Bang Bang Mafia 2

On June 08 2012 07:27 Ace wrote:
well we still need 4 more people to start

On June 10 2012 01:03 gonzaw wrote:
I know who the smurf is

(or at least he's making a good job of impersonating that guy).

I don't want to ruin the surprise though

On June 11 2012 17:25 gonzaw wrote:
Please everybody don't make a L plan to shoot a townie 5 minutes into D1.

If you think someone is scum and really want to shoot them...you can always shoot them later (if everybody follows this trail of thought we'll have normal days).


Okay people, if we have a Miller, do they claim tonight or tomorrow?
If they claim tonight, and we have a cop the cop won't check them, but if they don't claim tonight there' s a chance the cop will.
If they claim tonight however, there's a chance scum will shoot them because of their "semi-confirmed" status (i.e scum never fake-claim Miller, so someone claiming Miller is 80% telling the truth).


Oh wait, here's the plan:


Miller, as soon as D1 starts, claim and you'll be the one in charge of shooting on D1

My plan goes like this:

First of all, a Miller claim will avoid a cop checking him subsequent nights.
Second, the Miller can shoot at day, therefore we can use him to choose the D1 shot.
Third, like said before the Miller is "semi-confirmed" because in average scum never fake-claim Miller, and they will most likely not do it today.
Why? Because then the Godfather will be the one forced to fake-claim

Since the plan is for the Miller to shoot on D1, and the only scum that can do so is the GF, then only him can fake-claim Miller (if any other scum claims Miller, they'll get instantly caught once they refuse to shoot).

So, let's imagine the GF fake-claims Miller, what then?

Then there is another Miller or there isn't:

1) There is another Miller claim:
Then there will be a counterclaim; and one of them will basically be confirmed scum (the chances of 2 Millers is EXTREMELY low). We then let them shoot each other. If the real Miller is faster, great he'll shoot the GF and we'll live happily ever after. If the GF is faster, well then we can kill the GF the next day/night.

2) There is no other Miller claim:
In this case, although we may take him as "confirmed" for a while, he'll be in the spotlight for quite a while.
Not only that, we can make a tracker track him at night, that way we can catch him as GF.


After we get rid of the GF, then catching the remaining scum will be easy if we all claim if we have a gun (and can shoot) or not. Those that claim they have a gun take turns in shooting each day (to actually confirm they have a gun) into the group that claimed they didn't have a gun (of course shooting those we think are actually scum from that group, not shooting our freaking blues >_>).


So, if the GF claims Miller there is a high chance he'll get fucked, therefore I don't think he will.
Therefore I think we can trust a Miller claim tomorrow, and in the worst case we'll get a tracker on him at N2.

So people, this is the plan I was thinking of, do you agree or not?:

To Miller:

• If someone else already claimed Miller, he's GF so shoot him (and claim Miller in the process)
  
• If nobody claimed Miller, then claim Miller
  
• After you do, we'll discuss normally and you'll decide the shot, preferably with town consensus, so don't go rogue on our asses.
  

To Town:

• No VT shoot until a Miller claims, or until 24 or more hours have passed (to give the Miller time to claim)
  
• Everybody, just discuss, scumhunt and catch some filthy scum for the Miller to shoot at
  

To Tracker the next night:

• Track the Miller claim

If we don't have any Millers it will be apparent soon (before the 24 hours or so) since everybody will post but there will be no claim.
If that happens, then after the 24 or so hours normal VTs are allowed to shoot.

The purpose of this plan is:

1. Out the Miller so we have a "semi-confirmed" townie, and so Cops don't check him at night
   
2. Either basically catch the GF if he fake-claims, or have the Miller as confirmed townie (after the tracker tracks him)
   
3. If we catch the GF; then the rest of the game will be easy as pie
   
4. If we don't, then we'll have a "confirmed" townie in the Miller by D2
   
5. When D1 starts, we are guaranteed to have time to discuss and not have a random VT shoot 10 minutes into the day, because we'll be waiting for a Miller to claim
   
6. When a Miller claims, he'll be the one in charge of the shot so we'll be sure no shenanigans and weird stuff happen (like 2 guys fighting each other and one randomly shooting the other one)

Of course this means everybody would follow the plan (those that have a gun and those that don't), so we are guaranteed to have some D1 time to discuss

So people, what do you think?

Observation:
Maybe the SK can fake-claim Miller, since he can shoot at Day.
However, the SK is forced to shoot at night, therefore a tracker on him WILL catch him.
Also, since a "confirmed" Miller is bad reputation for scum, scum are likely to shoot the Miller claim, so the chances of scum shooting the SK will increase, blowing his cover once he survives the hit (and no medic claims his save).
Basically, the SK fake-claiming Miller will let us/scum catch him sooner or later, and doing so to get the D1 shot (why would he want the D1 shot?) and a little confirmed status for a while isn't worth it for him.

Observation2:
There is a chance we don't have a tracker. In which case we can't confirm the Miller.
First of all, the point is that scum don't know if we have a tracker either, so by having the GF fake-claim Miller they risk we actually having one.
Second, even if we don't have a tracker, the GF will still be in the spotlight, because town will assume the tracker tracked him and got a "good" result (i.e that he didn't visit anyone), but the "Miller" claim will keep being alive throughout the whole game.
This will mean that one day or the other the Miller-fake-claiming-Godfather will fall; so again it's not very convenient for him to do so

Miller - You are a Vanilla Towny that unfortunately seems so scummy you show up as SCUM to an investigation.

1) There is another Miller claim:
Then there will be a counterclaim; and one of them will basically be confirmed scum (the chances of 2 Millers is EXTREMELY low). We then let them shoot each other. If the real Miller is faster, great he'll shoot the GF and we'll live happily ever after. If the GF is faster, well then we can kill the GF the next day/night.

Observation2:
There is a chance we don't have a tracker. In which case we can't confirm the Miller.
First of all, the point is that scum don't know if we have a tracker either, so by having the GF fake-claim Miller they risk we actually having one.
Second, even if we don't have a tracker, the GF will still be in the spotlight, because town will assume the tracker tracked him and got a "good" result (i.e that he didn't visit anyone), but the "Miller" claim will keep being alive throughout the whole game.
This will mean that one day or the other the Miller-fake-claiming-Godfather will fall; so again it's not very convenient for him to do so

On June 11 2012 20:29 Dirkzor wrote:
I simply refuse to play if you guys don't read the OP. This is just over the top stupid...

On June 11 2012 20:49 Dirkzor wrote:
Toad, please. Read every word in every sentence. Will make it easier for both of us...

But I'll try again:



Bolded part means this is basicly a closed setup. Underlined means we can have a rolecop, scum doctor or whatever other role Ace can think of.

About you whole DT strategy...



You logic is just super flawed.
1) Yes a DT check can produce a green result.
2) Miller can also produce a green result
3) We don't know if scum have a framer
4) You just want to kill someone based on the first DT check that might not be correct? Outing the DT and giving scum the oppotunity to kill our DT?

Seems to me you just want people to claim regardless. I've never found you to be this stupid so maybe its on purpose...

Framer:
You can target one target per night and make them appear as whatever role and alignment you wish. In addition, you may plant incriminating evidence on a player, making them appear to have visited target player at night.

On June 12 2012 00:22 MrZentor wrote:


Is anybody else bothered by this?

There's no reason you should "veto" a decision because you can shoot.

Regardless of the topic, it stunts discussion, which is really scummy.

On June 12 2012 00:38 marvellosity wrote:


Eh... even if we didn't agree for millers to claim day 1, then doing so hardly makes someone look townish. That's what you look at their play for, to see if it makes sense or not.

On June 12 2012 02:17 FreelanceSatan wrote:
ok I just woke up got my role and went over thread. Apparently you guys are trying to find a way to take advantage of millers and that sounds like a good topic to start discussion on but I dont exactly see how pressuring millers to claim is gonna confirm them or anything with a GF that can be miller and shoot in game it reduces authenticity of any miller claim.

I think you guys need to slow down with trying to put together odd ball plans that rely on so much unknown variables and just focus on the one thing town does best. scum hunting.

( also why did chaos threaten to shoot a claimed miller when like 90% of thread is indicating that they approve of the plan on some level??) that just doesnt feel right.

I would FOS chaos for that.

Anyway im not a miller however..

I will volunteer to take the first shot if you guys have a plan other than "shoot your biggest scum read so your confirmed townie" cause honestly how accurate are scum reads on day 1. (not very) and the last thing we need is townies offing townies during the day and scum offing townies during the night.

On June 12 2012 03:22 talismania wrote:
The point of millers claiming isn't that it helps the town by giving them someone to shoot and plans and all this and that. Plans are always going to have holes in a closed setup. The point of millers claiming is that they have no reason not to.

A miller is just a VT with a special title. So what? Why wouldn't they claim? There's a possibility of a fakeclaim. So what? Everyone else in the game is going to claim VT, and that doesn't necessarily say anything about their alignment. There's a possibility it doesn't help with a possible tracker/doctor because of a possible framer. So what? That possibility is always going to exist no matter what the tracker/doctor looks at.

The upside is that it is a great thing to talk about D1, and a great topic for seeing how people react to whomever does claim, etc.

I would also point out that while there is a possibility of a fakeclaim I think it's very low. A GF fakeclaiming miller is unnecessarily risky for scum when the GF can just as well fakeclaim VT and not have to worry about assuming that a cop will doubt their sanity or not check them or something. Only way it makes sense for GF to fakeclaim is if there's a framer too. Other mafia would be stupid to claim a role that can shoot when they can't.

On June 12 2012 04:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Alright, finished reading.

Any plan that involves millers and role checking is quite stupid. There are so many things that can interfere with proper results that it hinges on nothing. Anyone advocating some sort of role centric plan needs to shut up. It won't work, we don't even know if all the roles in the OP are the only roles in the game, but even from what we can tell it is still a crap shoot and it could only get worse.

I agree with what Chaoser said. If we think someone is scummy, we make them shoot who they think are scummy. If they can't shoot and can't explain themselves then we just kill them. Problem solved. On the off chance the DT figures out his sanity and claims to have found someone a Miller claim CANNOT absolve them. A DT will only get a red check back on non GF roles if his sanity is known. The non GF roles cannot shoot, so they would need to shoot to prove they are a Miller.

That claim can literally never work.


[...]

On June 12 2012 04:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Wait why would you want to frame a miller?

I've thought about it a bit and I don't really see a downside of millers claiming especially if we give them a designated target.

On June 12 2012 04:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Yeah this is true if the cop is sane. We have varied sanity so I wouldn't put that much stock if someone claimed miller a check turned them green. Even if it's actually the gf we still have the fact that the cop may be naive.

On June 12 2012 04:55 FreelanceSatan wrote:


yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?

On June 12 2012 06:27 FreelanceSatan wrote:


It would probably be best to hold off on this discussion till after night
dont give scum any info to create wifom and chaos with their shots tonight unless absolutely necessary.
( altho it looks like the damage is done at any rate)

On June 12 2012 06:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

I'm going to shoot toad if I survive. I remember several other retarded things said as well. Any issue with that?

On June 12 2012 07:56 kitaman27 wrote:
The biggest problem with setups where so many people have guns is the town's lack of organization. It eventually ends up in a trollfest, where townies shoot each other, while the scum team sits in the background without attracting much attention. If you are town, don't forget to submit your vote for a 48 hour day cycle.

If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two.
If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle
If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot

I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return.

I support a miller claim on day one. If they fail to claim on day one, then they get shot if they claim miller at any point after d1. Millers shouldn't claim night one as it assists the mafia team with blue sniping.

It seems very unlikey that the mafia team has two godfather type roles. Based on the way the shot cooldown works, they would be able to day kill four consecutive days. Combined with the six night kills that come with their deaths and lynches, thats a 2:10 trade, assuming there isn't a SK or town night vig role. I like chaoser's plan of forcing certain players to shoot, but I wouldn't leave it up to them to decide their own target. By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will.

On June 12 2012 07:55 marvellosity wrote:
Toad dearest, let's not be talking about ongoing games

On June 12 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:
gonzaw, you've just made me read all the setup speculation on Millers. Damn thee. There is so much I do not like about the claim.



Green text: Outlines in some depth how little benefit there is to Miller claiming in this setup. He calls the benefit a 'very niche' scenario.
Red text: Having outlined why it's barely beneficial if at all to claim Miller, he leaps into categorically saying no-one should give miller claims any shit. Claims at the end he 'outlined all the reasons'. All the reasons? He clarified himself it would only help in a 'very niche scenario'. What gives? He then says mafia have no reason to fakeclaim miller. He's actively pushing this to discredit the notion.
Blue text: Also see post below, but this looks like an attempt to halt any discussion of his miller claim. Because we're so busy on Night 0, right?



Again with the blue text, pushing the idea that talking about his claim is a bad thing. To the bold and underlined: twice he says his claim is not a big deal. More language in the middle with 'or killing me, whatever'. Basically totally flippant and acting unconcerned about it.



Look at the change in tone! From his original claim with his "hey, I guess I'll claim miller" casual attitude and subsequent post with the 'whatevers' and 'it's not a big deal' he fucking jumps down Toad's throat. Now he's again pushing the idea that even talking about his claim is a bad thing. He admits here that he forsaw people being suspicious of the claim. Yet in his original post, the only 'benefit' he saw was with a very niche day 5 cop scenario.

RoL said elsewhere in his filter that we should be working off behavioural analysis. I agree. I'm not questioning the claim because he claimed Miller, I'm questioning how he's gone about it. Scum.

On June 12 2012 15:20 gonzaw wrote:
He tried to act like a smartass doing the whole "Oh geez if you think no mafia would fake-claim miller... then you make quite an effort in posting your thoughts about the Miller wouldn't you think?" thing and he was indeed being needlessly aggressive, even before in the game.

He doesn't play like that (I don't think he plays like that as scum either, although I only skimmed through Magic (was it?) where he was), and I found it odd. Perhaps he's trying to emulate Blazinghand or something...

On June 12 2012 21:59 marvellosity wrote:
I agree Dirkzor. afaik Toad has quite a lot of experience with supersoft, so he has more insight than me with how he would be expected to post as townie/scum. According to his answer, nothing telling either way though.

On June 12 2012 23:08 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Alright then, the refusal to do analysis is certainly pretty bad. As for plans, I don't actually recall playing a game with gonzaw as town. Have any prerequisite reading I could do?

Probably would help to take a look at it to make my final decision.

Actually I think gonzaw should name the game so I see something that he personally believes is representative of his town play.

On June 12 2012 23:40 MrZentor wrote:

His insistence on waiting until most of the day passes before shooting.



This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say.

+ Show Spoiler +

This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it.

---

Also, something I found along the way.




Chaoser wanted Gonzaw to shoot at dawn, effectively killing 24 hours of discussion.

That's exactly what scum would want to happen.

On June 13 2012 01:36 supersoft wrote:
+ I want all of you to take positions. I want you to post your suspicions in red so all of us can see who you're aiming for.
In a setup like this, we have to make clear were we stand! No vote means scum can hide MUCH easier!!! They don't have to have ANY opinion if they don't want to.

We have to pressure a LOT more! I start: Toadesstern is suspicious, because he talks a lot and has no opinion on any player so far! Hasn't even an opinion about me?!
Except gonzaw (and this guy is talking too much. I am definetely not reading all of this again later -_-)

***and I remember that annulgame. I caught you day1. Was shot and facepalmed in the ObsQT and our PMs.

On June 13 2012 04:12 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, I wouldn't mind Toad shooting me either now that I think of it

On June 13 2012 05:29 wherebugsgo wrote:


-_-

that game never happened. If you think you remember such a game, you're wrong, it never existed and it is a figment of your crazy imagination.

On June 13 2012 05:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
hey supersoft does Toad not understanding a joke mean he's mafia, or that he's just dumb?

On June 13 2012 06:34 supersoft wrote:
maybe 5 min is too short -_-

going to play one lol-ranked-match. After that I chose between Toadesstern, gonzaw and payldude if they haven't already shot eachother.

On June 13 2012 07:20 rastaban wrote:

I like this plan a lot, and with him being macho there isn't even WIFOM on if he is protected. I am guessing they won't hit him either way, but it gives us another check the moment he flips tomorrow.

On June 13 2012 07:26 marvellosity wrote:
Like at the end of N0, did any of you think scum might shoot supersoft?

On June 13 2012 07:45 Toadesstern wrote:
yeah I really don't want more good looking people to claim either way.

On June 13 2012 08:01 gonzaw wrote:



There's no way you can't go through this game without someone claiming.

If someone shoots me they claim they have a gun...if they fail to shoot me (post the #kill thing and it doesn't work) they claim they don't have a gun.


Now I don't get why me trying to get the guy I think is scum (rastaban) to shoot me is a bad thing *sigh*

On June 13 2012 08:11 gonzaw wrote:



So you don't think I may be bussing rastaban?


Remember SoaF where I bussed 2 of my 3 teammates on D1?
Dude, I promise you that if I was scum I'd be bussing the hell out of my teammates right now, and rastaban is surely one of them, so go check him out.

On June 13 2012 08:14 gonzaw wrote:
Well, that was initially my plan (everybody claims if he has a gun or not and they take turns shooting those that don't), so even if that was the case I don't see anything wrong with it

On June 13 2012 08:23 gonzaw wrote:
Yes, this is turning out exactly like it does in UG.

I'm FoSed in D1 for random reasons even if people think I'm being pro-town, and then everybody ignores what I say just because "you are mafia and we don't listen to mafia".
Then after I'm killed they'll say "oh fuck why u so scummy gonzaw?" and then they'll continue to ignore everything I said (and most likely go and lose the game).

Should have smurfed along with Coag.

On June 13 2012 08:40 supersoft wrote:


?

On June 13 2012 08:36 marvellosity wrote:


payl was very much here and then left without commenting on anything important.

Guys, I really want to shoot gonzaw. Everything I've read again makes me believe he's scum. Can I do it or am i going to get shouted at

On June 13 2012 12:07 MrZentor wrote:
I don't see how anybody could have thought Gonzaw was scum after that claim.

The balls of steel was the sort of detail which sum doesn't have the time or energy to fabricate.

On June 13 2012 12:16 MrZentor wrote:
I thought you guys would have waited at least an hour before the end of the day before shooting, so I thought I would be on at the end. -.-

On June 13 2012 22:26 rastaban wrote:
EBWOP (need to proof, sorry)
Deadline shifts according to when the shot is fired right, so now the deadline will be 2am so you will be there for the next one (or at least be awake near when it occurs)

On June 13 2012 23:50 MrZentor wrote:
If what Toad says is true, then it isn't really THAT anti town to shoot a few minutes into the day, because then we'll basically have a 48 hour night.

Right?

On June 14 2012 00:37 Dirkzor wrote:
Toad please answer my question...

On June 14 2012 02:51 supersoft wrote:


uh that's neat. I think we actually should abuse this. Our number 8.
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 14 2012 07:44 rastaban wrote:
Ebwop
Gratz Guys

Stupid autocorrect

On June 14 2012 08:32 rastaban wrote:

No, Yes, Use Alt+0196, or http://www.amazon.com/German-Bilingual-Language-Keyboard-Windows/dp/B000C1BA7Y

On June 14 2012 09:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
Holy shit Payle...you guys wanna kill that dude?

Ugh
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 14 2012 14:54 supersoft wrote:
and i need a full claim from toad please...

On June 14 2012 21:52 marvellosity wrote:
If it weren't you I'd be getting extremely suspicious that you're trying to make it about you. But you're Toad. So I'm gonna let it drift to the back of my brain for now

On June 14 2012 22:07 marvellosity wrote:


2 people isn't very many. Like I said it's not all about you. You get people to stop talking about you by finding scum and looking pro-town, not by shooting people for god's sake.

On June 15 2012 06:22 supersoft wrote:
i probably will...

toad i know you're around! It's 23:22 and you got nothing better to do. (Or do you have a gf right now, in that case you're excused.)

Shoot this paylguy

On June 15 2012 07:32 supersoft wrote:
btw. Toad. We're supposed to kill scummy players. Not bad players.
think about it. You don't want to catch my bullet.
Start working on the following players:

kitaman27

talismania

Mr.Wiggles

Kenpachi

Cephiro

two of them are scum on my list. 3 unsure.

On June 15 2012 01:16 Cephiro wrote:
Mostly caught up on the thread. I'm going to start polishing my cases in around 1,5 hours when I arrive home, and I will be refreshing the thread as I am finishing it so that I can answer to any questions necessary, as well as give my short opinion on the happenings so far.

On June 15 2012 08:06 supersoft wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340480&user=32774

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340727&user=32774

Do you guys see the similarity of his openingpost?

On June 15 2012 08:11 supersoft wrote:
he's not really playing protown this game... he's like a neutral commentator who just farms the easypoints. Like that hint of gonzaws greencheck on me

On June 15 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
I find it quite troublesome that you're telling us not to shoot payl as well. You told me an hour ago to just shoot already so that we can go to sleep. What has changed? What would have happened if I just did what you told me to do and just shoot?
Were you convinced I would not shoot and wait and this was all just a great plan?

That's really giving me some thoughts right now.

On June 15 2012 23:25 rastaban wrote:

Isn't this explaining why


Not saying I agree with how he went about it, or even all the logic but you can't deny the results and it as an answer to why he did it.

Toads reaction to this, whom I suspected before, supported my talismaniaread and abandoned my kitaread.

On June 16 2012 03:27 MrZentor wrote:
The only reason you'd do that as mafia is if you knew I were a blue, but I'm not.

The only reason you'd do that as town is if you were confident that I was scum and didn't have a gun. I'm obviously not the godfather as rastaban posted, so you're betting your life on having the correct read on me. -.-

I hate to sound fickle, but I'd rather shoot Payl. :/

On June 16 2012 02:47 Toadesstern wrote:
What happened yesterday:

1. Supersoft asks me what I think about Talis
   
2. I say he is suspicious and scummy
   
3. Supersoft quotes a post from PYP that was done PREGAME, aka before alignments were out
   
4. I tell him "dude, Talis is super scummy but that is the only post in talis filter that isn't scummy because it's a PREgame post, aka it's not alignment indicating because he didn't even have an alignment back then. You can't take that as a reason to consider him scummy although he is scummy for every other post in his filter"
   
5. Supersoft says we should not lynch Zentor / Payl because I am GF bussing Payl and Talis, which apparently makes Payl an incredible bad target for whatever reason and therefore he shoots Talis instead of Payl or me
   
6. I am therefore mafia because I agreed with his read on Talis, just not with his reasoning because he quoted a pregame post and because I am bussing Payl.

Am I really the only one who fails to understand the logic here?
Also so far noone (except for Zentor who did the most ridiculous "case" I've ever seen) explained why I am mafia. Well and Supersoft said I am GF because I think Talis and Payl are mafia, because that's clearly the reasonable explanation here.

On June 16 2012 03:45 rastaban wrote:



What do you care who he shoots then, you are not making any sense. If he shoots you and you flip green, is he suddenly innocent? If you are so sure he is red then shoot him and let the blame fall on you, the fact that you want to give him a chance to shoot mean you think he might not be red. I think think there is a high chance he is red but very low that he is GF, so if he shoots at all he is clear for now in my book. If he really can shoot I would much rather him shoot someone who is scum instead of you who ( unlike marv ) I think is probably town. I want him to Shoot Payl or Cephiro that would make me happy, as it clears his name. Now if he can't shoot then yeah, toad go ahead and kill him but trying to tell him to shoot you if he can gets us no where as it is no different than him shooting someone else and if he can shoot we just get a dead townie.

On June 16 2012 04:00 MrZentor wrote:
...........................................MRZENTOR
........................................./.......................\
....................................is mafia...............is town
.......................................|..............................|
............................doesn't have gun...........has gun
.........................../..........................................|
...doesn't shoot tomorrow....................shoots somebody
.................|.........................................../...............................\
........gets shot in the face.....who is probably mafia......who is probably town
.................|........................................|..............................................................\
........1 dead mafia.....MrZ is town and we might get a mafia.............MrZ is town and we shot a town person for no reason

That was fun.

On June 16 2012 05:07 Zealos wrote:

Something about this post seems very scummy, and I don't really know what it is...

On June 16 2012 05:34 Zealos wrote:
It's like you half twist other peoples, and your own words to make you seem mafia, while subtly trying to get me on your side. It's really weird.

Toad
Talis: Honestly no idea. I just played with him in PYP and we were both mafia. He's more confident than he was in PYP imo. I'd say a null overall because I've got vibes in both directions so far.

On June 15 2012 07:56 talismania wrote:
Why have you ignored the part where gonzaw had a greencheck on supersoft?

Toad
Gonzaw was a DT who's sanity is not confirmed. The green check on Supersoft is not alignment indicating.
The chance for gonzaw to be sane is something like 50% and the chance for him to be insane is about 50% as well (as he can't be paranoid). So we have a coinflip on Supersoft because that check means nothing.

On June 15 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote:

the thing is that he played pro-town as mafia in PYP. Which means you're accusing him to play pro-town and willing to lynch him on that idea?
I'm pretty sure he would have done the same post as town in PYP and I'd rather take a look what wether or not he's explaining himself when taking stances.

On June 16 2012 06:06 Zealos wrote:
Toad, looking over your filter is a TON of talking about millers, then talking about whatever is going on without really saying much of use. You're so Mafia to me right now.

On June 16 2012 06:25 MrZentor wrote:
So, Toad, you now agree that instead of me shooting you, I should shoot somebody who seems more scummy, right?

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 16 2012 06:41 Dirkzor wrote:


This doesn't add up with what you actually wrote during the end of d2.

1. So far so good.
   
2. You never called him suspicious or scummy. You called him a Null read.
   
3. I didn't know it was a pregame post. That was not clear from the thread in any way.
   
4. You never mentioned that is was a pregame post. Thus you never said that was the reason supersoft couldn't compare those 2 posts as a way of figuring out Talis' alignment. All you said was that you thought Talis' would have made the post in PYP as either alignment. You also said that Talis' played "pro-town" in PYP so supersoft actually accused Talis of playing "pro-town" and that was a bad reason for calling him scum
   
5. (Haven't read supersofts filter just before this post only Toads so won't comment on it)
   
6. (Same as above and both point are irrelevant to my point)

The way you are presenting the end of day 2 doesn't align with what actually happened... And that is SUPER scummy!

The closest thing you come to calling Talis scum is this:

But you never actually called him scum. You used words like "mafiatreat" and "it's standing a little aside".

If you are town Toad why are you lying about your own actions and what you said? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

On June 15 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote:


the thing is that he played pro-town as mafia in PYP. Which means you're accusing him to play pro-town and willing to lynch him on that idea?
I'm pretty sure he would have done the same post as town in PYP and I'd rather take a look what wether or not he's explaining himself when taking stances.

On June 16 2012 07:01 Dirkzor wrote:
Posting something pregame and posting something after the game have started stating that it was a pregame idea are 2 totally different things.

I wasn't in the game and haven't read it. Only the first post to compare as supersoft asked. Talis' post was _ingame_ and thus worth reading to find his alignment. You can argue that Talis' post could have been made as both town or mafia - but is was still an INGAME post. Not pregame like you state continiously.

And no I'm not calling you a liar because of the post comparing. I'm calling you aliar because you say you called Talis scum when you in fact did not. You called him a nullread and the later used soft roundabout ways of calling him scum.

On June 16 2012 07:03 Dirkzor wrote:
Also you can't say you had a scumread on him "If it wasn't for his boldness". That is clearly a townread from Talis in your book and thus you had conflicting reads making him - as you wrote yourself - a nullread for you.

On June 16 2012 09:46 supersoft wrote:



(last sentence however you water down your stance.)

On June 16 2012 09:46 supersoft wrote:



(last sentence however you water down your stance.)

On June 16 2012 19:54 Zealos wrote:
Ok, I'm with marv on this. Even if he isn't gf, if we have a policy against shots like this it'll stop the real GF from screwing with us.

On June 17 2012 02:10 kitaman27 wrote:


Don't hold your breath. Unless you have a better explanation, I don't see what Meapak should live.

On June 19 2012 03:45 layabout wrote:
Toad, does Mr Zentor feel "weird" too?

On June 19 2012 05:50 layabout wrote:
Toad, why is it so difficult for you to write in any level of detail about the other players in this game?

If i take a look at your old town games or even at the set-up talk from this game you tend to write an awful lot.

On June 22 2012 22:53 rastaban wrote:
It was asked and answered earlier, roleblock does not stop sk kp, so he could still shoot.