Pick Your Poison Mafia

On May 30 2012 20:06 Radfield wrote:
K, I'm skipping over the last page or so because I don't have much time, and want to get this said. My apologies if this has already been said.

Roleblocker is the pick we need to send in for mafia. The reason for this is the role we absolutely do not want a combination of framer/gf + cop/tracker. That gives us the least possible advantage in this game. By us publicly sending in the roleblocker, it basically forces mafia to give us 2 of vigilante/medic/innocent child. If they decide to give us either cop or tracker that is even better, as we will KNOW that they only have a roleblocker and cannot throw off our investigations.

Roleblocker vs 2 of vigilante/medic/innocent child is a fantastic place to be. If they happen to give us tracker or cop that is even better. It is far far better than any other scenario.

---

Role and Alignment being hidden we want to save until lylo, as at that point it doesn't hurt us. Likewise when only 1 mafia is left.

Voting being Secret we want to save until we have an obvious lynch.

Lynch locks once majority hits does not hurt us at all, and is our freebee.

Mayoral election is our second freebee.

Day cycle shortened to 24 hours we'll use in the lategame, as discussion is slow then anyways.

I'm out of time, more later.

On May 30 2012 21:41 Radfield wrote:
Roleblocker is by far the most useless role for mafia in this setup. I will gladly explain this in further detail once the roles are picked, but it should be obvious to anyone looking at the setup and considering mafia options. I don't want to say any more than that right now, but there is really no contest.

Consider this though, if we KNOW we have sent in roleblocker(ie everyone sends that in) then we KNOW we can trust every single check via tracker or cop. That is incredibly important. Given that, mafia will have to give us some combination of the other three roles, which is an absolutely fantastic setup for town. (Innocent child cannot be roleblocked, medic never needs to claim, vig never needs to claim until second shot when he cant be roleblocked anymore).

Please send in roleblocker.

On May 31 2012 04:12 Radfield wrote:
Actually, I probably won't. I have limited time this game, and am going to focus it on scumhunting. If I'm still alive Day 2 I will start responding to criticisms.

On June 01 2012 01:13 Radfield wrote:
I agree with that assessment prplhz, though I will say that I'm pretty sure I have seen bugs play this way before as town. I'm a Cop You Idiot comes to mind, but I'll have to double check.

Also, bugs standard scum play is NOT generally ambivalence and coasting. I would say he's one of the most active scum players on the forum.

On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:
Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW

Choose Godfather, I did.

---

Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.

---

Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about.

On June 01 2012 04:15 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi The difference is that roleblocker only works if he actually hits a blue, framer works regardless of whether he hits a blue. If we get a tracker check, then we're going to argue about it now because there are people who will say "he was framed". Before, we could just trust it if we trusted the guy it came from and he wouldn't claim if he wasn't willing to put his life on the line anyway.

Radfield explained why medic is a good role, not only can he save townies, he will also discourage scum from shooting into townies that the medic might protect and one successful protect would extend the game by a full day which is awesome. Vigilante is a role that can pretty much confirm itself just be breadcrumbing his shot before he shoots and that's really good too, especially if he actually hits scum.

You need to calm down and take deep breath. Roleblocker isn't a horrible role, it's actually the best role. Even if it was horrible then why on earth would Radfield put himself out there like that to push scum agenda like you claim he is doing.

What do you think about wherebugsgo, Navilus and risk.nuke?

On June 01 2012 04:25 prplhz wrote:

So you are saying that we can trust all checks even with framer around because it only has a slim chance of working? Framer is a role that works even when they don't use it successfully, just like medic.

Your second argument "if they get two blue reads in a day" then they can neutralize them both with roleblocker. What are the odds of them getting two correct bluereads in one day? Even if they did, without roleblocker they could just kill one and then kill the other.

On June 01 2012 22:15 Zephirdd wrote:
Holy shit noone will ever get my name right, will ya?

anyways, let me explain my thought proccess. Day0 people apparently forgot to vote or were forgetting the obvious; its very common for a player to forget stuff and then be reminded when seeing it on the thread. Heck, there were games I would only realize I hadnt voted when someone called me out. What is the problem with trying to remind the same?

second, I changed opinions far too quickly. Basically, I was convinced by Radfield's arguments on the RB. Then Kurumi convinced me about Rad being scum. Then after the day, and wbg pointing out Kurumi's meta, I had to rethink things and decided Rad was right; if I could, I'd switch back to RB pick. I have to look at L though.

but hey, yknow what is bad? Risk's post is bad. Points fingers at three people without saying anything.

ps. Posting from phone is a pain @_@

On June 02 2012 04:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
I've been asleep. (and I just lost what I was posting from my phone)

I agree with Radfield that Kurumi's aggressiveness based on that singular point is strange and makes him less likely to be mafia. However the meta still agrees, even with the game Kurumi linked. In the beginning of Space Station you can see the tone of Kurumi's posts is much more laid back than here.

I disagree with a Sbrubbles lynch for now because I think the way he has discussed things is not scummy.
His tone seems more like a townie talking about setup mechanics than a scum.

Navillus looks pretty bad, given that he seems to have no opinions of his own regarding the lynch. Toad I'm a bit unsure of as he's posted more.

Of these players I think a Navillus lynch might be the most productive and likely to flip a scum.

##unvote

##vote Navillus

On June 02 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
Read his town games, read his day0 play this game, first time scum mostly try not to stick out and he absolutely knows how to do this better than this. He is sticking out very much with his two measly posts and I very much doubt any scum would think that this would ever be enough not to get lynched. I expect him to get back and tell us why he's been playing so horribly on day1 but I don't think that he's scum right now.

I'm not saying he's new, I'm saying he's first time scum.

On June 01 2012 10:36 Zephirdd wrote:
Hm, looking at Holy Roman, Kurumi seems to be much more careful on this game(ie. serious). Like wbg said, (if we take Holy Roman as Kurumi's town meta) his town meta is to troll. Anyone has more town games from Kurumi to analyze, and possibly scum games as well?

I also retract any "accusation" I may have had about Radfield. He seems clean enough for me atm.

Why are you guys not posting more? I hate lynching lurkers.

On June 02 2012 06:35 Zephirdd wrote:


I hate people not playing. Lynching Lurkers is lynching people for not playing.

Kurumi, what happened with your "I still think Radfield is scum"? Did you, *ahem* CHANGE YOUR OPINION? If so, then you have no reason to vote me. If not, then why are you NOT pushing him? Saw an easy candidate and jumped on him?

On June 02 2012 07:01 Radfield wrote:



That's actually a pretty decent point.

After filtering him, Sbrubbles looks alright for the moment. Navilus I haven't looked at.

On June 02 2012 07:24 risk.nuke wrote:
I've been away. I apologise for those of you who care about apologies. My time have disappeared before me and I haven't put down almost anything into this game YET.

Vote: Zephirdd

And hey, wbg thinks I'm scum so you should consider me confirmed townie.

On June 02 2012 20:35 Toadesstern wrote:

I had to stay up until 1am anyways for the deadline of the game I'm hosting and the deadline in greymists game. Not to mention I usually stay up until 3am reading Game of thrones anyways on weekends because I'm happy I don't have to wake up on 8am.

About the votes getting track so fast:
1) It was a pain in the ass to get people vote someone. I'd definitely not say it went fast lol
2) What about the secret vote mafia had? We had 8 people on the guy, we had a secret vote that was, from the looks of it not used or invisible. The point here is that mafia did not have to secure a lynch given we only needed 6 to lynch instead of 7 and them having a secret vote. That makes analysis a bit tricky because mafia could as well have just put the secret vote on that guy and not voted him.

That's all I've got to say for now. There's 2 people who are looking awful right now and I'm going to say something about them once I'm back.

On June 02 2012 22:29 prplhz wrote:
I don't think it's all that likely that there is a vigilante, but if there is and he shoots me on Kurumi's "case" then he needs to get his brain examined. I don't know why Kurumi is acting like it's 100% sure that there is a vigilante but it could just be a crazy Kurumi plan.

On June 02 2012 23:30 prplhz wrote:

Ah, so you don't have a gun then.

On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2 :p

On June 03 2012 08:05 prplhz wrote:
@talismania Because if town doesn't know what role that scum has then it very much opens up the possibility of scum arguing for whatever role that benefits them (and townies would argue along with them). You got a check? Well watch 1 mafia and 2 townies say that scum probably got framer and framed whoever. I've said this several times already. Also, if we decided that it was more important that scum didn't know what role they got than that we elected some specific role then we would kill a lot of discussion on day0.

@Kurumi

Dearest Kurumi,

No I'm not afraid that I'll get shot tonight. I don't think it's all that likely that there is a vigilante and I think it's very unlikely that he would listen to your "case". And I didn't ask why you wanted to shoot me 'cause you actually already wrote your "case" in this thread, I even responded to it! Don't know what's so interesting about me not asking for something you already gave me, but in case you have more then just go ahead and post it.

---

If there really is a vigilante he should shoot risk.nuke tonight 'cause that guy doesn't give a shit about this game. He's acted nonchalantly like this in other games, but I've never seen him not actually care about a game. In Death Factory Mafia 2 he kind of did something like this but he was blue and had a powerful role so he didn't need to get all analytic, in Space Station he was also a bit like this in thread but he was very much invested in the game in PMs. Even if he is town then you'd just be taking out the god damn trash.

I'm exceedingly tipsy and I can't think all too straight right now. If anybody thinks I should vote something for poison then tell me. Otherwise, I'm going to vote for majority+1 'cause I think I remember agreeing with myself on this yesterday.

On June 03 2012 08:18 Radfield wrote:
Oh yeah, it's really important obviously that if someone gets roleblocked they should announce it immediately, as it gives our potential tracker more info. Not to mention letting us know the mafia setup.

Medics, cops and trackers can do their own thing. Innocent child obviously does nothing until it is pertinent. Vigilante should probably be shooting.

Prplhz, majority +1 is probably the hardest poison unless we have an obvious lynch. It should be the one that we don't use,or only use situationally. Right now we have very little focus and very little galvinization of potential lynch targets. Majority +1 is a bad choice.

On June 03 2012 08:31 prplhz wrote:
@Radfield If the vigilante is like "Should I shoot prplhz or should I shoot risk.nuke?" then what would you advice him to do?

I thought about how a 3-1 endgame situation could turn out if scum just keeps doing no night actions, he could force us into poisons he liked if we no-lynch in response. I'm just going to do waht you said though 'cause it doesn't look like it matters all too much what I vote and hopefully we'll not get into a bad endgame situation.

@Kurumi I'm ignoring you until you write something new. I decided last mini that I wouldn't let tunnelers get on my nerves again and I really don't think you have anything to contribute if the only thing you can say is "I'm vigilante and I'm shooting you". If you're doing some crazy plan counting on a potential roleblocker to roleblock you in case they picked vigilante and I'm scum then you're even more out of your mind than I feared.

@Zephirdd Why are Radfield and Kurumi the two mayor candidates?

On June 03 2012 08:53 HiroPro wrote:
I am voting for lynch lock. Day 3 must absolutely be mayoral election though, I won't accept anything else.

Kurumi, if you really are the vig, please don't shoot prplhz.

Zephirdd, it would be nice if you actually did say something about the people you looked. You went through a lot of filters. Surely you have something to say even if you don't necessarily have a strong mafia read on someone. What specifically made you suspicious of WBG? I would say that both he and Radfield led the lynch on Navillus equally, but for WBG you say that you are suspicious of him for leading the Navillus lynch, while the only thing you say about Radfield is "If Radfield is mafia I am doomed anyways."

On June 03 2012 08:58 prplhz wrote:

How do I speak like I don't care about being shot? I just, in that very post, asked Radfield about his opinion on this whole vigilante thing. How is that not caring? How is arguing with you and you inexistant case all night1 not caring? Even though I shouldn't care because you have no case and no vigilante with a brain and eyes to read would shoot me, I argue with you.

Are you seriously asking me why I don't want you to tunnel a townie and yell for a vigilante to shoot him?

I'm done with you for now. Take a step back and then take a deep breath. I'm not responding to you unless you have something new or substantial to say.

On June 03 2012 09:03 HiroPro wrote:



Because I have a town read on him. Switching from multiple candidates is not scummy behavior if actual legitimate reasons are provided. And the reasoning prplhz provides is adequate.

On June 03 2012 09:13 HiroPro wrote:


My personal feeling is that he is scum. But he has claimed blue "I'm amazed that I wasn't lynched. Thankfully Rad noted what I did there." and people seem to believe him. I don't think he is a good shot target for tonight. If he continues to play the way that he has so far, then he is scum in my opinion and I will push for his lynch.

But I think today it is best not to take a shot.

On June 03 2012 09:19 HiroPro wrote:
Honestly, I don't know what to tell you. You disregard everything I say so it doesn't even matter.

On June 03 2012 19:53 prplhz wrote:

So you just claimed scum?

Awesome.

Hey, why is that "You" not capitalized?

On June 03 2012 19:55 prplhz wrote:
Kurumi appealing to the people not reading the thread. Sounds legit.

Anyway, since this is tunnel city, I'm leaving this thread. I'll spend my time reading instead of responding to no-effort no-brain one liners from Kurumi. inb4 "he thinks he's getting lynched because he feels inherently guilty because he's scum".

On June 03 2012 23:50 risk.nuke wrote:
I think we should lynch zephirdd for two reasons.
1. It will shed light on the voteswitch. It is infact very important that we learn zephirdds aligntment or we'll just stab ourselves in the foot if he turns out to be town.
2. Wbg was for lynching 3 people. Myself, Navillus and Zephirdd (And kurumi who he might not have pushed for because he didn't think he could get him lynched). Wbg was killed which indicates that the mafia believed he was on to something. Knowing that I am town, Navillus is town that leaves Zephirdd (and Kurumi).

On June 04 2012 00:08 Zephirdd wrote:


1. You're basically saying that town will stab itself on the foot by lynching me -_-
2. That makes no sense. Wbg is a known veteran and obvious target; Radfield and Kurumi, even though are veterans, have suspicion over eachother(or that's how I see it). Besides, we don't know your alignment; As far as we know, you killed wbg because you thought he'd find you.


Also, with noone claiming to be roleblocked so far, I think it's safe to assume the mafia got a Framer. This is specially true because I wasn't roleblocked even though I "basically" had blueclaimed. Kurumi not being roleblocked/killed isn't incredible, however: mafia knows if there is any Vigilante in game, and Kurumi claiming vigilante would only mean to them "lol fakeclaim" if there is no vigilante in the setup.

---

Not sure what to make about prplhz and toadestern. Zero time to make real long-term analysis, but Toad making such a huge fancy case against prplhz and not answering his rebuttal seems odd. Toad, do you still think prplhz is scum?

Also, prpl

Why would you be worried about someone making a case on you?

To whom it may concern: What is your opinion on Toades/Kurumi X prplhz?

My opinion is that Toadesstern is making a bad case and trying to push for a mislynch. Kurumi gives very little reasoning to his posts, and tunnels himself on a player of choice(Radfield day0/1, prplhz night1/day1). prplhz has answered most of the questions with reasonable responses.

Go you~

On June 04 2012 00:29 risk.nuke wrote:

He died brainiac, and it wasn't the flu. Sure he was a veteran and that makes him a target but why would they kill him if all his targets were town. If they have a town veteran beeing suspicious at other townies thats a goldmine for the mafia. Making the townies fight and push lynches amongst themselves. They don't kill their own goldmines regardless of how feared scumhunters they are. And wbg is known to be an exellent scumplayer not an amazing scumhunter.

@Hiro: Will I need to repeat every little thing so that your tiny brain can puzzle it together. I posted additional reasons for why zephirdd is a good lynch. It was not a new case because zephirdd already had a case on him.

On June 04 2012 00:36 risk.nuke wrote:
No I think they killed him because he was on to something which is the most logical explaination. Kurumi why do you think they killed wbg? I'm starting to feel that what you're saying is 'the scumteam isn't playing optimal and that's why they killed wbg'.

On June 04 2012 05:30 Radfield wrote:
Oh yeah, no one should be voting yet. We've got our lynch lock on.

If you want to show you're voting for someone, just write your votes in this thread, but don't put them in the voting thread.

On June 04 2012 05:31 prplhz wrote:
Funny how Kurumi wants to lynch me because I didn't care about the lynch and Toadesstern wants to lynch me because I argued too furiously about it.

@Toadesstern You didn't read Navilus' filter from Resistance 2 did you? Really, just read the 5 first posts and you'll see where I'm coming from with the whole Navilus deal. Here you go. I don't expect you to come around (at least not on your own) but I'm going to try to make it hard for you not to.

Also, I'm not going to respond to your response 'cause I wouldn't achieve anything by it and I don't want to text wall this place up. Most of it is how you disagree with me and the stuff that I do and trying a little too hard to interpret it as scummy instead of keeping a neutral POV. It's really that simple and it never required a text wall from either of us to begin with.

On June 04 2012 01:57 Kurumi wrote:
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On June 04 2012 05:45 prplhz wrote:
Really Kurumi, you're just spamming the thread by now. I never promised any cases within a couple of hours. I have suspicions but I intend to see this day through before posting anything substantial. I might do it sooner though.

It would really work a lot better if you had the patience to wait until I was clearly not going to do what you though I needed to do if I was town. If I'm town and I make a case now you'll just say "Hah! It was only because I reminded you!" while if I'm scum you'll say "Hah! It was only because I reminded you!". You can only achieve something by actually being quiet for just one moment and then see if I do what I promised like townies would be prone to do or if I get lazy like scum would be prone to do.

Mafia is like quantum physics; you can't prod shit without also changing it and possibly rendering it completely useless.

On June 04 2012 06:08 Radfield wrote:
I'm fairly certain Toad is scum. Case incoming ~30-45. Hold on to your hats.

On June 04 2012 06:12 Radfield wrote:



I reread your filter is what changed my mind.

There was something funny going on with your posts though, and you voted Navillus real quick after defending him for a bit. I think Kurumi wrote something that swayed me a bit as well. I'm really not sure why I was leaning scummy on you right there, I even had you written down as PROB TOWN in my notes. I could go back and reread and tell you my thought process, but I really don't feel like it right now, though your question is a valid one.

I also don't really feel like writing about talismania, though I will at a later date. Right now I want to build my case.

On June 04 2012 19:29 Radfield wrote:
Also, who said anything about Kurumi being Town....

On June 05 2012 04:56 prplhz wrote:
@slOosh You are voting Toadesstern more so because of his defence than because of Radfield's case. You point out that he is focusing too much on the scumslip even though people aren't taking that seriously and that he is rambling about irrelevant stuff such as team balance.

I think these are poor reasons for voting Toadesstern.

Townies will explain their actions, and if the scumslip just requires more explanation than the rest then so be it. You seem to think that it's a scum tell that he didn't analyse the thread for what people were mostly angry with him about, and then address that the hardest. I would say that that would be a scummy thing to do. He addressed all points in Radfield's case, and it's not like the scumslip isn't convincing anybody, it's convinced Radfield, Kurumi, and you. The rambling about team balance is a bit weird but it looks genuine enough to me. Townies don't want to get lynched either.

Fact is that even if he is scum, it was a slip. He didn't intend on it himself. He even has a story about how he considered that very line several times and how something someone else said in another game convinced him about whatever. This looks quite townie to me. I think that if scum are worried about a line, then they just god damn delete it, problem solved. He obviously dwelt at that line for some time and yet he ended up writing it even though scum are usually very paranoid. They think everything they write is scummy because they're inherently biased because they know that they're scum!

So, do you really think that Toadesstern is scum just because he apparently addressed the scumslip a little harder than the rest of the points and because he started rambling a bit? What about everything else he did in this game, has that been scummy or is that null to you?

On June 05 2012 14:12 HiroPro wrote:


Are you really a vig, lol. Like really. Because then there's no point in voting "majority+1" and we should just do the mayoral election.

On June 08 2012 20:05 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi Why do you think that Sbrubbles is a good lynch?

On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote:
got ninja'ed
About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry.

On June 08 2012 20:20 Kurumi wrote:
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