|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 26 2012 19:09 Tunkeg wrote:
Zealos, froggynoddy, Mattchew, Tunkeg, VisceraEyes, Acid~
These are the players that voted for HiroPro after the DT check. Zealos, Mattchew, Tunkeg, Acid~ are the players who didn't change their vote. I am certain there is at least one scum among the 5 that isn't Zealos, who either voted and switched or voted and stayed. VE I am scratching, same with froggynoddy (even if I am sold on him being town yet).
Tunkeg, why are you scratching VE from the possibilities?
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
What do you think of Acid?
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Yeah, you actually talked about him a little more than I remembered when reading that post. Alrighty then
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Time to drop it Nova, we've moved on
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I don't like this '50-50 case'.
This isn't the case. Zealos was getting lynched before he outed his claim because a lot of people believed he was scum. Hiro did not have a single vote.
I don't get in which world this is 50-50
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Ok, I'm going out this afternoon and I won't be back until tomorrow, so in case I'm dead I just want to write down some thoughts.
On Zealos/Hiro:
Earlier I have been suggesting the idea that Hiro is scum and Zealos/Hiro were bussing. This remains a distinct possibility imo, but having read back on the thread and timings I am less convinced than I was before. Zealos hadn't had all the votes piled on to him yet, so it wasn't yet necessarily the case that he was going to get lynched (I feel the Zealos/Hiro both scum theory works best if Zealos was definitely getting lynched).
I am now inclined to believe another possibility - Zealos breadcrumbed the DT check simply in case it looked like he was getting lynched later. That way he at least had a possibility of dragging a townie down first before he got lynched, which would be a decent result. This seems consistent with how it went down - he brought up his claim to the thread at the point where everyone had decided to vote for Zealos after all, so he activated his last-ditch ploy.
Anyway, both these scenarios are still possible, but I wanted to talk about them both. The question that needs to remain in people's heads is: Why did Zealos choose HiroPro? Because even in the 2nd scenario, he could have selected someone else like Nova_Terra or even zelblade, and had a likelier chance to take them down first before he died.
About wbg and VE:
We all know wbg and VE do their own little thing in the thread, and it's remarkably hard to pierce it. Nonetheless they do need to be looked at and so I will do so a little.
On wbg:
It seems like he helped push the Zealos lynch with me, and a lot of his posting has been strong and makes sense. There's a couple of things I don't like though:
On May 25 2012 03:07 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay marvel, let me ask you because Bugs will pretend to be exasperated if I ask him.
If we don't talk about our scum reads with each other, how are we to find scum? This is the big part about Bugs' play that I can't reconcile. I'm town, and I don't know who to trust...but I can't hope to find out who IS scum unless I get information from others about their reads and the reasoning for their actions. Bugs is abdicating responsibility for hunting scum with the phrase "information about reads in the hands of scum is bad"....but he handily glosses over the fact that without discussion our reads and reasoning, there's literally NO WAY TO FIND SCUM. Otherwise, we're just pointing a finger, lynching and hoping it turns out okay. We can't just randomly lynch, and we can't put all of our trust in one person to tell us who to lynch when there's no way to know if he's town or not (especially someone who isn't even willing to discuss his reads)
It doesn't make any sense, the way Bugs is playing. It's contradictory, and I can't understand what the hell he hopes to accomplish if he's town....and I know Bugs is better than this, so that is why I'm certain he's scum. This point is valid, and is one I've alluded to myself. I dislike posts such as these: Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
Right now I don't feel like sparing very much effort since there's no point when more than half of you don't read to begin with. Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
Based on that alone I think there are at least two viable targets, but neither of them has received much attention. I'm gonna sleep on it for a bit and then if this Zealos thing doesn't take off I'll make a stronger case. The first one is at best arrogant and at worst an abdication of scumhunting responsibilities. The 2nd... well actually yes, I would like to see the cases and reads myself, and it shouldn't be contingent on whether the Zealos lynch 'takes off'. I expect to hear from wbg some more during this cycle on his reads. "I want the rest of town to do the work" or "people don't read" isn't a good reason not to present reads and cases. At the moment the way he's posted doesn't have to be scum, but if he continues to refuse to share his reads/cases, this will change.
Those kinda posts rub me the wrong way. Note how wbg says he doesn't want to give reads because town isn't listening, or wbg says that he'll post reads on 2 people 'later', or generally how wbg talks about not giving away information because giving reads is giving information to scum. Fair enough as a stance, perhaps, but it doesn't line up with
On May 26 2012 08:29 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, the timing of his lapse into normal posting was troubling...like, the thread was in shambles because of me and bugs and his answer was.....to stop posting concisely and shit up the thread further?
...
...
...
Like...I don't know, it doesn't make sense. Also his absolute certainty that Bugs being town like ALL game mystifies me considering the lengths bugs has gone to to not talk about his reads and shit. I think the only person who's talked about reads more extensively than I have this game is marvellosity.
So wait... on one hand wbg repeatedly talks about giving reads can often give information to scum, on the other here he claims he talks about reads more than almost anyone else. These two sentiments do not make sense together.
On May 25 2012 03:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, this is not going anywhere.
Day's almost half over and if people aren't willing to consolidate on zealos then we consolidate on zelblade. He needs to post anyway.
Vote with me, marv.
##unvote Zealos
##vote Zelblade.
I also really did not like this. There's like 30 hours left in the day and he already wants to 'consolidate' on to another player where the only case is he was inactive. It's one post that really made me sit there and think "wow, really?!".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On VE:
At the time of Zealos' doctor claim, I was especially interested in how VE and wbg would respond to it. The response I disliked most by far was from VisceraEyes.
After the claim, froggy, Tunkeg, and Mattchew voted for HiroPro in quick succession. However, I would expect VE to give the Zealos claim some critical thought, especially as he has been suspicious of Zealos before. But what do we get?
On May 26 2012 02:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
Gogo timely-claim!!
##Unvote Zealos
##Vote HiroPro
Nothing but a blind vote switch. No analysis on why it could be true or false. The suspicious part of me thinks that VE was behind Zealos' fake-claim, and then in the thread it looks like town is lapping it up so VE feels safe to carry on the trend. It is simply very odd that he just vote-switched like that. Bear in mind his vote here came before I started seriously attacking Zealos' claim.
He goes on to explain his switch IN HINDSIGHT (rather than at the time) with what I consider some fairly weak reasoning:
On May 26 2012 04:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
The worst that can happen is 1 for 1 unless Hiro is a miller or scum pulled a massive frame. I'm not buying either of those explanations...so I'm voting Hiro. Please remember that a lynch is imminent, we're in no danger of a no lynch and your opinion DOES matter.
He doesn't buy that scum could massively frame? What, like him/toad in LI, it's so unlikely? And still no analysis of why Zealos' claim is likely to be true or false.
But all of a sudden his opinion changes with some bullshit reasoning, and he goes on to quiz Zealos on why his claim is true and what not. But imo, too late, the ship has sailed.
On May 26 2012 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay wait...Bugs is scum right? He's this big fake-claim advocate as scum...
Mattchew I'm gonna go with my gut here instead of my brain...surprise surprise right?
##Unvote HiroPro
##Vote Zealos
What kind of reason is this? bugs is scum and he's a big fake-claim advocate? This is the weakest sauce possible for switching votes. Like seriously, look at how ridiculous it is. And look at how *hypocritical* it is. scum is this big fake-claim advocate? To bring it up again, it was VE's plan in LI to fake-claim as scum and bus his team-mate.
Everything is wrong here.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
EBWOP: got my words mixed up in the last paragraph, *bugs is this big fake-claim advocate as scum, not scum is this big fake-claim advocate
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
further EBWOP: Zealos' DT claim, not doctor claim >.<
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 26 2012 22:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
What I find the most interesting is that you came in here and posted half-assed attacks of me and Bugs now, when you're about to leave, but yesterday when we would have had time to respond to this stuff you had no interest. I mean, I get that it was late, but you had PLENTY of posts yesterday before you went to bed between the observations you just commented on and when you when you left the thread. If "Everything is wrong here" then why not mention it then when I could respond?
Because to put together the last post I had to
1) go back and read the thread where where Zealos first breadcrumbed
2) go back and read the thread at the point Zealos revealed his claim properly
3) looked through wbg's and my filter to put together my thoughts on him
4) looked at your filter in conjunction with how things went down in the thread
These things take time, and today is where I found that time.
Do not try to discredit what I say because of when I posted it.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 26 2012 22:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
As far as your analysis of my actions Marvel, to be fair I hadn't gone back to analyze the claim at all, as you say, but when I did I realized the truth immediately, and gave the only actual analysis of WHY he was absolutely lying.
Add to that the fact that I was, along with Bugs and you, one of the first today to put any pressure on Zealos and I would say that not quite EVERYTHING is wrong.
So what if you were vaguely suspicious of Zealos early on? Scum are quiet happy to vaguely bus their team-mates, and you did so before I made the first major case on Zealos.
As per my last post, it is the timings of how you responded to the claim that I find most suspicious. You went back to analyse only after I had heavily attacked the claim, and of course at that point it's very easy to argue for the switch. The fact is at the time when the wagon was growing on Hiro, you happily joined it with no critical thought. That is the pertinent point.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
By breadcrumbed I meant the post he said "I can't believe no-one else sees the Red"
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Tunkeg, I think wbg is town and I think VE is scum.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 26 2012 22:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
That is a soft claim...a breadcrumb is like...him hinting at his action BEFORE he makes it so.that if he dies we as a town can guess at the actions he took...he did no such thing.
Why are you picking at wording? I was just saying that is the point of the thread to go back and read. Call it whatever the hell you like.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 26 2012 23:00 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 21:42 marvellosity wrote:
I don't like this '50-50 case'.
This isn't the case. Zealos was getting lynched before he outed his claim because a lot of people believed he was scum. Hiro did not have a single vote.
I don't get in which world this is 50-50 I meant there was a 50-50 chance Zealos was scum and a 50-50 chance Hiro was scum.
Yes, and my post there shows how that wasn't the case...
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
*grumbles at froggy*
*grumbles at being killed but nonetheless takes it as a compliment*
gg
go town, you can do it!
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Wait, WAIT.
So I was right about Zealos, Katina, AND Hiro?
Fuck me.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Also ty to the mods, really enjoyed this game actually
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 07 2012 16:22 wherebugsgo wrote:I ran into this gem just now: Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 13:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
I can't think of a situation where you'd want to claim medic unless you're like, the leading candidate for lynch and you think that claiming will save your life...you almost won because of the medic saves, and you probably WOULD have won if you hadn't claimed.
ROFL, thanks, that just put me in a good mood after the Redux business
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
