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On May 25 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
Katina HARD PUSHED N_T yesterday alongside me in the wee hours of day. Did you ignore this completely Marvel? I mean, you're asking me why I don't see how little content she has, I ask you why you're ignoring what content she does have.
I am not ignoring the content she has. I am asking about these specific comments. She points out Nova spams, to what end? When wbg pulls her up on it, she says "yea, i know it doesn't mean anything." Then why did she make the comment, to what purpose?
I'm going to have to go back over the thread to see at what time she was pushing for an N_T lynch.
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On May 25 2012 02:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
I need someone to come in here and tell me why they think WBG is town please! Anyone, don't be afraid! Just come in here and say with clear reasoning why they think WBG is town!
I can't tell you that wbg is town, but I also can't tell you that wbg is scum.
My issue with much of your case on wbg is that you are making a narrative out of his posts that doesn't actually have to be the case.
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On May 25 2012 02:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
marvel, here's what I want you to do. I asked you a question in my case against Bugs. I've tried to answer all of your questions, and you, like EVERYONE ELSE in town besides Navillus, has ignored the question I posed in my case. Because of this, I'm certain no one has even read my case (aside from Navillus).
Go read my fucking case marvel, I'm literally not even going to respond to you until you answer the question I posed of town.
Alright alright, I did. I couldn't find a specific question you asked of town unless I missed it. What was it?
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On May 25 2012 02:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
Did Bugs satisfactorily answer the question I posed of him regarding Nova?
Do you mean
"So why? Why would you say "by the time I asked Katina that I had already started to think Nova was town" when you never really "thought" he was scum to begin with?"
? That whole train of thought?
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Alright, got it, I'll collect my thoughts
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On May 25 2012 02:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't have ONE post on Bugs marvel, to get the entirety of my case you have to read my filter marvel. I'm sorry if you don't want to do that, I understand if you're "pressed for time" or whatever, but the whole of my thoughts on Bugs is in my filter...it's not a case, but an ever evolving train of thought that keeps growing more and more certain.
Hey now, the reason I didn't find your question easily was because I had to read the multitude of posts in your filter about him, don't get angry at me.
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On May 25 2012 02:34 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 15:17 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2012 14:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
Be prepared for VE to call you scum again, whether true or not :p
Since my original post got buried:
Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well. Call him scum again? I've explained, in detail, why I think you two are scum TOGETHER. Me calling him scum "again" doesn't prove anything about anyone except that I still believe what I said I believe before dawn. On May 22 2012 16:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs, I loathe to talk about my reads with you for balance reasons, but everyone else has forsaken us.
How confident are YOU that Nova is scum? I feel like he went limp kinda quick, but aside from that has at least quit posting scummily. Whether that's just because he's quit posting is obviously up for debate. Combined with the fact that he's got so many people going "Meta him bro" and the fact that he's all "Meta me bro" and it just looks really bad.
But something doesn't feel right - like, he seems like TOO easy a target, ya know? This was what I asked after bugs has been asking Katina if she's sure Nova is scum. Here is bugs' following post. On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though.
I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order.
Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum)
By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum.
Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy.
If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline.
##unvote
##vote Mouldy Jeb
PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall)
Now, I put it to town to decide. Did bugs satisfactorily answer the question that I very specifically and very directly asked bugs? I think not, myself. Bugs would have you believe that I'm "self-centered". Well, let me try again. Here's a question I posed of Bugs. On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs? Does bugs respond? YES HE DOES!!! On May 22 2012 05:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs? ?? I don't think that's balanced at all; normally a 16 player game has 4 mafia on one team. As this is a 15 player game I would expect that to be true as well. Wait a second...sokaywait....you are only responding to things that matter, right? Didn't you just write: On May 24 2012 14:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
You say I'm ignoring you because you're either wholly self centered or scum. I address only what's necessary to address and nothing more, because information about reads in the hands of scum causes them to act differently.
Think about ET being shot, and reread some of the only posts made on him. Tunkeg made an ET accusation that was completely ignored. ET was relatively vocal, and from what I recall several people called him town.
Each time you've accused me of ignoring you both in this game and others there's two explanations: I'm afk when you are here or I've already addressed you and you simply don't find it satisfactory. My problem? Not really.
Anyway, if you want to work together then you might as well stop calling me scum, since I'm not. ...the bolded? So in what way does "2 families vs 1 family" balance related question NEED to be addressed? How is that going to help us find scum?
I didn't quite know how to answer this in a coherent manner, so I've used red, blue and green to highlight.
Now, he didn't answer you directly, but he answered your red question in the same colour, ditto with the blue question.
As for the green, I'm specifically pointing at what bugs wrote. The point is that the question about two families of course did not need to be addressed, but doing so does not give information about reads to scum, therefore there was no potential harm in doing so. That's how I read it and it seems reasonable.
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On May 25 2012 02:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay marvel, let me ask you because Bugs will pretend to be exasperated if I ask him.
If we don't talk about our scum reads with each other, how are we to find scum? This is the big part about Bugs' play that I can't reconcile. I'm town, and I don't know who to trust...but I can't hope to find out who IS scum unless I get information from others about their reads and the reasoning for their actions. Bugs is abdicating responsibility for hunting scum with the phrase "information about reads in the hands of scum is bad"....but he handily glosses over the fact that without discussion our reads and reasoning, there's literally NO WAY TO FIND SCUM. Otherwise, we're just pointing a finger, lynching and hoping it turns out okay. We can't just randomly lynch, and we can't put all of our trust in one person to tell us who to lynch when there's no way to know if he's town or not (especially someone who isn't even willing to discuss his reads)
It doesn't make any sense, the way Bugs is playing. It's contradictory, and I can't understand what the hell he hopes to accomplish if he's town....and I know Bugs is better than this, so that is why I'm certain he's scum.
This point is valid, and is one I've alluded to myself. I dislike posts such as these:
On May 25 2012 02:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
Right now I don't feel like sparing very much effort since there's no point when more than half of you don't read to begin with.
On May 25 2012 02:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
Based on that alone I think there are at least two viable targets, but neither of them has received much attention. I'm gonna sleep on it for a bit and then if this Zealos thing doesn't take off I'll make a stronger case.
The first one is at best arrogant and at worst an abdication of scumhunting responsibilities. The 2nd... well actually yes, I would like to see the cases and reads myself, and it shouldn't be contingent on whether the Zealos lynch 'takes off'.
I expect to hear from wbg some more during this cycle on his reads. "I want the rest of town to do the work" or "people don't read" isn't a good reason not to present reads and cases. At the moment the way he's posted doesn't have to be scum, but if he continues to refuse to share his reads/cases, this will change.
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On May 25 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh, I can't read now. Cool guy.
********RAGEQUIT INCOMING*********
Unfortunately your ragequits are not alignment indicative, so please do not 
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On May 25 2012 03:09 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 03:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Mattchew would you be willing to play seriously from now on out? Your posts are incredibly annoying in their current form, and given how few people are actually playing to win it'd be nice if we didn't have to wade through more difficult nonsense. Not all silences are easily broken.
Break it with difficulty then.
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On May 25 2012 03:13 Katina wrote:
But at least Foolishness responded to people in Aperture and he was able to give out reads and make cases against people. I wouldn't mind killing Zealos I'm leaning more towards Mafia on him, but I think N_T and Mattchew come first. The cases against those two are much stronger than Zealos. As for WBG I have to go back and take a better look at him. I pretty mmuch ignored the little squabble between you two because it wasn't productive for the town.
Actually, your case on N_T is absolutely pathetic compared to the case on Zealos.
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Ok, I'm going to try a slightly different tack on Zealos, because it appears I am not gaining as much traction as I like. Instead I will be presenting quotes together with minimal commentary.
Contradiction:
On May 22 2012 00:09 Zealos wrote:
I also gather that it will be impossible for you to defend yourself for the actions of Acro, and so it would be unfair to lynch you from that alone, but I am still suspicious of you.
##Unvote
On May 23 2012 23:18 Zealos wrote:Not to mention from the very start he distances himself from Acro, instead of trying to make himself look more innocent: I understand the reasoning, but it seems like a free copout for acro's scummy posting.
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Contradiction:
On May 23 2012 00:04 Zealos wrote:No strong ones, no, I haven't had a good enough look over the thread. I'll look over everything at the end of the night, because even if I tried to make a case now it'd probably be too late to get anything done about it.
On May 23 2012 00:16 Zealos wrote:
Not the case. My opinion is that Jeb should be lynched. The reason is twofold. 1. He is still a strong scumread, even though I said it was more likely that he is bad town. 2. That he has lurked, then been less than useless to town. I think he is a strong lynch, regardless of whether I have a strong scumread.
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Contradiction:
On May 23 2012 00:04 Zealos wrote:
No strong ones, no, I haven't had a good enough look over the thread. I'll look over everything at the end of the night, because even if I tried to make a case now it'd probably be too late to get anything done about it.
On May 23 2012 17:57 Zealos wrote:
Just woke up. Lynch is a shame, but worse things can happen, I've got some pretty good scumreads to post, and I'll do them just before deadline to avoid getting killed if possible/gives me time to put together a decent case(s)
Light explanation - "if I tried to make a case now it'd be too late". This is 7 hours before the lynch. After the lynch he wakes up with his scumreads, all the material on his cases on me/zelblade being present before he decided not to do so the previous day 7 (!) hours before lynch. See post later in green that ties into this.
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Practically admitting being scum:
On May 24 2012 04:17 Zealos wrote:
Your case almost seemed reasonable apart from the fact your summary does nothing to point me as mafia, instead, it just tries to find flaws in my case against you.
On May 24 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote:
To your 3/4 and summary in general. I point out the many flaws in your case against me, because when scum are 'scumhunting' they need to fabricate a case on a townie. Unless scum is bussing, they will have to fabricate motivations that do not exist in order to try to conjure up a case. Your case against me was riddled with lies, inaccuracies, and fallacies which I pointed out - in short a case but not a case. I can't for the life of me remember which game it was, but the veterans might remember - Caller scum did this in some big game and was caught for it.
I quote my post as the rebuttal of his incorrect quibble of my summary.
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Contradictions and Lies:
On May 24 2012 08:18 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 08:16 marvellosity wrote:
Convenient, then, that you decided not to spend the time looking for scum and instead deferred doing so until after the lynch.
##Vote: Zealos I was asleep. Deal.
On May 24 2012 08:20 Zealos wrote:
Actually, to clarify the first portion of the post. I was asleep just before deadline. I still felt mouldy was the best lynch. Looking for scum doesn't help when there's nothing to see.
Tying into:
On May 23 2012 00:04 Zealos wrote:
No strong ones, no, I haven't had a good enough look over the thread. I'll look over everything at the end of the night, because even if I tried to make a case now it'd probably be too late to get anything done about it.
On May 23 2012 17:57 Zealos wrote:
Just woke up. Lynch is a shame, but worse things can happen, I've got some pretty good scumreads to post, and I'll do them just before deadline to avoid getting killed if possible/gives me time to put together a decent case(s)
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How is this dude not scum?
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Everyone's gonna ignore my Zealos post and question then?
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On May 25 2012 03:52 Mattchew wrote:
He lurks, lies, empty promises, and has contradictions WBG
Nothing in comparison to Zealos, as outlined.
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On May 25 2012 03:54 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 03:53 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 03:52 Mattchew wrote:
He lurks, lies, empty promises, and has contradictions WBG Nothing in comparison to Zealos, as outlined. the difference is i don't see the scum motive in zealos's faults
You don't see the scum motive, in for example, saying I couldn't defend myself for Acrofales and then later accusing me based on it?
You don't see the scum motive in, say, lynching a townie because he didn't have any reads despite the fact he could have made them?
You don't see the scum motive in him saying there was nothing scummy to see, and then waking up AFTER the lynch and finding such things?
Are you blind?
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I am not voting for zelblade when the entirety of the case against him is that he said he would probably post reads and he hasn't.
That's not enough.
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On May 25 2012 03:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
who knows, maybe they're both scum.
We have no idea at this point but we need to work together to kill scum. There are merits for both lynches.
We do have an idea. We have a strong case, and we have a case built on lurking and a single failure to present some reads.
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On May 25 2012 04:04 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 03:57 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 03:54 Mattchew wrote:On May 25 2012 03:53 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 03:52 Mattchew wrote:
He lurks, lies, empty promises, and has contradictions WBG Nothing in comparison to Zealos, as outlined. the difference is i don't see the scum motive in zealos's faults You don't see the scum motive, in for example, saying I couldn't defend myself for Acrofales and then later accusing me based on it? You don't see the scum motive in, say, lynching a townie because he didn't have any reads despite the fact he could have made them? You don't see the scum motive in him saying there was nothing scummy to see, and then waking up AFTER the lynch and finding such things? Are you blind? you cant defend yourself against them (cause you arent him), but that doesnt mean they cant be used and should be thrown away like they never happened. (Acro gave me my initial townread on you guys btw) I don't know what you are referring to with your 2nd point. I don't know when he actually sleeps so idk why that matters. Also, I think it would have been easier for him as scum to just sit idle and let the thread go wild then to make the comments he did. He doesn't seem stubborn with his reads or thoughts, which I find to be pretty telling that he doesn't have much information.
Alright, let's do zelblade.
Something came up in his life and he couldn't play mafia.
Oh look town motivation.
Shall we discard both cases now?
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On May 25 2012 04:13 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 04:06 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 04:04 Mattchew wrote:On May 25 2012 03:57 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 03:54 Mattchew wrote:On May 25 2012 03:53 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 03:52 Mattchew wrote:
He lurks, lies, empty promises, and has contradictions WBG Nothing in comparison to Zealos, as outlined. the difference is i don't see the scum motive in zealos's faults You don't see the scum motive, in for example, saying I couldn't defend myself for Acrofales and then later accusing me based on it? You don't see the scum motive in, say, lynching a townie because he didn't have any reads despite the fact he could have made them? You don't see the scum motive in him saying there was nothing scummy to see, and then waking up AFTER the lynch and finding such things? Are you blind? you cant defend yourself against them (cause you arent him), but that doesnt mean they cant be used and should be thrown away like they never happened. (Acro gave me my initial townread on you guys btw) I don't know what you are referring to with your 2nd point. I don't know when he actually sleeps so idk why that matters. Also, I think it would have been easier for him as scum to just sit idle and let the thread go wild then to make the comments he did. He doesn't seem stubborn with his reads or thoughts, which I find to be pretty telling that he doesn't have much information. Alright, let's do zelblade. Something came up in his life and he couldn't play mafia. Oh look town motivation. Shall we discard both cases now? Why would he point something out as being scummy (jumping around) and then in his next post name 3 players and vote a new one (who 2 of his scum reads were also voting)
zelblade said his vote had been jumpy. zelblade looked at the options and then voted for one player, not several. What's the problem?
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I have 3 of my scumteam that I'm reasonably confident on. Now for the 4th.
Need Katina, Acid, and zelblade to either start posting or start posting relevantly.
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EPT
