EPT##Vote Nomination
Pick Your Power: Redux
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slOosh
3291 Posts
##Vote Nomination | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 10 2012 03:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Wait do we get the numbers people PM'ed as well? I actually want to see how other people picked. Probably not, all the other PYP only show the order, not the numbers picked. | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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On May 15 2012 07:37 hiro protagonist wrote: This is only a problem if the first lynch is vanilla. If thats the case, we simply have the med/jailkeeper protect the cpr/janitor overnight. copycat should not be a problem. Im off to work, should be back later tonight. Don't meds and jailors only have 1 KP protect each? As in, if mafia stack their mafia shot and use say a vig shot it will kill the person unless they have multiple protective roles on them. Or the angry vig who will blast through anything. I guess witch could be a decent counter measure but I feel like it is a waste of its potential role power, which is getting a list of who is dying and being able to save one of them (higher chance of save because smaller pool of people to save from). | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 15 2012 07:39 Misder wrote: I would rather have RB be used for a more useful purpose than just defending him(her)self. RB differs from CPR and Janitor in that those two roles cannot be used as town whereas RB can be. Also, with your plan, we still cannot guarantee that the first person has CPR, which means that mafia can easily transfer it down to a scumbuddy without us knowing, which is extremely dangerous. I would rather have vanilla townies than risk having mafia have 2 KP. So say we guarantee that the roles are limited to the top 4 picks. I still don't see how it prevents mafia from blatantly using CPR - how will we be able to attribute night kills to specific roles? | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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Now as for Paqman's responses, I've cut out key lines that I thought were pertinent (rather than quote whole thing and bold because it is a bulky post). On May 17 2012 12:44 PaqMan wrote: Am I honestly getting scolded for asking questions about plans that were discussed and settled on while I was absent? Am I really getting scolded for thinking ahead? -not scared, didn't have anything useful to contribute to plans that everyone already agreed on. -I dont care? I lost the first mafia game I've played in over 6 months. My 2nd game is ongoing. And I'm definitely not down to start my 3rd with getting mislynched D1 because a vet pushed me for asking questions. TL;DR I'm town and you're wrong. If those are your only points for thinking I'm scum you need to do better than that. This is a misrepresentation of Qatol's case. He makes out the accusation against him asking questions when in fact it is about the change in his posting style. And the defiant tone seems out of place - where does he find the confidence to basically taunt a vet into proving that he is scum? Unnatural. ##Vote: Paqman | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Let's figure out this D1 lynch - PaqMan: yay or nay? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Marv claims to pick mason Sentinel claims to pick janitor, fail and get vt zelblade claims to pick ***, fail and get vt I'm guessing that zelblade probably picked risk's role. There is no sense in revealing what role risk has as it won't solve the problem. We know he didn't pick janitor because the thread is shot if this is just a ploy and I doubt he would think it good enough to keep going and letting town divebomb into nothingness. I'm going with Sentinel as traitor for this one - it buys the 1 man down scum team time to regroup / plan. If sentinel is town then risk would be a liar but that conflicts with the zelblade clash unless he picked mason (which I doubt but hey, marv picked mason so anything goes). Even if zelblade were to claim picking mason and the liar between risk and sentinel, risk's in-your-face I do what I want demeanor is more townlike than Sentinel's cautiousness (I'd be screaming my head off if I believed marv's mason claim which would mean risk picked janitor and lied about it) ##Vote [UoN]Sentinel | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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Is it because the mafia are likely in the lower drafts so they have a harder time lying? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I was gonna go after PaqMan after the Sentinel mess because it seemed like it was created as a distraction from the lynch, but it backfired for them and now there is only 1 scum and 1 Sk we have to deal with. The most surprising thing for me is the lack of janitor use - I would presume that most KP would be fired night 1 and a janitor use night 1 would be of most effect as most people dead = most information denied, but I suppose there could have been anticipation of a witch / angry vig which would make night 2 a better time to use it. I'll be back in a few hours to post more thoroughly. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Sorry for the delayed post - (insert excuse). I've reread the thread and here are my thoughts and conclusions (they might be a bit jumbled, its kinda late and I'm sleepy). First are the scum team role picks combined with these posts by sentinel: On May 17 2012 11:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Why would you kill one of your own just so the copycat can get the same role? Makes no sense. On May 17 2012 23:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I did not get janitor  I would say that if scum have a copycat there are prolly more scums in the lower end of the draft. If they were high up they'd rather go for guaranteed power roles like decon did or try to deny town of powers. Either way I'd reckon the copycat is in the bottom ten of the draft. Scum team drafted CPR doc, JOAT and two more roles, PaqMan bouncing and getting vanilla. He could have bounced off So in the post that Sentinel makes (the one that starts a huge mess, averts attention from PaqMan but backfires and gets himself lynched), he is interested in bringing up the copycat role. However, during draft discussion, the only few people who bring up the copy cat are (sort of off the top of my head), Barundar and slOosh (me), with a few people discussing it, none of which are scum team members. Thus I think that Sentinel is pushing the idea that scum team could have a copy cat and starts hypothesizing about that, which leads me to my conclusion that the 4th member is not a copy cat, but rather a janitor (or vanilla if the SK picked janitor for some reason). The scum team plan would revolve around just that - picking up lots of KP, shooting many people and covering up valuable info. I would say that it is very possible that the copy cat role is not even in the game (evidenced by lack of additional KP, scum or SK would be auto using it every round). Second point: PaqMan voted risk after there were already 10 votes (majority requirement) on Sentinel, which leads me to believe that either scum team is very disorganized (which is possible) or that they did not plan on bussing him i.e. the final scum also voted for risk. Third point: .... Sorry guys its getting late and I gotta wrap this up, and I'll finish it tomorrow. But it concludes with me saying Palmar and Sandroba are very suspicious. Sandroba because his dealings with the sentinel fiasco are really weird (such bringing up why Palmar is pardoner and not bothering to comment on Sentinel until way later), his traitor idea, his no lynch stance, just really weird stuff. Palmar is from process of elimination and vote analysis (i.e. he voted risk and everyone else looks more townie to me than him). Guessing that Sandroba is the SK and Palmar is scum because of voting but the traitor role is possible for them I suppose. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 21 2012 14:37 Qatol wrote: If the 4th member is a Janitor, how do they get around marvellosity's 50/50 chance of picking the role? Mmm, forgot to consider that point. I guess this kind of speculation is just that unless we do some mass roleclaim / get more role confirmations. So I'll put that aside, for I guess its only 1 of many possible scum team role picks (I still think they chose with some idea of team synergy and the 2KP roles indicate the gist of their theme. Janitor was the first thought to pop up and I forgot to incorporate hindsight.) Where does marvellosity's townie's claim that the politician role was taken in front of him (and the fact that nobody stepped up and claimed getting it, which is why we think it's in SK hands - mafia would have saved Sentinel with it) fit in? Hmm. It's weird because I think I hold a different train of thought from some people in how the SK would play - I'm under the impression that SK want mafia members alive and will initially play pro-mafia because it gives him scapegoats to draw suspicion away from him and also aids in speeding up the game. However since the politician has not been claimed by town and is therefore in anti-town hands, it would make sense that perhaps PaqMan voted risk (up to 8, hoping that the SK would swing the vote to tie 9-9 (your vote count is off Qatol, I was confused at how we lynched with 9. You left out talismania). I would agree that Barundar's comment on wanting to say less is indeed suspicious, because the first instinct I had when people started throwing out my name was to clear it. But then wouldn't scum want to do that? Or SK? So I'm confused. But that might be the intended effect of that play. We see that early on he does push the Mattchew could be scum idea, as well as the general theme of tying up roles / rolepicks, which does play into the SK motif. Actually I now also want to discuss how the SK is probably playing to get an idea of what to look for. I'm thinking making people waste rolepicks on the denial plan as well as role powers to obsess on stopping cpr or whatever fits the bill. No doubt SK will act in the interests of keeping the last mafia alive for the help in KP, but wouldn't he have started doing that with the day-vig shot? That's what I would do, let mafia and town kill each other, helping the weaker side. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
As for the 1 missing KP, if people aren't notified of saves then it is likely that mafia shot SK and they are in understanding that they need each other to win. Next day we need a majority lynch by clear margin lest we run into this "politician swapped my vote" shenanigans. What are people's thoughts on the mass roleclaim at day? I'm not sure because people expressed reservations but it may just have been for the night time and not the plan in itself. Pros are we might catch people with contradictions and it puts immense pressure on the anti town players, but cons are if they survive then they have a clearer idea of how to shoot (maybe?). | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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I was typing up a whole explanation but I realized it doesn't really help us find the anti-town players so I'll just say that my play here probably looks much more like my play in TL Mafia LI, where I was shot N1 as a blue suspect (due to thread presence drop). I'm always hungry for direction and am not really that confident in giving it myself in new situations (in LI it was due to the sheer size, this game is due to PYP aspect), thus the blatant sheeping on my town read. Nevertheless, I ease into games and as more time passes no doubt you will see more activity / discussion and whatnot from me. Night Kills N1: Talismania the witch and PaqMan (vanilla) died. There is 1 unaccounted KP, most likely explained by scum shooting the SK, as no one has claimed the shot, indicating that either Talismania did not use his power or chose not to give the potion after seeing the death list. N2: Bluelightz died and Zephirdd claimed the second shot. Conclusion: The last mafia knows the identity of the SK and will no doubt want him alive to help whittle down town numbers. There is no janitor in the game as N1 and N2 are the most optimal uses of it. Along those lines a copycat CPR is highly unlikely as the only way to attribute the lack of KP is that both scum and SK chose the same kill target two days in a row. Additional side note: I don't think people have given Bluelight's case on Barundar as much consideration as it deserves. He is the role-cop and no doubt he would have utilized his check on someone he found suspicious, and a good portion of N1 discussions were centered around Barundar. Role Claim I am actually very eager to role claim. I will however hold back because of the tiered system, plus my claim is worth some discussion and would not like clashes / misdirection to occur in the thread. At this point in the game, the unknowns are slOosh (me), Misder, Barundar and hiro's role claims. Everyone else has claimed something (whether they are lying or not is a different point). Pre-edit: saw the thread and yea I guess I'll just claim in the next post I make. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I checked Palmar N2. Results: Same. Conclusion: With SK having the probable role of politician, Palmar's pardoner (and therefore not godfather nor traitor) claim, and the inability for the framer to frame the self, combined with the high unlikeliness of the traitor (if one exists) 1 shot framing Palmar that exact moment, my check has really high fidelity. Therefore, Palmar is town. Remarks: I was eager to claim because 1) My role choice would clear my name somewhat. Why would mafia choose parity cop. I guess SK might choose it to determine mafia team, but unlikely. 2) It would reveal an investigation on a known strong town vet (Palmar), helping us find the anti-town by process of elimination 3) No doubt I will now be considered as a potential hit target, which pressures the anti-town because while they want to kill roles that could really screw them over, they also want to keep potential mislynches alive, and no doubt I am one of them (maybe not this cycle but potential is there). | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 23 2012 03:10 Misder wrote: I'm roleblocker (obviously blocked Palmar N1 and hiro N2). To SlOosh. Can you explain your roleblocks? | ||
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slOosh
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On May 23 2012 03:23 Misder wrote: You have the night kills wrong. Zephirdd claimed the third hit on N1; we are still missing a KP for N2. Ok, then just shift the shot on SK to N2. Could you answer my question to the reasonings to your roleblocks, as well as why the error on the night kill was the only thing you found worth mentioning? | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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We currently have a vig shot, parity investigation, roleblock, jailkeep and pardon (not that we need it) at town's disposal assuming no liars. We can use them at our discretion and if something falls through whoever is responsible will be lynched. I'm thinking that lynching SK is much easier than killing him at night, which is why I lean the lynch SK vig mafia route, but that of course depends wholly on Barundar's claim and consequently what we decide as town lynch. I personally think Hiro's claim is really safe whilst Misder's claim has been both confirmed and reasonable explanation has been given for his actions. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 23 2012 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote: Im no longer confident in my case on zelblade I need to re-read things.Barundar needs to claim in order to clear things up. Im feeling good about calling Misder town seeing how he and PacMan chose the same numbers, and PacMan ended up VS. He might have tried for roleblocker. Last scum is one of zelblade, Zephirdd, or toad. likely to be SK are sandroba and Barundar. Hold up. Even though you are no longer confident in your case you still find him scummy enough to put him into a scum list? Please explain how you came to this conclusion and aren't merely following town sentiment. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/atUfi.png) (Bold is people who voted risk, italics on those who voted sent.) Everyone: thoughts on the current claims while we wait for Barundar's claim and hiro's findings? Possible discussion topics: vanilla claims being lies. My, Misder's and Hiro's claims. What we should be doing as town for today's lynch (go for scum lynch or SK lynch), or tonight's actions. My thoughts We can call marv and snarfs basically confirmed town with their mason claim. Therefore we can trust snarf's politician pick and thus someone above him must be politician. We have deduced that scum politician would have used his powers to save sentinel, and therefore SK is the politician. Misder's role is confirmed through his targets, Palmar and hiro. My role is unconfirmable. Hiro's role is hard to confirm as either we deliberately shoot someone or make sure person X doesn't die. Maybe we can vig someone suspicious and have hiro save them to confirm either one. The possibility of the false vanilla claims still holds true. Hiro brought up the potential of zelblade lying about bouncing off JOAT. Toad's mason bounce, Zephirdd's politician bounce and sandroba's mason bounce could also be lies (not saying that they are, but the possibility is there). Thoughts? | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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Reminds me of that IRC mafia game where someone just forgot to check a PM they were shot, and scum got nervous and lied. Was Zephirdd shot, or is he lying, and if he is why did he feel the need to do it? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 16 2012 23:07 Zephirdd wrote: I want to see Bullet Bill and Mason. BBill is a great kind of DT, which could be used to find suspicious players, ESPECIALLY in the event a suspicious player claims a non-bullet role. A BBill that finds powder in a non-bullet claim confirms the target as scum(if you assume there was no frame, ofc) In hindsight we see that scum team picked predominantly KP roles (or at least aimed for roles with guns), giving them a perfect cover up for BB checks. His reasoning for voting risk is shaky ground, on the sole premise of risk playing to his own style, defends PaqMan, really pushes for risk, and even though he is aware of the possibility, it takes him 2 days to realize it was actually him who got shot. On May 20 2012 23:46 Zephirdd wrote: My guess is that the witch protected someone before dieing. On May 22 2012 06:34 Zephirdd wrote: by the way, just logged in. I was saved. I'm the last KP missing I guess lol. Townies could be wrong. These could be honest townie mistakes. But when they start adding up, I'm more inclined to say that there is hidden agenda behind them. Hiro, feel free to weigh in on the discussions if they are relevant to your current findings. | ||
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slOosh
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I still think hiro went with a really safe claim and the lack of promised case / findings puts him at anti-town for me. And since he can't be SK (barring someone not sending in KP which I don't buy) he must be the mafia ____. ##Vote: hiro protagonist | ||
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slOosh
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