TL Mafia LV

23. Forumite
24. Manason
25.

On May 23 2012 23:49 Toadesstern wrote:
/in

I've got time like crazy right now and the next couple of weeks.

On May 26 2012 07:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Guys, since I learned how well arrogance works last game, I need to top that effort. With this in mind I present you with the scum list before the roles are distributed:
Mattchew
Pandian
Hassybaby
phagga
grush57
MidnightGladius

GG scum, you can resign now

+ Show Spoiler +

On May 27 2012 23:05 supersoft wrote:
"So you might ask yourself: wtf Toad. Why are you telling us you're scary as mafia?"

may I add, that you didnt answer this question?
I think we should lynch you for that nonsensepost. You're talking too much about your mafiaplay there.
If you don't end up being EXTREMELY I really won't change my mind.

Remember the Annul disaster?
- I knew you were red, remember?

next time examine the playerlist more carefully. You sir, are screwed.

On May 27 2012 23:17 supersoft wrote:


okay? You basically prove me right there:
accusing you for terrible play is not allowed because you're unreadable anyway?

On May 27 2012 23:18 supersoft wrote:


dude okay, I know your townplay. As townie, you'd try to explain things.
You lazy scum now try to attack my credibility instead of discussing my points.

On May 27 2012 23:26 supersoft wrote:
"IF I'm town I'll lynch mafia"

yeah sure. You got a really bad scumplayer in your team who wants to quit the game early?!
come on. I'll never buy this shit. We both know, that you dont own the scumteamlist. How can you be so certain about that.
Bullshit. Now you're wifoming around - trying to produce some Text to fog the whole case.

Provide some analysis. I dont fall for empty words.

On May 28 2012 01:02 grush57 wrote:


Okay, getting 3 out of 5 mafia right isn't an achievement. In LIV, I predicted a lot of the mafia aswell even though I was the "scum mvp"

On May 28 2012 01:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah man, owning scum includes leading town to lynch said threats...If just KNOWING who are scum is enough to "own scumteams" then I'd be one of the most feared individuals on this site. As it stands I'm kinda a joke...so its whatever.

On May 28 2012 04:08 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

I think if there's a lyncher in play, then it makes sense for them to run for mayor if they feel semi-confident in coming out of the election alright. That's also why it's important that we elect someone based on their Day 1 play, and not any future promises, and that we elect someone we believe strongly to be town. I'm not that scared of there being a lyncher since I don't think he'd be able to get enough support to be elected, if we're smart about it. I think anyone who's being lined up to become mayor must provide a case on who they want to lynch before they're elected or else we pull out support for them. This will make it harder for scum and potentially a lyncher since they'll be forced to come up with some fake analysis on Day 1, which is hard to make sound sincere. If we don't like what the mayor is saying at that point, or their analysis is fake and contrived, then we can vote for someone else.


I don't get how he's my main competitor since I'm running for both positions, but would just prefer the pardoner since I know I'm town with 100% certainty. Also, most people are just going to vote for a mayor, not a mayor/pardoner, so we're going to end up with two mayoral candidates who have the most votes, and the runner-up is pardoner. On a side-note, is Strongandbig even still running?

But, to answer your question, I don't think he's a good candidate. He basically has no platform, and he hasn't done anything to show that he's town. A lot of his posting is just about that thing with BH that has no bearing on the game. As well, he's unclear with what he's saying about how he'll use the power. He says he probably won't use the power, but then a couple sentences later he says he'll use it if he has a strong town-read. That shows that he's willing to just use the power if he doesn't agree with what the majority of town (remember, this is majority lynch) are thinking. I don't want a pardoner who's going to use his power just because he doesn't agree completely with the lynch. He also says he'll try to bring it up early if he wants to use the power, but that doesn't make much sense, since early on, there won't be a majority on someone. Realistically, a clear lynch target will only really appear in the last half of the day.

So, overall, I don't think he's a good candidate for pardoner at all. Like I said, I think I'm a good candidate, and out of other people, ET is the best candidate. The office should be made up of myself and ET.


Why did you claim like this? My major gripe with what you've said so far, is that it doesn't seem like you're willing to put in the effort on Day 1 to show that you're town. As well, you can't be held accountable for anything you've said until after you get elected. Now you throw in this claim, which also can't be verified until after Day 1.

Also, why even claim? Mason is a very strong role, especially in this set-up, because masons are confirmed town to the person they talk to. If you hit a townie with your mason, it would have been great for analysis, and if you hit a blue, then they could instantly role-claim to you and share their actions. That's pretty huge. Instead, you choose to waste the role by claiming on Day 1. Why?

Why are you so desperate to get elected as mayor? It's not like a town player is useless after Day 1. At this point, it's starting to look like you're a lyncher or assassin who's going all-in on Day 1 to kill his target with the lynch.

On May 28 2012 04:14 grush57 wrote:


We just didn't want to vote you as mayor, I don't even know why a townie should tell his blue role in this in this case.

On May 28 2012 04:23 jaj22 wrote:

Yes, but the prominent candidates were very likely to put in campaigns regardless. I'd have been surprised if BH, ET and VE hadn't put in a campaign, while strongandbig and Wiggles aren't even pushing for mayor. I suppose Toad is now a plausible lyncher, as his claim can't be "proved" until day 2. Would be a risky play though.


Hmm. Lyncher/assassin targets will probably be flavour-related, and I suspect around half the named characters are town. Not sure about a lyncher with a scum target from a balance POV though, so you might be right for other reasons.

@Toad: I notice that your correct day 1 reads are all veterans. What do you think of the veterans so far in this game?

On May 28 2012 04:49 jaj22 wrote:
Because you want to do what's best for town, right?

Right?

On May 28 2012 05:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

Based on the player list, why do you think you'd end up dead on Night 1 or 2? There's other players on the list who would be higher on a shooting list for scum, and then add in your insistence that you're hard to read. If you were really that hard to read, then mafia would leave you alive to use as a scape-goat/mislynch on later days, not shoot you on Night 1. What you're saying seems contradictory.

Your claim doesn't do anything to show or prove that you're a townie, though, or at least not until after you're elected, which I've already pointed out is a problem.

On May 28 2012 05:21 MajuGarzett wrote:

What suspicions do you have about ET?

On May 28 2012 05:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

Worst case, you lynch the guy you want to lynch, are removed from the game, town probably losing a player based on the proportion of town to scum, and scum get a free round of night actions. So, town ends up losing 4 players and the mayor role for free. How's that not that bad for town?

For the people who want to put you as the pardoner, that's just as bad. If a lyncher/assassin gets put into the role of pardoner, then expect scum to try to bribe them when one of them is about to get lynched. Something along the lines of "Pardon my lynch, and my team will shoot your target", or something like that. Again, we lose a whole cycle to the pardon, and then we're left with either a lyncher we either need to suffer through spamming in thread, or we lose a day of discussion lynching him. A pardoner lyncher can also at any point hold the lynch hostage unless we kill his target, again leading to a round of free kills.

Also, you never answered my question about why you were scared of dying on Night 1 or 2. The player list suggests you're not the highest priority target for scum, and your own insistence of being hard to read suggests scum would leave you alive as you'd be a magnet for suspicion.

Finally, I find it odd that you're trying to downplay the impact of a Lyncher/Assassin being elected rather than denying that you're one of those roles and trying to show otherwise.

On May 28 2012 05:49 kitaman27 wrote:
Lets end the discussion right now.

Toad is our pardoner.

It's the best of both worlds. It ensures we don't have a scum pardoner, which is the more dangerous of the two roles and it protects us from a mayor lyncher. If you're town toad, then great we denied the role. If not, then we don't really care if you would prefer mayor.

On May 28 2012 06:05 Sinensis wrote:


OMGUS means Oh My God U Suck, not Oh My God U Scum.

Saying half of someone's posts are "trolling or retarded [sic]" is an OMGUS.

On May 28 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:


Dammit toad wtf is with the contradiction? First he's "most likely to flip mafia" then he's "I'm not sure if he's really the best case yet."

Here's a tip, if you're gonna analyze someone and you get halfway through and realize "oh shit he's not as scummy as I thought" then do this, save your analysis in a word doc and wait and see what happens. If you continue to get bad vibes then revisit your case, if the person cleans up their act then your second guess turned out to be right. But please don't make cases like this. This case looks to me like you're testing the waters to see who else will jump on an ET lynch. This case just screams neutrality. If ET gets lynched and flips town then no one can point fingers at you, you just link them this post and say "well he looked kinda bad but I didn't think he was the best case." This is just super wishy washy but it also looks as if you're contributing by making "cases" on people. If you're gonna go after someone, then do it with conviction, don't hide behind qualifiers.

You didn't help my initial impression of you toad.

On May 28 2012 06:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also please be aware: this is exactly the same type of play that sandroba made in C9++ that Toadess cohosted. Sandroba flipped Mason because he's baus and the situation was relevant for that game...the situation is totally different here, because if I'm understanding Toad correctly, he CHOOSES who he masons with. This is huge because what if he chooses Mafia and he's town? Obviously the scum would go along with Toad's claim and "confirm" him, but imagine the implications. Toad is using the Mason mechanic, which actually WAS alignment-relevant in C9++, as a means to "confirm" him, not the other players. But that makes you put trust in who he masons with too, whether consciously or not, just by virtue of him being in contact with "modconfirmed Toad".

This role is not one that I want in possession of any additional power. I do not want Toad to be Leader or Vice-Leader. The chance for manipulation is too great.

On May 28 2012 07:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Because they could get you to do something stupid like lynch a townie or pardon a Mafia or something Toad.

You're running on a platform of independence, right? That means you have to be held accountable for your actions, but here's the problem: if you're in contact with a really good Mafia player like Wiggles or Forumite (<3) who end up being mafia and they convince you to do something like pardon a lynch of a mafia, you can't like - backpedal and say "Well guys, really I was talked into it by XYZ" because the whole point of what you're saying is that you want to be held accountable yourself. So we lynch you and you're what, a Mason? So now what?

No, I'd rather just not even take the chance. Next game bro.

On May 28 2012 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
I disagree, and we'll leave it at that. I'm well aware of how our arguments balloon.

I still want town to not vote for Toad, based on the risk involved alone. I want a pardoner who we can lynch if he uses the power improperly. It's a tool that should be used if the situation arises and I think denying it from Town is borne of the same paranoia I'm sure to be accused of for thinking Toad will be manipulated.

==

On May 28 2012 07:39 jaj22 wrote:

Ugh, AC flashbacks.

I'm not really feeling this ET case. The main arcs seem to be:
1. Manipulating newbies by... promising to listen to them and not just dismiss them as useless? Fine by me. Wish everyone did that.
2. Overstating the importance of the elected roles. True, but I'm not sure how this is a scumtell.
3. Not having much in his filter apart from mayor-agenda. Yeah, because it's all from three hours into the game.

Not that ET's filter is squeaky clean (the part where he draws BH away from strongandbig is particularly interesting), but as you should have noticed, it's tough to campaign without doing anything suspicious.

On that note, I'd be surprised if scum made much of an attempt at the elections. Without bodyguards, the risk (from campaign scrutiny) surely outweighs the reward. I think only the most ballsy scum players would bother.

On May 28 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:

1) is not manipulative toward newbies but towards everyone else.
2) well It's a minor point if he keeps ignoring contribution and talks about non-isssues instead
3) yeah agree

About the last phrase: I'd say we should definitly look into people running for election without having a serious chance or without taking it serious. BH and Sinensis come to my mind on that matter because noone is going to vote something like that although it looks "brave" to troll like that because they'll get heat for that either way. So I agree, but if someone is in that grey zone of "I am running for mayor" but isn't really that would be something to look for as well.

On the first phrase: What alignment did I have in AC? :p

On May 28 2012 07:52 grush57 wrote:
If you guys are unsure about Toad being pardoner, I'm fine with being it. I won't use the "POWAH."

On May 28 2012 08:01 grush57 wrote:


Yeah, but your supposed to be mason. If your lyncher, then it would be perfect for town. However, you claimed Mason day1 for no reason at all >.<.

On May 28 2012 08:10 grush57 wrote:


1. I said if you didn't trust Toad I'm fine with being pardoner.
2. You should obviously trust a townie, but we don't know that for sure for your case because you have been anti-town in several of your posts and claiming Mason for no good reason.
3. No.
4.Yeah obviously it has nothing to do with possibility you vote the VP.

On May 28 2012 08:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Don't dip into wifom like that, it doesn't suit you.

Also, why is being mayor so important? If you really are town you should understand why some people may be hesitant to elect you, but at the same time willing to give you pardoner since (as you correctly state), you should be able to confirm yourself by day two. We've pretty much established that pardoner is a dangerous role, dumping it off to you makes a lot of sense because we can then know for sure by day two whether you're scum or not. Your continued pursuit of the mayor role is odd.

On May 28 2012 08:15 Toadesstern wrote:

You just said if I am a lyncher I am perfect for the role, not that I want it but that's what you said.
You just said that if I'm a town mason that's awesome as well because I'm town.

Those are the 2 options right now. Either way I'm good for the spot, the only thing that makes me bad for that thing is the fact that I don't want it lol.

Do you honestly think a mafia would claim like that? Sure I could understand a lyncher but a mafia? or a SK?
What do I do once people see I survived more than 1 cycle. Be all like "looool guyses, I'm modconfirmed townie but I chose not to talk to someone" ?
And no I can't be RB'ed.

On May 28 2012 08:43 grush57 wrote:

Okay you want to take a mafia out, do you have any scumreads yet? Why do u want to be mayor so bad? You wouldn't get shot(most likely) if you didn't claim Mason. It only makes sense if you are a lyncher.

On May 28 2012 08:55 grush57 wrote:



YES DO SO NOW!

You're letting the mafia win.



For all we know all 5 mafia could be in those 8.

;(

On May 28 2012 08:58 grush57 wrote:


Sorry, last game I played was 5 mafia. And before you guys get on my case for an OMGUS you scum slipped, I said all 5, not 5 others.

On May 28 2012 09:06 grush57 wrote:


By saying a typo it refers to me being anti-town?

On May 28 2012 09:17 grush57 wrote:

So you want a good scumhunting vet to get shot?

On May 28 2012 10:12 austinmcc wrote:


I guess jaj not necessarily drawing any conclusions, but he mentioned it and then Toad dismissed the idea that it was manipulative towards newbies.

On May 28 2012 21:49 Forumite wrote:
You and supersoft have a weird love/hate relationship in this game. If you are trying to distance yourself from a scumbuddy, then you are doing it wrong.

Just a thought on Toades claiming Mason as scum.
D2, player X claims to have been masoned, noone have yet to flip so noone is confirmed.
If Toades flip Scum, then X is Scum
If Toades flip Mason, then we know nothing about X
If X flip Scum, then we know nothing about Toades
If X flip Town, THEN and only then is Toades confirmed Mason

Usually masons who are confirmed for eachother are not confirmed for town until either dies. In this case we can only confirm Toades as town without killing him is if his masonbuddy flips, AND flips as town (which isn´t a guarantee), otherwise we can´t really take anything away from Toades claim. Mason can´t be used as a tool to confirm him, not until later and not unless the right person flips the right way, so the best use of the mason power should be for secret information. Toades didn´t try to use it for that, instead he tries to pass off his claim as a confirmation that he´s town, which it isn´t. It doesn´t makes sense. I don´t know what he is, but I don´t want him as Mayor.

But, but, sigh...

##Unvote: strongandbig

Why should he stick up for himself? You want to lynch him without a case, so there´s really no reason for him to defend himself.

I liked ETs play, and either him or Wiggles would make a fine Mayor.

##Vote: EchelonTee

On May 28 2012 22:39 Forumite wrote:
@Toades
Supersoft was the first to call you out on your "I´m Running"-post, and you were arguing for a while, now for some reason SS doesn´t seem to think you are scum anymore, but you call him scum, which I find surprising for its timing.

On May 28 2012 22:55 supersoft wrote:
uhm... forumite you're town right?

On May 29 2012 00:00 Forumite wrote:

Thanks, but I prefer not taking a town leader position, not that I´m a likely candidate in the first place.

On that note; You are suspicious of ET, what do you think about Wiggles? Have you thought of a good D1-lynch yet?

On May 29 2012 01:40 papapanda wrote:
Regarding Toad(once again):
For everyone: What is the best method now to pick the next mason? I am thinking letting Toad play out his cards by himself might be the next best option, as he seem to have some withheld information. The other choice is for the town to decide someone for him to invite, but this increases some randomness and can be potentially affect by mafia. Toad, thought?

On May 29 2012 03:12 Hassybaby wrote:
Sorry guys, my friends and I have been enjoying the weather which has actually been good in England for a change (blah blah rain blah blah) and GSTL is distracting too.

I'd love to give my opinions about the cases, if someone can possibly point towards who the main guys are? I can see Wiggles and ET are options for leader, is there anyone else? And are there any other guys besides Toad for vice?

On May 29 2012 03:29 papapanda wrote:
Mmk
Hassy:
The VP and P elections are NOT separate. Meaning the second most vote automatically becomes VP.

Toad:
Like I said, I think you picking your partner(if that is how it works) is the best move from here.
But if you really ARE the mason, why would mafia kill the person who confirms you because only on his flip can the town know you are mod-confirmed?
I think I have a guess as to what you are doing but we can only wait and see.

Is the voting due in 5 hours?

On May 29 2012 03:51 strongandbig wrote:
Time for a little bit of analysis before I have to get back to work.

My Finger of Suspicion points currently at supersoft.



This is not a good town attitude. As has been discussed, these roles are super important for town - each of them can pretty much fuck up an entire cycle by denying town info, plus there's the mayor's double vote.



I <3 forumite and I agree that he's probably town, but this is a terrible plan. If everyone just votes for their "strongest town read" instead of for one of the actual candidates, then the votes are likely to get very spread out giving mafia a good chance to swing the election by coordinating, either to get one of them elected or just to avoid getting someone they're scared of or who's on the right track elected.



Lol. Kenpachi'd by the kenpachi copycat.

And in case anyone doesn't think this works, I got caught by BC with it in SS mafia. It does work, probably because claiming VT is suspicious and weird behavior that scum think they can gain towncred for by calling out.



This also is a bit of an odd post. Why does the fact that Toad claimed mason change SS's impression of his townplay? SS had some really strong reads on Toad, saying things like "I know your townplay." More importantly, SS's points on Toad were 100% right - saying "elect me because I'm unreadable" and "I will magically kill scum on day 1" like toad did are super suspicious! I tend to agree with many people that this leans towards Toad being third party. So why did SS back off here?

Also, how did we "force" Toad to claim anything? There was literally no reason for Toad to claim some kind of nonstandard target-changing un-roleblockable "manipulation-proof" (wtf?) mason role, as part of his campaign for Mayor.

This reads to me either like SS and Toad are scum buddies trying to distance themselves and got too far, or (more likely) like a scum SS saw an opportunity to gain town cred by making an actual good case on a player who was not being towny but wasn't on his scum team, then backing off when he realized that the presence of third parties like a lyncher hurts town and probably helps scum.

On May 29 2012 04:48 EchelonTee wrote:
Hmm... I doubt toad is scum, or 3rd party TBH. While I might not agree with his claim, and obviously I disagree with the whole "i want ET dead" thing, I don't think he's scum.

Toad, do you target your mason partner at night or at the start of the day?

On May 29 2012 05:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Dude I totally didn't even realize that BH was gunning for grush too! /facepalm

Okay, yeah...that makes sense then. Like, if he had been the first to push a grush policy lynch then that would be one thing: proposing a weak policy lynch that's guaranteed to be shot down is easy as fuck for scum...but wholly unnecessary if someone has already run on the platform of killing grush.

On May 29 2012 05:22 EchelonTee wrote:
Something to note; almost all people have said "I would be down with killing Sinensis!". Some have said the same about SnB, but many have said "I am sort of suspicious, but want more info first".

Both bandwagons, but different in tone.

On May 29 2012 07:52 supersoft wrote:
by the way, I really don't understand, why you people never listen to me.
How can't you see that zealos is scum?! good god, that's so bitter.

On May 29 2012 09:07 Toadesstern wrote:
Sup. I think I'm going to use a random number generator to get the first "target". No matter if 3rd party, mafia or town the guy has to claim the mason thing if he wants to survive the day after seeing me flip and surely catching scum in a QT isn't bad either.

That being sad I want protection this night as I am HIGHLY likely to be shot. I don't care if it's a medic or a jailer because again, I'm roleblock-immune.
There's hardly a better place to put your protection this night.

If you want to make use of me protect me. I will be confirmed within 24 hours.

On May 29 2012 09:09 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

dumb. Mason someone you think is town.

On May 29 2012 09:17 Forumite wrote:
Yeah, I know, it´s just that when there were replacements in Holy Roman, it was mostly to make sure no scum had to be modkilled.

Seriously Kita, shape up.

Aren´t you overestimating your importance for town? I want you to survive the night and think you are a good target, but it´s up to the medics/jailors.

I suggest any jailors heavily consider protecting Toades, while medics find other targets, that should draw enough, but not too much, protection on Toades.

On May 29 2012 20:14 Forumite wrote:
Toades, I´m not sure if this is a dumb post or a very, very smart one.

Medics, protect Wiggles if you feel like it.

I don´t really blame Wiggles for lynching sinensis, Kita would have been a good candidate, but otherwise there wasn´t much alternative. A Zealos lynch might have been better but it never got much support, I guess it was too late in the day. There was very little discussion about other lynches, most people seemed fine with sinensis.

On May 30 2012 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why is Wiggles being put up for lynch again? I think I missed something X(

On May 30 2012 02:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Toad if he had gone with another target who flipped town, are you sure you wouldn't be crucifyinghim now for "not lynching who he said he'd lynch"? I don't think adhering to his campaign platform is particularly suspicious myself, and apart from the mislynch Wiggle has been one of my stronger townreads...I don't get wanting him dead because he lyncher Sin.

On May 30 2012 03:05 strongandbig wrote:


As long as we're talking about super soft, I still haven't heard any response other than "wrong" explaining how this plan is not super scummy.

On May 30 2012 04:03 supersoft wrote:


why not?

On May 30 2012 04:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Superstar have you even looked at Kita? I think he's a better vigi target than either of wiggle or MZ if we are talking about vigging vets all of a sudden. Whatever happened to shooting into lurkers anyway?

On May 30 2012 04:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Catching up right now.

If anyone needs anything specific let me know, but it'll be a couple hours at the least before I can respond.

On May 29 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm not tunneling I just want to to be clear about this because you haven't for the last 24 hours.

If you're lynching S&B I am kinda okay to ignore you for the time being and vote you.
However a Kita lynch would give you my eternal love :3

On May 30 2012 05:26 Forumite wrote:
I´m fine with you calling it afterwards, if your target dies then it doesn´t matter if you call it or not.

Toad
is the new Game of Thrones episode already out? Can't find it

Toad
Ok I don't know if I survive this night so I make this my diary for the guy I am going to mason [...] so that he can post anything he wants in the thread after my death if he feels it's importan:
[...]
2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250&currentpage=39#773
That post I did was obviously bullshit. Yeah I don't have a strong townread on wiggles but the fact that he ended up being mayor probably makes him town. [... super secret part here! ... ]
However I am no medic and getting people to doubt him this night is a nice thing because it makes mafia less likely to shoot him. Kind of a beggars way to medic someone. And well I have a mason partner so I have all the proof I need to tell people that was bullshit on purpose the next day and just yell "shut the fuck up, that was on purpose" :3

Toad
Diary entry #2
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250&currentpage=41#804

I think I'm overdoing it kind of. I really fear VE is going to answer that one when I really hope he shuts up. I don't want to have to tell people that my intention is to make mafia think wiggles is a bad target, as in they don't want to shoot him him and more importantly they maybe don't want to shoot me that way because I am a confirmed townie who is (probably) pushing the wrong target and hopefully they don't realize it's on purpose. But if VE answers that one a shitstorm is comming.

[... Super secret part here! ...].

Toad
Diary entry #3
Scumbag Supersoft. I pm'ed the host that MZ would be my mason partner and Supersoft tells people to shoot him. Now I need to change my target.

Toad
Diary entry #3
Scumbag Supersoft. I pm'ed the host that MZ would be my mason partner and Supersoft tells people to shoot him. Now I need to change my target.

On May 30 2012 08:10 Toadesstern wrote:
nah wait it's really weird I'll explain why I said luckily I posted my logs. Here's what happened, the quote is from the last page from BEFORE deadline:


I wanted to mason MZ and pm'ed both hosts to do so
Supersoft told people to shoot him so I changed my target to BH as I thought both are slightly townish and won't be shot.
So I figured I masoned BH and that's why I posted BH has a swollen ball.
Now I got a PM that MZ is my mason So I kicked him in the balls

On May 30 2012 08:16 Blazinghand wrote:
I don't understand what you are telling me, but if I receive a PM to an mason QT I will notify the thread.

On May 30 2012 08:17 Toadesstern wrote:

I want you to notify the thread that you did not end up getting a PM after waiting a couple of hours because you are not my mason partner.
I THOUGHT you were my mason partner before the deadline but was wrong...

On May 30 2012 08:19 Blazinghand wrote:
but... I already notified the thread I didn't get a PM. should I do so again?

"guys I didn't get a PM"

or are you like backtracking the fact that you masoned me? wtf toad im so confused ;_;

On May 30 2012 08:22 Blazinghand wrote:
oh. you changed it right at the deadline, but that was too late? I see

On May 30 2012 08:23 Blazinghand wrote:


See I'm feeling kinda suspicious here and I don't really know what's going on. Cause a good 13 minutes before the deadline, you WERE in the thread....



So you made your change then, but it didn't count?

On May 30 2012 08:44 jaj22 wrote:
With watcher and tracker as possible roles, it's likely that mafia needed to nominate players to carry out nightkills, right?

Doesn't that make VE's roleblock + Forumite doublestack claim a bit suspicious? Doublestacking doesn't seem a likely option given the state of the town. What if VE was carrying out a nightkill and needed to seed an excuse?

On May 30 2012 08:58 Toadesstern wrote:
maybe they thought I am going to be uber-protected or I am a lyncher. Thanks wiggles I guess

On May 30 2012 09:00 strongandbig wrote:
Could Mattchew have been a vig shot? MZ and Foru make way more sense as scum kills but Mattchew doesn't make any sense there.

On May 30 2012 09:21 strongandbig wrote:
Ummmm, mattchew - if I was a vig I would've shot you. It doesn't take secret scum knowledge to realize that it would be retarded for scum to shoot you after how you posted d1 and n1.

On May 30 2012 09:23 strongandbig wrote:
@toad - meapak is relatively vet-ish, was posting a lot and looking pretty townie. How is that not a better scum target than mattchew, who is vet-ish but posted almost not at all and was super scummy?

On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.

We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum.

##vote Gambitx32

On May 30 2012 22:26 supersoft wrote:


don't act so mysterous...

On May 30 2012 23:02 strongandbig wrote:
@probulous:
Here's the reason I wanted toad to say something about this claimed anti manipulation power. When you're dealing with a nonstandard power, and when you're dealing with greymist, role does not always equal alignment.

Since I have trouble imagining how this power would work, I have trouble believing it. It still feels to me like toad was lying to get elected mayor.

That said, I understand that revealing how it works could make it less useful if toad at some point masons a scum or someone he thinks is scummy. So what about this: toad, when you get a mason buddy who you're like 100% sure is town, could you explain this thing to them and they could tell the thread whether they believe you?

Also, toad, why did you claim when you did? If the answer is just "to become mayor," then why did you want to be mayor so badly?

On May 30 2012 23:10 strongandbig wrote:
Cause unless we hear otherwise, I'm assuming we could have variant alignment as well as variant abilities.

On May 30 2012 23:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh someone asked: As already pointed out like 10 times I would have lynched kita or VE. VE only if I felt particularly bold because he's giving me a townVIBE

On May 30 2012 23:52 Ange777 wrote:
Toad, I tried to go back to see your reasoning for a kita lynch but couldn't find anything. Could you please explain?

On May 31 2012 00:47 marvellosity wrote:


Well, if you want to lynch kita, "meta reasons i won't go into" isn't going to provide a particularly compelling case, dear.

On May 31 2012 00:49 marvellosity wrote:


No, because being town does not make you correct. Newb logic fail...

On May 31 2012 01:31 VisceraEyes wrote:


Like, you're "confirmed town" right? I get why we don't lynch you...but why not lynch Wiggles or Bugs? Wiggles because he has an extra vote and looks town right? Bugs? Because he got hit? Did we completely forget that I claimed RB? And furthermore, we can rule out "jailed" because it appears Bugs was jailed right? So that leaves Roleblocked in the standard sense and that means that I can't be scum.

I don't have a compelling reason why I'm not 3rd party, aside from the fact that we've killed one already and like I said, multiple 3rd parties in a Normal game doesn't seem possible.

So again: why in the piss am I even being considered for lynch by anyone but Kitaman?

On May 31 2012 01:39 VisceraEyes wrote:


But Wiggles is more of a vet than Bugs! What are you even going on about?

On May 31 2012 01:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh I see what you're saying.

nvm, you're carrying on Ken's work. He's better at it than you. Carry on if you want I guess.

On May 31 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kita are you town?

I mean, obviously I have doubts...but I was unable to make a cohesive case against you last night when I tried. I think you're playing a pretty manipulative game, but not necessarily scummy after trying to build a case. I'm willing to work with you if you're town.

On May 31 2012 02:40 Hassybaby wrote:


But I haven't played since...well last night with BH actually.

I'm still following the thread but I don't exactly have too much to add except this feels like LIII all over again. The idea of lynching VE based on balance is just weird to me. While the thinking is sort of understandable, you're not taking into account that Grey rushed out the role PMs. Plus he fact that they could just be assholes and stack one side more.

On May 31 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kita are you town?

I mean, obviously I have doubts...but I was unable to make a cohesive case against you last night when I tried. I think you're playing a pretty manipulative game, but not necessarily scummy after trying to build a case. I'm willing to work with you if you're town.

On May 30 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, cool...Toad town...

......but why? Why would scum leave a soon-to-be-confirmed-town alive?

On May 30 2012 09:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
He might have been a blue-snipe. Not running for office and lurking into oblivion speak to me of scum aiming for blue....that's the only thing I can imagine is up with the Mattchew shot....but again...WHY NOT SHOOT THE SOON-TO-BE-CONFIRMED-TOWN?

On May 31 2012 03:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

Why? Just saying that you don't like the lynch doesn't help us determine if the lynch is actually bad. If you don't want to see him lynched, you'll have to explain why.

On May 31 2012 04:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
The reason G32 is better than a phagga lynch is cause phagga didn't vote.

Most scum will vote just to stay alive but townies who go legitimately inactive won't usually vote without actually coming back to play.

On May 31 2012 06:00 Toadesstern wrote:
I don't like the fact that you have been afk all the time today when people suggested to lynch gambit, not doing a thing at all.
And now that you're an option as well you get in here telling people you're done and will have a look over things. What time is it in the UK right now? 22:00? :p

On May 31 2012 06:04 EchelonTee wrote:
wait, I'm up for lynch? :o

On May 31 2012 06:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
The more I think about it the less that makes sense Toad. Think about it - two phone-booth circles going on simultaneously? I can't even wrap my brain around the implications, and if that's the case I'm going to literally eat my hat.

On May 31 2012 06:32 VisceraEyes wrote:


How many games (Outside Responsibility) have you heard of that include different variations of the same role? I mean, is it possible? Yeah...obviously anything is possible. Probable? Meh. MEH. I don't think so sir.

I think Gambit is a fine choice...Bugs, don't get buyer's remorse. Gambit is a fine lynch.

On May 31 2012 06:31 EchelonTee wrote:

^ tons of us weren't in that game.

What's differnece btwn mason and mason recruiter?

I can't honestly believe that all of: Wiggles, Kita, MZ, VE, BH, WBG are ALL town. That would be like. OP.

If I can't build a case on any of you, then I would support lynching one of Manason, G32, or Zealos, but I feel like going for a controversial lynch would yield bigger dividends. Higher risk, higher reward.

On May 31 2012 06:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
I take back what I said earlier about the mason thing:



I suppose it is possible. Toad you need to be clear about this. Are you a mason recruiter or just a mason? If you die do you leave behind a QT that the people you add can use?

Also on SnB: I agree with what ET just said, I don't think SnB's attitude is indicative of him being scum. Mattchew you're just tunneled too far IMO. We could be wrong but I don't think a mafia SnB would be as bold about his opinions as he has been so far. That's a pretty rare characteristic even among experienced scum.

On May 31 2012 07:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Toad do you think I'm scum? Really? Like, deep down? Because every time you mention me as a lynch candidate a little piece of my soul dies, so I wanted to be sure it wasn't all in vain.

3) VE is looking weird to me and I don't know what to make of him because I think he's town. Usually what happens between VE and myself is something like this: I get in the game, yell at him "you mafia bro" the first day because he does some incredible weird shit like fakeclaiming dayvig to win an election and I call him out on that shit not knowing if it has a town or mafia agenda. And during the next 24 or 48 hours of calling him mafia, making him reply to what I post no matter if honest or bullshit I figure him out. This game however I straight up had a townread on him, which is weird lol

On May 31 2012 08:25 supersoft wrote:


I know. But far too late. At this point of times there was no denyal that Zealos looked bad. It was just obvious. He really looked bad. However VE just mentions that fact but doesnt do anything about it.+
Moreover:

GambitX32 - (4)
Blazinghand
VisceraEyes
Mr. Wiggles
Ange777

Zealos - (3)
marvellosity
Toadesstern
wherebugsgo

Dont you think it's remarkable that he refused to switch so far? even after we got toad claiming that Gamb is mason... and even wbg switched on zeal.

On May 31 2012 08:54 Probulous wrote:


You can do better than that. If you want my vote, convince me.

On May 31 2012 09:03 Probulous wrote:


Face meet palm



How exactly is asking how you "knew" that hit PMs were late when you weren't hit, role fishing?

That being said I'm fairly convinced the vets are posting no matter of alignment and the not-vets are hiding between lurkers if they're mafia, which makes it so hard to figure them out.

7. This game follows Extended Majority Lynch. In order for a player to be lynched, they must reach majority before the deadline, or else a no lynch will take place. Majority is #Players alive / 2 Rounded up.

On May 31 2012 17:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
I like how everyone's all "let's lynch zealos gogogogogo lynch zealos gg"

and then Meapak wants to kill VE so everyone switches and is all like "let's go lynch VE gogogogogo"

If VE turns out to be town then I'm going to be fairly suspicious of those people who derailed the zealos lynch by moving their votes.

Basically anyone whose name is not Meapak, since he's pretty much confirmed town.

For now though my vote stays on Zealos since I'm more confident that he's scum. Based on VE's past few games I can't say I have what it takes to get a proper read on him.

On May 31 2012 19:35 supersoft wrote:


wrong. Get VE to shoot wiggles.
VE wanted to lynch gambit. I really think gambit is a dead end.

On May 31 2012 21:26 Hyaach wrote:
we can WIFOM with VE after he shot someone we want. and doublestacked is actually good. That's 1 less death a night. How does that not benefit town?

(0:16)
"We lynch mafia day one"
is what your tatto says
"lynch mafia until they're gone"
that used to be your ways

(0:27)
It's called a No-lynch and we really just can't.
You are considering it
and you don't want to talk about it but it's what you really want.

(0:39)
But is that still mafia?
Doubting yoursell until I frown
Is that still mafia?
Considering everyone to be town
That's about as brilliant
as a two year old infant
Is that still mafia? - I don't think so

(1:12)
You used to be involved
when we lynched into a vet
this time you just proclaimed
we shouldn't take the bet

(1:23)
Since this game started you stopped caring about a lynch for that matter
You are claiming to vote a nobody to make sure the votes are scatter'd

(1:35)
But is that still mafia?
Doubting yourself until I frown
Is that still mafia?
Considering everyone to be town
I don't want to spoil the party
but do we really need to screw this
Is that still mafia? - nope

(1:55)
You're not willing to lynch anyone
you're behaving a little bit
like everyone's in this zone
that's protecting shit out of everyone
(2:07)
That's not going to win the game
That's really such a shame
because you're the one to blame
I'm not allowed to flame


(2:16)
(Because)
is that still mafia?
Doubting yoursell until I frown
Is that still mafia?
Considering everyone to be town
you should just ask yourself
what people postgame will say themselv'
Is that still mafia? - I don't think so