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On June 16 2012 06:06 Zealos wrote:
Toad, looking over your filter is a TON of talking about millers, then talking about whatever is going on without really saying much of use. You're so Mafia to me right now.
fine shoot me. If that' a reason to call someone mafia I can't help you other than making clear you know how bad you are by shooting me 
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On June 16 2012 06:25 MrZentor wrote:So, Toad, you now agree that instead of me shooting you, I should shoot somebody who seems more scummy, right? + Show Spoiler +
No I don't. Let's get this over with. If people think I am GF becaue I am bussing both Talis and Payl whatever, I said they're both scummy, I can't even talk back to that because I'm not bussing but they were legit scumreads.
If that's really a reason to consider me mafia I will never be able convince you guys becaue you're all tunneling like crazy and will for the rest of the game consider me scummy because of rnd shit like "omfg Toad just shot a mafia, clearly he is bussing his last mafia buddy as well, just like he did with the other 2 guys!"
If we're already at this point there's no need to talk back. I'm still sticking with the plan. Shoot me or I'll shoot you. If you are convinced in Payl shoot him. If he flips green I'll shoot you the next day, instantly. If he flips red we're both happy because I was right on 2 reads, which apparently makes me mafia and you're good for the moment because you hit mafia although you look incredible bad.
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On June 16 2012 06:41 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 02:47 Toadesstern wrote:What happened yesterday: - Supersoft asks me what I think about Talis
- I say he is suspicious and scummy
- Supersoft quotes a post from PYP that was done PREGAME, aka before alignments were out
- I tell him "dude, Talis is super scummy but that is the only post in talis filter that isn't scummy because it's a PREgame post, aka it's not alignment indicating because he didn't even have an alignment back then. You can't take that as a reason to consider him scummy although he is scummy for every other post in his filter"
- Supersoft says we should not lynch Zentor / Payl because I am GF bussing Payl and Talis, which apparently makes Payl an incredible bad target for whatever reason and therefore he shoots Talis instead of Payl or me
- I am therefore mafia because I agreed with his read on Talis, just not with his reasoning because he quoted a pregame post and because I am bussing Payl.
Am I really the only one who fails to understand the logic here? Also so far noone (except for Zentor who did the most ridiculous "case" I've ever seen) explained why I am mafia. Well and Supersoft said I am GF because I think Talis and Payl are mafia, because that's clearly the reasonable explanation here. This doesn't add up with what you actually wrote during the end of d2. - So far so good.
- You never called him suspicious or scummy. You called him a Null read.
- I didn't know it was a pregame post. That was not clear from the thread in any way.
- You never mentioned that is was a pregame post. Thus you never said that was the reason supersoft couldn't compare those 2 posts as a way of figuring out Talis' alignment. All you said was that you thought Talis' would have made the post in PYP as either alignment. You also said that Talis' played "pro-town" in PYP so supersoft actually accused Talis of playing "pro-town" and that was a bad reason for calling him scum
- (Haven't read supersofts filter just before this post only Toads so won't comment on it)
- (Same as above and both point are irrelevant to my point)
The way you are presenting the end of day 2 doesn't align with what actually happened... And that is SUPER scummy! The closest thing you come to calling Talis scum is this: Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On June 15 2012 08:11 supersoft wrote:
he's not really playing protown this game... he's like a neutral commentator who just farms the easypoints. Like that hint of gonzaws greencheck on me the greencheck on you is totally wayne because gonzaws sanity isn't even clear. But yeah it's standing a little aside. He came up with that idea of everyone doing a case each circle and said he'll do that no matter what. I can't see that yet. Seems like he's to lazy to do it which I take for a mafiatreat, especially if suggested to do a case every cycle earlier. That's what I'm talking about. What you pointed out is a null-tell about him because I'm pretty sure he'd do a post like that either way. The fact that he hasn't done something so far however does look like a mafia. But you never actually called him scum. You used words like "mafiatreat" and "it's standing a little aside". If you are town Toad why are you lying about your own actions and what you said? It makes absolutely no sense to me.
2) I called him a null besides telling people I think he is playing more boldly than in PYP (mafia) and that I'm having different vibes because of that. So clearly I had a mafiaread on him if it wasn't the his bold-ness.
3)
Talis had the thing pre-written and copy & pasted it no matter of alignment.
On June 15 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote:the thing is that he played pro-town as mafia in PYP. Which means you're accusing him to play pro-town and willing to lynch him on that idea? I'm pretty sure he would have done the same post as town in PYP and I'd rather take a look what wether or not he's explaining himself when taking stances.
That's why I said "I'm pretty sure he would have done the same a town in PYP" because he said it's a prewritten post he would have done either way. Remember I was in the mafia QT with him in that game and we were pissed about why he did something that was helping town so badly.
That + the fact that Talis explained the situation should have made it clear. I even linked the game...
Your final conclusion: I am not lying about my own actions and what I said. You just said that you didn't realize it was a pre-written post he posted the moment the game started. Yes you call me a liar when I say it was not alignment indicating because it was prewritten? Or is it about the "he is scummy except for his sudden boldness" that's making you think it's weird because it's not a "fos" in your books?
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On June 16 2012 07:01 Dirkzor wrote:
Posting something pregame and posting something after the game have started stating that it was a pregame idea are 2 totally different things.
I wasn't in the game and haven't read it. Only the first post to compare as supersoft asked. Talis' post was _ingame_ and thus worth reading to find his alignment. You can argue that Talis' post could have been made as both town or mafia - but is was still an INGAME post. Not pregame like you state continiously.
And no I'm not calling you a liar because of the post comparing. I'm calling you aliar because you say you called Talis scum when you in fact did not. You called him a nullread and the later used soft roundabout ways of calling him scum.
Ok, what about "I was mafia with him in a mafia QT were we talked about what we're doing this game and therefore his talked about his #1 post as well and also postgame and he told me, when we were both mafia, that he wrote that post pregame and made it no matter of alignment because he though it's a good idea for town and he wants to get towncred that way" do you not understand?
Because frankly that's pretty much confirmed for me. Yeah when a mafiabuddy explains me why he does something I usually take that for granted because I see no reason to lie to a mafiabuddy in a game.
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On June 16 2012 07:03 Dirkzor wrote:
Also you can't say you had a scumread on him "If it wasn't for his boldness". That is clearly a townread from Talis in your book and thus you had conflicting reads making him - as you wrote yourself - a nullread for you.
exactly. It is a townvibe, thus everything else, like the fact that he was taking stances without backing them up, just like in PYP has to be a mafiavibe or I would have said "I have that townvibe, therefore I think he is town" and not "I have this one particular thing that's giving me a townvibe but I'm getting vibes in both direction so far so I'd say he's a null right now".
That usually reads as suspicious in my book. I lynch people for that reason, just look at VE in my recent games.
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On June 16 2012 09:46 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote:the thing is that he played pro-town as mafia in PYP. Which means you're accusing him to play pro-town and willing to lynch him on that idea?
I'm pretty sure he would have done the same post as town in PYP and I'd rather take a look what wether or not he's explaining himself when taking stances. Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On June 15 2012 08:11 supersoft wrote:
he's not really playing protown this game... he's like a neutral commentator who just farms the easypoints. Like that hint of gonzaws greencheck on me the greencheck on you is totally wayne because gonzaws sanity isn't even clear. But yeah it's standing a little aside.
He came up with that idea of everyone doing a case each circle and said he'll do that no matter what.
I can't see that yet. Seems like he's to lazy to do it which I take for a mafiatreat, especially if suggested to do a case every cycle earlier.That's what I'm talking about. What you pointed out is a null-tell about him because I'm pretty sure he'd do a post like that either way. The fact that he hasn't done something so far however does look like a mafia. (last sentence however you water down your stance.) Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:34 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm never defended talis. I said what you said about him is a nulltell...
I said I want to give kita another day because of his internet troubles, while calling him a decent shot. That's defending kita?
Well if you think it's talis + me + payl how about we end this and I shoot payl?
I'm doing colors as well because you're completly ignoring what's in there.
blue = Me saying it's protown posst he did and he did a post that was pro-town pregame lat game as well so it's a nulltell. I don't consider saying "it's a nulltell" defending when the reasoning is "that happend before the game and therefore can't be included in analysis" while I'm calling him suspicious for other reasons
red = Me saying he is suspicious and a nice hit
I don't see the problem at all. Anyways going to bed now.
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I somehow failled horribly, EBWOP
On June 16 2012 09:46 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote:the thing is that he played pro-town as mafia in PYP. Which means you're accusing him to play pro-town and willing to lynch him on that idea?
I'm pretty sure he would have done the same post as town in PYP and I'd rather take a look what wether or not he's explaining himself when taking stances. Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On June 15 2012 08:11 supersoft wrote:
he's not really playing protown this game... he's like a neutral commentator who just farms the easypoints. Like that hint of gonzaws greencheck on me the greencheck on you is totally wayne because gonzaws sanity isn't even clear. But yeah it's standing a little aside.
He came up with that idea of everyone doing a case each circle and said he'll do that no matter what.
I can't see that yet. Seems like he's to lazy to do it which I take for a mafiatreat, especially if suggested to do a case every cycle earlier.That's what I'm talking about. What you pointed out is a null-tell about him because I'm pretty sure he'd do a post like that either way. The fact that he hasn't done something so far however does look like a mafia. (last sentence however you water down your stance.) Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:34 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm never defended talis. I said what you said about him is a nulltell...
I said I want to give kita another day because of his internet troubles, while calling him a decent shot. That's defending kita?
Well if you think it's talis + me + payl how about we end this and I shoot payl?
I'm doing colors as well because you're completly ignoring what's in there.
blue = Me saying it's a protown post he did and he did a post that was pro-town pregame last game as well so it's a nulltell. I don't consider saying "it's a nulltell" defending when the reasoning is "that happend before the game and therefore can't be included in analysis" while I'm calling him suspicious for other reasons
red = Me saying he is suspicious and a nice hit
I don't see the problem at all. Anyways going to bed now.
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Yeah fine and I agree Zentor is looking good if he really has a gun. I considered him to be mafia until our talk today for pretty much every reason layabout has mentioned. When he backed off I got a bad feeling that I might be wrong about him but carried on pushing him to see what's going to happen.
I think he genuinly is scared that he's just wrong and therefore doesn't want to shoot me. I'm not going to shoot Zentor as long as I see him shooting someone becaue so far I doubt he'd have the courage to fakeclaim to have a gun like that, while what he said again sounds like a scared townie. So I'm probably shooting into Payl, Kita or wiggles tomorrow, the 3 guys I'm bussing together with talis.
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wtf happend guy. I'm going shopping becaue nephew has his firt birthday tomorrow and afterwards playing a little gold, I came back and see two dead townies? 8(
On June 16 2012 19:54 Zealos wrote:
Ok, I'm with marv on this. Even if he isn't gf, if we have a policy against shots like this it'll stop the real GF from screwing with us.
Don't just shoot him. I want to read kitas big post and I find it incredible hard to believe a GF would shoot like that when he could have just shot Gonzaw d1 with a phrase like "screw you guys, stop bullshitting around. We shoot him NAO" or he could have just shot Payl (^^) d2 after Supersoft forced pretty much everyone into shooting him with an equal phrase.
This shot was completly retarded from both point of views, not only from a town point of view and we need to check hi filter to make sure we're not hitting the next townie... Kinda tierd right now though after staying up until 3am yesterday for this and waking up 8am again.
I'd like to see Kitas post nevertheles and I'm going to take a break and I'll start rereading things tomorrow (that is starting in abtout 14 hours from this point).
And do me a favor and leave the tinfoil-hats at home.
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wtf. I can't spell when I'm tired. It's even worse than usual
EBWOP in the spoiler if you can't stand the horribad english:
+ Show Spoiler [EBWOP] +wtf happend guys. I'm going shopping because my nephew has his first birthday tomorrow and afterwards I'm playing a little golf, I come back and see two dead townies? 8( On June 16 2012 19:54 Zealos wrote:
Ok, I'm with marv on this. Even if he isn't gf, if we have a policy against shots like this it'll stop the real GF from screwing with us. Don't just shoot him. I want to read kitas big post and I find it incredible hard to believe a GF would shoot like that when he could have just shot Gonzaw d1 with a phrase like "screw you guys, stop bullshitting around. We shoot him NAO" or he could have just shot Payl (^^) d2 after Supersoft forced pretty much everyone into shooting him with an equal phrase. This shot was completly retarded from both point of views, not only from a town point of view and we need to check hi filter to make sure we're not hitting the next townie... Kinda tierd right now though after staying up until 3am yesterday for this and waking up 8am again. I'd like to see Kitas post nevertheles and I'm going to take a break and I'll start rereading things tomorrow (that is starting in abtout 14 hours from this point). And do me a favor and leave the tinfoil-hats at home.
Addition because of the SK-post:
I find it hard to believe that a SK would have shot supersoft instead of me. He probably would not have run into a lot of problems for shooting me even with my green flip because there's at least 3 very vocal players who though I was mafia yesterday although at least Zentor backed off a little.
Still, I don't see a reason for a SK to shoot Supersoft instead of people like me, or Payl.
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On June 17 2012 02:10 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 01:57 Toadesstern wrote:
Don't just shoot him. I want to read kitas big post and I find it incredible hard to believe a GF would shoot like that when he could have just shot Gonzaw d1 with a phrase like "screw you guys, stop bullshitting around.
I'd like to see Kitas post nevertheles and I'm going to take a break and I'll start rereading things tomorrow (that is starting in abtout 14 hours from this point).
And do me a favor and leave the tinfoil-hats at home. Don't hold your breath. Unless you have a better explanation, I don't see what Meapak should live.
I had a townread on MZ so far and yes what happend is troublesome, that's why I said we / I need to reread filters because either I my townread was wrong as shown with this shot or my townread was right and this shot is overconfidence as it clearly makes no sense. Neither from a mafia / SK point of view nor from a townie point of view.
I could see him do that as mafia on purpose to play the "come on, I'd never do THAT as a mafia"-card because I'm having a hard time thinking he'd do what he did as a townie, especially after TL and our talk in my Mason-QT. This is just super weird so far. If he's not town he' mafia though. SK is pretty much impossible because of what I already said.
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Okay I'm back in my place and could start analyzin' soon buuut, since the GF is now dead we don't actually need that imo lol
GF is dead which means we have a mafia without a gun. What about Supersofts massclaim idea? No full massclaim, just telling people wether or not you have a gun and if you have a gun you're good first of all and if you don't you might be mafia.
We don't want a full massclain because we might have vets or stuff like that and I obviously don't want to tell mafia where to not shoot and where to shoot instead.
That way we're going to end up with 2 groups:
a) I do have a gun
b) I do not have a gun.
We make the suspicious people (everryone!) shoot the most suspicious out of group b. That way we know the guys from a are not fakeclaimers, because we're forcing them to shoot. That also means we don't need people who already shot to shoot another time and those people need to wait for the other guy to shoot.
Also mafia will proooobably shoot into the claimed "have a gun"-group because we know the mafia can't be in that group and they don't want to thin out the B-group they're in himself. Which means if there is a SK we'll know that becaus there's KP missing. So far it's not really clear if there is a SK because theoretically it could be a mafia vig and a blue vig that shot yesterday for example although that's kind of unlikely.
Any Drawbacks I'm missing? I already claimed VT yesterday and I never ended up shooting because of this "herpederpe I'ma going to shoot 5 mins into the deadline!" when I'm asleep. So I'd be willing to take the shot to prove that I have a gun.
Probably missed a bunch in the thread because of the birthday of my nephew today, football yesterday, football today (in an hour) and shopping yesterday, so I hope noone else posted this before. I literally just came trough the door of my flat, plugged the laptop in and posted what I thought about while on the train.
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Oh and yeah, we obviously don't do that at night. Just a thought we can already talk about and if we do that we're doing once the day has started.
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soooo. What about the claiming thing?
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Yeah I've got the same feeling about Zealos. I haven't seen him play town so far and only saw him play mafia in LV.
He played a little like this as well. In LV I was a modconfirmed townie-mason (because there were no mafia masons in that game) by the end of n1 and I claimed very early d1 to become mayor.
A lot of people were scared I'm a fakeclaiming mafia but Zealos instantly got into to thread telling people he thinks I am town and trusts me to get towncred. When asked why he thought so, he wasn't able to tell people why and he flipped mafia.
So yeah zealos feels weird.
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On June 19 2012 03:45 layabout wrote:
Toad, does Mr Zentor feel "weird" too?
thought so earlier but I doubt he's mafia after the conversation we had when I forced him to shoot me 2 days ago or something like that. That really sounded like a concerned townie to me so although I started with a mafia read on zentor I backed off there and would rather kill someone else because that conversation really felt genuine.
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I'd like him to shoot though. Basicly everyone who has a gun is looking incredible good right now.
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Keep cool Zealos, I said I'm going to shoot this cycle and I will. I really had no chance to shoot the last couple of cycles...
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22:30 GMT (+00:00). That's 24:00 my time and I have to wake up tomorrow so I really can't make it later. I'm going to shoot into someone who has not claimed wether or not he has a gun or into someone who has claimed to not have a gun.
I am obviously going to pick the most scummy out of those.
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EPT
