These are the players that voted for HiroPro after the DT check. Zealos, Mattchew, Tunkeg, Acid~ are the players who didn't change their vote. I am certain there is at least one scum among the 5 that isn't Zealos, who either voted and switched or voted and stayed. VE I am scratching, same with froggynoddy (even if I am sold on him being town yet).
This leaves Mattchew and acid.On Mattchew I have said what I think, at least about what occured before the lynch, I have also said what I thought of his flavor posting and his return to normal posting. Acid I think is a good option, he was pushing the counterwagon on Zelblade together with Mattchew. He was softdefending Zealos in a manner that makes me suspicious. He ended up voting Zealos before the claim, but I think the reason for voting is strange:
On May 25 2012 07:24 marvellosity wrote: That doesn't really address of what I see as a pretty big inconsistency on his thought process on zelblade/zealos though
Me thinky zelblade scum. Me thinky zealos maybe scum. Me thinky zealos maybe bad town.
On a more serious note, it seems like the zelblade vote is losing traction and I don't want a repeat of day one fiasco, so
##Unvote ##Vote: Zealos
Add into the mix that Acid left his vote on marvellous day 1, when in the end the lynch was between Jeb and NT, Acids secound biggest scumread. I can not see why a townie wouldn't switch to his secound biggest scumread in a case like this.
Overall I would suggest that the Vig, if the vig is shooting tonight, shoots into the pool that voted HiroPro, and more specifically Mattchew or Acid. These are also the two I think a day 3 lynch should be between if a vig don't shoot.
Also if either of these flips scum Zelblade should be exonerated, as he was the counterwagon,a nd I doubt scum would push another scum for a counterwagon.
On May 26 2012 19:07 Nova_Terra wrote: rofl nothing new while i was asleep, aka. massive amounts of arguing, froggy making another Oh im back Nova is scum tunnel which everyone ignores, tunkeg getting a bad idea and playing in a different way than he said he would lets lynch acid next for vig shot i'd say Katina or Hiro, im not dealing with a ton of wifom shit after acid gets lynched and katina dies, we just lynch froggy too and then proceed to win
Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning.
On May 26 2012 19:07 Nova_Terra wrote: rofl nothing new while i was asleep, aka. massive amounts of arguing, froggy making another Oh im back Nova is scum tunnel which everyone ignores, tunkeg getting a bad idea and playing in a different way than he said he would lets lynch acid next for vig shot i'd say Katina or Hiro, im not dealing with a ton of wifom shit after acid gets lynched and katina dies, we just lynch froggy too and then proceed to win
Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning.
I still believe you to be scum though, so I would expect this kind of behaviour. It makes perfect sense from a scum point of view.
On May 26 2012 19:07 Nova_Terra wrote: rofl nothing new while i was asleep, aka. massive amounts of arguing, froggy making another Oh im back Nova is scum tunnel which everyone ignores, tunkeg getting a bad idea and playing in a different way than he said he would lets lynch acid next for vig shot i'd say Katina or Hiro, im not dealing with a ton of wifom shit after acid gets lynched and katina dies, we just lynch froggy too and then proceed to win
Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning.
sheepVE for rest of game is a terrible idea regardless if hes town or not
Fair enough I agree. It was written while still being angry. If you read the rest I wrote after that you will see that I will try to contribute and actually do my own reads and votes. Thanks for clarifying what you thought was bad.
On May 26 2012 19:07 Nova_Terra wrote: rofl nothing new while i was asleep, aka. massive amounts of arguing, froggy making another Oh im back Nova is scum tunnel which everyone ignores, tunkeg getting a bad idea and playing in a different way than he said he would lets lynch acid next for vig shot i'd say Katina or Hiro, im not dealing with a ton of wifom shit after acid gets lynched and katina dies, we just lynch froggy too and then proceed to win
Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning.
I still believe you to be scum though, so I would expect this kind of behaviour. It makes perfect sense from a scum point of view.
no, it doesnt, because suddenly you and froggy are pissed at me etc, which is also known as conflict which scum hates to be a part of, so posts like this would be avoided at the very least
I am not mad at you. I have just decided that everytime anyone calls anything I write dumb, bad, stupid, retarded I will now make sure to comment on it (if I catch it), and make them explain why, I can't promiss not going apeshit again, but I will try. Why I thiink it makes perfect sense for scum to write that this is bad/stupid etc etc have I explained here:
On May 26 2012 19:09 Tunkeg wrote: Zealos, froggynoddy, Mattchew, Tunkeg, VisceraEyes, Acid~
These are the players that voted for HiroPro after the DT check. Zealos, Mattchew, Tunkeg, Acid~ are the players who didn't change their vote. I am certain there is at least one scum among the 5 that isn't Zealos, who either voted and switched or voted and stayed. VE I am scratching, same with froggynoddy (even if I am sold on him being town yet).
Tunkeg, why are you scratching VE from the possibilities?
I am not scratching him from the possibilty. But I want to scratch him as a target for a vighit or day 3 lynch. I don't think he should be our focus given the information we got now. There are things in his filter I can't explain, but imo there allways is in VE's filter. But as of now I think VE is town.
I think he would be a good target for a Vighit or day 3 lynch. I still think Mattchew is a better target though. I am certain one of them have to be scum, but I do not believe both can be unless scum decided to put all their eggs in one basket. Having two people pushing for a counterwagon in this manner and switching like they did after the claim would be to risky I think, and I don't see this as very likely.
On May 26 2012 19:07 Nova_Terra wrote: rofl nothing new while i was asleep, aka. massive amounts of arguing, froggy making another Oh im back Nova is scum tunnel which everyone ignores, tunkeg getting a bad idea and playing in a different way than he said he would lets lynch acid next for vig shot i'd say Katina or Hiro, im not dealing with a ton of wifom shit after acid gets lynched and katina dies, we just lynch froggy too and then proceed to win
Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning.
sheepVE for rest of game is a terrible idea regardless if hes town or not
Fair enough I agree. It was written while still being angry. If you read the rest I wrote after that you will see that I will try to contribute and actually do my own reads and votes. Thanks for clarifying what you thought was bad.
On May 26 2012 19:39 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 26 2012 19:15 Tunkeg wrote:
On May 26 2012 19:14 Tunkeg wrote:
On May 26 2012 19:07 Nova_Terra wrote: rofl nothing new while i was asleep, aka. massive amounts of arguing, froggy making another Oh im back Nova is scum tunnel which everyone ignores, tunkeg getting a bad idea and playing in a different way than he said he would lets lynch acid next for vig shot i'd say Katina or Hiro, im not dealing with a ton of wifom shit after acid gets lynched and katina dies, we just lynch froggy too and then proceed to win
Tell me what idea is bad, and why it is bad. I'll try not to rage at stuff like this and instead hold you accountable for it. Instead of discredit what I say, without any arguement behind it. At least explain why it is bad, and what I am wrong about. If not it is just a cheapshot without any meaning.
I still believe you to be scum though, so I would expect this kind of behaviour. It makes perfect sense from a scum point of view.
no, it doesnt, because suddenly you and froggy are pissed at me etc, which is also known as conflict which scum hates to be a part of, so posts like this would be avoided at the very least
I am not mad at you. I have just decided that everytime anyone calls anything I write dumb, bad, stupid, retarded I will now make sure to comment on it (if I catch it), and make them explain why, I can't promiss not going apeshit again, but I will try. Why I thiink it makes perfect sense for scum to write that this is bad/stupid etc etc have I explained here:
Telling people to explain is fair, but no, your points, unless i am misinterpreting, are kinda just like all Townies are perfect and will/ should play in their perfect way, without making short judgements of anything, and therefore scum are who will do that. but thats not how it works. scum will avoid arguments, scum will avoid posting anything arguable so that nobody disagrees with them. and townies will rage, spam, get into fights, etc. I'll make concise statements like this is bad any day, and it wont be any more scummy. of course it would be if i never explained it when asked, but not until then.
Ofcourse townies do this as well. But my point is that the negatives are larger than the positives for doing it, and townies should really try to avoid it. Sure you might want to state you disagree, but doing it in a manner that conribute to an environment that is cooperative is better than just state this is dumb this is dumb this is dumb and alianate the one on the receiving end.
On May 26 2012 19:09 Tunkeg wrote: Zealos, froggynoddy, Mattchew, Tunkeg, VisceraEyes, Acid~
These are the players that voted for HiroPro after the DT check. Zealos, Mattchew, Tunkeg, Acid~ are the players who didn't change their vote. I am certain there is at least one scum among the 5 that isn't Zealos, who either voted and switched or voted and stayed. VE I am scratching, same with froggynoddy (even if I am sold on him being town yet).
This leaves Mattchew and acid.On Mattchew I have said what I think, at least about what occured before the lynch, I have also said what I thought of his flavor posting and his return to normal posting. Acid I think is a good option, he was pushing the counterwagon on Zelblade together with Mattchew. He was softdefending Zealos in a manner that makes me suspicious. He ended up voting Zealos before the claim, but I think the reason for voting is strange:
On May 25 2012 10:18 Acid~ wrote:
On May 25 2012 07:24 marvellosity wrote: That doesn't really address of what I see as a pretty big inconsistency on his thought process on zelblade/zealos though
Me thinky zelblade scum. Me thinky zealos maybe scum. Me thinky zealos maybe bad town.
On a more serious note, it seems like the zelblade vote is losing traction and I don't want a repeat of day one fiasco, so
##Unvote ##Vote: Zealos
Add into the mix that Acid left his vote on marvellous day 1, when in the end the lynch was between Jeb and NT, Acids secound biggest scumread. I can not see why a townie wouldn't switch to his secound biggest scumread in a case like this.
Overall I would suggest that the Vig, if the vig is shooting tonight, shoots into the pool that voted HiroPro, and more specifically Mattchew or Acid. These are also the two I think a day 3 lynch should be between if a vig don't shoot.
Also if either of these flips scum Zelblade should be exonerated, as he was the counterwagon,a nd I doubt scum would push another scum for a counterwagon.
Yes, I didn't consolidate day1, and that was a mistake, which is exactly why I *did* consolidate day 2. Maybe my bad play put the fear in me, but in the end there was a 50-50 on both Hiro and Zealos and I did not want to risk lynching a blue role.
Of course, you also voted for Hiro after the check but somehow you're above suspicion. I want the vig to shoot Katina, but I wouldn't shed any tears on your cold body.
No I am not above any suspicioun. I included myself in the list of people who voted Hiro Pro. But you can't expect me to say that I am the one they should vig shoot or lynched? I could very well see people including me with you and Mattchew as the most suspicious voters on Hiro Pro.
On May 26 2012 21:07 zelblade wrote: Hey Tunkeg why are you excluding froggy?
Why did you not doubt the "DT check" at all?
I am not sure if it is right to exclude froggy, but besides his reason to change back to Zealos (see below) and his low post count I don't see anything that screams scum at me.
On May 26 2012 03:13 froggynoddy wrote: Can someone tell me how much time before the lynch?
Fuck it, I'm calling bull on you Zealos, everything you have just said seems so constructed after the fact (i.e. after you dropped the detect breadcrumb), plus your reasoning on Hiro seems really weak (i.e. an incomplete process of elimination). ##Unvote ##Vote Zealos
The reason why I didn't express any doubt in Zealos claim was that I was hoping (probably more than believing) that he was right. Why? Because Hiro Pro have been tunneling me all game him flipping red would basicly confirm me. Also I really wanted to believe WBG was scum, and Zealos being scum = WBG most likely being town. Maybe it was as partly out of spite as well, I don't know.
I had Zealos as one of my scumreads on day 1 though, but felt in some way his posting was getting better (probably because he was taking my side). The way he claimed was strange though, and I was thinking wtf is this. In the end though I think it was my view on Hiro Pro and WBG that made me favor Zealos.
What is YOUR interpretation of the Zealos flip Acid? What do you think about Tunkeg's opinion about Mattchew's behavior leading up to the lynch?
I'm pretty hammered right now, let me sleep it off. I'm quoting this so I remember to respond. I'll do it before the end of the game night.
Ok, here goes. I'm not surprised Zealos flipped scum. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had flipped town either. On top of that, while WBG did change his vote when Zealos claimed DT, he also put the heat on him in the first place and helped in consolidating the vote along with marvellosity. For this reason, I believe this removes them both from the list of potential scum.
Mattchew's reasoning is similar to mine - when a 50-50 case exists between two targets, it seems logical to aim for the one that did not blue claim.
Now, as it turns out, we were wrong (or were we? this doesn't remove suspicion from HiroPro at all), but that does not mean that the reasoning was faulty.
Tunkeg's post about Mattchew is like all of Tunkeg's posts so far : inutile. Unlike some of you, I don't have a high level of faith in humanity so based on his posting so far in the game, my read is that Tunkeg does not even try to understand half of what he reads.
As an aside.
I've had a town read on matt since the beginning, for one simple reason. I love MTG and it's the main reason why I signed up for this game. I enjoyed the shit out of his flavor posts and I loved reading into them, even though I didn't know what cards the flavor text was from most of the time. It was just elegant. And I understood what he meant just fine. If I had been a veteran of TL mafia, or a respected/known poster on TL or something like that, I would probably have tried to post like that as well. Unless I was scum. That's the thing. As scum I would NOT ever do something like this. It's not nearly disruptive enough to be a viable scum strategy except if the townies are all riding the shortbus. And when the thread started going to shit because of other disruptive elements, he stopped the flavor posting. I heard some silly arguments like "it's such an obvious town move that it has to be a scum move", but I tend to disregard mindgames like that because the bottom line is: his behavior helped town more than scum so far.
Why are my posts useless? Give me examples. What posts is it that you think I don't understand? What are your understanding of how I understand them? Bring something else then this discrediting shit man.
@acid How do you think WBG, VE and Katina have played thus far? They are all in on a NT case, what do you read from this?
Nothing much to say. They make a good case against NT, but I'm tempted to agree with VE when he says that it feels too easy.
"What is worse than a wolf in sheep's clothing?" —Wolfhunter's riddle
In a strange twist of fate, one of the most annoying creatures in the multiverse was brought to the place where it could cause the most damage.
I'll admit I have a hard time reading these flavor posts as they have some ambiguity to them (hence why I hated them in the first place). But the way I interpret this is that you think Mattchew is being annoying with his flavor posting.
On May 26 2012 22:40 VisceraEyes wrote: What I find the most interesting is that you came in here and posted half-assed attacks of me and Bugs now, when you're about to leave, but yesterday when we would have had time to respond to this stuff you had no interest. I mean, I get that it was late, but you had PLENTY of posts yesterday before you went to bed between the observations you just commented on and when you when you left the thread. If "Everything is wrong here" then why not mention it then when I could respond?
Because to put together the last post I had to
1) go back and read the thread where where Zealos first breadcrumbed 2) go back and read the thread at the point Zealos revealed his claim properly 3) looked through wbg's and my filter to put together my thoughts on him 4) looked at your filter in conjunction with how things went down in the thread
These things take time, and today is where I found that time.
Do not try to discredit what I say because of when I posted it.
Have you considered the possibility off a scumteam with both WBG and VE? And that their headbutting is a deliberate scumtactic to throw town off?
I was thinking about this, because I have found both abit weird. But my conclusion on it is that it is pretty far fetched, and isn't a possibility worth looking into until one have flipped scum (if that were to happend).
I also think there are far better targets as previously mentioned, and neither WBG or VE should be targets of a lynch for day 3. In fact I don't believe either is scum as of now.
On May 26 2012 21:42 marvellosity wrote: I don't like this '50-50 case'.
This isn't the case. Zealos was getting lynched before he outed his claim because a lot of people believed he was scum. Hiro did not have a single vote.
I don't get in which world this is 50-50
I meant there was a 50-50 chance Zealos was scum and a 50-50 chance Hiro was scum.
Yes, and my post there shows how that wasn't the case...
My read is that Acid does not even try to understand half of what he reads. See what I did here Acid? Now reply to:
What is YOUR interpretation of the Zealos flip Acid? What do you think about Tunkeg's opinion about Mattchew's behavior leading up to the lynch?
I'm pretty hammered right now, let me sleep it off. I'm quoting this so I remember to respond. I'll do it before the end of the game night.
Ok, here goes. I'm not surprised Zealos flipped scum. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had flipped town either. On top of that, while WBG did change his vote when Zealos claimed DT, he also put the heat on him in the first place and helped in consolidating the vote along with marvellosity. For this reason, I believe this removes them both from the list of potential scum.
Mattchew's reasoning is similar to mine - when a 50-50 case exists between two targets, it seems logical to aim for the one that did not blue claim.
Now, as it turns out, we were wrong (or were we? this doesn't remove suspicion from HiroPro at all), but that does not mean that the reasoning was faulty.
Tunkeg's post about Mattchew is like all of Tunkeg's posts so far : inutile. Unlike some of you, I don't have a high level of faith in humanity so based on his posting so far in the game, my read is that Tunkeg does not even try to understand half of what he reads.
As an aside.
I've had a town read on matt since the beginning, for one simple reason. I love MTG and it's the main reason why I signed up for this game. I enjoyed the shit out of his flavor posts and I loved reading into them, even though I didn't know what cards the flavor text was from most of the time. It was just elegant. And I understood what he meant just fine. If I had been a veteran of TL mafia, or a respected/known poster on TL or something like that, I would probably have tried to post like that as well. Unless I was scum. That's the thing. As scum I would NOT ever do something like this. It's not nearly disruptive enough to be a viable scum strategy except if the townies are all riding the shortbus. And when the thread started going to shit because of other disruptive elements, he stopped the flavor posting. I heard some silly arguments like "it's such an obvious town move that it has to be a scum move", but I tend to disregard mindgames like that because the bottom line is: his behavior helped town more than scum so far.
Why are my posts useless? Give me examples. What posts is it that you think I don't understand? What are your understanding of how I understand them? Bring something else then this discrediting shit man.
On May 26 2012 22:09 Tunkeg wrote: Also Acid you are contradicting yourself big time if you say you enjoyed the shit out of Mattchews posting:
On May 23 2012 02:25 Acid~ wrote:
On May 23 2012 02:11 Mattchew wrote:
On May 23 2012 01:54 Acid~ wrote:
On May 22 2012 23:15 Tunkeg wrote: Questions
@acid How do you think WBG, VE and Katina have played thus far? They are all in on a NT case, what do you read from this?
Nothing much to say. They make a good case against NT, but I'm tempted to agree with VE when he says that it feels too easy.
"What is worse than a wolf in sheep's clothing?" —Wolfhunter's riddle
In a strange twist of fate, one of the most annoying creatures in the multiverse was brought to the place where it could cause the most damage.
I'll admit I have a hard time reading these flavor posts as they have some ambiguity to them (hence why I hated them in the first place). But the way I interpret this is that you think Mattchew is being annoying with his flavor posting.
Doesn't surprise me. You're much too litteral in your reading.
By posting in the same manner as him, I wanted to express support on a personal level. However, I also wanted to point out that his posting could end up being detrimental to town if it pissed off the other townies.
Hmm, so you wanted to show your support for him by replying to a post where he have basicly called you out for sheeping and for being scum (a wolf). He is calling you a sheep in wolfclothes (or at least thats how I read it, and it makes sense in that perspective). No I think you understood what he meant by it, and replied as you did to discredit him, not to show your appreciation.
On May 26 2012 21:42 marvellosity wrote: I don't like this '50-50 case'.
This isn't the case. Zealos was getting lynched before he outed his claim because a lot of people believed he was scum. Hiro did not have a single vote.
I don't get in which world this is 50-50
I meant there was a 50-50 chance Zealos was scum and a 50-50 chance Hiro was scum.
Yes, and my post there shows how that wasn't the case...
My read is that Acid does not even try to understand half of what he reads. See what I did here Acid? Now reply to:
On May 26 2012 21:46 Tunkeg wrote:
On May 26 2012 21:39 Acid~ wrote:
On May 26 2012 09:33 Acid~ wrote:
On May 26 2012 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
What is YOUR interpretation of the Zealos flip Acid? What do you think about Tunkeg's opinion about Mattchew's behavior leading up to the lynch?
I'm pretty hammered right now, let me sleep it off. I'm quoting this so I remember to respond. I'll do it before the end of the game night.
Ok, here goes. I'm not surprised Zealos flipped scum. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had flipped town either. On top of that, while WBG did change his vote when Zealos claimed DT, he also put the heat on him in the first place and helped in consolidating the vote along with marvellosity. For this reason, I believe this removes them both from the list of potential scum.
Mattchew's reasoning is similar to mine - when a 50-50 case exists between two targets, it seems logical to aim for the one that did not blue claim.
Now, as it turns out, we were wrong (or were we? this doesn't remove suspicion from HiroPro at all), but that does not mean that the reasoning was faulty.
Tunkeg's post about Mattchew is like all of Tunkeg's posts so far : inutile. Unlike some of you, I don't have a high level of faith in humanity so based on his posting so far in the game, my read is that Tunkeg does not even try to understand half of what he reads.
As an aside.
I've had a town read on matt since the beginning, for one simple reason. I love MTG and it's the main reason why I signed up for this game. I enjoyed the shit out of his flavor posts and I loved reading into them, even though I didn't know what cards the flavor text was from most of the time. It was just elegant. And I understood what he meant just fine. If I had been a veteran of TL mafia, or a respected/known poster on TL or something like that, I would probably have tried to post like that as well. Unless I was scum. That's the thing. As scum I would NOT ever do something like this. It's not nearly disruptive enough to be a viable scum strategy except if the townies are all riding the shortbus. And when the thread started going to shit because of other disruptive elements, he stopped the flavor posting. I heard some silly arguments like "it's such an obvious town move that it has to be a scum move", but I tend to disregard mindgames like that because the bottom line is: his behavior helped town more than scum so far.
Why are my posts useless? Give me examples. What posts is it that you think I don't understand? What are your understanding of how I understand them? Bring something else then this discrediting shit man.
I see no value in getting into a pissing contest with you. Arguing about why you are useless or why I am useless is not going to root out any scum.
I don't want a pissingcontest either, but I want people to explain it when they are undermining me like that. I can't argue with a statement that says: "You are useless", and thats why it is such a cheap way of going at me. If you give your arguements to why I am useless (still no need to use that expression as it just there to devalue everything I say) people can make up their mind whether you are right or wrong, and I can argue with you if I disagree with your arguements.
Arguing about whether someone is useless or not brings nothing to the table, I agree, so why use the word? But me calling you out for using this wording will, as I won't let people just throw unreasonable accusations out there, which they can't be held accountable for.
On May 26 2012 21:42 marvellosity wrote: I don't like this '50-50 case'.
This isn't the case. Zealos was getting lynched before he outed his claim because a lot of people believed he was scum. Hiro did not have a single vote.
I don't get in which world this is 50-50
I meant there was a 50-50 chance Zealos was scum and a 50-50 chance Hiro was scum.
Yes, and my post there shows how that wasn't the case...
My read is that Acid does not even try to understand half of what he reads. See what I did here Acid? Now reply to:
On May 26 2012 21:46 Tunkeg wrote:
On May 26 2012 21:39 Acid~ wrote:
On May 26 2012 09:33 Acid~ wrote:
On May 26 2012 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
What is YOUR interpretation of the Zealos flip Acid? What do you think about Tunkeg's opinion about Mattchew's behavior leading up to the lynch?
I'm pretty hammered right now, let me sleep it off. I'm quoting this so I remember to respond. I'll do it before the end of the game night.
Ok, here goes. I'm not surprised Zealos flipped scum. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had flipped town either. On top of that, while WBG did change his vote when Zealos claimed DT, he also put the heat on him in the first place and helped in consolidating the vote along with marvellosity. For this reason, I believe this removes them both from the list of potential scum.
Mattchew's reasoning is similar to mine - when a 50-50 case exists between two targets, it seems logical to aim for the one that did not blue claim.
Now, as it turns out, we were wrong (or were we? this doesn't remove suspicion from HiroPro at all), but that does not mean that the reasoning was faulty.
Tunkeg's post about Mattchew is like all of Tunkeg's posts so far : inutile. Unlike some of you, I don't have a high level of faith in humanity so based on his posting so far in the game, my read is that Tunkeg does not even try to understand half of what he reads.
As an aside.
I've had a town read on matt since the beginning, for one simple reason. I love MTG and it's the main reason why I signed up for this game. I enjoyed the shit out of his flavor posts and I loved reading into them, even though I didn't know what cards the flavor text was from most of the time. It was just elegant. And I understood what he meant just fine. If I had been a veteran of TL mafia, or a respected/known poster on TL or something like that, I would probably have tried to post like that as well. Unless I was scum. That's the thing. As scum I would NOT ever do something like this. It's not nearly disruptive enough to be a viable scum strategy except if the townies are all riding the shortbus. And when the thread started going to shit because of other disruptive elements, he stopped the flavor posting. I heard some silly arguments like "it's such an obvious town move that it has to be a scum move", but I tend to disregard mindgames like that because the bottom line is: his behavior helped town more than scum so far.
Why are my posts useless? Give me examples. What posts is it that you think I don't understand? What are your understanding of how I understand them? Bring something else then this discrediting shit man.
I see no value in getting into a pissing contest with you. Arguing about why you are useless or why I am useless is not going to root out any scum.
I don't want a pissingcontest either, but I want people to explain it when they are undermining me like that. I can't argue with a statement that says: "You are useless", and thats why it is such a cheap way of going at me. If you give your arguements to why I am useless (still no need to use that expression as it just there to devalue everything I say) people can make up their mind whether you are right or wrong, and I can argue with you if I disagree with your arguements.
Arguing about whether someone is useless or not brings nothing to the table, I agree, so why use the word? But me calling you out for using this wording will, as I won't let people just throw unreasonable accusations out there, which they can't be held accountable for.
I called you useless because someone else asked for my opinion about you. I wasn't talking to you and I'm not calling you scum, so I don't need to make a case.
I *will* ignore all further posts from you on this issue. I'm not here to teach you how to play, especially since I'm far from stellar myself. If you want to discuss someone's scumminess, then we'll talk.
Thats fine. I *will not* ignore any attempts at taking cheap shots at my expense. I will also note that you couldn't back up your statement about me, and that it in fact just was to discredit me. Some more scumpoints for you...
Looks like we have burried the marv post, sorry about that:
On May 26 2012 22:33 marvellosity wrote: Ok, I'm going out this afternoon and I won't be back until tomorrow, so in case I'm dead I just want to write down some thoughts.
On Zealos/Hiro:
Earlier I have been suggesting the idea that Hiro is scum and Zealos/Hiro were bussing. This remains a distinct possibility imo, but having read back on the thread and timings I am less convinced than I was before. Zealos hadn't had all the votes piled on to him yet, so it wasn't yet necessarily the case that he was going to get lynched (I feel the Zealos/Hiro both scum theory works best if Zealos was definitely getting lynched).
I am now inclined to believe another possibility - Zealos breadcrumbed the DT check simply in case it looked like he was getting lynched later. That way he at least had a possibility of dragging a townie down first before he got lynched, which would be a decent result. This seems consistent with how it went down - he brought up his claim to the thread at the point where everyone had decided to vote for Zealos after all, so he activated his last-ditch ploy.
Anyway, both these scenarios are still possible, but I wanted to talk about them both. The question that needs to remain in people's heads is: Why did Zealos choose HiroPro? Because even in the 2nd scenario, he could have selected someone else like Nova_Terra or even zelblade, and had a likelier chance to take them down first before he died.
About wbg and VE:
We all know wbg and VE do their own little thing in the thread, and it's remarkably hard to pierce it. Nonetheless they do need to be looked at and so I will do so a little.
On wbg:
It seems like he helped push the Zealos lynch with me, and a lot of his posting has been strong and makes sense. There's a couple of things I don't like though:
On May 25 2012 02:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay marvel, let me ask you because Bugs will pretend to be exasperated if I ask him.
If we don't talk about our scum reads with each other, how are we to find scum? This is the big part about Bugs' play that I can't reconcile. I'm town, and I don't know who to trust...but I can't hope to find out who IS scum unless I get information from others about their reads and the reasoning for their actions. Bugs is abdicating responsibility for hunting scum with the phrase "information about reads in the hands of scum is bad"....but he handily glosses over the fact that without discussion our reads and reasoning, there's literally NO WAY TO FIND SCUM. Otherwise, we're just pointing a finger, lynching and hoping it turns out okay. We can't just randomly lynch, and we can't put all of our trust in one person to tell us who to lynch when there's no way to know if he's town or not (especially someone who isn't even willing to discuss his reads)
It doesn't make any sense, the way Bugs is playing. It's contradictory, and I can't understand what the hell he hopes to accomplish if he's town....and I know Bugs is better than this, so that is why I'm certain he's scum.
This point is valid, and is one I've alluded to myself. I dislike posts such as these:
On May 25 2012 02:03 wherebugsgo wrote: Right now I don't feel like sparing very much effort since there's no point when more than half of you don't read to begin with.
On May 25 2012 02:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
Based on that alone I think there are at least two viable targets, but neither of them has received much attention. I'm gonna sleep on it for a bit and then if this Zealos thing doesn't take off I'll make a stronger case.
The first one is at best arrogant and at worst an abdication of scumhunting responsibilities. The 2nd... well actually yes, I would like to see the cases and reads myself, and it shouldn't be contingent on whether the Zealos lynch 'takes off'.
I expect to hear from wbg some more during this cycle on his reads. "I want the rest of town to do the work" or "people don't read" isn't a good reason not to present reads and cases. At the moment the way he's posted doesn't have to be scum, but if he continues to refuse to share his reads/cases, this will change.
Those kinda posts rub me the wrong way. Note how wbg says he doesn't want to give reads because town isn't listening, or wbg says that he'll post reads on 2 people 'later', or generally how wbg talks about not giving away information because giving reads is giving information to scum. Fair enough as a stance, perhaps, but it doesn't line up with
On May 26 2012 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, the timing of his lapse into normal posting was troubling...like, the thread was in shambles because of me and bugs and his answer was.....to stop posting concisely and shit up the thread further?
... ... ...
Like...I don't know, it doesn't make sense. Also his absolute certainty that Bugs being town like ALL game mystifies me considering the lengths bugs has gone to to not talk about his reads and shit.
I think the only person who's talked about reads more extensively than I have this game is marvellosity.
So wait... on one hand wbg repeatedly talks about giving reads can often give information to scum, on the other here he claims he talks about reads more than almost anyone else. These two sentiments do not make sense together.
On May 25 2012 03:56 wherebugsgo wrote: alright, this is not going anywhere.
Day's almost half over and if people aren't willing to consolidate on zealos then we consolidate on zelblade. He needs to post anyway.
Vote with me, marv.
##unvote Zealos
##vote Zelblade.
I also really did not like this. There's like 30 hours left in the day and he already wants to 'consolidate' on to another player where the only case is he was inactive. It's one post that really made me sit there and think "wow, really?!".
At the time of Zealos' doctor claim, I was especially interested in how VE and wbg would respond to it. The response I disliked most by far was from VisceraEyes.
After the claim, froggy, Tunkeg, and Mattchew voted for HiroPro in quick succession. However, I would expect VE to give the Zealos claim some critical thought, especially as he has been suspicious of Zealos before. But what do we get?
On May 26 2012 02:36 VisceraEyes wrote: Gogo timely-claim!!
##Unvote Zealos ##Vote HiroPro
Nothing but a blind vote switch. No analysis on why it could be true or false. The suspicious part of me thinks that VE was behind Zealos' fake-claim, and then in the thread it looks like town is lapping it up so VE feels safe to carry on the trend. It is simply very odd that he just vote-switched like that. Bear in mind his vote here came before I started seriously attacking Zealos' claim.
He goes on to explain his switch IN HINDSIGHT (rather than at the time) with what I consider some fairly weak reasoning:
On May 26 2012 04:03 VisceraEyes wrote: The worst that can happen is 1 for 1 unless Hiro is a miller or scum pulled a massive frame. I'm not buying either of those explanations...so I'm voting Hiro. Please remember that a lynch is imminent, we're in no danger of a no lynch and your opinion DOES matter.
He doesn't buy that scum could massively frame? What, like him/toad in LI, it's so unlikely? And still no analysis of why Zealos' claim is likely to be true or false.
But all of a sudden his opinion changes with some bullshit reasoning, and he goes on to quiz Zealos on why his claim is true and what not. But imo, too late, the ship has sailed.
On May 26 2012 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay wait...Bugs is scum right? He's this big fake-claim advocate as scum...
Mattchew I'm gonna go with my gut here instead of my brain...surprise surprise right?
##Unvote HiroPro ##Vote Zealos
What kind of reason is this? bugs is scum and he's a big fake-claim advocate? This is the weakest sauce possible for switching votes. Like seriously, look at how ridiculous it is. And look at how *hypocritical* it is. scum is this big fake-claim advocate? To bring it up again, it was VE's plan in LI to fake-claim as scum and bus his team-mate.
NT Mafia kp is allways 1. So we know Vig shot, and 99,9999999999999999% he shot Acid, which was a good shot imo. Now vig should claim, then we will have at least one confirmed town, or a counterclaim.
EPT
