fair warning to y'all :p
(did NOT realize this was PMs loool)
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
fair warning to y'all :p (did NOT realize this was PMs loool) | ||
wherebugsgo
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On April 30 2012 07:56 Erandorr wrote: /in ? no | ||
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On April 30 2012 11:48 Ace wrote: who's that scrub listed at spot 12 I see your "2" key is feeling spontaneous today | ||
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I say we scumhunt as normal, but we need to get together a system for the round B voting so that townies do not die and scum do. anyone who wants to talk can PM me but I make no guarantees. Only cookies. | ||
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On April 30 2012 13:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Obviously, an optimal strategy for lynch choice would be for every person to vote the same way. Then, everyone makes it into Phase B, and no one is safe from being able to be lynched. This makes Phase B more complicated, but I think it's worth it for the choice. What do people think? Results are revealed afterwards, so we should know if someone's lying and made it into the minority. Anyone who does, we can lynch. I don't see a reason townies need to worry about being immune to lynch this early in the game. Perhaps in the later stages, where it's feasible scum rig the votes to kill them, but not now. If someone tries that now, we'll know about the ninja bandwagon, because again, the results are revealed. We should try to force scum to play by our rules. They'll be a lot more careful, because there's two scum teams, so I don't see them trying anything too ballsy. Any disadvantage going into the late-game will translate into the other scum-team having more influence than them. how do you lynch someone who lies and then ends up in the minority pool, when being in the minority pool exempts them from lynch??!?! | ||
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the more town there are in the minority the less likely scum are there. That means scum are less likely to be exempt from lynch. Now of course it'll be almost impossible to ensure that you're in the minority, as I imagine it'll be fairly difficult to influence the answers that people provide to the question, AND being in the minority may make players potentially less accountable, but it's just something to think about. If you're town and in the minority please don't shirk your responsibility to hunt scum. You may be exempt from lynch for the day but that doesn't mean anything beyond that. We should use the time we have in the next 24 hours to determine who we'd like to kill. We can use additional time in the B phase to continue that determination and then put a plan into action to actually kill that person. I have ideas already, as do at least a couple of you, from what I have gathered. | ||
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If scum know barely even half of the votes that are being cast they can reliably ensure that they end up in the minority. This is particularly true if Palmar is scum, and we would never be able to find that out easily if he consistently ends up in the minority because he is being fed information about who is voting what. I'll be back a bit later, going to reread again. | ||
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If there is no coherent plan then there is no possible abuse of the system and the assignments are less likely to have been influenced. Think about it; if one scum team finds out that everyone is being assigned to vote a certain way, all of them can vote the other way (or ensure that they are assigned to vote that way). If there was a townie in charge of assigning spots scum could buddy to that townie to improve their chances of appearing in the minority. | ||
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In addition you should know just as well as anyone else that pushing out a list of reads this early for no particularly good reason is pretty poor play. I will, however, say that I agree with killing one person you've listed. I still want to see more posts from that one so I'm not going to name them yet. Also sandro never replied to my PMs, how do I expect to get an answer from him then? It's like PYP:I all over again. | ||
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On May 01 2012 05:53 Palmar wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2012 05:49 Motbob is great wrote: o you still not understand? The only way to lynch someone is to force them into the majority, if you try and artificially create a majority you automatically make it so the mafia can manipulate it. No, mafia cannot manipulate shit if people actually agree with doing it. Let's say that all 12 townies in the game decide "I'm going to follow Palmar's plan" irrelevant of my alignment, mafia cannot do jack shit without revealing themselves. I'm perfectly fine with passing the crown on tomorrow. The problem is there are going to be some dumb as fuck townies who think they're being clevur by breaking the plan, so it will be impossible to tell those lone-ranger-assholes apart from mafia by just this. I don't get what's so hard to understand which is exactly why your plan, Palmar (now pardon my French) is a pile of absolutely worthless shit. It takes roughly four people to disagree with your plan for it to work. Seeing as there are 6 scum, perhaps you being one ofthem, and at least one townie (me) that means that your plan can be upset by the simplest dissent. Any plan that utterly fails because of a hint of dissent is a bad plan in a game of mafia, since there will ALWAYS be dissent. | ||
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On May 01 2012 06:02 gonzaw wrote: Okay I'm back. Just skimmed through the thread, and Palmar's plan seems to catch the gist of the plan I mentioned before. Have scummy people in the majority, and most townie ones in the minority. This seems to fulfill that, and it requires cooperation from people, so it's fine for now and we can focus on scumhunting. I don't really like that the power is on Palmar alone, that introduces quite variance. I doubt he's scum, since I've read games where he was scum and he just spams and trolls on D1. However, even if he's town, he could be easily manipulated by scum, either making him give scum information, or having Palmar make bad calls and reads because of them. That's why I don't like "1-man" plans. I don't know who said it before, but having a small "counsil" of players determining who is in the minority and who isn't is even better, since there will be more players to bounce reads on, and it will be hard for scum to manipulate them, even if one of them is scum. However, I have a better alternative (although I don't think it can be implemented this Round A): Have people Vote in the thread who they want to be in the minority Seems easy enough, people put "##Pardon: Player X" in the thread. We set a deadline (maybe 4-6 hours before Round A ends), and then all votes are taken into account. The players that received more Pardons will be put into the minority (following the same system from Palmar) This takes away the power from Palmar/syllo themselves to determine who is in the minority (which is what many people had problems with), but the core of the system (having townies in the minority, having scummy people in majority) remains the same. Anyways, I'm gonna eat something and read the thread again. Man if you're town please don't play like you did in LI, because that'll mean I'll be subconsciously ignoring all your posts. I can't believe you seriously think that we should vote for a pardon; it's such a colossal waste of time and it's incredibly easy to manipulate for scum. | ||
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Even if I were scum, telling me that you think I am in PMs is pretty pointless and would only serve to weaken your own read if you were town. If you're town and expect to scumhunt this way don't get your hopes too high in regard to actually catching scum. | ||
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On May 01 2012 08:19 gonzaw wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote: K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player. Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up? No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts? Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans. except the voting is secret and you have no way of holding people to their vote! Not to mention since round A ends soon this plan is absolutely worthless for today anyway. | ||
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On May 01 2012 08:20 prplhz wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2012 08:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm voting no to get into the minority. FYI. See how fucking stupid this plan is? ^^ Try "I'm voting yes to follow the plan" and then "See how fucking awesome this plan is?" Show nested quote + On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote: K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player. Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up? Who said anything about it being determined by 1 player? It's always been Palmar, syllogism and Radfield and I doubt anybody would complain if you wanted Foolishness in there instead or whoever really. What does "give up their individual brilliance" even mean? WHOOSH | ||
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If you will "save those specific townies" regardless of what side they appear on, then there's no reason at all to make an elaborate plan to try to put them in the minority in the first place. | ||
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On May 01 2012 08:24 Radfield wrote: As I said, if everyone is in a pissing match it doesn't work. Do you agree to the premises I laid out in my post above VE? Lets imagine we WERE using the plan though, and our 5 or 6 townies were on one side, and you(and only you) decided to jump in. You have now made yourself a target for vigilantes, as well as spotlighted yourself to more intense scrutiny. I'm ok with that, especially if you are scum. Either way, we still have plenty of targets on the majority side. Lets imagine that several people decide to jump onto the minority side, such that the minority switches to the majority. Excellent! We now a pool of 5 or 6 townies, and 4 or 5 scummy ship-jumpers. Obviously the townies will get saved(easy to co-ordinate that), and we lynch into the 4 or 5 scummy ship-jumpers. I really am not seeing the downside here. EBWOP that previous post was to Radfield. Also if we try to form a minority plan for day 1 it can be abused by scum. As you yourself said, either way we'd save those particular townies. However if we don't have a minority plan then there is no way for scum to force themselves into the minority. In fact it's all just a massive waste of time because, as you said, regardless of where they appear, the scummy people will be targetted and the townish ones will not be. | ||
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On May 01 2012 08:31 Radfield wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2012 08:20 wherebugsgo wrote: On May 01 2012 08:19 gonzaw wrote: No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts? Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans. except the voting is secret and you have no way of holding people to their vote! Not to mention since round A ends soon this plan is absolutely worthless for today anyway. Of course you can hold people to their votes. If you say you are going to vote YES, and then vote NO, it's pretty easy to hold someone to their vote... not really. All someone has to do is disagree with the plan. As I said earlier it takes like 4-5 dissenters for the plan to be useless. There are far more than that in the thread already. Thus no, you can't hold people to their votes because they'll just end up voting however they want to. You can try to force them to vote a certain way but if they dissent with the plan you'll have no idea what they're voting. On May 01 2012 08:31 Radfield wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote: K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player. Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up? Lets imagine all town followed a plan of putting the most pro-town players on the minority, and everyone else on the majority. Where does that plan go wrong? It goes wrong in that it's nearly impossible for that plan to be manipulation-proof. All it takes is one scum to be in that circle and it's wrecked. You need one person to do what I did in SS mafia. | ||
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On May 01 2012 09:27 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2012 09:24 chaoser wrote: here, let me ask a question to you radfield. What's the difference between people in the minority and the majority? Minority can't die right? Why would you take away a threat to a player like that? It makes no sense. If you have a system in place to make it so that round 2 proceeds in an orderly manner then everything works out perfectly. I sent this to WBG already but I'll post it here as well. for round two, it's based on whoever has the lowest points will be lynched right? so I was thinking of basing it on a gradient system. Most scummy, no points. We then have the rest pass points in a system following the player order. so lets say it's like 5 people in the majority and 1 person in the minority. that's 25 points. lets say we think a is mafia. so the players are a, b, c, d, e, f we think f is townie so he's in minority cause we need one. we move onto round 2. b gives all his points to c, c gives all his points to d, d gives to e, e gives to b. If we all circle then a will have zero points. even if mafia was trying to save a, the two teams members would have to give 6 points total to save him. Because of the circle system, there's no way a can make back the deficient with his 5 points for both his teammates; one of his teammates will be adjacent to someone without 5 votes. That person is also mafia then. f will be giving his votes, spread as evenly as possible, into the crowd of b, c, d, e. If things look wrong then f is suspicious. WBG suggested to me that we do it so that everyone only cycles 4 votes and they give their one vote to whomever they want so that accountability would be an element and I agree. There's no way a would be able to get out of this situation unless his teammates out themselves. pro shit. I would have come up with this an hour from now so I'll just take credit for this. this is where we ##drink | ||
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my only real contribution has been disseminating it via PMs and suggesting that we introduce an element of accountability that otherwise would not be there. In other words, if we were to assign all five votes for everyone, and they were to sheep along, we would get no information about who they believe is actually town. However, if we instead only assign four of those votes, the general gist of the plan is still followed but there is a small element of accountability introduced that requires players to justify who they think is town. | ||
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They might be exempt from lynch but that doesn't exempt them from being mafia or being accountable to the same things everyone else will be accountable for. | ||
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On May 01 2012 09:52 gonzaw wrote: To be honest...I just copypasted it from the manga so it's not like I "figured out" anything >_> I know that suggested plan, but the point is that nobody will unanimously determine 1 player to be lynched. So if someone thinks that player is town, they will just give him 5 votes to try to save him. If there is a very obvious scum then yes it works, but I think we can come up with something better, like some in-game voting system that's used to determine who votes who and stuff. so in other words, you're apparently pissed that certain people are "bickering," you are apparently concerned that chaoser is not putting forth "original" ideas, and that we have to come up with something better, yet you are content with adding more bullshit to the thread, like this and your previous post? This is what I meant by "I hope you don't play the game the same way you did LI or I'll end up subconsciously ignoring you." | ||
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Please hold your votes for a few hours at the very least. also: cool, since sandro is in the majority, I propose we kill him. Points of concern: 1. This is a PM game, and bar Palmar/syllo, everyone I have asked "have you talked to sandro?" has answered no. The players who have told me they have not talked to sandro include Radfield, chaoser, Foolishness, and BC. In addition, he's ignored two PMs I've sent him as well. Why would a town sandro only talk to Palmar/syllo in a PM game? In SS mafia sandro was active in PMs with everyone as town. In PYP:I he had token activity in PMs as scum and chose to ignore me for a while as well. 2. From the logs I got from Palmar between himself and sandro, it's apparent that sandro is indifferent to the game, and what syllo/Palmar said about their impressions look to be true. Sandro chose to ignore Palmar's question about what he thought about chaoser (he instead chose to simply 3. He's mostly had no involvement in the thread either, and has not been concerned at all with anything that would really help town. I recall he suggested this: On May 01 2012 01:46 sandroba wrote: Yes, anyone saying Palmar can't control everything is not actually thinking about this. If someone doesn't have the last word it is impossible to control round A. That someone does not always have to be the same person. We can adapt and change it up on following rounds if need be. I'm already thinking about round B and I think the optimal way is to claim all votes and spread them across your top 5 town reads from the pool of 10 players left. That way is the hardest for scum to save their dude and provides the most information. That's because scum can provide at max 2 votes on their teamates to make them avoid being lynched and scummy dudes will end up being lynched on average. which on even one read is clearly antitown. If everyone votes their top 5 town in the pool of 10 players that we have, chances are incredibly strong that there will be at least 2-4 people who will receive next to no votes. These people will likely be town, because scum can always find reasons to vote their buddies. It will be the less popular townies who will die, not the actual scum. In addition he comes back and says this later: On May 01 2012 03:26 sandroba wrote: @foolishness There will never be a consensus on whom to kill especially if said person is mafia. It's reasonable to assume even a few townies will have a wrong read on and will end up defending scum. Also afaik only the vote tally will be available, not who voted whom. How exactly is that going to work in practice? Only way I can think of is that we get compliance from everyone beforehand, that they will agree to follow the voting scheme if they get out-voted (we do the traditional voting to see who will be lynched). Then we propose a unique voting scheme so we can identify who didn't follow it (each player votes for a unique combination of players). If some townies will defend scum then of course some townies will end up putting scum in their top 5 town lists! By his own logic sandro shouldn't be following the plan he proposed, yet in PMs with Palmar he claims it's a good plan and is curious as to why Palmar doesn't agree with it. If anyone finds sandroba to be town please speak up and outline your reasoning. Otherwise, I believe that we should be killing him today. | ||
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Don't place votes yet; we want four votes on one person and one somewhere else. This ensures that only sandro will die and no one else. | ||
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On May 01 2012 13:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait, I want to be walked through why "we're" doing a circle-jerk here. I need to know why people think that it's a good idea, and I need to know what they hope to accomplish with it. I've been reading the thread, so please don't ask me to go read it again. I can assure you, I'm reading it as you read this. I'm preparing a post on who of the available lynches I do not wish to continue playing with and why. I hope everyone, regardless of how they intend to spend their votes, will do the same. Time is short, and I want to be informed. because it's pretty much the only effective way to ensure that only one person dies, and at the same time hold people accountable to who they believe is town and why. In addition out of the available lynch choices I am confident that sandro is the most likely to flip scum. | ||
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On May 01 2012 14:30 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, it looks good with 1 person in the minority - it fails to expand on how to proceed with a minority of like 8 people. All you say on the matter is "See, I told you" which doesn't explain anything chaoser. As far as I'm concerned, with 8 people in the minority, the cycle isn't viable. Am I wrong? what the hell is the difference whether there's one person in the minority or five or eight? The idea is to kill one person, the plan isn't much more complicated than that. | ||
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I guess it doesn't really matter that much, but I think that we should at the very least incorporate something that brings in some semblance of accountability. Did you see what chaoser and I discussed? | ||
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I'll make a spreadsheet with the votes so that we see who has claimed what and how many votes have been placed where. This way if there's some kind of discrepancy later we can kill the people responsible. | ||
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On May 01 2012 13:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait, I want to be walked through why "we're" doing a circle-jerk here. I need to know why people think that it's a good idea, and I need to know what they hope to accomplish with it. I've been reading the thread, so please don't ask me to go read it again. I can assure you, I'm reading it as you read this. I'm preparing a post on who of the available lynches I do not wish to continue playing with and why. I hope everyone, regardless of how they intend to spend their votes, will do the same. Time is short, and I want to be informed. I'm so tempted right now, I actually want to kill VE with sandro. If you take a quick glance through VE's posts, you'll see a whole lot of mostly nothing at all. VE constantly talks of scumhunting and really does none of his own. He calls syllo scum for being "overly aggressive" (which is not a scumtell for syllo) and he calls me scum for not telling him who I thought was scum at a juncture where talking about reads very openly would have been rather dumb. He also calls chaoser scum; not sure why, but it could be because of any of a number of factors (for example, because other people said so) Also, he says he'll explain why he's called the three of us scum if any of us show up in the majority. Note that the explanation for chaoser was never given. Finally, there's this: On May 01 2012 13:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait, I want to be walked through why "we're" doing a circle-jerk here. I need to know why people think that it's a good idea, and I need to know what they hope to accomplish with it. I've been reading the thread, so please don't ask me to go read it again. I can assure you, I'm reading it as you read this. I'm preparing a post on who of the available lynches I do not wish to continue playing with and why. I hope everyone, regardless of how they intend to spend their votes, will do the same. Time is short, and I want to be informed. I'm pretty sure VE was never preparing a post on who he was okay with lynching and why, because it never came. Indeed he somehow became "okay" with a sandro lynch despite never once mentioning his name or addressing him before, and suddenly chaoser dropped off his list of suspects. In addition he provided no reasoning for anything he had posted, unlike what he had promised to do earlier. If anyone disagrees with this let me know and why. + Show Spoiler + hopefully I'm not setting myself up for a thread bomb/tantrum here | ||
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Sandro told me he was at a party and he'll reply soon. Here's the exchange: Ve is a good bet, he seems pretty likely to be scum. I'm also slightly suspicous of sheth and mz, but not sure at this point. Original Message From wherebugsgo: How should we kill people in phase B? judging from VE's behavior I would not be at all surprised if he and sandro are actually on the same team. IF we lynch two people today, it should be VE and sandro together IMO. VE saying "I'll give you my reads after I flip" is pretty much the best way to claim scum (trololol) Also Ace why are you saying you're going to vote yourself? You're not in the majority. Care to weigh in on whether you'd like VE and sandro to die? | ||
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On May 02 2012 04:54 prplhz wrote: ah, storm mafia, where wherebugsgo just randomly pointed at me 10 minutes before deadline and then i died. yea i was on top of my game back then. fun fact: this is the 16th game in a row that i have been town. last game i was scum was in XLVII when i requested it. not counting requests (requested town in election mafia too i think) then i'm on like a 20 game town streak. beat that. always town never not town QED. rofl the way you said that is hilarious. To be fair kita made that case on you and I thought everyone would listen to him so I switched wagons :p Anyway if you expect to live very much longer you need to help find scum or do something at any rate. Who needs die today, and why? | ||
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We need to ensure that scum cannot influence the vote by breaking a tie easily. Say no one votes Cephiro and he's town, but VE+sandro are scum. They can simply vote themselves or even each other to live. | ||
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He's been thrown around as a suspect by a few players (notably Foolishness, Palmar, syllogism) but there's been no real justification for it. | ||
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On May 01 2012 15:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually - don't answer that. It doesn't even matter. I'm giving my votes to Radfield, Sheth, prplhz, Cephiro and MrWiggles. Do whatever the piss you want with that. I'm fine with a Sandroba lynch. Original Message From VisceraEyes: I'm saving Sandroba. Lick my balls scum. So much for that shit | ||
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On May 02 2012 08:50 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 05:55 Palmar wrote: How is it in any way beneficial to fuck with me if you're town. Seriously, fuck you, you're being dumb. Let me put this another way: How is it any way beneficial to work together with you if you're scum. Seriously, fuck you, go look in the mirror. (<3 the mirror image posted by Meapak) Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 05:57 Palmar wrote: this game is stupid, arrogant and dumb townies or mafia are fucking with me and it's boring. I'll spread my votes on anyone that isn't cephiro, chaoser, VE and sandroba I think. mostly gonna make sure rad and prplhz stay alive, probably wiggles too, he seems towny enough. So, you start the game by claiming yourself King and moving on to asking everyone to claim to you. Sure, we're arrogant and dumb for not blindly believing in you. I'm sorry my lord, but if you want respect, earn it. If you claim to have the power to get me killed today, and all the other stuff you talked about, why would you care about a few dumb townies? Use your power oh mighty king. Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 06:13 gonzaw wrote: To Cephiro: Dude, I don't get wtf you are doing. Like really. People ask you reads and you start bickering about how you don't need to post them and you are "waiting for the right time" or some shit. Then, you accuse Palmar's "allies" (I guess you mean syllo) that they leak info, and when asked to justify yourself, you go on to spout some mystical bullshit about how "telling you the obvious wouldn't be fun" and shit. Really, you seem to act like Chezinu and those other guys that troll the hell out of games. But why the fuck would you troll this game if you were town? You can't say "Oh you can't use meta because good players change their meta". ...if you are town and play good you don't need to change your meta. In fact, being town you NEED to stay to your meta so people (even those "retards that use meta" (hyperbole here) that you talk about) have it easier to figure out you are town. I can't see any reason why you would willingly change your meta, or act different than it if you are town, specially since you played very good in that game as town; and now you are playing like shit, creating chaos with your bickering, not giving any reads or reasoning behind them, and just running around trolling people. I don't find any town motivation for you to act this way, so I still think you are scum. I'd like people to avoid voting you. Also, wtf is with this? + Show Spoiler + To everyone using "meta": What on earth is wrong with you people? Are you seriously saying that the TL players are so poor that you can just metagame them? How about playing based on what people do this game instead of comparing it to other games. I am starting to get fed up seeing the words "based on meta" come up in every few posts. Okay, if you don't like using meta yourself, then fine, don't use meta yourself. But are you really undermining every use of meta? Are you really saying that every player here is a "Mafia God" who can change metas as they will when they are scum and fool everybody 100% of the time or something? Players here can make mistakes or play badly every once in a while. When they do that as scum we do find them using meta. Why are you against this? Are you just going to assume everybody in this game is Akiyama or Yokoya and that you need elaborate plans and shit to catch them? Do you really think that or are you bluffing now to avoid doing anything constructive? If someone thinks Cephiro is town, please state why you think so. If you really think the correct way for town in every situation is to play "calm and analytical", you're playing the wrong game. The "Basic Handbook Townie", is nowhere neal optimal play in several cases, and there are various valid reasons why one shouldn't. Again I repeat, if you think that or cannot come up for the reasons why, you're playing the wrong game. So tell me this, is it easier to change up your meta to deceive others, or is it easier to read the meta of another player with full certainty? Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 07:18 EchelonTee wrote: RE: The gonzaw/Cephiro back and forth On May 01 2012 08:10 gonzaw wrote: + Show Spoiler + Cephiro: Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=183812 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#84 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#87 I found this odd, because you started very aggresively. There were some good plans (mine) floating around, and you behemently opposed them. The point is that you didn't come up with any of your own or try to generate any other discussion. You inserted doubt into plans and just bickered about them, you didn't come up with content of your own. Well, maybe honestly you thought those plans were bad, so that in itself wouldn't bother me. However, you post this: I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. You are giving the usual "People stop discussing policy lynches/plans/shit and start finding scum!", yet I don't see you following your own advice. When someone asked you for your reads, you said "At the moment I am afraid to tell you I have no reason to share my reads with you.". What? You said we should try and find scum, but you don't want to contribute your reads? You started very aggressive and "keen" to find scum, but you were inactive for some time later and when you came back you didn't put any effort into doing so. I know how you can play as town Cephiro, I observed Death Factory and you were contributing and making plans like crazy. Being this aggresive and indifferent to plans is unlike you. The two bolded parts are the significant parts of gonzaw case, and ones that I find to be pretty true; Cephiro was initially active but since has done no scumhunting. This is especially ironic considering his response: So simply because I was on when the game started and opposed a few plans I was initially active and did scumhunting? No. I have since done no scumhunting? False. Just because I don't scumhunt in the way I did in one game, or in a way you expect me to, does not mean I am not doing it. Unless something drastical happens, my votes today will be split between VE & MZ. wtf why are you wasting votes on VE? | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:15 Cephiro wrote: Because I don't think he should die yet. and yet you've offered no alternative? I like how your reasoning is "because he shouldn't die yet" and not "because I think VE is town." you have no balls, scum. | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:20 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 09:16 wherebugsgo wrote: and yet you've offered no alternative? I like how your reasoning is "because he shouldn't die yet" and not "because I think VE is town." you have no balls, scum. Votes are used to keep someone alive no? Not voting is essentially lynching. He is certainly not the towniest person out there, but he should by no means be the first person to get killed. There are players that are much more concerning to me. PS: I just checked and I was right, I do still have a pair of balls. again, LIKE WHOM? You keep saying he shouldn't be the first to die and there are others who need to die. The day ends in less than 3 hours and you haven't enlightened us about who those people are. If he's not the towniest person out there and your previous rationale for voting was to vote people who you thought were town, why the hell is your vote on him? | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:32 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 09:22 wherebugsgo wrote: again, LIKE WHOM? You keep saying he shouldn't be the first to die and there are others who need to die. The day ends in less than 3 hours and you haven't enlightened us about who those people are. If he's not the towniest person out there and your previous rationale for voting was to vote people who you thought were town, why the hell is your vote on him? prplhz & sandroba Do you think I am magically going to convince the town to not vote for them after all the back & forth crap with gonzaw? Nice defeatist attitude. Great for town, yeah? On May 02 2012 09:32 Cephiro wrote: Please point out where I have said the bolded. I am not using my votes to simply stack them up on my strongest townreads, as I feel it is more important for me to save VE from getting killed currently. If I feel there are more likely persons scum than VE, and VE is about to die, why should I let him die? Also, I am also voting for my strong townreads, (MZ), as I want try to ensure that no tricky disco maneuvers get him killed. You didn't say that exactly, I was incorrect in what I remembered. When I looked back this is what I found that I remembered you saying: On May 01 2012 21:38 Cephiro wrote: About voting: I am fine with spreading my votes, or concentrating them on one person mostly, depending on how the persons I find trustworthy would like to act. I'd like to point out the possibility of voting in "circle", in smaller groups or pairs. For example, let's say everyone agreed that Radfield & Meapak should in no circumstances be lynched today, they could be allowed to simply vote each other to reach the 5 votes. I'd personally suggest groups of 3 & pairs. So why are you deciding to be the only person to vote for VE? Again, you don't give a reason for defending VE. You just claim he shouldn't die yet. That's not good enough, and quite frankly it's scummy as fuck because it ruins a lot of the work many of us have done. As town I don't believe you would be this uncooperative. Last thing I'll note about Cephiro: On May 01 2012 11:43 Cephiro wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2012 11:09 gonzaw wrote: Meta is a very effective tool. Most people use it very badly and just say things like "Oh, he was active in that game when he was town, he's inactive right now so he's scum". You have to analyze behaviour and motivation when you use meta. Here is your filter from DF2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=183812 You can instantly find differences. For instance, you are calm and analytical. In this game you are overcome by "emotion", you are very aggressive and you don't have a focus on things, you just cling on to something (arguing with me for instance) and stay with it for the rest of the game. When people accuse you (syllogism for instance) and start shitting on you you keep your cool. Now someone FoSes you for the first time and you go on a rampage. In that game you obviously care about the game. You post your thoughts every once in a while to keep up with discussion, and you do it in a straight manner without misdirecting or anything. Here you don't care about discussion either. You started shitting on people for pointing out plans. Then when people want your reads you tell them you won't post shit. Then when someone takes notice of this and FoSes you you flip your shit and tunnel the hell out of him, without even caring about other things from the game. For instance, you don't care about the most important part: finding scum. "Oh, he was analytical and calm in that game when he was town, he's being more "aggressive" now, so he's scum." Do you see what you are doing here? You do realize it doesn't even take a skilled person in psychology to fake that, or act in another way on purpose? As for your final question, my final answer: I will give my reads when I have enough content to back it up. If you think I am scummy for not going around pointing fingers when I am unsure myself... well, I'll let everyone make their conclusions of that. As I said before, I find making one proper case more useful rather than make 3 jabs at different people without anything to back it up. That is all. So, Cephiro here says he'll give his reads when he has enough content to back them up. Has he backed up his reads of sandro and prplhz? Nope. He then says making one proper case is more useful than making 3 jabs at different people without anything to back it up... well, Cephiro still has no case of his own, (with about 2:10 left in the day or so) and, the best part? He's been jabbing at people just as much as anyone he's arguing with. Evidence here: On May 01 2012 10:51 Cephiro wrote: I sincerely hope you two are not townies. -_- (at gonzaw + wiggles) On May 01 2012 21:38 Cephiro wrote: + Show Spoiler [My Round B Vote List] + --------------------People I would prefer my votes going to: VisceraEyes Meapak_Ziphh Liquid`Sheth --------------------People I am ok voting for: Radfield --------------------People I can vote for if really necessary: Mr. Wiggles EchelonTee --------------------People I will not be voting for today: prplhz chaoser sandroba + Show Spoiler [If I was able to vote for the minority] + --------------------People I would prefer my votes going to: Bloodyc0bbler wherebugsgo --------------------People I am ok voting for: Foolishness gonzaw --------------------People I can vote for if really necessary: Palmar Ace --------------------People I would not be voting for today: Katina syllogism On May 02 2012 09:32 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 09:22 wherebugsgo wrote: again, LIKE WHOM? You keep saying he shouldn't be the first to die and there are others who need to die. The day ends in less than 3 hours and you haven't enlightened us about who those people are. If he's not the towniest person out there and your previous rationale for voting was to vote people who you thought were town, why the hell is your vote on him? prplhz & sandroba Do you think I am magically going to convince the town to not vote for them after all the back & forth crap with gonzaw? note in none of these cases does Cephiro ever give a single shred of reason why he's placed players where he has placed them, nor has he bothered to make a singular case as he said he would prefer gonzaw doing (over jabbing people) Yet, the closest thing Cephiro has done to scumhunting is just calling people scum. Not to mention, he hasn't had a singular focus. The double standard is quite telling. | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:57 VisceraEyes wrote: LMAO Bugs accusing of "the closest thing Cephiro has done to scumhunting is just calling people scum". That's rich. Really, that's priceless. Ignore List VisceraEyes Cephiro | ||
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I've been PMing it around a bit but I don't have all the definite numbers yet. I know some people have claimed to have voted certain ways but haven't provided the specific allocations. Anyway, from the data I've gathered we probably need to get everyone above AT LEAST 6 votes (probably closer to 10 or 11 even) to kill sandro/VE. Even killing sandro alone will probably take about that many votes, since VE piled five on him. Keep in mind that unless everyone in the pool has more votes than sandro then sandro will not die. Thus it does NOT help for people to put extra votes on players who already have a lot, like Radfield. | ||
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I've talked with the last 3 recently in PMs so I assume those will come forth shortly. We don't have much time left in the day as it is. | ||
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On May 02 2012 11:38 gonzaw wrote: If we want to lynch sandroba we need 15 more votes (10 for the other guys to arrive at 6, and 5 for VE to arrive at 5). That's basically total compliance from 3 out of those 5 you mentioned, and I doubt all of them will follow it. yeah, VE's votes basically fucked this one up pretty big. I know I can get compliance with Foolishness and Katina. The problem is that if we put votes on VE to bring him to 5 then it's really easy for scum to just push sandro and VE to 7 votes and then a bunch of townies all die. | ||
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He probably put two votes on each Radfield and wiggles, though it may not be safe to assume that. | ||
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The names are arbitrary but Radfield hasn't claimed his votes yet either from what I can tell. | ||
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On May 02 2012 11:54 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 11:52 wherebugsgo wrote: see the thing is that if Cephiro is scum, let's say, and we put votes on VE to bring him to par with sandro, Cephiro can save both players by going 3/2 on sandro/ve or something like that. The names are arbitrary but Radfield hasn't claimed his votes yet either from what I can tell. I am certainly not going to vote for sandro. So.. who are you voting for? Or don't feel like sharing? tell me who you're voting. I'm talking it out with foolishness right now, my votes are going down in the next 1-2 minutes. | ||
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On May 02 2012 11:56 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 02 2012 11:55 wherebugsgo wrote: tell me who you're voting. I'm talking it out with foolishness right now, my votes are going down in the next 1-2 minutes. I guess we have a situation where we both want to know each others votes first, don't we? no, fuck you. Read the damn spreadsheet. | ||
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There are 5 votes that we know have gone toward Radfield/Wiggles and a third person (these are syllo's votes) There's 1 vote that chaoser didn't claim. There's 15 votes between Radfield/sandro/prplhz that have not been claimed. | ||
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70 claimed votes and 5 from syllo, that leaves just those 3 players. Everyone who is at 9 is safe, and I think everyone who is at 8 is also safe (because there are players who are at 7 and below) | ||
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Thanks for saving sandro, you fuck. | ||
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On May 02 2012 13:14 gonzaw wrote: Wait, didn't prplz have 9 votes in the spreadsheet? O.o It said chaoser gave 4 votes to prplhz, but he gave them to Cephiro instead? Is this right? Or did you guys determine that in PMs but didn't update the spreadsheet? fuck that was me derping. prplhz and cephiro are one column apart and I just put chaoser's votes in prplhz's column by accident. | ||
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Original Message From chaoser: i gave my last vote to motbob is great.meapak. sorry for the massf pms haha, i'm just sending messages as i go along Original Message From wherebugsgo: I'm writing up a spreadsheet with the votes. You said you put 4 on cephiro; where did you put the last one? Currently it looks like we'll need at least 6 votes on everyone to kill sandro. . Can you give me your most important reads? I'd also like to know what you think of Radfield. | ||
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On May 02 2012 13:34 gonzaw wrote: So were all the votes according to the PMs you received? Or were some off? (apparently Foolishness implies some are off) yeah, I was just missing sandro's and prpl's votes. | ||
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I'm curious as to why Ace just said wiggles is scum and sandro is town. | ||
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No I will not go back and go through the order of PMs. That would take hours and yield next to no information at all. I'd much rather not waste my time doing that (there's like 8 pages worth of PMs from this game in my inbox already) The reason Radfield thought there were 6 votes on prpl was because I messed up and shifted votes that were actually on Cephiro over one column, so it appeared that prpl had 4 votes more than he actually did. | ||
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On May 04 2012 12:02 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I'm giving all 5 votes to cephiro. G'nite all! You go from 50/50 on cephiro to being comfortable with giving him all your votes? da fak? | ||
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You call the guy 50/50 town and then put all your votes on him when you know it takes 9 votes to save someone. Cephiro is definitely not the towniest person in the game and I would rank him right now in the top 3 in terms of disruptive and antitown players. Obviously being loud and obnoxious isn't necessarily a scumtell (as VE's flip proved) but I'm far more convinced Cephiro is scum than town at this point. Why would you ever in that situation give your five votes to someone you don't even have a town read on? Why not give those votes to Foolishness, or me, or honestly anyone else in the majority pool? You can't seriously argue that everyone else in that majority pool is worse than 50/50 for you. | ||
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We need to establish a proper system so that scum cannot simply choose to save themselves if they are up to die. | ||
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why is it that in PMs you did not deny that you were a vig, but when you are asked in-thread you point me back to that post? | ||
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On May 04 2012 18:13 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 04 2012 18:10 wherebugsgo wrote: alright, now that we've gone there: why is it that in PMs you did not deny that you were a vig, but when you are asked in-thread you point me back to that post? Why would an townie ever want to mislead possible scum of a power role target? Yeah... think about it. Oddly enough, you never called the person in question scum. http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llgp6l679Z1qj60veo1_500.gif anyway, back to my ignore list you go, scummy scum scum. | ||
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On May 04 2012 20:16 syllogism wrote: Also I like how you assume Palmar is town in that post, when you have been trying to undermine him whole game long hahaha I noticed that too | ||
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On May 04 2012 22:46 syllogism wrote: By the way, he sent me this PM last night Show nested quote + Original Message From Cephiro: BC has played very openly and been honest about his opinions. Although his town play is not perfect, I could say the same about several others in this game. Add that on top of the PMs and reactions from certain people opposing him, I have absolutely no reason to believe he is scum. At the moment I am fairly sure you are town, but I am not completely sure of a few things: 1) Why the buddying with Palmar 2) Your most posts seem very towny to me, but yet you keep pushing this very anti-town plan, there is no way for people suddenly trust you or Palmar any more than anyone else, and you nor Palmar have much town-cred to back it up imo. Also, interesting fact: There are a lot of players being called out for not scumhunting or making cases (especially in thread). Fact is, I don't see either of you two doing it either. LOOOOL Sorry BC but your scumbuddy is awful. I would've bussed him long ago if I were you | ||
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At this point the thread is just getting filled up with garbage anyway, the only purpose for a sandro convo is to derail from the proper subject of lynch today. | ||
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Compare his filter here to DFM2, he doesn't go nuts as town because someone suspects him. His choice of words here is completely different too, and he undermines almost every effort that has been made by anyone, with absolutely no scumreads at all. Sandro you suck at trolling, if you've truly been afk as town then I expect better of you | ||
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On May 05 2012 06:48 sandroba wrote: I don't know cephiro's meta, but I wouldn't say he is behaving like mafia. If you people are sure he is though, I have no qualms killing him. I'm not sure why we are killing BC anymore then, since it was bugs who saved sheth ytd for some unknown reason. So apparently sheth was the agreed-upon kill yesterday? Hindsight is 20/20 but at no point did I see anyone seriously want to kill Sheth day 1. | ||
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On May 05 2012 06:48 sandroba wrote: I don't know cephiro's meta, but I wouldn't say he is behaving like mafia. If you people are sure he is though, I have no qualms killing him. I'm not sure why we are killing BC anymore then, since it was bugs who saved sheth ytd for some unknown reason. btw the translation of the first sentence is this: "cephiro is not on my scumteam, but he might be on the other one. Thus I'm fine with killing him." Since when is town sandro so damn indifferent to who we lynch? | ||
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Who should we kill in the majority then? | ||
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give them to EchelonTee | ||
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At the time I asked that we had less (foolishness and Katina traded all their votes between each other; they both messaged me when I was afk and said they couldn't make it for deadline) | ||
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however, no matter what happens today, UNLESS both cephiro and BC are town (and both of them die) we'll have the name of at least one scum. If anyone has lied about their votes I am going to assume they are scum as well. | ||
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Palmar claimed to vote 5 on prplhz but failed? the fuck? | ||
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On May 05 2012 17:58 Palmar wrote: Yeah sorry guys. For integrity's sake I meant to stick 5 votes on prplhz, I fell asleep Seems like it didn't change the outcome so I guess it's ok. oops be glad sandro gave him that 1 vote! Speaking of sandro, how come you never made that case on Meapak, scumdroba? | ||
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what was the purpose of saying in thread you were giving votes to Cephiro/what did you get out of it? Why did you choose to tell Meapak that you were lying and not anyone else? | ||
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look at sandro/cephiro/sheth/foolishness/chaoser and possibly meapak if he's not actually having a bad town game | ||
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Don't want to die? Prove your usefulness. | ||
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Indiscriminately, kill them all. | ||
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To that, I say: die scum, die. | ||
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the reason I was voting MZ was in case cephiro and BC traded votes. In fact based on BC giving cephiro votes I'm pretty sure (if Cephiro and BC weren't on the same team) that BC was gambling that Cephiro would give him votes. | ||
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If any one of Cephiro/sandro/sheth/chaoser don't flip scum then we should probably kill Meapak. | ||
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May 07 2012 03:09 GMT
#1003
Indeed I wasn't even sure why he would tell meapak. | ||
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May 07 2012 03:11 GMT
#1006
Syllo was right, this should teach you not to unnecessarily lie as scum. | ||
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May 07 2012 03:27 GMT
#1009
On May 07 2012 12:16 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Show nested quote + On May 07 2012 12:11 wherebugsgo wrote: As opposed to telling palmar, since that would actually make sense? Syllo was right, this should teach you not to unnecessarily lie as scum. Why would I tell Palmar? Hes pretty much one of the ppl I coudn't tell. I wanted a reaction from syllogism and his group. If I told Palmar he'd tell Syllogism. You're point is terribly bad. -_- So you want me to believe that you thought BC was town, considered giving him votes yesterday, and based this all on having precisely one PM sent to him with nothing in response. And you chose BC, of all people. The person who everyone was trying to kill. Who flipped scum. Who you have no PM logs with, despite the fact that he replied to every single PM I sent him, even up to just a few hours before lynch. You have no other logs with BC. It is quite frankly impossible for me to believe that as town you would be in such a situation. | ||
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May 07 2012 03:49 GMT
#1012
sandro you too. | ||
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May 07 2012 04:01 GMT
#1016
On May 07 2012 12:55 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Why would I forge a PM to BC if I could have simply said I didn't PM him? Just give me an answer to that please. because you said you PMed more than one person about the bluff, and Meapak was only one person. derp. | ||
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May 07 2012 05:45 GMT
#1030
On May 07 2012 13:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Show nested quote + On May 07 2012 13:01 wherebugsgo wrote: On May 07 2012 12:55 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Why would I forge a PM to BC if I could have simply said I didn't PM him? Just give me an answer to that please. because you said you PMed more than one person about the bluff, and Meapak was only one person. derp. Could have said Ace or Foolishness. derp back at ya. this pretty much proves you're lying, since Ace was dead at that point and Foolishness would've said something. | ||
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May 07 2012 05:59 GMT
#1035
On May 07 2012 14:56 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 07 2012 14:55 syllogism wrote: Don't use the "do you really think we are stupid enough" defense unless you want me to answer that and present evidence as to why that may be the case. Please do present evidence as to why that may be the case. slide A: Cephiro's filter | ||
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May 07 2012 07:34 GMT
#1044
On May 07 2012 16:28 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 07 2012 16:25 syllogism wrote: Now that you are not in danger of being lynched today, I'm sure you will spend the day scum hunting and making cases. Possibly. If you personally guarantee that you will take a look at them objectively, I am fairly sure I can share a read or two with detailed backup, maybe even a case. what the fuck kind of guarantee is that if you're town you'll scumhunt, if you're anything else you'll continue to be a useless prick | ||
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May 07 2012 07:36 GMT
#1046
On May 07 2012 16:35 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 07 2012 16:34 wherebugsgo wrote: On May 07 2012 16:28 Cephiro wrote: On May 07 2012 16:25 syllogism wrote: Now that you are not in danger of being lynched today, I'm sure you will spend the day scum hunting and making cases. Possibly. If you personally guarantee that you will take a look at them objectively, I am fairly sure I can share a read or two with detailed backup, maybe even a case. what the fuck kind of guarantee is that if you're town you'll scumhunt, if you're anything else you'll continue to be a useless prick I didn't ask for your opinion did I? who cares? It's not like your town play has suddenly morphed into you being a complete ass, this is absurd. No townie would make such conditionals on his play unless he purposely was playing against his wincon. Your wincondition is to find scum and kill them if you're town. If you're making these types of conditional statements as town I honestly see no reason to ever play with you again | ||
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May 07 2012 08:59 GMT
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On May 07 2012 17:10 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 07 2012 16:36 wherebugsgo wrote: who cares? It's not like your town play has suddenly morphed into you being a complete ass, this is absurd. No townie would make such conditionals on his play unless he purposely was playing against his wincon. Your wincondition is to find scum and kill them if you're town. If you're making these types of conditional statements as town I honestly see no reason to ever play with you again So explain me why I should even bother to make a public case to convince anyone if the reaction I get is "Insert random herpderp.gif + /IGNORE LIST SCUM LOL"? There are several ways to play towards ones wincondition, so stop bitching about that. It's not like one way is magically the most optimal in every case. At the moment I do not see a single reason why I should take any advice from you during this game. @ syllo: Very well, I'll PM you later. "why should I bother making a case" if you're town the answer to that question should be fucking clear as day Not to mention you haven't even made a case to begin with, so I have no clue where you're getting this "insert random herpderp.gif" bullshit from although it is fun to watch you flail. It's probably the only reason I can't resist replying to your pathetic posts | ||
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May 07 2012 08:59 GMT
#1050
I was right about BC LOLOLOL | ||
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May 07 2012 19:53 GMT
#1128
I'll be voting according to it (sorry; not much time today for me.) | ||
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May 07 2012 20:01 GMT
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May 07 2012 21:41 GMT
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May 08 2012 01:28 GMT
#1154
On May 08 2012 10:14 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 04:13 slOosh wrote: @gonzaw My reads (from PM w/ WBG). That scumslip that Syllo caught is also a heavy tell as he bashes Palmer for a good 2~3 pages of his filter and would still consider him town. Lol what? You think I think Palmar is town? Couldn't be more wrong. His whole filter is a bunch of bullshit worse than mine. | ||
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May 08 2012 04:20 GMT
#1169
#1, Cephiro claimed that he was NOT going to vote Sheth. This should have made it apparent that he was going to vote either meapak or chaoser. I told gonzaw that it made no sense to split votes in a situation where you think scum are going to try to influence the vote. I told him you either avoid influencing the lynch at all so that scum simply out themselves, or you put all five of your votes on a singular person. At the time I used meapak as the example because I thought he was the most likely to be town out of the 3. (I basically considered chaoser and sheth about even to flip scum and meapak more likely to be town) However, as I was not around about 1 hour to 1.5 hours before the lynch (my final started at 19:00 PDT) I didn't see what meapak and cephiro posted, and I had already sent in my votes anyway. On May 08 2012 10:14 Cephiro wrote: As per Sheth's own request, I will not put any votes on him. Do what you wish with this information. I will try to answer the PMs I've got as soon as possible. Here's where we basically know Cephiro will put all his votes on either chaoser or meapak On May 08 2012 11:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Hello everyone, I just realized I can't vote WBG so I'm giving my votes to katina. In interest of full disclosure sheth told me he put all his votes on me. and here we know because meapak is receiving 5 cephiro is almost certain to put 5 on chaoser. This should've made it clear that Sheth would die if he was town because if he wasn't it would take at least two scum to out themselves in order for him to live. Had gonzaw put his 5 votes on sheth at this point (knowing both meapak and chaoser would get 5) we would've triple lynched. Sorry for not making my instructions explicit enough. On May 08 2012 12:59 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 12:26 gonzaw wrote: At least I was right that Cephiro would try to determine the lynch by his own You're hilarious. Although you are right in one sense which I'm surprised people haven't still realised. If the majority tries to work together, all it requires is one weak link and the results can be controlled to almost any extent by the minority. Basically, the more you all agree to vote in unison, the more powerful my votes are in deciding whom is left last. Unless I fall to majority myself, to a certain degree I'm having the final word in what happens. in other words, you're the reason Sheth died. Do you even read your own fucking posts? | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 04:28 GMT
#1171
I suppose I should've just gambled and told gonzaw to vote sheth (since cephiro wouldn't) but that would've been rash and if I was right about meapak and as cephiro voted chaoser, it would've resulted in meapak dying (same result if meapak is town) | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 04:30 GMT
#1172
On May 08 2012 13:27 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 13:20 wherebugsgo wrote: In other words, you're the reason Sheth died. Do you even read your own fucking posts? Yes I do. And I know very well that "the final decision" was in my hands. The fun thing here is, no-one else but me is ready to take responsibility for the actions of town. You wanted Sheth dead, I didn't mess it up, so now you can go all out tunnelling that I was the one that caused his death. Well guess what, if you had wanted to save him, you could have just voted for him, but no, you all working together wanted him to die. That is a fact. Now if there are any players left but me that are capable of thinking for themselves instead of being led by these scumbags, I'd recommend you to take a closer look at the players who pushed for VE & Sheth to be killed. BC was simply a bus by his teammates as it was the general consensus that he would die, trying to save him would have been much more risky. What they tried instead was buddy with a bad looking townie (me), and try to take me down, counting on getting votes from me. And even in the case that failed, I would look bad for trying to save a scum. yes, I wanted sheth dead. But I wanted chaoser dead too. In fact, I wanted ALL THREE to die because there's no way all three of them are town. So yes, you did fuck that up, regardless of what you may think. It's okay though, because as soon as you are in the majority again there will be no BC to save you. And I will ensure that you will die, as there will be no pesky school to get in my way. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 04:31 GMT
#1174
On May 08 2012 13:31 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 13:28 wherebugsgo wrote: I suppose I should've just gambled and told gonzaw to vote sheth (since cephiro wouldn't) but that would've been rash and if I was right about meapak and as cephiro voted chaoser, it would've resulted in meapak dying (same result if meapak is town) So you clearly have knowledge and control of the vote situation, but you refuse to take any responsibility? I say not a coward town, I say scum. you still can't read apparently. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 04:33 GMT
#1175
I cannot be right about everything and I need different opinions in order to find scum. The game feels "too easy" because no one is doing anything, so there's an inherent bias in wanting to kill the people who are the most useless/anti town. At this point since that's almost everyone I'm starting to go insanely paranoid. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 04:45 GMT
#1178
On May 08 2012 13:42 Cephiro wrote: So you admit that you wanted to kill more townies again? Not the first time. Let's assume we lynched all three of them and one turned out to be scum. 2 for 1. Current player ratio: 8:3:2. You do realize we can't keep doing such trades, as the town will just lose more and more of the little power we have if we do that? Assuming we managed to lynch all three and got 1 scum: 6:2:2 in optimal scenario. 6:3:1 in the worse one. If it went to 6:2:2, both scumteams could constantly vote 1:1. Which means: Min/Max 2:4 - Town 1:1 - Scum A 1:1 - Scum B 50 total votes, 50/6 rounded up = 9 votes for safety. Town has 30 votes available to divide between 4 players, effecively 7,5 votes per player, which is not enough to save anyone for sure. Doing an optimal split we would get 8/8/7/7 as the possible high risk, high reward situation, as no-one is safe but unless the scum votes line up perfectly it should have everyone safe. Worst case, two more town down. With a safe split of 9/9/9/3, at least 3 town will be safe for sure, but one is basically guaranteed to die. What I am saying is, we can't afford to lose multiple townies as soon even with optimal voting we are not guaranteed to be able to lynch scum. Then we are very close to having lost the game. Of course, the scum factions have to eliminate each other still, which gives us slightly more room for mistakes, but doing mass-lynches at this time would be suicidal. your entire assumption falls apart when you realize that the basic assumption can be wrong and that even if two of them were town, if all 3 died that opens windows into finding OTHER scum. The rest of your post is just total horse shit because it assumes that 2 of them were townies, and that only the ratios matter. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 04:51 GMT
#1180
at any rate I have no idea why I am bothering to argue with you. The fact remains that as long as the people we want to kill remain alive, we cannot progress into finding other scum because we have next to no pressure on them. It all basically comes down to luck who is on the chopping block, and they'll always have immune friends in the minority pool who can save them. It's basically a race against the clock; either we get a set number of correct lynches in (and to do this we at all times need to know ALL of the players who are most likely to flip scum, as we have no way of controlling who ends up in the majority really) or we don't. That means every single opportunity that we get matters. VE screwed up the first one by saving sandro and now sandro has been in the minority twice in a row. We got the second one alright. The third one was messed up because of me, albeit there were circumstances for me out of my control (obviously I'm not going to skip a school final just to get a scum lynched in a forum mafia game) If you were town you would accept that in order to move on from this stalemated situation we would need to kill our prime suspects. If you're town and you continue to be antiprogress you'll just make yourself look like an ass postgame. I'm completely fine with that, and as you are too I'm still pretty sure you're not town. The discrepancy between your behavior here and in DFM2 is just too great for you to be town here, unless your play has degraded so far that you can't actually reason your way out of a paper bag. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 04:53 GMT
#1181
On May 08 2012 13:48 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 13:45 wherebugsgo wrote: your entire assumption falls apart when you realize that the basic assumption can be wrong and that even if two of them were town, if all 3 died that opens windows into finding OTHER scum. The rest of your post is just total horse shit because it assumes that 2 of them were townies, and that only the ratios matter. True, I did not cover all the possibilities. But the chances of lynching 2 or 3 scum out of 3 persons on a mass lynch is highly unlikely, so I provided the best possible still likely-to-happen scenario. No it's not. You don't even base this argument on anything. The likelihood of lynching two scum out of three if you choose all three players completely randomly is pretty low, but when all three of those players are almost universally considered to be scum the likelihood gets multiplied many times over. On May 08 2012 13:48 Cephiro wrote: I do not believe that you can currently correctly decide other players alignments based on someone flipping, as you have been wrong so many times already. At no point have I said only the ratios matter, but they are crucial information in specific situations. You're just fear mongering based on known information. That's a scum tactic. There is almost no way you would say that I have been wrong "many times already" when there have only been two town flips. I have been right 1 time out of 3. That's better than you, as you've been right...well, never. If you want to base this shit on known information then clearly my track record is infinitely better than yours, since you've defended a flipped scum. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 05:04 GMT
#1184
THAT is why we have been calling you scum, because when you are town you do not do that. In fact at one point you accused me of tunneling when I had merely made my second post that even addressed you. At that point everything you've been saying has screamed scum agenda, since in every post you make at least one gross (and often illogical) exaggeration, usually rooted in some sort of fear mongering. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 05:06 GMT
#1185
On May 08 2012 14:03 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 13:53 wherebugsgo wrote: No it's not. You don't even base this argument on anything. The likelihood of lynching two scum out of three if you choose all three players completely randomly is pretty low, but when all three of those players are almost universally considered to be scum the likelihood gets multiplied many times over. This is just bullshit. You've been universally wrong twice, right once so far. Looks to me that the likelihood just gets divided by many times over. AND YOU'VE BEEN WRONG EVERY SINGLE TIME. I'm done arguing with you. You're scum. You're not interested in the objective truth. You're merely interested in grossly exaggerating, misleading, and disrupting based on false assumptions and logical fallacies. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 05:13 GMT
#1191
On May 08 2012 14:08 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 14:06 wherebugsgo wrote: AND YOU'VE BEEN WRONG EVERY SINGLE TIME. I'm done arguing with you. You're scum. You're not interested in the objective truth. You're merely interested in grossly exaggerating, misleading, and disrupting based on false assumptions and logical fallacies. I'VE BEEN RIGHT EVERY SINGLE TIME UNLIKE YOU, LEARN TO READ. On May 03 2012 09:34 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 03 2012 03:36 Foolishness wrote: Is there anyone that actually does not want BC to die? Me. On May 03 2012 15:16 Cephiro wrote: I'd say there's easily at least 3 mafia in that list. Do you really think that there were 4 mafia in the majority yesterday? Please.... I can understand your town reads on syllo and Katina but I have no idea how you find BC scum when you see gonzaw and wbg as town. -_- On May 04 2012 17:01 Cephiro wrote: Few random facts: 1) You're not getting me lynched today. 2) You're not getting BC lynched today. 3) You need to get your head checked if you think I'm scum. On May 04 2012 17:45 Cephiro wrote: Show nested quote + On May 04 2012 17:41 EchelonTee wrote: it's 4:30 am. i'm sleeping. hopefully when I come back I will be more ineberiated and thus more ready to deal with the shenanigans of this thread. hey people DISCUSS THE BC LYNCH. you know, the one that most people agree on? is it an easy bandwagon? A good lynch on scum? we should discuss it! Nothing to discuss about, it's another bad lynch on a townie, just like the earlier one on VE. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 05:18 GMT
#1194
On May 08 2012 14:16 Katina wrote: Did we not learn anything from gonzaw and Wiggles about feeding trolls? and where have you been all day, miss? | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 06:51 GMT
#1196
I've been pushing him for a while but the suspicion hasn't stuck because everyone is unsure on him. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 14:56 GMT
#1219
On May 08 2012 23:14 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2012 13:33 wherebugsgo wrote: also, since it feels like I am virtually the only townie who cares about winning, I'd appreciate it if some of you stopped being lazy assholes and actually did something for a change. I cannot be right about everything and I need different opinions in order to find scum. The game feels "too easy" because no one is doing anything, so there's an inherent bias in wanting to kill the people who are the most useless/anti town. At this point since that's almost everyone I'm starting to go insanely paranoid. "has total control and asks everyone to follow his plan" How do I have total control when one jackass like Cephiro can essentially change the lynch however he sees fit? Also, there's a reason people trust me with their votes. It's cause I've been right at least once and I appear town to them. "bitches about people being lazy" If people weren't lazy we would've won by now. Word dude? You do realize that if you, syllo, and palmar are asking people to follow your plans and control knowing the votes and whatnot that most people are not going to do much and just follow along right? That when people have different opinions, you either don't listen to them or think they are scum? You reads of scum are literally people who disagreed with the palmar plan (MZ, Ace, BC, Me) and people who are lurking (sandro). You're blaming other people when it's your own goddamn fault in the first place. Okay, let's see... I only call people scum if their opinions differ from mine in a way that blatantly supports a scum agenda. For example, saying that you believe cephiro + BC to be town over palmar + syllo, with the arguments you were using? Pretty fucking scummy, seeing as none of your reasons were valid and you're not retarded enough as town to normally believe the stuff you were saying. The fact that sheth flipped green is disturbing but that just means that last night all three up for lynch were townies. LOL what?! How the hell do you go from ONE flipping town to ALL being town? Given how meapak responded (I'm not saving myself, I'm willing to die) and how he only survived because of Sheth (who flipped green), he's obviously green as well. So we had three greens up for lynch. I don't know who in your group is the one but I'm sure one of them is mafia, dude. Probably palmar. So since sandro responded in essentially the same way, he's town too? I guess all one has to do is give up when we try to lynch them, then we'll think they're town! Man I can't fathom you'd think this garbage if you were town. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 14:58 GMT
#1220
On May 08 2012 23:50 chaoser wrote: n does as well and not buy into palmar/syllo group.[/QUOTE]oh wait, so you're sure palmar isn't mafia? you're sure that ET isn't mafia? how? They haven't been lynched. The only one I've been wrong on is sheth, which you've been wrong on as well. I stopped here, since after reading this I realized the rest of it was just more bullshit. On May 05 2012 12:15 chaoser wrote: wow...i was wrong about BC/ceph v syllo/palmar... good job scum, you're now on my ignore list as well. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 15:06 GMT
#1223
look at what he quoted Ace as saying. It refers to round A voting, as chaoser himself admits. I have not tried to influence round A voting at all because I agreed with Ace that trying to do so would just put scum at an advantage. However, what did Ace have to say about round B voting? Well, not much. However, this post stands out: On May 01 2012 13:16 Ace wrote: I'm in the Minority? Deal with it people. bugs, chaoser just tell me where to place my votes. Ace supported a COOPERATIVE round B plan, since it's fucking common sense that town needs to work COOPERATIVELY with everyone on the SAME PAGE in order for us to kill scum. Individual players have a huge amount of power in this setup, which makes it all the more important that the town works in unison. That's why I'm encouraging people to step up and it's also why chaoser's argument that a centralized town discourages players from actually playing the game is total rubbish. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 15:07 GMT
#1224
On May 09 2012 00:05 chaoser wrote: lol wbg, I can see you're going to stick with your arrogance. Cool. I mean, like I said, when MZ and I flip town, you'll have to eat your words. Also, can you please stop throwing around "retarded". It's ableist. I know I'm town, I'm sure MZ is town given his actions at death. Sheth flipped town. 3 towns. given that you still haven't coughed up a single case that you have promised for 3 days straight, I'm pretty damn confident you're scum and not town. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 15:10 GMT
#1227
On May 09 2012 00:08 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On May 09 2012 00:07 wherebugsgo wrote: On May 09 2012 00:05 chaoser wrote: lol wbg, I can see you're going to stick with your arrogance. Cool. I mean, like I said, when MZ and I flip town, you'll have to eat your words. Also, can you please stop throwing around "retarded". It's ableist. I know I'm town, I'm sure MZ is town given his actions at death. Sheth flipped town. 3 towns. given that you still haven't coughed up a single case that you have promised for 3 days straight, I'm pretty damn confident you're scum and not town. Isn't that what you said of Sheth and VE? Funny how they flipped town and both of them hated your little group. they both worked against town. VE blew the only chance town had in 3 days to lynch sandro all because he wanted to be a rogue. His play was horrendous. I mean think about it, his top two scumreads were me and Ace. Who gives a shit if he flipped town if his play was completely antitown the entire time? | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 15:29 GMT
#1232
| ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 15:30 GMT
#1233
The vote pattern fits and so does the in-thread behavior (and PM behavior as well) | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 16:02 GMT
#1241
It's so phenomenally bad that I can't believe the guy is still trying to play seriously. I guess it makes sense though, since it's practically 50/50 for him to be completely immune to town killing him. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#1254
I'll answer you in an hour or two, I need to take a nap. then we will commence with the talkings. I am not willfully ignoring you all, just exhausted. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 09 2012 00:31 GMT
#1268
How have your reads changed in light of the flip? Who should we kill then? | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 09 2012 03:19 GMT
#1270
| ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 25 2012 11:05 GMT
#1741
I literally did not give this information to anyone the night I died because up till the deadline I was unsure about the players I was PMing. Originally I planned on giving the info to syllo+meapak+gonzaw but only ended up telling about half of it to syllo (i.e that chaoser was town) When I died I hoped Meapak would realize why I didn't tell gonzaw anything in the last cycle; up till the day I died the vote patterns supported scum being between Palmar/Gonzaw/chaoser/Cephiro (not Wiggles as he had thought) ET didn't fit the pattern I was looking for and I did not have much contact nor many thoughts on him from what I can remember. He played very well though, props to him especially. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 25 2012 11:09 GMT
#1743
That type of fluke happened with Wiggles only in round A. I think meapak highlighted that in our spreadsheet or perhaps he found Wiggles behaviorally scummy, I'm not really sure. However, Wiggles didn't fit properly with any team based on the combined information and thus could not possibly be scum to me. Sadly I didn't talk to him as much as I could or should have, but I had to talk to quite a few people. I ignored my behavioral read of sloosh almost solely on the vote pattern analysis. Sadly the only problem was that Cephiro chose to play in such a fashion that linked him incredibly hard to BC and chaoser. The round A fluke only worked in scum's favor as it tied Cephiro perfectly to that scumteam. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 25 2012 11:14 GMT
#1744
On May 25 2012 20:08 Palmar wrote: There was a reason I took the opportunity to shoot you and syllo simultaneously. I feared exactly the wrath of the other had only one died. Yeah our knowledge of the setup was so minimal that I assumed if I gave syllo at least the more important half of my info (that I thought you were scum) and I died instead of him (I really didn't expect to die that night) that he could piece together the rest of it. He wasn't agreeing with the things I was telling him so I was also more reluctant to tell him the other things. I speculated with him for a while and decided I'd rather not tell anyone else. I should've thought of the scumteams combining their shots, but it didn't occur to me that we could both die. You played that well. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 25 2012 11:31 GMT
#1747
At some point into my last day I had 4/6 scum but the volatility of the game was increased further by the voting system. It rewarded idiots who wanted to make a point just to make a point. If mafia pisses off one townie then even if all the other townies consolidate their votes that single guy can end up screwing over the lynch. That happened this game not once, not twice, but at least THREE times. That's unprecedented in a game of mafia for a single person to have that much power. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 25 2012 20:35 GMT
#1765
every time you didn't die a part of me died instead lol | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 25 2012 22:09 GMT
#1770
For the most part when I was alive the only significant things I did were all with syllo. e: and then later some stuff with meapak but less so | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
May 25 2012 22:45 GMT
#1774
well, very big thanks to Ver and Incognito for hosting the game! thanks to the players for a mostly enjoyable experience. | ||
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