EPTMy case against him was based on large part on contradictions and lies, I don't know why anyone would suddenly believe a random claim/check.
Magic: The Gathering Mini Mafia - Page 10
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
My case against him was based on large part on contradictions and lies, I don't know why anyone would suddenly believe a random claim/check. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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THAT IS WHY, Matt. Because he's scummyscumscum. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 07:08 Mattchew wrote: marv, what do you think of hiropro There is an absolute TONNE of information waiting to be mined on how the Zealos lynch was both resisted and grew before the claim. There is also information to be had on how people reacted after the claim. This isn't me saying anyone who didn't want a zealos lynch is scum, or anyone who believed his claim is scum. This is more that the manner and timing of such things can be revealing. I have preliminary thoughts on who I think looks good and/or bad from this, but it's not the right time to share them yet before I can analyse. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
What do you think Zealos hoped to achieve by claiming? Let's say for now, Scenario A: Hiro is townie. Two things can come of his claim: 1) people believe him for the moment and lynch Hiro, who flips town, and Zealos gets auto-lynched the next day 2) people don't believe him and he gets lynched immediately. So it's either a 1 for 1 (never normally good for mafia) or it's a straight up death. I haven't done it yet but the one thing I really really need to do is go back and see just how many votes Zealos had at the time he 'breadcrumbed' his check. So, at best in this scenario, Zealos is making a 50% play for a 1 for 1. Or there is scenario B Hiro is scum. Two things can come of the claim 1) people don't believe him and Zealos gets lynched, Hiro gets town credit, especially as he's been attacking Zealos 2) people believe him, Hiro gets lynched as scum and Zealos gets a butt-tonne of town credit for 'catching' a scum Further thoughts: why did Zealos choose Hiro? Seriously, think about this. The easiest way for people to believe your claim is if people believe your target is scummy. Zealos could have chosen, say, zelblade who he even made a case on. He could have chosen Nova_Terra (bolding because choosing him absolutely seems the logical play) who was under HEAVY pressure. Nova would absolutely have been the best guy to fake a claim on. He could even have chosen Katina the uberlurker. But he chose Hiro, who had, what, no suspicion on him? Did anyone suspect Hiro before Zealos' fabricated case on him? All this leads me to think Scenario B is the most likely. | ||
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 07:31 wherebugsgo wrote: that last post was @ VE btw, sorry. We need to consider Hiro on his own terms because arguments about whether he's scum or not in light of Zealos flipping scum are kind of wifomy. Like, if you remember LI with the Toad/VE thing, in a situation like this when a scum flips after having pushed someone else pretty heavily, you have almost no way of knowing what the other guy is except based on his own behavior. In LI that was apparent through Toad's own behavior like his own bad claim and his own lack of scumhunting. Hiro hasn't particularly scumhunted but he'll be forced to now that Zealos is dead and the main pressure is gone. So, we take this upcoming day to watch him carefully. Is he a good lynch for tomorrow? No, as we need a bit of time to determine his alignment. I would say though, that tomorrow is a great time to lynch Acid or Katina. I think you are too quick to dismiss it was wifomy. Of course it is somewhat speculative, and no we shouldn't lynch Hiro on the basis of this alone. But what is playing mafia about at its core? It is about motivations, and especially motivations behind actions. Here we have a very specific action (Zealos choosing Hiro to fake claim on) from a confirmed scum. It is absolutely necessary to think about why Zealos chose HiroPro. | ||
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 07:31 wherebugsgo wrote: Like, if you remember LI with the Toad/VE thing, in a situation like this when a scum flips after having pushed someone else pretty heavily, you have almost no way of knowing what the other guy is except based on his own behavior. In LI that was apparent through Toad's own behavior like his own bad claim and his own lack of scumhunting. Also, you don't really have the right to claim this. It was you, specifically you, that raged against the thread and me in particular telling me that Toad was probably town because of his 'meta'. Don't come here and say it was apparent toad was scum when you were the one who defended him most. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 26 2012 07:45 marvellosity wrote: I think you are too quick to dismiss it was wifomy. Of course it is somewhat speculative, and no we shouldn't lynch Hiro on the basis of this alone. But what is playing mafia about at its core? It is about motivations, and especially motivations behind actions. Here we have a very specific action (Zealos choosing Hiro to fake claim on) from a confirmed scum. It is absolutely necessary to think about why Zealos chose HiroPro. | ||
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marvellosity
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You answer me bugs - why did Zealos choose HiroPro, instead of someone like Nova_Terra? I want to know what you think the motivation behind that was. | ||
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 07:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Piss off bugs, I'm just done responding to you entirely. Me and marvel are going to win this for us, because marvel doesn't have to be insulting when he speaks to people. So go ahead and freak out about whether or not I'm scum. I know you're scum, so I'm just going to wait until town sees it too and not worry about it anymore. I think you're forgetting where I swore at Matt  | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 08:01 Tunkeg wrote: But you are wrong about marvel, he is pretty much as BM as it gets, non the less he is probably town this game. Go away. This is just a nasty lie. | ||
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marvellosity
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a) had a warning for giving up b) called someone a fucking dick | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 08:11 Tunkeg wrote: You want to have WBG modkilled as well the marv? Equality or? Just for the giggles, I will explain without sarcasm. What did I do? I swore at Matt after he swore at me 3 times in a post What did wbg do? He used your own words in retaliation against a completely unfair insult from you. What did you do? You had a big strop about people being insulting, you basically gave up playing the game, and THEN you outrageously swore at someone without provocation. | ||
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 08:15 wherebugsgo wrote: hahaha this is fun though actually. Tunkeg actually seems mad and I didn't even do anything. It's almost funnier than when I try to make someone mad when I'm scum. Is that a scumclaim wbg?  | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Anyway, are we going to do some scumhunting today or are we going to wait for tomorrow? Who do people think are good lynch targets at the moment? | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On May 26 2012 08:22 froggynoddy wrote: Re why pick Hiro over N_T? Perhaps because N_T is scum and though the gambit proposed by B is a risky one Zealos was already grasping at straws trying to prevent a bandwagon and such a gambit seems awfully risky. What's the risk? It's taken me very specifically pushing the idea that Hiro could be scum for it to be even considered, and even then no-one is buying it. A quite likely possibility is that in making the play they hoped people wouldn't consider or push it at all like I've done. | ||
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