TL Mafia 'Area' LIII
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ghost_403
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Sorry I've been gone for the last day. The time I can spend in the thread is going to be limited for the next couple of days. After the 25th, I should be back to full steam. Now to find some scum. Only got 12 pages to go through. Shouldn't be too hard. | ||
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lol VE is probably scum. Accusing gonzaw of a scumslip is just terribad, and someone of his experience should know better. Also, the idea of a JK working against the town is such a fashion is WTF bad. If he was a noob, I would give him a pass, but he's not. He should know better than that. Sentinel obviously rolled scum this game. His filter has nothing of content, and when layabout called him out, it took him 15 minutes to unlurk, at which point he added nothing to the conversation. He's here, but not contributing at all. I think he would make an excellent Day 1 lynch. | ||
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Mattchew has nothing of content in his filter, and I don't have anything substantial in my notes on him. It will be interesting to see if that improves as we get further into the game. | ||
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@marv: I agree with gonzaw. Stop giving us excuses and help us find scum. Pending the results of his usefulness, I think I'm not disinclined to lynching Marv today. | ||
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That note stems directly from your "There can't be more than 3 vigs" comment. Apparently, it's because you were paying attention to something else. Okay, that's fine, whatever. Why do you keep bringing this up? Who cares? Stop watching TV while posting, and find scum. As a town, we have better things to do than discuss why you did something dumb. | ||
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@gonzaw: I don't like everyone voting all over the place, but I can see exactly what you're saying, so I'm going to ##vote [UoN]Sentinel because I think he's playing the scummiest at the moment. (This me not liking to vote is really something I need to get out of my usual play.) VE's disappearance from should be noted. As far as this change of heart, I don't see it as a change of heart. Not all bad play is scummy play. What I was trying to get across there is that I think that Sentinel is the better lynch out of the two of them. @johnny: I hate writing up cases against people. I pointed it out that I think he's scummy here. I think big posts are a waste of time and space, but that's probably why no one listens to me in these games. brb, writing up a big poast. | ||
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BIG POAST TIEM or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Decided to Lynch Sentinel 3 posts really doesn't give you much to go on. + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 11:39 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Just wondering, what's the chance gonzaw's not mafia but just making an extremely retarded point? At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues. I don't like this post. It reading this post out of context implies that everyone has already come to the conclusion that gonzaw is mafia, when that isn't at all what's happening in the thread. Up to this point, VE is the only person who's pushed this idea at all. IMO, this is him hedging his bets. I can see him allowing a gonzaw lynch, gonzaw flips green, and him saying "Called it! I'm townie!" In addition, this is not how you discuss another posters post. Just saying "I don't agree" is not the least bit helpful to the town. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 01:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm starting to think all of you people purposely post when I sleep Let's do it like this - everyone just do whatever the fuck they want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. If it's not beneficial in some way to town, then lynch them. If there's one thing I know, it's that voting/lynching/etc. plans always benefit mafia because they can pull them to their advantage (and also you get lynched when your plan especially sucks). Keeping in mind with this train of thought, I will proceed to do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. When I get back, I'll read filters and try and put more on the table. "Hey guys, let's not work together at all!" Towns have to work together. Instead, he's encouraging anarchy, and giving himself a pass to do it. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 01:58 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Shit, should've stayed AFK. I wanted a pun too Worthless post, and it was posted 15 minutes after layabout's original post. I'm pretty sure Ver said something about lurkers posting exactly this way in his guide. Clearly, he's here. Clearly he's not doing anything. At this point, Sentinel has had plenty of time to contribute something, anything, to this town, and he has not. I believe that this is not because he is busy, but because he's scum. tl;dr - vote sentinel. | ||
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BTWs, 15 minute warning. I'm hungry. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + You guys are really cutting into my internet spaceships time.+ Show Spoiler + Point 1) I totally agree with sloosh's point here. VE's idea that a JK would work against a claimed vig is just stupid, and one of the first things he said that made me think that he was scum. Point 2) I thought his scumslip argument was stupid. Said that already. Point 3) Yeah, I agree with that. VE avoided discussing most of his counterarguments. Point 4) I agree with this. Well, I'm sold. I'm happy with a VE lynch. VE today, Sentinel tomorrow? BONUS: Hey! Sentinel decided to join us! | ||
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On April 22 2012 10:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: No, this is called "Disregard bandwagon, acquire opinions." I wanted my question answered, and thus I asked the question. Also I have a penchant for making acidic posts like that one. If you don't like it, I'm doing my job right. My problem is there wasn't a bandwagon. You make it sound like the entire town has gonzaw up on the gallows, when really it's just VE standing in the center of the town screaming that gonzaw is scum. Also, that wasn't a question. This is you making a statement, trying to look like you're contributing. Tell me, did you get your quesiton answered? Yes. I have a vote, and thus I must decide how to use that vote well. I'd rather have anarchy than offering up precious resources (vigilantes) onto the sacrificial table to find who's godfather and who isn't. Invisible Hand Principle - when people act in their self-interest, as long as they're not stupid about it, it benefits others as well. Individual ambition benefits society, or in this case the town. Just no. Towns work together or they lose. "It's my meta" is not a good counter to "I think you're useless." Stop being useless and find me some scum. | ||
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I really don't like the fact that Sentinel immediately jumped on the lynch BM bandwagon. Trying to lynch insane players is scummy in my book. Same goes for you Mattchew. Why would scum even try to ninja vote? It makes way more sense to sheep instead. No one would have thought twice if BM had shown up in thread and said "lol VE scum ##vote VE". VE's claim is bad. He's doing the same thing that he did in TLM LI in claiming when there's no reason to. I can't imagine scum VE doing the same thing twice, but now we're into WIFOM territory. In addition, JK is the only nonconfirmable role in the game. A vig shot shows up in the day post, and a tracker can confirm where someone went that night. It only makes sense that scum VE would claim JK. | ||
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@paqman: I'm still where I'm at last night: VE or Sentinel. Sentinel has only become more scummy in my book for jumping on the BM bandwagon like there's no tomorrow, and immediately voting against the person who called you out for lurking is a classic chainsaw defense. I still have no idea what VE is doing, and I don't see a good reason to buy his JK claim. It doesn't make sense to claim so far before the lynch. | ||
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My bad. That knocks him into second place in my list of people I think are scummy. When I have more time, I'll look back into the Sentinel == scum thing. Working on a Linear Algebra problem at the moment. brb | ||
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Bill Murray is playing a game that's insane, but he's doing it over there and leaving the town alone. VE is playing a game that's insane, but he's doing it in such a way that the town cannot function efficiently. Disruptive insane play is far more lynch worthy than weird incomprehensible im-gonna-do-whatever-the-fuck-i-want play. @paqman: If a vig shoots BM and he doesn't die, it makes sense that the vig would claim it in thread. A jail keeper would be forced to admit to jailing BM in thread, but I can't see that happening. If the vig claim is true, we lynch BM and he flips GF. If it's not, BM flips town, and the next day we lynch the counterclaiming scum. Win-win. | ||
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marvellosity - 2 Votes BlazingJitsu BroodKingEXE VisceraEyes - 7 Votes slOosh marvellosity Bill Murray Ottoxlol VisceraEyes layabout [uon]sentinel Mattchew - 1 Vote PaqMan layabout - 1 Vote Risen [UoN]Sentinel - 1 Vote ghost_403 ghost_403 - 0 Vote Bill Murray - 2 Votes Mattchew St. Daniel risen - 3 votes gonzaw paqman janaan johnnywup - 2 votes midnightGladius mementoss zephridd - 1 votes johnnywup At least, according to my calculations. | ||
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I'm not really seeing why Risen is scum. Sure, he's loud, obnoxious and belligerent, but that doesn't say anything about his alignment. I'm still pretty happy with a VE lynch. I thought he was scum before he claimed, and I don't buy his claim. Even if his claim is true, he's functioning in an anti-town manner. Also, I'm surprised that no one has brought up the point that he's pretty much ragequit. Marvellosity is still posting nothing of content. I'd be down with that lynch. | ||
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@Johnnywup: Your lynch isn't going to happen today. Who's your next choice? | ||
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On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time. I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim. Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess. I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel. ##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 07:10 Risen wrote: No one is going to pay attention to you. You're an idiot. WHAT WAGON DID I JUMP ON. I never even placed my vote on marv. Go look at the voting thread. derpderpderp, I'm hurrdurrPaq, I don't actually read anything, I just jump on Gonzaw's case, say I'm going to be away, but actually never leave when Risen comes to defend himself. | ||
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On April 23 2012 06:29 Risen wrote: I haven't even placed my vote on marv yet >.> It is my intention to do so, though. Everyone on VE should be shot/lynched. I'll vote for anyone on him. Only an idiot would vote for VE and we're better off with all of them dead. | ||
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I'll be traveling for the rest of the day, more or less. I'm going to try to get on while I've got some downtime inbetween flights, but no promises. Hopefully, I can be on for a bit tonight. | ||
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Time to catch up on the thread. brb FYI, my plan for catching up on the thread means reading to everything past the night post, then returning through the events of Day 1. Probably going to take a while, but I'm not going to bed until I post something constructive. I'm a bawse like that. | ||
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When day hits, I'll post what I think is still relevant. | ||
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The other thing that I don't like about Ottoxlol is the fact that he's not hunting scum at all. If you take a look through his filter, his suggestions for lynches are all lurkers. There's 50 pages in this thread, and he can't find any scum who are posting? I assumed it was due to the fact that he's a newb, but newbs roll scum too. @ottoxlol: If you don't want me to try and get you lynched today, start hunting some scum. You want to suggest someone who isn't lurking and/or insane? | ||
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On April 24 2012 01:51 Mementoss wrote: What is the point keeping your vote on someone who is not going to get lynched? It is the same as having no vote, cause you actions have no influence on who is going to get voted out. Its a very anti-town thing to do imo. I would say anyone that was around not voting Marv BM Risen or VE, at the end of the day wasted their vote. As a result, scums 4 votes became ever more powerful in taking a blue away from us. At the end of the day if you weren't convinced VE was scum per sae, would it not have been better to lynch someone who was vanilla rather than someone who was JK? Cause if VE wasn't red he was blue. At the end of the day, I voted to lynch scum. (Bonus! Sentinel has done nothing to change my opinion of him thus far.) As I said before, I would have changed my actions if there was a chance of my vote effecting (or is it affecting? lolidk) the outcome, I would have switched. I thought VE was scum, and I acted on that by choosing not to change my vote and push for someone else. I don't really see what the problem is. | ||
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Let's look at Sentinel's posts from last night! Poast 1 "I was totally onboard for the VE lynch before VE was". Who cares? What does this add to the thread? How does this help us hunt scum? MG's idea that the scum voted to lynch VE before the townies is flawed to begin with, and now he somehow wants more credit for it? On April 24 2012 09:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Wait... how the hell do you brand Risen green because of "town meta"? I think his aggressive-defensive bipolarity kinda ruined that aspect. If anything makes him green is that he backed VE till the end. Scum love making townie reads, because it saves them the trouble of scum hunting. You have nothing to say about the fact that Mattchew thinks you're scum? I'd be pissed if I ended up red on that list. On April 24 2012 09:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm in Star Battle so I won't make the deadline. I'll probably post some once I'm done, closer to 14:00 GMT (+00:00) "I'm going to give myself an excuse not to post so I can avoid scumslipping." On April 24 2012 10:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Fuck, have to push back my reply to tomorrow early morning. See above. On April 24 2012 10:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm posting exactly seven hours from now. I think I'll make it. See above. There's no reason for a townie to have this little content in the game. One post with a decent thought is all I ask for. Just one. One post where I can look back and agree or disagree with what you have to say. Instead, this. Nothing of content. The lack of content from Sentinel is due to the fact that's he's terrified of being caught. That's 'cause Sentinel rolled scum. ##vote [UoN]Sentinel | ||
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@marv: Ottoxlol's posting history shows him posting outside the TLMafia subforum, so I'm leaning newbie on him. However, some of the stuff that I've seen him do in thread has made me think he's "newbie scum" as opposed to "newbie town". BJ's (lol) case addresses some of that. I really need to work on reading newbie towns, so that is something I think I would like to work on. | ||
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I think I've got enough time to respond to your previous post now. I'll post that in a minute. | ||
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On April 24 2012 18:40 BlazingJitsu wrote: [...] This says absolutely nothing. This is Ottoxlol trying to push people who were on the VE wagon with some unhelpful WIFOM. Paying close attention to this post, you'll realize he doesn't actually push anyone as scum. This is unhelpful shitty dick play. This is scum play that he set up D1. This is Ottoxlol trying to pool the proverbial wool over the town's eyes by trying to appear helpful. [...] You're recapping what happened the previous day in an effort to post something of content. It's not. We're playing the game, we know what happened, we don't need you to tell us this. Instead, we need you to post stuff that we don't already know, like who you think is scum and why. Your response to this: I wrote that I don't have a good read that's why i did not push. I started to look into the names that came up and I felt none of them was convincing so I made a post that maybe can help others. How is that anti-town? It's useless. Lists of what happened are useless. Being useless is anti-town. That's why it's anti-town. We need you scumhunting, and that's not what you're doing. It's very easy to understand how a new player would make this mistake, and again, that's why I haven't pushed you onto the gallows yet. But, as we're continuing to play, it's obvious that you're still not contributing, and it's getting harder for me to distinguish between newbie town and newbie scum. I'm pretty sure someone wrote a guide on this exact thing somewhere, and I fully intend to bring it up when I get a chance. On April 25 2012 02:20 Ottoxlol wrote: but ghost, no one made any case but Mementoss and MG So everyone else is scum? Or we don't have any reads because no one is suspicious enough? Thats why everyone thinking on lynching lurkers or me. Not everyone has pushed no reads. We're not talking about just today, we're talking about the course of the entire game. You really haven't pushed anything the whole game (Asserted WithOut Proof - AWOP). So, no. I don't think they are all scum. Just the ones who post nothing while trying to look useful. | ||
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On April 25 2012 03:10 ghost_403 wrote: @MIxMasterToss: I could see that. Alright, let's lynch Sentinel today, and Ottoxlol tomorrow. Sound good? which is the first time that I began to push for an Ottoxlol lynch. | ||
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##unvote [UoN]Sentinel ##vote ottoxlol | ||
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Guys. Risen claimed scum in thread. There's no need for WIFOM about why he screws up the vote and ended Day 2 with us lynching a townie. The fact of the matter is he screws up the vote and ended Day 2 with us lynching a townie. That's the only thing that's important. I believe that the scum chose to do this in order to protect their KP. Risen rolled GF, Ottoxlol rolled scum. It makes sense that they would sacrifice Risen in order to protect their KP for one more night. Let's step back again away from all of the WIFOM and take a look at what happened yesterday again: 1) Town thinks Ottoxlol is scummy and moves to lynch him. 2) Town is ready to lynch Ottoxlol right up to the deadline. 3) Risen's vote stops us from lynching Ottoxlol. There is no reason for a town Risen to do this. Period. Therefore, Risen must be scum. The path ahead of us is clear. If you're a JK/Tracker, actions on Ottoxlol tonight. If you're a vig, shoot Risen tonight. | ||
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@Ottoxlol: Easy. You're not a townie. @Marv: They didn't, which necessitated drastic measures. WIFOM warning: Perhaps they were preparing to let the town lynch Otto, and wanted to buy some townie credit through the exchange. Later on in the day, the Zeph movement picked up steam, allowing them the option of sacking Risen for Otto. @johnny: There is a lot better chance of Risen arguing his way out of the lynch as "I'm a stupid townie" than "I voted in such a way that a townie was lynched". Makes sense to me. Also, you're ignoring the fact that there's no reason for a townie to do something so foolish as to switch his vote back after his vote caused a lynch. That's something scum would do. | ||
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##vote ottoxlol | ||
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On April 28 2012 03:54 johnnywup wrote: I don't like this push on ottox. he may be scum but i don't think his lynch is beneficial today tbh. this feels like a scum attempt to push a lynch. + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2012 03:00 BroodKingEXE wrote: OMG. St. Daniels voted for Zeph without posting in this thread or using reasoning. If he was town he would have provided some sort of reason or even a vote in the thread. ##Vote: St. Daniels yeah we know but his flip isn't going to help us catch other scum On April 28 2012 03:36 Risen wrote: I agree completely. Which is why ##vote MidnightGladius jk, back from classes. Gimme a while since I'm playing eve atm what do you mean jk? you don't think mg is scum? also neither of you posted your vote in the voting thread. . . Johnnywup, this post is so scummy, I can't even stand it. You state "he may be scum" and "i don't think his lynch is beneficial to us today" in the same sentence. Protip: Lynching scum is always beneficial to town. If you think he's not scum, prove it instead of making baseless and contradictory comments. | ||
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On April 26 2012 08:57 Risen wrote: ##unvote: Ottoxlol ##Vote: Zephirdd On April 26 2012 08:59 Risen wrote: ##unvote: Zephirdd ##Vote: Ottoxlol These votes were what ended the day with a mislynch. Without Risen's actions, we would have ended the day with the lynch of Ottoxlol. Is Ottoxlol scum? We don't know for sure yet. The only way to confirm anyone in this game is to make them flip. The hosts will tell us the truth. What we do know is this: Zephridd was not scum, and Risen's actions proved this to be true. Why did Risen ultimately do this? Well, there are four possible scenarios which we need to cover before we can answer this question. In this game, there are four possible alignment combinations for Risen and Ottoxlol.
(1) makes the most sense to me. A scum forced a mislynch in order to save his scum buddy. The only way that this would make sense is if Ottoxlol is a goon and Risen is not. The scum would in this case be trading Risen for a KP for another night. It's a good trade on their part. If they are good about it, maybe they can even convince the town that Risen just did something stupid. There are four of them left in a town of 13. Just might work out. (2) is just plain stupid. Risen would be jepordizing himself in order to gain, what, an extra mislynch? Day 2 mislynches Zephridd, Day 3 lynches Risen, Day 4 mislynches Ottoxlol? That's a bad plan that goes against their wincon. No, this isn't the case. (3) and (4) both can be covered by the same logic. Town Risen might risk his neck swapping from one candidate to another, but why back? Does Risen not know the vote count, that a switch to Zephridd would seal his fate? Risen has a last minute change of heart, and regrets his decision? Unlikely. A townie in this situation would cast his vote, then return to the town saying "You're as much to blame for this as me." It did take a town to lynch Zephridd. So why not own it? Why the switch back? The only answer that you can arrive at to understand that is "Risen is bad." So there you have it, folks. There are two possible explanations for what happened last night. Either Risen is scum, or Risen is bad. I believe Risen has played enough games for me to know that he's not terrible at this game. He knows what's going on, and I believe that last night he played to his wincon perfectly. It's just not the same as ours. I believe that (1) is what happened last night, and that's why I voted to lynch Ottoxlol today. But ghost! How did the scum get themselves into this position? Why did Risen sack himself? Why don't you care what he did before he voted to lynch Zephridd? To answer you: Don't know, don't care. What I know is this. There is no reason for a town Risen to do what he did other than he's terrible. I don't think Risen is terrible. Ask the scum how it ended up happening after the game. Right now, there's one thing I'm doing, and one thing you should be doing: ##vote ottoxlol + Show Spoiler + Already did this, added for DRAMATIC emphasis. | ||
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But ghost! How did the scum get themselves into this position? Why did Risen sack himself? Why don't you care what he did before he voted to lynch Zephridd? To answer you: Don't know, don't care. What I know is this. There is no reason for a town Risen to do what he did other than he's terrible. I don't think Risen is terrible. Ask the scum how it ended up happening after the game. | ||
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If anyone thinks what Ottoxlol said about me has any merit, bring it up and I'd be happy to talk about it. At no point did anyone write: But ghost! Why do you think Ottoxlol is scum? I'm glad you asked. | ||
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(1) His content is almost completely filler. + Show Spoiler + First of all, I would like to address the glaring fact that his filter has nothing of content in it. 7 pages. 7 pages, and I have almost nothing to say about them. They are mostly one liners and him giving excuses for everything that he does. It would be so much easier to prove that he was scum if he would just do something, anything. Unfortunately for him, at this point his lack of content now paints him as scum. 7 pages, and no content? Scum trying to pass off as useful without actually helping the town. (2) He almost completely ignores St.Daniels throughout the entire game. + Show Spoiler + It's interesting that now he claims that I soft defended StDaniels. It's the fourth time this game he's mentioned him. When were the first three?
I'm soft defending him by stating that I'm ignoring someone en route to being modkilled? No, I'm not going to even discuss someone who's not playing. It's a waste of time. What's your excuse for ignoring him literally the entire game? (3) He makes stupidly scummy posts. + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 00:57 Ottoxlol wrote: Ok, post it when you got it drawn. I feel like the pressure is on me because I did not make any useful post d2, and i feel its really unfair when no one really did so. I am thinking on the line of who should we lynch that gives us info. VE wagon seemed like a good start to look at, I made 3 pairs who seems to defend each other/attack the same persons. If we lynch anyone from that we can get information about the other half of the pair. This post is so scummy that any veteran player would have been immediately lynched. I was pretty happy to give him the n00b pass, but I don't think that's a good idea. In this post,
How gloriously scummy. How did we get here? On April 25 2012 08:03 Ottoxlol wrote: [...] johnnywup I missed this case before, I think a couple of ppl too because no one really talked about this. I am feeling confident voting for johnny. ##Vote: johnnywup You think Johnny is kinda sorta maybe sheeping because he doesn't give out any strong reads one way or the other (which is, ironically, the same thing that you're doing), and therefore he's scum. So what made you change your mind? On April 26 2012 05:29 Ottoxlol wrote: Because if he would be scum he wouldn't try to sway ppl from my vote (if zeph or sent is scum). Johnny was sheeping away from you. Hey, isn't that why you wanted to lynch him in the first place? On April 26 2012 05:33 Ottoxlol wrote: My vote was wasted on him anyways because no one is voting for him. Since I am the vote leader atm, I have to vote for the 2nd guy, even if I feel like someone is more likely to be scum. "Don't blame me if the guy we flip isn't scum, because I'm just voting for not-me." This is such a terribly scummy post, it's not even funny. Mafia pro-tip: vote to lynch scum. (4) He has completely sheeped on the last two lynches. + Show Spoiler + This segues nicely into my next problem with Ottoxlol: His voting patterns.
But why he voted the way he did was much more interesting. His reasons for voting VE have been beaten to death, so I'm not going to discuss it too much here. For voting Zeph: On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. But wait! That doesn't say anything about why he's voting Zeph! You are an astute reader! I can't find it. Ottoxlol has no reason to vote Zeph, other than to sheep with the town. For voting MG: On April 28 2012 07:19 Ottoxlol wrote: BM on MG also this post I have no idea why would anyone trust you because you say so. Excuses also doesnt help the scumhunt, I think no one cares about food poisoning or cat funerals. ##vote MidnightGladius BK started posting some weird stuff, hes voting St. Daniel for ninjavoting, but BM ninjavoted d1 too and he did not mention it at all. ghost and Sentinel doesnt want to engage in the debate of other possibilities then I am a scum. no one can be 100% sure so the discussion must be on even if they vote me, so when I flip green we will have information Another sheeping! "Here's someone else's case I found moderately compelling, and here's something that is kinda scummy." Well, MG flipped green and he's right. We found scum pushing for his lynch today. Frankly, it's embarassing that the town has let Ottoxlol live this long in the game. As soon as tomorrow hits, I'm voting to lynch him for the third day in a row, and I hope this time, we can get a sucessful lynch and get this scum out of the game. | ||
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I buy Sentinel's claim, lest someone else would like to counterclaim. Too bad, I was sure ottoxlol was a goon. This means I have to reconsider the whole Risen conspiracy It was such an elegant plan. | ||
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@everyone else: I'll have time to address everything against me after I get out of class. That should be in about two hours. brb | ||
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ghost mutters to himself: idiot. | ||
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For reference, the case by johnnywup and the case by BroodKingEXE. Johnny's case against me boils down to four points.
All of these points are easily addressed.
For BK's post,
I don't know what's going on in this post.
BK's case against me is a lot of incoherent ramblings (sorry, BK), so I find it difficult to respond to it. If he or anyone else feels I answered it inadequately, feel free to speak up. | ||
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My top two town reads are Sentinel and Mattchew. After I FoS'd him Day 1, he really turned his game around. Now, with his claim and lack of counterclaim, I view him as confirmed town. Mattchew's next, since he's been more or less behind me for quite some time now. The thing I find most scummy about him is he's not dead yet. ghost stops to ponder... Paqman reads null for me at the moment. I have been behind on keeping up on the game for a couple of days now, so I don't have an intelligent opinion on him. Skimming through his filter, I don't see anything too scummy, but tomorrow I'll post some deeper thoughts. Janaan is also null for me, but I always misread Janaan. BroodKing has struck me as slightly not town, but in a noobie sort of way, so I'll give him a pass. Bill Murray is insane, but I don't like how he doesn't interact with the town even when called out. But, like I've said a couple of times, BM is nuts, so I would hesitate to push a lynch on him. Risen has done the most scummy things in this game by a wide margin. Just a few of the things I don't like about him include his "say I'll vote someone then don't and pretend like I didn't" and screwing up the Ottoxlol lynch on Day 2. After that, he pretty much dropped out of the game. I don't like his play, and wouldn't hesitate to lynch him. Johnnywup has not done the most scummy things in this game. That's because he's not done a lot. One incident that sticks out to me in particular is how much he's flipflopped on the Ottoxlol lynch. He's okay with it, he's against it, nevermind let's do it. Take a look at the last couple of pages of his filter. He's all over the place. I don't know if that's par for the course for him, or this is his way of playing scum. After Ottoxlol's flip, I'm going to take a hard look at him and start figuring out exactly which role he rolled. And Ottoxlol is scum. | ||
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Because of this incident and his play in Aperture Mafia and TLM LI, I'm going to move him into the insane category, which I'm still trying to figure out how to read. I think, from now on, I'll just lynch him when he's making sense. | ||
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@johnnywup: Your objection to this lynch is noted, but I can't figure out why you're objecting. Mind explaining it to us? | ||
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A) All the scum jump on board and a few townies follow B) The decision is completely obvious I'm assuming that the town opted for (B) yesterday due to the fact that Ottoxlol had been pushed as a lynch candidate since Day 2, and I posted a case against him which no one save Ottoxlol himself disagreed with. If you had come back saying "Your case against him is wrong" or "Look, this is totally townie" or any kind of evidence based claim whatsoever, I would be inclined to give credence to your claim. Instead, you came back with "I had a gut feeling". | ||
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On April 28 2012 08:13 johnnywup wrote: Yeah I guess you're right marv. I've said time and time again that I think that this wasn't alignment indicative. looking on ottox's filter....and yeah he seems scummy now. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 16:57 Ottoxlol wrote: I don't get the sloosh kill btw, he contributed scarce, voted on VE. If not lynched he would have been pressured a lot today. Risen was the only one they both suspected to be scum, since sloosh kill has no other explanation then defending Risen I think he is town. he's criticizing scum for a kill (lol?).. and the other part of the post i can't get my head around. They both suspected risen to be scum, so risen is town? another thing: he avoids a lot of accusations and has a lot of useless posts (if not all), and he votes me by sheeping MG then unvotes me for this reason: if you can call that a reason. I "defend" him, so he gets off my back. then "has to vote zeph" while soft defending risen On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. theres an awful lot of soft defending risen UNTIL....RIGHT BEFORE NIGHT ENDS?! On April 26 2012 08:52 Ottoxlol wrote: So its seems like ill get lynched, ill post my thoughts MG + Risen are most likely scum. Zeph Sent Mementoss laya are my other candidates. Zeph had some very strange logic and posts Sent is getting better, but the VE lynch is still there. Mementoss said his problem with me that i did not scumhunt at all, I posted the case on VE d1, d2 I tried to be helpful, posted case, took a stance, he did not lift his vote contrary to his post. laya stated that i am most likely town, zeph is maybe then he voted me for the kill. in that same post, he says MG IS MOST LIKELY SCUM! Remember who he sheeped and voted me because of it? MG! WOW! 2 PEOPLE HE SEEMED TO THINK WAS TOWN ENDED UP IN HIS SCUM LIST RIGHT BEFORE DEADLINE! And I mean he was soft defending risen a LOT. in fact, a little more than an hour before that he posted: On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. But wait, in an hour he says that MG and Risen are most likely scum? .. so yeah, I think ottox is scum now. I want to note: NONE OF THIS is based on the vote/unvote from risen. But it does incriminate Risen and MG as possible scum buddies. On April 28 2012 08:25 johnnywup wrote: yeah i think the most telling thing is that risen said he would give a shit ton of reads then kept making excuses why he couldnt post at all, let alone make reads. I'm starting to think Risen and ottox ARE scum together, but not based on the voting shit. On April 29 2012 10:19 johnnywup wrote: Relying on modkills to do your work for you isn't very sportsmanlike imoimo good to see a goon gone though. i dunno what MG was up to today, but it certainly didn't help. sucks we lost another townie T_T if tracker, track ottox. if vig, shoot ottox. if JK, jail ottox. imoimo, at least. if you feel against it, then don't but I feel like ottox is a threat to the town at this point. On April 30 2012 10:08 johnnywup wrote: I want to lynch scum. But look for other scum other than ottox because if he dies than scum still has the KP. We want to reduce the KP to 0. If we do that it's smooth sailing. Do you not understand what I'm saying? On May 01 2012 10:57 johnnywup wrote: + Show Spoiler + Ok, first off theres Bill Murray. Verdict: Goon. Meta-reason: Compare his filter to his DFM2 posting (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=54241). He wasn't very active there either, but he made reads and took sides and made substantial posts. Here he tells people that they're wrong. That's it. He doesn't make a case or say anything unless he's directly responding to accusations against him. There are some examples of him responding to posts not about him, but they're still small and not relevant. He's scraping by lynches by not taking stances and that's unacceptable. He's scum. I'm not quoting him to point out certain points in his posting because all his posts are very similar. There's not too much for me to say about BM because he hasn't posted much. I think he's Goon because he's staying out of the spotlight as much as often. This makes him look more goon than GF because without Goon there isn't any KP left for mafia. Same concept for vigs (which we dont have anyways). The others are Godfather by default of me thinking that BM is Goon (since theres 1 left) and because they're not afraid to put themselves out in the open as much as BM. Then theres Ghost_403. Verdict: Godfather On April 22 2012 10:02 ghost_403 wrote: Ghost's response to sloosh's case on VE. + Show Spoiler + You guys are really cutting into my internet spaceships time.+ Show Spoiler + Point 1) I totally agree with sloosh's point here. VE's idea that a JK would work against a claimed vig is just stupid, and one of the first things he said that made me think that he was scum. Point 2) I thought his scumslip argument was stupid. Said that already. Point 3) Yeah, I agree with that. VE avoided discussing most of his counterarguments. Point 4) I agree with this. Well, I'm sold. I'm happy with a VE lynch. VE today, Sentinel tomorrow? BONUS: Hey! Sentinel decided to join us! On April 23 2012 01:28 ghost_403 wrote: I think a BM lynch is a terrible idea (vig shout would be fine though). I don't think I've ever seen a case where a ninja vote was due to someone being scum. There's too much risk and no reward for scum in this situation. I think he's just insane. I really don't like the fact that Sentinel immediately jumped on the lynch BM bandwagon. Trying to lynch insane players is scummy in my book. Same goes for you Mattchew. Why would scum even try to ninja vote? It makes way more sense to sheep instead. No one would have thought twice if BM had shown up in thread and said "lol VE scum ##vote VE". VE's claim is bad. He's doing the same thing that he did in TLM LI in claiming when there's no reason to. I can't imagine scum VE doing the same thing twice, but now we're into WIFOM territory. In addition, JK is the only nonconfirmable role in the game. A vig shot shows up in the day post, and a tracker can confirm where someone went that night. It only makes sense that scum VE would claim JK. I've said I think BM is scum. So this stuff makes perfect sense. Soft defending his scum mate, and attacking townies (who we now know are indeed townies) then we have: On April 23 2012 07:03 ghost_403 wrote: @johnnywup: I have no idea why you thought a few hours before the lynch was a good time to bring forward another lynch candidate. Seriously? I'm not really seeing why Risen is scum. Sure, he's loud, obnoxious and belligerent, but that doesn't say anything about his alignment. I'm still pretty happy with a VE lynch. I thought he was scum before he claimed, and I don't buy his claim. Even if his claim is true, he's functioning in an anti-town manner. Also, I'm surprised that no one has brought up the point that he's pretty much ragequit. Marvellosity is still posting nothing of content. I'd be down with that lynch. and 12 minutes later... On April 23 2012 07:15 ghost_403 wrote: BlazingJitsu, you down with a Risen lynch? then we have: On April 24 2012 11:26 ghost_403 wrote: Marv. Please flip town. Plzplzplzplzplzplz. Time to catch up on the thread. brb FYI, my plan for catching up on the thread means reading to everything past the night post, then returning through the events of Day 1. Probably going to take a while, but I'm not going to bed until I post something constructive. I'm a bawse like that. which I don't even understand. Why would you say "marv please flip town" unless you're scum and meant to say it in mafia qt? then he posts a case on sentinel (who we now know is town) On April 24 2012 21:15 ghost_403 wrote:+ Show Spoiler + which is actually a really really bad case, points out small things but no big picture scummy things. I'll admit I thought Sentinel was scum, but ghost is really grasping at straws with this case.Another thing that I was going to note last night was the fact that Sentinel has been lurking like a bawse through this whole game. If you take a look at what he wrote last night, he more or less claimed that he was onboard the VE lynch, and that's it. Sentinel is afraid of posting in this thread, because he's afraid he'll do something to out his scumbuddies. I thought he was scum yesterday, our townie friend sloosh thought he was scum before Sentinel killed him, and I think we should be lynching him today. I'm guessing that he rolled goon, which is why he's so afraid to get caught. Scum KP should drop to 1 after we lynch Sentinel. Let's look at Sentinel's posts from last night! Poast 1 "I was totally onboard for the VE lynch before VE was". Who cares? What does this add to the thread? How does this help us hunt scum? MG's idea that the scum voted to lynch VE before the townies is flawed to begin with, and now he somehow wants more credit for it? On April 24 2012 09:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Wait... how the hell do you brand Risen green because of "town meta"? I think his aggressive-defensive bipolarity kinda ruined that aspect. If anything makes him green is that he backed VE till the end. Scum love making townie reads, because it saves them the trouble of scum hunting. You have nothing to say about the fact that Mattchew thinks you're scum? I'd be pissed if I ended up red on that list. On April 24 2012 09:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm in Star Battle so I won't make the deadline. I'll probably post some once I'm done, closer to 14:00 GMT (+00:00) "I'm going to give myself an excuse not to post so I can avoid scumslipping." On April 24 2012 10:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Fuck, have to push back my reply to tomorrow early morning. See above. On April 24 2012 10:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm posting exactly seven hours from now. I think I'll make it. See above. There's no reason for a townie to have this little content in the game. One post with a decent thought is all I ask for. Just one. One post where I can look back and agree or disagree with what you have to say. Instead, this. Nothing of content. The lack of content from Sentinel is due to the fact that's he's terrified of being caught. That's 'cause Sentinel rolled scum. ##vote [UoN]Sentinel then ghost starts to get on the ottox train after BJ makes a long post about him: On April 24 2012 21:05 ghost_403 wrote: Haha, chainsaw defense. I've been giving Ottoxlol a noob pass since Day 1, but perhaps BJ is right. I'd be down with a Ottoxlol lynch. The other thing that I don't like about Ottoxlol is the fact that he's not hunting scum at all. If you take a look through his filter, his suggestions for lynches are all lurkers. There's 50 pages in this thread, and he can't find any scum who are posting? I assumed it was due to the fact that he's a newb, but newbs roll scum too. @ottoxlol: If you don't want me to try and get you lynched today, start hunting some scum. You want to suggest someone who isn't lurking and/or insane? Which is taking a "I think you're a newb" to a "I think you're scum and I'm gonna lynch you unless you do something productive" standpoint. Huge change. This is because of BJs case but I feel like this was a perfect opportunity for ghost to get some "town cred". Then he exaggerates risens voteswitch as "claiming scum". Then of course ghost goes hardcore down on lynching ottox, which I still think is to gain towncred by lynching a scum. I still think ottox is scum but I don't think that. Then there's ottox. There's been tons of cases against Ottox so I don't feel like I need to repeat things. I think Ottox is a Godfather. Oh, by the way, once Ottox flips scum, he left a trail to lead Ghost to "being town". This post just says "when i die at least my scum mate will look a lot more townie". GG On May 02 2012 08:13 johnnywup wrote: Well, BM "counter claimed" with vig then was like nvm im green. So I don't count that. Ok, why don't we just lynch BM, if you think BM is scum too? Why does ottox have to be today? We have 50 minutes left and I think we can change the lynch to BM in that time. I don't like how many votes are on ottox despite me thinking he's scum, like I said, which makes me like a BM lynch more. I get that we'll still be talking about ottox tomorrow but he's not a goon so even if we do lynch him we're at the same place tomorrow. (-1 townie, -1scum, unless Sentinel JK's correctly, but he'll most likely be killed anyways). If we lynch the Goon we're in a good position. If we lynch the GF we're in about the same position. Weird, reading these quotes, it makes it sound like you thought that Ottoxlol was scum. | ||
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I need some time, a lot of time, to think about this. I like Mattchew's explanation mainly because I've thought Risen was scum for a long time, and Sent's contributions are lesser considering Ottoxlol flipped town. But, the more I thought about it today, the scummier Mattchew seemed for reasons I can't quite put my finger on. I'm going to have to think about this long and hard. I'll post my thoughts tomorrow. | ||
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In addition to that, Risen has been playing scummy as fuck all game long. I doubt I could find a single page in his filter where he doesn't say something that doesn't make him look like either a terrible townie or scum. Mattchew's claim is consistent with my read on Risen. The decrease in scumminess that I saw from Sentinel was mostly due to him actually being moderately aggressive in pushing for an Ottoxlol lynch. Now that we know that Ottoxlol was a townie, this can very easily be attributed to scum being called out and forced to do something in the game. I would propose lynching Risen first, and taking it from there. @mattchew: That's the worst breadcrumb I've ever seen. | ||
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Mattchew's right, we should have lynched him days ago just to get him out of the game. @BM: Of course the scum held their kill last night. If you weren't the goon, and Mattchew hadn't counterclaimed, they could have easily pushed the town to mislynch you. gg @mattchew: One thing I don't get is why your theory makes Bill Murray confirmed town. There are three scum left in the game, and your theory only accounts for two of them. | ||
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We have Sent 'jail' BM again, which regardless of his claim leaves us in a pretty good location. We can WIFOM it over the night. I think lynching Risen is the best option. Sent, Mattchew, does this sound like a decent compromise to you both? Also, we need everyone in the town in on this, or the scum are just going to ninja vote this away from us. | ||
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The reason that I want a compromise is this. This is lylo, which means that if the town doesn't work together, it loses. I want a compromise so that the scum agree to work with us, and can't screw up our lynch at the last possible moment. Also, you're right. That post looks scummy as fuck. Don't blame you for pointing that out. | ||
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@johnnywup: You don't have a bad case against me, but I think it's counterproductive to discuss it right now. If anyone else would like me to address it now rather than later, I would be happy to. I'm going to resume drudging through Mattchew's and Sentinel's filters. Only one of them can be town. At this point, I feel it's going to be easier to find the townie between the two of them rather than the scum. I would encourage everyone else to examine this problem in the same way. | ||
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If/when we lynch scum tonight, I would be more than happy to discuss lynching me. Right now, we have better things to do. I'm still trying to figure out which one of them is town. I've found both a town and scum game from Sent, but only town for Mattchew. Can anyone point me to one where he rolled scum? | ||
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There are only three blue roles in the game. VE flipped JK, Mementoss flipped tracker. That means that either you or Mattchew are the final blue. | ||
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I can't see Sentinel fake claiming JK from Day 1 if he was scum for this exact situation. His breadcrumb is the same in this game as it was in NMM I. He played medic in that game. Unfortunately, I still think his plan is poorly thought out. Scum could have easily held their KP last night. Bill Murray has played an insane game thus far, which is unfortunately par for the course for him, meaning I'm not convinced he's confirmed scum. If Sentinel really is right, we should be lynching Mattchew today. | ||
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In this game, there was really only one thing that stood out in Mattchew's filter. That fact was the fact that he spent a lot of the first two or three days directing the vigilante. If he really was the vig, why didn't he shoot earlier? He tells the town plenty of people to shoot, but never does until Night 3. He shot Risen for the scummy behavior that happend Day 2, no less. The wait here is also curious. Meanwhile, Sentinel has been playing more or less useless throughout the entire game. His cases are uninspired and shallow, and don't get too deep into player analysis. However, I have found that this is consistent with his play in other games. He's simply not super aggressive with his cases overall, which is unfortunately indistinguishable from scummy play. Fun fact: my legion is not cap stable running the rep (shitty skills) and just lost it in a totally avoidalbe fashion. Fuck my life. brb, Eve emergency. | ||
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##vote mattchew | ||
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I'll write up my thoughts on this in a bit. Already lost one internet spaceship today, don't feel like making that two. | ||
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GG Had a blast with all of you. Thanks to the hosts for hosting. Really appreciate the time you guys put into this. | ||
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Day 2: I was gone most of this day, so I don't really know what happened. Day 3: RISEN CLAIMED SCUM IN THREAD. People WIFOM'd their way around this more than I ever could have guessed. I wish I could have persuaded people to lynch Risen. It was soooo scummy, he deserved to get lynched for that move regardless of his alignment. It did "confirm" Ottoxlol as scum to me. Ottoxlol, I'm sorry, but you played this game really poorly. Better luck next time! Day 4: We pushed for the Ottoxlol lynch and got it pretty early. Johnnywup nailed it when he said that the lynch felt wrong, but Ottoxlol's play was so bad, I think it was justified. @JW: Gut instinct is a good reason to take a closer look at what's going on in the game, but you have to have something to back it up. Also, stop flipflopping. I mean, seriously. You were all over the place. Day 5: Sent nailed the JK claim. As soon as Mattchew claimed vig in thread, I knew it felt wrong, but I could never quite nail down why. I did everything to try to prove to myself it was one way or the other, but just completely ran out of steam at the end. Also, JW pushing me as a lynch candidate actually confirmed him as town to me, but that was definitely the wrong time to do that. Scum did deserve this win, as a town we played poorly. For reference, my scum team at the end of the game was Mattchew, Janaan, and Risen, continuing my streak of misreading Janaan. Where were you all game? And again, gg to everybody. I had a lot of fun playing this game. Thanks again to the hosts. I really appreciate the time and effort you guys put into making this game fun. Now to actually start playing TLM LIV. XD | ||
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