fine and probably more of a town behaviour as it means quick irrational posting rather than carefully laid out plans. This is a bastard game I am going to throw out every possibility there is And yes I still think you are third party for submitted to tali's demands
Really Drazerk. YOU are saying this of all people? Do you really want me to link to Holy Roman, with your infinite amount of senseless one-liners? Maybe you fucked up in there somewhere, but you managed to make yourself so inoccuous that you flew under the radar until it was basically too late.
Your strategy was basically exactly the same that game as it has been so far this game... and you're using that strategy as an example of pro-town play?! The mind boggles.
PS. I don't know what your town meta looks like...
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Why do you think S&B is 3P?
Why is BioSC scum?
Why do you think FF made a case on ET if they are scum together? Early D1 bus? Or are you trying to say either one could be scum and you don't know which?
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Btw, you're playing increasingly to your Holy Roman meta. You really just threw out a bunch of names without actually reasoning about ANY of them. You playing into your Holy Roman meta = me thinking you're scum.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif)
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