EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 15 2012 03:46 Mattchew wrote: /in Hopefully mattchew is not on the scum team he might out them all on his death  jk <3 | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 15 2012 18:20 Incognito wrote: Half the mafia are immune to night KP, which makes vigs more than useless. Why are the mafia being rewarded for good town play? Why are they being further rewarded when the vig dies? Then you increase volatility further by concentrating mafia KP into 2 of their members and allow the mafia KP to be halved after the 1st mafia death, and eliminated after 2. Keep in mind with a good vig shot we half the mafia KP | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 21 2012 09:24 Mattchew wrote: what about roleblockers laya? Not a role, but I guess mafia could switch there KP to kill the vigs. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 21 2012 09:52 johnnywup wrote: I think the plan falls apart if there isn't either a vig or a tracker, which is why I brought up that it's possible we don't have a vig. And what stops mafia from claiming vig then killing? Tracker sees that they kill the person that they kill, but hey it's a misfire right? Possibly, then if we policy lynch failed vig shots we could possibly waste lynches killing townies. But we wouldn't know anyways. So I feel like the plan is flawed from that perspective. . Well Vigs come up GF and cant kill while Goons can kill. So if someone claims misfire and you double track them, you can confirm goon if they shoot again. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 21 2012 10:05 johnnywup wrote: Mementoss, I never said it wasn't productive. I only said it was hypothetical. I didn't say hypothetical=unproductive. I think it's very important to talk about this kinda stuff right now. It seems like a waste to go through things that possibly aren't even in the game. Also I'm just saying that say a scum could give an opinions towards the town that directs blue in a way that doesn't benefit town. I'm not sure of the best course of action towards vig. Im trying to think why a scum would want to claim vig. If there goon and they get tracked they are going to get killed. If they are GF they just bring attention to themselves. I guess they could claim a shot that didn't go through as there would be no counter claim and try to kill an innocent townie by making them look like a mafia. But its a suicide plan. VE says kill all claimed vig shots, or tracked vig shots. On the face this seems scummy as you might kill a town. But I think it is a reasonable point. If you kill a claimed shot, you have at least a 40% (if 3 vigs 2 GF) chance of hitting scum, but it is more likely 50%(2 vigs 2 GF) or 66%(1 vig 2 GF). That is assuming a townie wouldnt be stupid enough to lie and fake the claim. The only problem is we really can't verify if we killed scum or not. But this might scare real vigs away from claiming shots. Sooo not sure what to do. Lol. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 21 2012 10:37 gonzaw wrote: If mafia claim vig, and claim to shoot a target, and then do so with their own KP, this can happen:
I guess this means that maybe the GF's won't fake-claim vig, and the Goons will instead? In that case, if we ever lynch him, he will flip Goon and we will know 100% that he was scum when he's lynched. If he was GF and we lynched him, since he would flip GF we wouldn't be 100% sure he was scum. So to fake-claim, scum have to choose between: -Being protected from trackers, but not creating confusion if they ever get lynched, nor having to rely on JK's to claim their shots or -Creating confusion if they ever get lynched, but not relying on JK's to claim their shots, nor being protected from trackers. The point is that they have to choose, they HAVE to do something. We will force them to react to our plans, and hopefully they fuck up their plans/fake-claims and we catch them easily. I think your messing up here Goon would never claim vig. He would need to claim hitting a godfather, then we lynch that person they come up not godfather and we half the mafia KP. Or he says jailkeeper saved the shot, then jailkeeper could counter claim. Or we could just kill the vig claimer right there. Also GF does not have KP. He will need to claim hitting a GF, or jailkeeper. Then we do the same as above. I really see no reason to fake claim as mafia, unless its a special late game circumstance. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
1. Vigilantes do not claim. 2. Vigilantes do not shoot. That is until.... 3. Vigilantes CAN shoot after 2 GF's drop. But Mementoss this is a WASTE OF TOWNS BLUES. You know what no, vigilantes rarely ever hit. And in this case if they do hit they have a 50% chance it doesnt go through and we have no way of telling if they are lieing or not. So fuck that. The best case scenario for us is mafia killing our vigilantes by mistake at night. That stops all confusion of the mechanic. So vigilantes, play like Vets, you wanna soak up night hits. Also butttt Mementosss this might be super duper late in the game. I don't care. THIS game is about killing the goons. GF kills can't be seen as helpful till late game when they are super confirmed, or if they are killed at night in which case they were a vig. Killing 1 goon is confirmed and halfs the mafia KP. Killing 2 goons, allows us to just chill with no night kills for mafia. Im confident we can win with 0 mafia KP. 4. After 2 GF's drop Vigs can start shooting (yay) But, claim your shots before you shoot them. This means, all Jailkeepers stay AWAY from the fucking targets. Vigs this means there is very little reason your KP shouldn't be apparent at the night. The only way the night KP doesn't go through is this. There are 2 vigs, or more. 1 GF is dead 1 Vig is dead. Vig shoots a GF. The probability of this situation seems very low imo. And even so in this case, we kill the claimer first then we kill the claimed shot. Worst case we go 1 for 1. Also if we are lucky mafia shoots a vig, which means a GF pops at night, in this case we wait till 3 GFs drop to shoot and claim. Vigs shots usually are only useful at killing lurkers, but they drop town numbers quick. With this fucked up mechanic I don't mind them not blowing there load early and saving for late game, where we have a lot better chance to kill goons. TLDR; -Vigs dont claim dont shoot until 2 GF's flip. (special circumstances 3) -Vigs play like vets -Vigs hurt town more then they help early game -GF's aren't the droids were looking for GOONS are the key to winning as town | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Mattchew paqman case Marvellousity case VE vs Gonzaw case | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Gonzaw: At first glance I think his plan looked pretty good. But after thinking about it, it seems fishy to put our blues in the open. It also tells scum whether or not we have tracker and jailkeeper if 2 vigs claim. Giving them more information then they need and giving them less fear about the possibility of them. Also it takes away the best case of the miller mechanic. Being killed at night, by mistake. I think my plan is superior. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=14#279) I think the "scum" slip is honestly VE reading it wrong. I think its just him meaning "us" as in the town. It felt like he genuinely wanted the town to use it. Also, I'm not saying ignore scum slips, but in more cases then not these slips are made by town. It can be used as supportive evidence but not as the main case on a lynch imo. I think a lot of VE's case against his plan is ignorant and uses JK mechanic but it was addressed by gonzaw. But, I think the case was in good mind trying to bring the discussion from mechanics, to scum hunting and pressuring. Also I know this gonzaws town meta from LI but he is spamming a bit again, sorta like HEY EVERYONE ALL ATTENTION ME sorta deal. This is consistent with his town play though. But stop spamming while your around you don't have to reply to every post and ask everyone to post about you, etc. Overall: Null leaning town VisceraEyes: The case against him by Gonzaw was purely OMGUS. It used an example of a scum slip as him being town for a defense, it didn't put anything against VE. It also says he doesn't explain why the plan is bad, even though VE went into excrutiating detail with why he wasn't on board. I think it's good that VE has came out to take discussion away from all this blue and mechanics into the scum hunting mode, even though his case is based on something that seems not lynch worthy. Then pushing it in an odd way, with one liners. Gonzaw makes the case all about him by saying basically you think my plan is bad and discrediting it, and I scumslipped while I was town. Overall: Null leaning town. Mattchew: Here is the whole OMGUS case against him: On April 21 2012 23:00 PaqMan wrote: BJ wtf did I just read. The only posts that made any sense was the one about the mass roleclaims and the fos on marvellosity, which I agree on. I think he'd be a good candidate for a vigi shot. I'm voting for mattchew. Dude's scummy as hell. Also, That's his only post since the game has started. He'd be a good vigi shot as well. ##Vote: Mattchew What is this I don't even. He contributed more than most people, that didn't even post or just posted agreeing statments. Like VE I think this was meant to be pressure towards you on fishy behaviour. Your OMGUS case also makes you seem more scummy as well as someone jumping right to your defense. Overall: Leaning Town Paqman: I don't think the case that Matthchew put against you was amazing, but it definitly pointed out some inconsistencies and wishy washyness, and made you post something other than, yeah I agree with gonzaw. It also showed your OMGUS reaction. Overall: Null leaning scum Marveoulosity: I agree completely with the BJ case against you. Your posting, while not contributing. Asking questions towards people, just to get responses, to make it look like your contributing to discussion. While never posting your own unique thoughts. Based on your other games, this seems very unlike you, as you rarely post these types of one liners, and usually are a contributer. BJ says it best, your lurking in plain site. Overall: Looking pretty scummy ##Vote: marvellosity | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
I scim thread I will read tommorrow,. it seems like saame old people aruguing like blahj blaj and everyon else is like fuck you im not gunna post shit./ like seriosuly the lurkers are laughing or are just bad, at this game also blazingjitse, more like fucking blazhing hand c u 2morrow | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Hes a vig looking to ensure his death N1 to get rid of a confusing GF mechanic Hes really bad at playing blue roles He somehow thought it would benefit him or the town but it really doesnt Trying to stop from getting lynched Reasoning for VE claiming as scum: Trying to get a counterclaim out of another JK making it less likely that VEs claim is true Trying to get more credibility and get someone killed on his "scum" list Trying to stop from getting lynched Trying to confuse the town The claim really doesn't make much sense either way. It reminds me a lot of his fake claim in LI where he was in fact scum. He claimed when the lynch could have went either way, and afterwards he claims to be the smartest player in history and lays out the whole scum team that he found. Gotta re-read to get a consensus on this play. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Lets go through this for you: -Lets Lynch Gonzaw (in this fashion FOR THE TOWN LYNCH GONZAW IM SURE HES SCUM) -Lets Lynch Bill Murray ( in the same fashion) Then this: On April 22 2012 13:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Do we lynch BM or Mattchew? This is the first time you've even mentioned Mattchew in your filter since your first joke vote. You give no reasoning behind the Mattchew suspicion at all. Then this: On April 22 2012 22:06 VisceraEyes wrote: The scum are Bill Murray, gonzaw, MidnightGladius, layabout as far as I can see. I want to kill BM first. Where'd Mattchew go? Now this: On April 22 2012 23:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not actually - I don't think I'm any better that anyone else - only slightly more experienced. I'm trying to use reason as a defense, but it's not really working. Anyway, I'd like to hear EVERYONE'S thoughts on the BH/Jitsu hydra please. As hyperactive as they were pre-game, they should have been in here freaking out by now. I actually feel like I want to lynch BH/Jitsu more than BM at this point. What do you guys think? Now you want to lynch BJ, even though they weren't on your scum team just a few posts earlier and you never even mentioned them other than, they should be all over my claim. They should be posting is your only reasoning against them. Not being in the thread at a particular time is not a case sorry to say. This is also very relevant to your scum meta in LI, odd claims, massive suspicion switches, can't keep your stories straight or keep your head on straight for that matter. You keep mentioning things such as after I flip you'll be sorry and such. As well as saying things like "THIS IS TOWNS BEST OPTION THEY WILL FLIP SCUM FOR SURE!" Your play is ridiculous to say the least. Your the most scummy in my mind right now. Unvote: marvellosity Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:04 layabout wrote: If VE was right about anything it's that he is not a good shot for mafia. Saying let's not lynch this guy that people are willing to lynch because if he is town the mafia will kill him for us is crazy. If VE is town they his a a walking mislynch tying his own noose. Since mafia's greatest threat is the lynch, townies that might get mislynched are townies that the mafia benefit from keep alive. Please come up with a scenario in which this could happen. I can't think of one. no we don't (cough jailkeeper or a liar cough ) wtf? who is lynching him for information? point them out so that we can all say that you never lynch for information because that is dumb, you lynch to hit scum. I don't get this "I want us to vig BM not lynch him" the lynch is reliable but a vig shot in a game that might not have vigi's could have multiple Jailkeepers and has 2 bulletproof mafia is not garanteed to get us a flip. Wat. Why wouldn't mafia wanna kill the JK? They probably won't tonight. But they eventually will have to. You really think they are going to leave a potential JK alive all game? If he can't prove his claim/ mafia doesn't kill him we can eventually lynchhim. He can prove his claim by JKin a person and if we have a tracker tracks him, then if we have a tracker they can correctly say he did. Or if he happens to JK someone that was going to be hit by mafia and successfully saves him, aka only 1 KP goes through. I think your just being ignorant with this statment lol. What JK is going to JK BM? None. None that want town to win. Also, as town why would you lie? You claim your shot before hand and then if it doesn't go through on BM its either a fake claim or GF. Lynch them both and we get 1 for 1. No reason for vig to lie at all. Also can you really tell someone is scum off of 3 lines of post/ action? I doubt it. Thats why it seems like a complete guess if hes scum or not. That is why he is a good vig shot. Lets lynch someone with the best case against them that is most likely to flip scum. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 05:02 layabout wrote: 1]>insert didn't read gif< you ask me a question in response to something which answer that very question. My point is that scum will be in no hurry to kill VE if he is a Jailkeeper, because they can quite easily get him mislynched which protects them and because they can legitimately call him out for being scummy and because attention on him is attention that isn't on them. 2]Oh right. We can prove his claim if somebody whos role we cannot verify without killing them claims tracker and tells us that he visited them. Nobody is confirmed until they flip. we can only verify that he visits somebody if a player tells us he visited them and then flips tracker. We then know he visited them. We cannot know if he protected them until we know for certain that the player he visited was not a Godfather and was not visited by a jailkeeper, because it is still possible that he is a goon or a vig. Even then it would still be possible (but pants on head retarded) that he is a tracker. 3]My point is that if he does not die after somebody claims to have shot him there are a number of possibilities.You said that if he didn't die we would know that either the shooter of BM was a Godfather. But not only would we not know but we have a player that claimed uncooperative jailkeeper. If you were a jailkeeper with a townread on BM would you let him get shot? Probably not. Well what if a vig claims a shot on a godfather? If the mafia kill him then there should be no vig shot and we cannot infer anything about the target. You insisted that we don't lynch BM but vig him instead. I have explained why we cannot rely on vigi's to kill players for us. If you believe that as town you shouldn't lie and you believe that VE and Johnny are scumbuddies then i think your vote is on the wrong person I didnt realize that vigs shoot after the goons. Your point 3 is good and well taken. I would not like to lynch BM still though. He could easily be either. Hes just bad. I never said that VE and Johnny are scum buddies. Right now I'm having trouble figuring out which case/which person is scummier out of. Risen VE and Marv. I'm leaning towards Risen atm and that is why I'm voting him. I will re-read the cases and re-evaluate before the lynch. But I am not willing to vote outside these three people. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 05:20 layabout wrote: Again a large part of my point is that you were telling us that we could draw certain conclusions when in fact we could not. Alright maybe I am misunderstanding you on multiple occasions. But Im pretty sure WE CAN draw conclusions from this. Im pretty sure its agreed on. Ill go through the situations: 1. Vig last minute claims and shoots. He dies. His shot didn't go through. Inconclusive. 2. Vig last minute claims and shoots. The other person comes up town. Cause of the claim and extra KP we can assume he isn't lieing and is town. 3. Vig last minute claims and shoots. The other person doesn't die. We lynch into them, because either a) The shot hit a GF or was faked. So we lynch them first. Then if they don't flip GF the other person is lying, and we lynch them and they flip GF. b) The target was JK'd. But you should be able to pick a target that you know won't be JK'd so we can ignore that. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Ottoxol: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote: He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6. Is he a good player? He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK. If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes. This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum. ##Vote: VisceraEyes Sloosh: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 07:13 slOosh wrote: slOosh's "VisceraEyes is scum" case. First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan.. Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points. Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points. Second item: VE's "scumslip" catch If you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal. Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarification The post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed. More prodding and VE gives this "explanation" To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes) Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic? Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point). Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. (here and here) Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan. Conclusion: VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum. ##Vote VisceraEyes Bill Murray: No reason Marveoullosity: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote: Alright. Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan" Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out. There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense. ##Vote: VisceraEyes layabout(couldnt find in thread vote hopefully this is right post reflecting): + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 21:15 layabout wrote: First off. ##unvote marvellosity BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way. This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow. Thirdly, The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following: You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim. If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper. [UON]Sentinel: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"? Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE. ##Unvote: ghost_403 ##Vote: VisceraEyes St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. VE(for completeness): + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote: K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself. ##Unvote: Bill Murray ##Vote: VisceraEyes For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition. gg As you read more and more, the only person voting VE with an actual case seems to be sloosh and layabout. Most people are voting him NOT because they think he is scum, but because his claim was bad. Or they think he is bad. We vote for people for SCUMMY actions! Bad town =/= scum. Is this really worth the risk of eliminating 1/3 of our blue roles on day 1? Can VE technically prove his claim? Yes. But its very difficult. He needs to have a successful protect. Or he needs to be tracked and confirmed. I personally do not think he is the scummiest player atm. If you do, for all means leave your vote on him. Do not keep your vote on him because he is bad or bad claim. All people that voted for him for that reason, explain in detail why he is more scummy than Marveoulosity or Riven? Layabout mentioned the high risk of the lynch but is still heavily supporting it: On April 23 2012 02:22 layabout wrote: The problem with VE is that lynching him is high risk, but since his reaction to questionng has been to martyr himself i think that right now we should take that risk. I really oppose it because I do not want us to lose 1/3 our blues on day 1, from sheeping and stupidity. It seems like this has gained the most sheeping. And people are taking the easy reasoning to vote VE. It seems suspicious to me, also most people are just ignoring and not commenting on the Riven case. Or they are not justifiying why VE is more suspicious than the other popular suspects. If you haven't done this, do it. Currently waiting on Rivens reply towards Gonzaws case on him. All this being said I will not be voting VE tonight, it seems like it will be between Riven or Marv. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 06:53 marvellosity wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 06:47 Mementoss wrote: I would like to note the reasoning behind the people voting VE here: Ottoxol: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote: He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6. Is he a good player? He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK. If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes. This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum. ##Vote: VisceraEyes Sloosh: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 07:13 slOosh wrote: slOosh's "VisceraEyes is scum" case. First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan.. Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points. Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points. Second item: VE's "scumslip" catch If you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal. Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarification The post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed. More prodding and VE gives this "explanation" To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes) Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic? Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point). Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. (here and here) Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan. Conclusion: VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum. ##Vote VisceraEyes Bill Murray: No reason Marveoullosity: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote: Alright. Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan" Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out. There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense. ##Vote: VisceraEyes layabout(couldnt find in thread vote hopefully this is right post reflecting): + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 21:15 layabout wrote: First off. ##unvote marvellosity BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way. This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow. Thirdly, The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following: You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim. If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper. [UON]Sentinel: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"? Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE. ##Unvote: ghost_403 ##Vote: VisceraEyes St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. VE(for completeness): + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote: K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself. ##Unvote: Bill Murray ##Vote: VisceraEyes For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition. gg As you read more and more, the only person voting VE with an actual case seems to be sloosh and layabout. Most people are voting him NOT because they think he is scum, but because his claim was bad. Or they think he is bad. We vote for people for SCUMMY actions! Bad town =/= scum. Is this really worth the risk of eliminating 1/3 of our blue roles on day 1? Can VE technically prove his claim? Yes. But its very difficult. He needs to have a successful protect. Or he needs to be tracked and confirmed. I personally do not think he is the scummiest player atm. If you do, for all means leave your vote on him. Do not keep your vote on him because he is bad or bad claim. All people that voted for him for that reason, explain in detail why he is more scummy than Marveoulosity or Riven? Layabout mentioned the high risk of the lynch but is still heavily supporting it: I really oppose it because I do not want us to lose 1/3 our blues on day 1, from sheeping and stupidity. It seems like this has gained the most sheeping. And people are taking the easy reasoning to vote VE. It seems suspicious to me, also most people are just ignoring and not commenting on the Riven case. Or they are not justifiying why VE is more suspicious than the other popular suspects. If you haven't done this, do it. Currently waiting on Rivens reply towards Gonzaws case on him. All this being said I will not be voting VE tonight, it seems like it will be between Riven or Marv. Clearly you haven't bothered to read my posts if you maintain that what you spoilered under me is the main reason I'm voting VE. Just read your filter, and it seems that what I spoilered was the TLDR version of why you voted him wasn't it? His case against gonzaws plan was bad and hes inconsistent. Why is he a better vote than Risen in you opinion since you never commented on that case (aka why is he scummier)? Also, do you personally think its worth risking a day 1 lynch of 1/3 of our blues? If so, why? | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Just sayin' | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
marv: 2 VE: 8 BM: 3 Risen: 5 Everyone not on one of these, give your head a fucking shake and get onto one of them. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
[image blocked] | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote: Gonna ask again, why is giving up a valid town defence? It's not but does disagreeing to directing blues, a day 1 blue claim, and ragequitting, give you enough confidence that he is scum, to go about lynching our possible JK, when there are other scummy suspects? Also BJ, I don't think the marv is gunna happen at this point TBH. The fact that he took his vote off VE, his main competition for getting lynched makes me think he is indeed looking out for the towns interests. (unless you think VE and marv is scum which I doubt) | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
##Unvote: Risen ##Vote: BillMurray For now | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 08:24 Risen wrote: Realizes risen is the only one who saw the marv/mt scumslip, tries to buddy him. How about my FoS targets this game? Apparently calling everyone on VE scum is too broad. I think I've narrowed it nicely I don't understand this post. On April 23 2012 08:21 Risen wrote: People risen wishes were dead: BM, mt, marv, Paq, zeph These FoS targets? I agree with BM, paq and zeph. I'm on the fence with Marv. And I Disagree with myself. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
aka, VE Risen Marv. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote: As time is running out, I would seriously like an answer to my couple of posts further up this page. Anyone? I would say unless you are super confident VE would flip scum than BM is a better lynch. BM - useless lurker that people are going to be wondering about all game. If he doesn't flip scum he flips Vanilla. VE - If he doesnt flip scum he flips JK. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 23 2012 08:39 marvellosity wrote: So how do we resolve the VE situation given he's basically not playing? What do we do with him tomorrow? Do you honestly believe he won't come back to play? At least to the point more than BM? I expect if he doesn't get lynched he will come back to his active self. Not 100% sure though, since he never came back to give new stances on anything. Think about this though. IF VE was scum, when the voting was getting this close, wouldn't he most definitly be back to change his vote? I mean if he was scum he would be responsible for losing 25% of his team and potentially half the KP. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Votes was VE-3 Marv- 5 Before his claim I think | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Well heres to hoping I'm wrong | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Compared to a 40 page game that started over 50 hours ago with 2 posts. MFW. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
MidnightGladius voted Johnnywup Ghost_403 voted [UoN]Sentinal Acknowledgment from these players on this would be appreciated. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 01:43 ghost_403 wrote: @mementoss: I made my position very clear on my vote. If I had believed my vote was necessary to achieve a VE lynch, i would have switched. Accusing me of trying to spoil a lynch that was a sure thing is disingenuous. What is the point keeping your vote on someone who is not going to get lynched? It is the same as having no vote, cause you actions have no influence on who is going to get voted out. Its a very anti-town thing to do imo. I would say anyone that was around not voting Marv BM Risen or VE, at the end of the day wasted their vote. As a result, scums 4 votes became ever more powerful in taking a blue away from us. At the end of the day if you weren't convinced VE was scum per sae, would it not have been better to lynch someone who was vanilla rather than someone who was JK? Cause if VE wasn't red he was blue. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 01:44 layabout wrote: I think we were correct to vote for VE given what we knew. I think that it was irresponsible for Blazinghand to wait so long to pull his head out of marv's ass to tell us that VE had done this before, since that is super-fucking-relevant to judging his alignment, and by the time he pointed it out there were very few people left to read it or change their vote. He is also lording the fact that he made the call over us and trying to get us to trust him. BH was around for hours before the lynch when we were all here and he just tunnelled marv and ignored VE. I think you guys need to stop calling for vigi's to shoot so early because in this set-up a vigilante that shoots night1 knowing that they are aiming for 2/4 mafia and only 2/18 players in the game, the longer the game goes better the chance of the shot, also with only 1 shot you would have to be very confident or very foolish to shoot today or even tomorrow in this set-up. The bolded part is ridiculous. No, you were not correct given the information you had. Just admit you were wrong, and you were mis-using logic/sheeping/tunnelling into VE, which ultimately lead to you helping scum kill one of our blue roles. It bothered me that no-one voting VE yesterday cause answer the question I posed, "Why would VE do this as scum?". Admit you were wrong, re-read his filter, learn from your mistakes. Tryimg to make yourself look good after you were the one pushing hardest for a majority of the day against anyone who made good points about why to not lynch VE/why VE was probably telling the truth? (Against me and Risen later in the day) However, despite all this I've thought about it, and I think you were just geniunely mistaken and wrong. I don't think a scum, would push so hard all day with the amount of detail you did to lynching VE, knowing that he would flip blue. As of now I don't have any particulary good scum reads, I need to review the thread now knowing the flip. But I feel like Mattchew is probably town, and so is Risen, based on their actions prior to the lynch. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 07:48 layabout wrote: Mementoss why did you completely turn around your reads on VE, Risen and Marv? + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:35 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + Your lack of focus not only annoys me but is suspicious, you can't make up your mind or stick to anything. Lets go through this for you: -Lets Lynch Gonzaw (in this fashion FOR THE TOWN LYNCH GONZAW IM SURE HES SCUM) -Lets Lynch Bill Murray ( in the same fashion) Then this: On April 22 2012 13:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Do we lynch BM or Mattchew? This is the first time you've even mentioned Mattchew in your filter since your first joke vote. You give no reasoning behind the Mattchew suspicion at all. Then this: On April 22 2012 22:06 VisceraEyes wrote: The scum are Bill Murray, gonzaw, MidnightGladius, layabout as far as I can see. I want to kill BM first. Where'd Mattchew go? Now this: On April 22 2012 23:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not actually - I don't think I'm any better that anyone else - only slightly more experienced. I'm trying to use reason as a defense, but it's not really working. Anyway, I'd like to hear EVERYONE'S thoughts on the BH/Jitsu hydra please. As hyperactive as they were pre-game, they should have been in here freaking out by now. I actually feel like I want to lynch BH/Jitsu more than BM at this point. What do you guys think? Now you want to lynch BJ, even though they weren't on your scum team just a few posts earlier and you never even mentioned them other than, they should be all over my claim. They should be posting is your only reasoning against them. Not being in the thread at a particular time is not a case sorry to say. This is also very relevant to your scum meta in LI, odd claims, massive suspicion switches, can't keep your stories straight or keep your head on straight for that matter. You keep mentioning things such as after I flip you'll be sorry and such. As well as saying things like "THIS IS TOWNS BEST OPTION THEY WILL FLIP SCUM FOR SURE!" Your play is ridiculous to say the least. Your the most scummy in my mind right now. Unvote: marvellosity Vote: VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM. VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 08:11 Mementoss wrote: Why are we lynching a JK cause hes bad again? [image blocked] + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 08:20 Mementoss wrote: I would also vote BM. I am beginning to think Marv is town, and since I agree with the defensive stance on VE risen took, it kinda makes me think hes town. If he was scum, he woulda just let VE die, and vote VE like a sheep. At the time Marv was the best case out there, and I wanted more pressure on him to keep posting more to see if we could get scumminess out of him. At first glance, I immediately thought of VE in LI, and though hes doing this again and voted him based on not only this, but his inconsistent views. I re-read the context of VE's case, and asked myself the same questions I kept asking everyone else, why would he do this as scum? I couldn't figure it out. Then I asked myself is this bad town play or scum? The answer should have been pretty obvious to most looking at the context of the claim as well as how it was done, along with the awkward rage-quit. As well as the super fast bandwagon/sheeping of 9 people, in which almost everyone just said omg bad claim and voted him. Easy way out. Additionally, why take the risk of lynching claimed JK with no pressure day 1? There were ways he coulda confirmed his role, if he wasn't dead from scum after 2 nights it woulda been ultra suspicious. Gonzaw posted what appeared to be a good case on Risen. Risen hadn't posted much as of late and Marv was posting somewhat better. So I voted Risen, being my best scum read atm, also knowing that I didn't want VE to die AT ALL. Once I realized there was 0 chance of Marv or Risen dieing, I voted BM. The second most votes. Was I sure he was scum? Nope. Would I rather mislynch a vanilla than a JK. Your damn right. And a lurking one at that. Onto that, the way Risen was pushing people to get off VE and mentioning some similar things to what I was thinking/saying earlier I thought he was town for this action. Marv I initially thought this was the case too, but I realized he just took his vote off to make himself look concerned. And ultimately, he put that vote back there with tonnes of showing of why it was a bad idea at the end of the thread, by me Risen and Mattchew. Still looking weird in my eyes. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 08:39 marvellosity wrote: You've said this twice now, so I'm going to call you up on it. Here is my filter for the voting thread. Why would you do something in the thread but not the voting thread just to screw me up? | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 08:40 Mementoss wrote: Why would you do something in the thread but not the voting thread just to screw me up? I was wrong. I was sure last night while we were in the thread, you said ##Unvote and then said, can someone convince me why lynching BM is better than VE | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 21:18 iGrok wrote: BlazingJitsu has been modkilled for bad behavior. BlazingJitsu, Townie, has been killed. can this be explained? I don't see it | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Marvellosity BillMurray layabout Sentinel Ottoxlol Zephridd It gives us better chances at catching a scum because I think there was most definitely at least 1 scum on this vote. Maybe even two. I will be looking into all these people a lot more closely. Not only is it a better chance for catching scum statistically, but none of these players even seem remotely towny to me. I guess I will have to find the scummiest one. At the moment I find the case about Ottoxol to be good. After reading the case I re-read Ottoxols filter, which is decieving if you look at it. It makes it look like he wasn't lurking. But yet, all the posts were of him talking about gonzaws plan, or of how GF have no KP read da rules, or of how VE was bad, or anti-town. He never once explained why VE was scummy, other than, this is bad town play it must be scum. He's not answering all my questions he must be scum. I will add a couple of weird quotes to supplement what BJ already said. On April 23 2012 10:38 Ottoxlol wrote: It seems like the ppl doesnt read the whole thread. My case against VE was simple. He told us never give up any information to the scum, then proceed to a bad claim that ensures his early death as a blue. This is bad play, hes the best player ever so he would not do that if he is indeed town JK. I tried to ask him about this decision tell me what did I miss or what was his idea what would happen, no answer. He ignored my 6 posts directed towards him, then after the votes started to pile up on him he tried defending himself, I told him what am i interested in, he talked about the massvigclaim after we already closed it and had nothing to do with his lynch. He did not read my posts, failed to comprehend them and when I asked him to explain his play he start writing in all caps, and ragequitting. Like a scum VE. The timing was strange too, the claim was around the time BM ninja voted. I did not vote on him because of his bad play, I voted him because he did not answer to my accusations or questions just gave up like a little girl. He says statements that have the potential to explain why it could have been scummy actions but he never explains why its scummy. Such as: "The timing was strange", wait what, how? Also, you did not vote on him based on bad play? Then why the fuck did you talk about it so much in all your posts directed to him? It musta had somewhat of a good influence on your voting towards him. On April 22 2012 23:27 Ottoxlol wrote: Scum VE failed at logic at the plan discussion phase, then proceeded to avoid answering to my questions 5 times in a row. Since he still did not explained why it is good for us that he claimed, I don't see how can this be anything but anti-town. Scum would claim this if they want to avoid a d1 lynch and a nice wagon appears that not too suspicious to jump on. Like the BM train. I wonder how many scums are on that. If i were a vig i would definitely shoot there. Well you dodged matthews question. So that makes you scum by your own logic? You say its anti-town, or bad town, you don't say its scummy, or why its scummy. Just its bad for town. You note that scum would do this to avoid a day 1 lynch, but wait, VE didn't do that, he had barely any pressure on him when he claimed, he had 3 votes to Marvs 6. So this is just wrong. Also you say that scum would want to jump on the BM wagon, well at the time BM wagon as you call it was barely even moving. I think it had 2-3 votes. Basically your avoiding giving a detailed opinion on who is scum and why they are scum at all costs. You give handy suggestions like vigs shoot into BM voters. Or your little WIFOM earlier, but that is it. ##Vote: Ottoxlol Going to look at the other suspects now. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
[QUOTE]On April 24 2012 21:29 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 10:38 Ottoxlol wrote: It seems like the ppl doesnt read the whole thread. My case against VE was simple. He told us never give up any information to the scum, then proceed to a bad claim that ensures his early death as a blue. This is bad play, hes the best player ever so he would not do that if he is indeed town JK. I tried to ask him about this decision tell me what did I miss or what was his idea what would happen, no answer. He ignored my 6 posts directed towards him, then after the votes started to pile up on him he tried defending himself, I told him what am i interested in, he talked about the massvigclaim after we already closed it and had nothing to do with his lynch. He did not read my posts, failed to comprehend them and when I asked him to explain his play he start writing in all caps, and ragequitting. Like a scum VE. The timing was strange too, the claim was around the time BM ninja voted. I did not vote on him because of his bad play, I voted him because he did not answer to my accusations or questions just gave up like a little girl. He says statements that have the potential to explain why it could have been scummy actions but he never explains why its scummy. Such as: "The timing was strange", wait what, how? Also, you did not vote on him based on bad play? Then why the fuck did you talk about it so much in all your posts directed to him? It musta had somewhat of a good influence on your voting towards him. My other posts explained why the timing was strange. If scum VE wants to claim he claims when he's pressured and an easy wagon appears. I said the bad play can mean 2 things, either he's town or a scum (wow that was surprising). If he would have answered why he thought it was good as townie or at least not give up I would have considered that he's not trying to escape the lynch with a fakeclaim, but he tried something that was not optimal. If you look at my filter you can see, I asked about him because before his claim I had only a little suspicion on him + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:27 Ottoxlol wrote: Scum VE failed at logic at the plan discussion phase, then proceeded to avoid answering to my questions 5 times in a row. Since he still did not explained why it is good for us that he claimed, I don't see how can this be anything but anti-town. Scum would claim this if they want to avoid a d1 lynch and a nice wagon appears that not too suspicious to jump on. Like the BM train. I wonder how many scums are on that. If i were a vig i would definitely shoot there. Well you dodged matthews question. So that makes you scum by your own logic? You say its anti-town, or bad town, you don't say its scummy, or why its scummy. Just its bad for town. You note that scum would do this to avoid a day 1 lynch, but wait, VE didn't do that, he had barely any pressure on him when he claimed, he had 3 votes to Marvs 6. So this is just wrong. Also you say that scum would want to jump on the BM wagon, well at the time BM wagon as you call it was barely even moving. I think it had 2-3 votes. What? I did not say why is it scummy? Reread. I was arguing if he's playing a bad townie play or a scummy scum play, this choice of words further proves my previous reply that I wanted him to respond, to explain his play.VE had 5 votes against marv's 6. This is also in one of my posts, this was why I argued he shouldnt have claimed because scum was very unlikely to night kill the second highest vote. He claimed right after BM voted for him -> ninja vote ez wagon. Basically your avoiding giving a detailed opinion on who is scum and why they are scum at all costs. You give handy suggestions like vigs shoot into BM voters. Or your little WIFOM earlier, but that is it. I don't, I had a case d1 about VE, I pushed it. It was a big fail. If I have a strong read I will post it. [/QUOTE] Actions speak louder than words my friend. I would challenge you to try and post a case today based on scum reads. Preferably from the list I gave, if you believe that there is scum in there. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 23:19 Mattchew wrote: Oh right... Forgot about st Daniel... Yeah we need to lynch him too if a vig doesn't get to shooting Don't forget about Janaan and BKexe too, lurking hard. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Well this is a scum tell if I ever heard one. We lynch who we think is scum. If they are scum, that automatically gives us information. We don't lynch for information. You could easily be scum saying, if we lynch this guy it gives us information on this guy. Wasting 2 days of lynch into townies. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Gonzaw plan - posts a lot about it, explains game rules on multiple occasion. Easy conversation for scum to jump on without really having any risk to put opinions on anyone. Votes VE AFTER JK claim, easy wagon for scum to jump on cause all you have to say is herp bad claim. Which is basically what ottoxlol did. Then guess what, he conveniently dissapears until VE's death and for the whole night. Im under attack!! - posts alot, in his defense, OMGUS vots BJ, attempts to make some sort of case against people but can't. Takes the easy way out for lynching lurkers. Also wants to lynch into WIFOM "pairs" for information. Names so many people that is really impossible to see his best stance atm. Basically its two hurricanes of posting at which seems to be convenient timing.... coincidence? Maybe. You decide. Note - I would like to hear from more than the same old players today eventually lol. Especially the lurking players. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 02:20 Ottoxlol wrote: but ghost, no one made any case but Mementoss and MG So everyone else is scum? Or we don't have any reads because no one is suspicious enough? Thats why everyone thinking on lynching lurkers or me. This is either a) you being really confused b) you trying to spam and bury quality posts and confuse everyone else c) newbing it up I am honestly not sure. I'm confident in the evidence put against you, but I'm done with it for now. Looking at other cases is important to decide the scummiest option. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 02:20 Ottoxlol wrote: but ghost, no one made any case but Mementoss and MG So everyone else is scum? Or we don't have any reads because no one is suspicious enough? Thats why everyone thinking on lynching lurkers or me. Go back to day 1, see all the cases that were made. Go to the end of night 1 see all the cases that were made. What do you mean no cases were made? In addition there were many pressure plays/posts that were important for the subject at hand. You mean there were no cases made in day 2? Cases made before and by dead players are still more than relevant.... | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 02:57 ghost_403 wrote: @mattchew: I see a newb doing something stupid, and I feel bad. Can't help it. What do you think? Newb or scum? Everyone keeps asking this question.. It seems like scum have noticed this...To me it feels as today went on Ottoxols posts have got worse and worse, newbier and newbier. It feels like in the scumQT someone just said, yeah dude just play the Newb card hard. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 05:31 MidnightGladius wrote: layabout, I'm personally of the opinion that a no-lynch is never good unless the town is at MYLO, or the lynch target is confirmed town to you. Every game I've played with a Day 1 no lynch fell into chaos on Day 2. You realize its pluarity which means there would never be a chance of No Lynch>? | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 06:56 layabout wrote: Marv: I do not think i did soft defend zeph. I stated that i thought he was not scummy, tried to elaborate on that and then criticised the case against him. Sentinel: Again that is a direct criticism of the case. It's relevant, and is not a soft defence. BM: see above post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14471152 I think that he is being pushed for horrible reasons. I don't think he has a very high chance of flipping mafia. But he is doing next to nothing to establish his innocence or help us and we don't owe him anything. He is "null" his is play reminds me of jubjub (traitor) and death factory 2 (town sudo-dt) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=c&f=-1&u=Bill Murray&gb=date&d= In all honesty i am sick of trying to figure out what he is when he doesn't seem to want to make it any easier. I do not think that there is much that can be analysed and i do not think anybody had made any points that show that he is any likelier to be scum than he would be by pure chance. What is your second best scum read behind MG? | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 08:02 johnnywup wrote: Some posts that stood out to me while catching up with the thread: layabout pointed this out but I think it needs restating. Mattchew has been pushing BM since early early day 1 pushing him since early early day 1. Early day1= 20 minutes after day1 started before BM even posted. He has gotten scummier but that's not enough of a justification because since the beginning mattchew was ok with policy lynch. He was probably joking but he could have "planted the seed in our mind" from early on. I'm probably overthinking things though. While true this post discounts Ghost's "plan" completely. His plan being the "Kill Sentinel today, Ottox tommorrow" plan. While I may not necessarily agree with it, MG doesn't actually talk about the "plan" itself. He says "You might not be alive tommorrow, they might not be alive tommorrow, so why even talk about it", essentially. Ghosts plan doesnt have to do with him being alive, so why bring it up, other than to distract the point and discount the idea. You can't find anyone scummy? Not even from other peoples reads and arguments? Ottox seems unwilling to take a stance, no matter how hard pressed. I still think Zephirdd and Sentinel are best choices for the lynch today. Good post until this point, can I get an explanation why you think they are scummy/ a better lynch than say Ottoxol or BM? Those are the 4 I am thinking scum would be in for sure somewheres. Vigs I think tonight would be a good shooting night just saying lol. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:18 Risen wrote: Wanna know why I was defending with so much vigor? Because I've been in that same spot. I thought after GoT that no one would be bad enough to vote for a claimed blue like that after I was lynched following my blue claim w/ a red detection. On top of this he was our DOCTOR role. How is this hard to understand?! It's SO SIMPLE :/ I'm doing my best to stay calm and not curse and not get modkilled like BJ, but I'm having a really hard time. Just saying I was in the thread while this was going on, and it was definitely risen pushing don't lynch a claimed doctor on day 1, it wasn't because he knew he was town, it was because it was incredibly stupid to lynch VE at that time, I was doing the same cause I agree'd with what he was saying and doing. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote: You do remember Mafia LI where you called me scum because I didn't vote for the blue-claiming VE, don't you? Like, VE was scum there and you were right. But we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch. That was day 2, completely different situation. He claimed DT without knowing his sanity. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:30 St.Daniel wrote: Sorry, I'm being replaced out and I didn't wanted to get modkilled. Could this be the case in this game as well, or since St.Daniel is active RIGHT NOW, will he make an effort to post/read/anything. Also where is BKexe I thought he was a promising newbie. Guess not. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 20:01 Mattchew wrote: We should consolidate to 2 lynch candidates. Personally I believe those 2 should be BM and BM, but out of respect to the rest of town, I might consider promoting Ottox and Zeph/Sent, consolidation. Ottoxlol > Zeph > Sentinel = BM In my opinion. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 21:29 Mementoss wrote: Right now I'm happy with lynching into any of these players: Marvellosity BillMurray layabout Sentinel Ottoxlol Zephridd It gives us better chances at catching a scum because I think there was most definitely at least 1 scum on this vote. Maybe even two. I will be looking into all these people a lot more closely. Not only is it a better chance for catching scum statistically, but none of these players even seem remotely towny to me. I guess I will have to find the scummiest one. At the moment I find the case about Ottoxol to be good. After reading the case I re-read Ottoxols filter, which is decieving if you look at it. It makes it look like he wasn't lurking. But yet, all the posts were of him talking about gonzaws plan, or of how GF have no KP read da rules, or of how VE was bad, or anti-town. He never once explained why VE was scummy, other than, this is bad town play it must be scum. He's not answering all my questions he must be scum. I will add a couple of weird quotes to supplement what BJ already said. He says statements that have the potential to explain why it could have been scummy actions but he never explains why its scummy. Such as: "The timing was strange", wait what, how? Also, you did not vote on him based on bad play? Then why the fuck did you talk about it so much in all your posts directed to him? It musta had somewhat of a good influence on your voting towards him. Well you dodged matthews question. So that makes you scum by your own logic? You say its anti-town, or bad town, you don't say its scummy, or why its scummy. Just its bad for town. You note that scum would do this to avoid a day 1 lynch, but wait, VE didn't do that, he had barely any pressure on him when he claimed, he had 3 votes to Marvs 6. So this is just wrong. Also you say that scum would want to jump on the BM wagon, well at the time BM wagon as you call it was barely even moving. I think it had 2-3 votes. Basically your avoiding giving a detailed opinion on who is scum and why they are scum at all costs. You give handy suggestions like vigs shoot into BM voters. Or your little WIFOM earlier, but that is it. ##Vote: Ottoxlol Going to look at the other suspects now. + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 01:51 Mementoss wrote: Ottoxlol: A Posting History Gonzaw plan - posts a lot about it, explains game rules on multiple occasion. Easy conversation for scum to jump on without really having any risk to put opinions on anyone. Votes VE AFTER JK claim, easy wagon for scum to jump on cause all you have to say is herp bad claim. Which is basically what ottoxlol did. Then guess what, he conveniently dissapears until VE's death and for the whole night. Im under attack!! - posts alot, in his defense, OMGUS vots BJ, attempts to make some sort of case against people but can't. Takes the easy way out for lynching lurkers. Also wants to lynch into WIFOM "pairs" for information. Names so many people that is really impossible to see his best stance atm. Basically its two hurricanes of posting at which seems to be convenient timing.... coincidence? Maybe. You decide. Note - I would like to hear from more than the same old players today eventually lol. Especially the lurking players. BJ Case + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 18:40 BlazingJitsu wrote: Ottoxlol is scum. He's scum because of the FASHION in which he voted VE, and the way he hedged going into it-- and the way he's addressed the VE wagon since daybreak. Therefore, he has earned my ire. Here is the case. Examining the VE wagon, the vote for him that stands out the most is Ottoxlol's vote. Let's take a look: This is a bullshit reason for voting VisceraEyes. If we take a look at it at it's core, he's basically saying "VE played in a sub-optimal way" as the basis for his case, but take a look at how he finishes his little case summary: He closes off his case by trying to abdicate responsibility for it. He knows VE is going to flip town, and he wants to blame other people when it happens without sounding inconsistent. Now, on its own, maybe this wouldn't be so bad. I mean, it's scummy as fuck, but maybe we have bigger targets, like Marv? Well, let's take a look on what Ottoxlol has been doing to "scumhunt" since D1: This says absolutely nothing. This is Ottoxlol trying to push people who were on the VE wagon with some unhelpful WIFOM. Paying close attention to this post, you'll realize he doesn't actually push anyone as scum. This is unhelpful shitty dick play. This is scum play that he set up D1. This is Ottoxlol trying to pool the proverbial wool over the town's eyes by trying to appear helpful. Ottoxlol, you didn't want to take responsibility for your vote on VE, and you don't want to take responsibility for pushing others on his wagon. Your posts are waffling, unhelpful, and scummy. ##vote: Ottoxlol Come at me bro -Blazinghand Risen: + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 08:53 Risen wrote: Done reading now. I looked at everyone and I think Ottoxlol has somehow managed to slip his way out of votes with the exception of mt. He'll be receiving my vote for now and this is why. + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 14:41 Ottoxlol wrote: I haven't played mafia on tl To the question you addressed to Paqman, I have some suspicions because some people doesnt like logic, but i think its too early to decide its their limitations or theyre scums. First thing that caught my eye. Tbh it's no biggie. It's a small thing, but I absolutely hate people who go "I'm noob". He's implying that he's played before, just somewhere else, so why does he need to say anything at all? On April 22 2012 06:52 Ottoxlol wrote: About marvel, i think he's not a scum just had no time to post, I would like to see him defend himself. He had 2 bad questions then he afked, I don't believe that's enough for my vote. He will post later, so I think it's useless to discuss. That's not enough for your vote but you put your vote on gonzaw b/c he FoSd you? On April 22 2012 07:38 Ottoxlol wrote: [UoN] Sentinel had two real posts, the first + Show Spoiler + Just wondering, what's the chance gonzaw's not mafia but just making an extremely retarded point? At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues. He doesnt know that GFs cant shoot.. Nuf said, very bad post, calling out gonzaw but not making a case against his plan + Show Spoiler + I'm starting to think all of you people purposely post when I sleep Let's do it like this - everyone just do whatever the fuck they want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. If it's not beneficial in some way to town, then lynch them. If there's one thing I know, it's that voting/lynching/etc. plans always benefit mafia because they can pull them to their advantage (and also you get lynched when your plan especially sucks). Keeping in mind with this train of thought, I will proceed to do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. When I get back, I'll read filters and try and put more on the table. I would wait till he put more on the table before we jump to conclusions, I disagree with that plans always benefiting mafia. He's talkin more in general terms, so maybe if he states his case more clearly we'll get more information. Sentinel, if you would be so kind to tell us your opinion about who's benefiting the town right now and who's not, i would like to read what do you think who should we lynch. The first half of his response can be taken two ways. One, he isn't catching onto the fact that sentinel means the godfathers having goons shoot them. The other, is that he knows this and is simply trying to make a post where he looks useful. The second half is fine, but he's asking for Sentinels thoughts without really doing much himself. On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote: He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6. Is he a good player? He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK. If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes. This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum. ##Vote: VisceraEyes This is where some serious bells and whistles should be going off for anyone who spots it. Can't find it? "So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum" What horrible justification for a vote. I'm aware he made a few posts asking VE questions, and finding him a little suspicious, but it feels like he's trying to shift the blame away from himself before VE even flips. Oh well, you guys say he's good and no one good would play like this so imma vote him. On April 22 2012 22:43 Ottoxlol wrote: Forget the plan, we already discussed it too much. I don't just disagree with your claim, I wrote it down why is it a bad play. You still did not respond Why does he edit his quote in his further responses to remove the part where he justifies his vote saying VE wouldn't play like this? Why not just quote it? It's small, but small things add up. I absolutely HATE people who edit the things they're quoting. On April 24 2012 15:52 Ottoxlol wrote: I havent finished reading everything, but so far I had an idea I thought I will write down the VE voters relationships maybe we can figure something out. Sentinel attacked BM Ottox did not attack anyone from this grp marv attacked Zeph BM defending Zeph and marv laya attacking marv, defending zeph Zeph attacking BM, and marv I think this will not make a strong read, but I try If Sentinel is scummy, we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If laya is scummy we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If marv is scummy we should investigate BM and vice versa . So my read is there are 0 or 2 scums in the VE voter group, maybe we can use this later What is this? It's the worst defined list I've ever seen. My mind is trying to wrap itself around the logic here but can't because it's intentionally confusing FOR NO REASON. On April 24 2012 16:57 Ottoxlol wrote: I don't get the sloosh kill btw, he contributed scarce, voted on VE. If not lynched he would have been pressured a lot today. Risen was the only one they both suspected to be scum, since sloosh kill has no other explanation then defending Risen I think he is town. Why are you buddying me here? By the logic in this post it sounds like you're accusing me of offing the people who were suspicious of me. Instead, you end with the conclusion that Risen is town. What? Also, the sloosh kill DOES have another explanation and it was already posted in the thread by someone else, blue-hunting. That's not a defense. That a useless post in which you bolded one part of his entire case. On April 24 2012 19:45 Ottoxlol wrote: You did not make a good enough case against Marv and you did not defend VE. So you were not that confident. Continuing his 1v1 fest after harping on the gonzaw/VE 1v1. Standard, but what sticks out here is that he's telling BJ he didn't make a strong enough case against marv and didn't defend VE. Yeah, his case on marv was too weak, but saying he didn't defend VE is a lie. On April 24 2012 20:37 Ottoxlol wrote: LOL I don't understand your case. You say the reason I'm scum because the way i voted VE. First I made a case about why VE is playing badly about the massvigclaim plan, then when he claimed, I stated my reasoning why he shouldn't have, and because you guys said he's the best player ever it's obvious that he is scum. I stated why a scum VE would claim and asked him why did he think the claim was good play. He did not respond, started accusing every second player and yelling, then rqd. I blame my vote on VE's bad play and lack of interest. You still did not respond why is this strong enough to switch from tunneling marv. Stating my posts are worthless, when you did not help town at all (not defending VE when you claim it was obv he's town, not stating a single good case that would rally ppl from VE), is the nail in your coffin. #vote BlazingJitsu Votes BJ after their OMGUS mud-flinging. The end result of this argument is BJ's modkill b/c he couldn't keep his cool when trying to argue with someone who was clearly being willfully absurd. On April 24 2012 21:48 Ottoxlol wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 21:29 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 10:38 Ottoxlol wrote: It seems like the ppl doesnt read the whole thread. My case against VE was simple. He told us never give up any information to the scum, then proceed to a bad claim that ensures his early death as a blue. This is bad play, hes the best player ever so he would not do that if he is indeed town JK. I tried to ask him about this decision tell me what did I miss or what was his idea what would happen, no answer. He ignored my 6 posts directed towards him, then after the votes started to pile up on him he tried defending himself, I told him what am i interested in, he talked about the massvigclaim after we already closed it and had nothing to do with his lynch. He did not read my posts, failed to comprehend them and when I asked him to explain his play he start writing in all caps, and ragequitting. Like a scum VE. The timing was strange too, the claim was around the time BM ninja voted. I did not vote on him because of his bad play, I voted him because he did not answer to my accusations or questions just gave up like a little girl. He says statements that have the potential to explain why it could have been scummy actions but he never explains why its scummy. Such as: "The timing was strange", wait what, how? Also, you did not vote on him based on bad play? Then why the fuck did you talk about it so much in all your posts directed to him? It musta had somewhat of a good influence on your voting towards him. My other posts explained why the timing was strange. If scum VE wants to claim he claims when he's pressured and an easy wagon appears. I said the bad play can mean 2 things, either he's town or a scum (wow that was surprising). If he would have answered why he thought it was good as townie or at least not give up I would have considered that he's not trying to escape the lynch with a fakeclaim, but he tried something that was not optimal. If you look at my filter you can see, I asked about him because before his claim I had only a little suspicion on him + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:27 Ottoxlol wrote: Scum VE failed at logic at the plan discussion phase, then proceeded to avoid answering to my questions 5 times in a row. Since he still did not explained why it is good for us that he claimed, I don't see how can this be anything but anti-town. Scum would claim this if they want to avoid a d1 lynch and a nice wagon appears that not too suspicious to jump on. Like the BM train. I wonder how many scums are on that. If i were a vig i would definitely shoot there. Well you dodged matthews question. So that makes you scum by your own logic? You say its anti-town, or bad town, you don't say its scummy, or why its scummy. Just its bad for town. You note that scum would do this to avoid a day 1 lynch, but wait, VE didn't do that, he had barely any pressure on him when he claimed, he had 3 votes to Marvs 6. So this is just wrong. Also you say that scum would want to jump on the BM wagon, well at the time BM wagon as you call it was barely even moving. I think it had 2-3 votes. What? I did not say why is it scummy? Reread. I was arguing if he's playing a bad townie play or a scummy scum play, this choice of words further proves my previous reply that I wanted him to respond, to explain his play.VE had 5 votes against marv's 6. This is also in one of my posts, this was why I argued he shouldnt have claimed because scum was very unlikely to night kill the second highest vote. He claimed right after BM voted for him -> ninja vote ez wagon. Basically your avoiding giving a detailed opinion on who is scum and why they are scum at all costs. You give handy suggestions like vigs shoot into BM voters. Or your little WIFOM earlier, but that is it. I don't, I had a case d1 about VE, I pushed it. It was a big fail. If I have a strong read I will post it. You really didn't have that much of a case on d1. What you did have was everyone else making points and you jumping onto those points pushing it as your case. You proceeded to hide behind your defense that VE was playing bad and therefor scum. On April 24 2012 22:21 Ottoxlol wrote: I believe that there is at least one scum on that list, I read them all. I couldn't come up with a case that's strong. Bm contributed zero, it is really hard to analyse someone with zero posts. Marvellosity been attacked d1 with a very weak case, I did not find anything suspicious there layabout he was on my d1 list because I felt his opinion switches were a bit suspicious but d2 he's been posting some very good things, i think he's town Sentinel wasn't too involved in the debates, the case against him is semi decent, but if we punish someone because he did not got involved it should be the one with the least contribution Zephridd's defense is that he was afk too. We have 3 players who did some afking Sent BM Zeph from the VE crowd, Sentinel and Zeph tried contributing so I would vote rather BM then those other 2. He's getting votes and called out why don't he post and he's still just lurking around. BM please get into the game and show us you are town, or else I feel you'll get lynched. WHAT?! You look at that entire list of people on VE and you can't come up with ANYONE? Earlier you had your Glenn Beck twisted logic post saying 0 or 2 people on your list were probably scum... or something. Now you're saying you can't find anyone, anyone out of the list of people who voted for VE scummy? BM was lurking all day 1, and you can't find that scummy? You find nothing suspicious about marv's play? I don't think marv is scum, and I can point out some suspicios things no problem. There is no one who is above suspicion until they flip green. Layabout goes from being a little scummy to you to not being scummy at all simply because he's "posting better"? Sentinel is scummy as sin! You even pointed out DAY ONE that you thought Sentinel could possibly be acting scummy. It hasn't gotten better for him in my eyes. How can you not make a case? Are you protecting a scumbuddy here? You pointed out that 0 or 2 people on VE might be scum. I'm leaning towards you knowing the number of scum on him. You can't make a case on Zeph? CMON. The guy's defense is that he was lurking! Ahem... I mean afk. You're saying Sentinel and Zeph are in the clear for you, but BM has to go? I will be the first one to hate on BM, but to say BM is your scum read but not zeph/sent is outrageous. BM start posting or you have feelings that he will be lynched. Where were you yesterday when I was shouting for his lynch. Now that sent/zeph are under suspicion, though, lynch the lurker. What remains after that post is one liner after one liner and then this. On April 25 2012 08:03 Ottoxlol wrote: Risen gonzaws case against him He tried to defend VE, but with not the best tools After that he starts to rally people to other candidates (marv/bm). He explained that he did FoS these people only because they had votes on them so it would have been easier to get ahead of VE. I think his reasoning is clear, I find him town. BM He doesnt post, ninja-votes. There is no real case against him because he doesn't post. I can't wrap my head around him, some say scummy, some say don't I can't really decide. If people want to lynch him I will have no objection at all. Sentinel He did not provide any reasoning on his vote for VE or get into the debate about it. A bit scummy. I would vote for him too Marv. From the beginning I felt like BJ is tunneling him too much, he answered his accusations but BJ couldn't understand them, I can relate to that. I am neutral towards him Zephirdd he defended himself with stating he afked, he's still not active enough, hard to judge. Daniel One real post, he votes BM but then promise us a case on marv and that he'll post, we are still waiting. Brood Two posts, he votes marv, I point out some inconsistency in his post but he did not respond. No posts, no case johnnywup I missed this case before, I think a couple of ppl too because no one really talked about this. I am feeling confident voting for johnny. ##Vote: johnnywup More buddying of me and a post containing your "feelings" culminating in a complete swap to voting johnny b/c he's being a little indecisive. Ottoxlol is scum and I will be voting for him. ##vote: Ottoxlol | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 05:16 Risen wrote: I haven't looked that hard into zeph or sent b/c my strongest read is ottox. I'm not exactly comfortable voting for the same person as zephir, sent, and BM. I haven't forgotten about BM but there's almost nothing to build a case on sans shouting lurker, and since that didn't work yesterday... They might be voting their scumbuddy to gain cred, but then again they might be voting a town player they think they can wagon... But that's some serious WIFOM and assumes all three are scum, which I don't think is the case. I'll look into zephir and sent when I'm done with my eve roaming. This is the only reason I don't like my current vote on Ottox. Cause I don't trust/ have town reads on BM Zeph or Sentinel at all. Its still a debate whether hes bad town or scum. I'm keeping my vote currently, unless someone can convince me why sentinel or Zephrid would be a better vote. Just cause Gonzaw said vote out Sentinal next doesn't make him any more scummy, the only thing it means is we can trust gonzaws read was honest. But the same can be said about BJ's last read on Ottox, we know it was an honest town view. I still think that there are 1-2 scum on the remaining people alive on the VE train, while others safely put vote elsewhere to stay away from that blue flip. I know most of the votes were obviously a town mistake, but to say scum weren't all giddy at the fact of a day 1 blue lynch would most likely be false. That being said I say we lynch one (Zeph Sentinel and Ottoxlol) and shoot into the best candidate for the rest. Reference below: Marvellosity BillMurray layabout Sentinel Ottoxlol Zephridd | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
However I got a question for you Marv: On April 24 2012 23:10 Zephirdd wrote: By the way, lynching Risen or johnny is retarded. IF you want my opinion, I'd say Sentinel is the best lynch target right now. Last post of his: It's been about 12 hours. He also has very little substance. Leaving my vote on him for now. What would scum motivation be saying lynching Risen or Johnny is retarded unless one of them is scum as well. Or unless its just completely random. Do you have a scum read on either Risen or Johnny? Also, why would he mention Johnny of all people, someone who was pushing the lynch down his neck very early. Just search Johnny in Zeph's filter to see how much they interact negatively. Hmm. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 06:50 marvellosity wrote: Anyway, now I've voted for Zephirdd scum, I wish to note something else. St. Daniel has voted for him without saying anything here. dafuq | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 06:58 marvellosity wrote: I can't see johnny being scum at this stage. His posting has simply been too sincere. Risen is a possibility, but I kinda have a null read on him atm - I've not seriously combed his posts. I don't think it's worth that much to think about connections like that right now, because it could mean anything. If you or anyone has a serious objection against my case or others brought against Zephirdd, now is the time to say so, because as it stands he is my clearest scum read. Honestly the evidence against both them seems good to me, both cases are well laid out and have a couple people supporting them on both sides. They are almost equally scummy to me, right now im looking at who I see green on which sides Zeph: Marv (greenish) St.Daniel (null-red) MG (null-red) Janaan (null) Jdub (greenish) Ottoxlol: Mementoss(green) sent (null-green) Zeph (red) BM (null-red) Risen (greenish) ghost (null) Lol that didn't help me out at all. Also we have 2 confirmed town who thought either of them were scum before they died (Gonzaw and BJ respectively) Fuck. This is hard shit. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 07:02 layabout wrote: If you have a town read on MignightGladius please speak out. Earilier i may have written that gonzaw made points against him but i was incorrect. SlOosh is the player that made a case against him. Since Mignight Gladius is probably scum, hitting slOosh has become much more understandable. Mignight is not being proactive about posting and he has again tried to play down and discredit my accusations against him rather than be open or honest about his acitions. He has kept his posting to a minimum. Today we have had a much more "productive" discussion, and by that i mean nearly everything has been centred about who to lynch and why, it has consisted largely of players giving their opinions and sharing reads. By contrast much of yesterday was spent discussing the set-up (to get discussion going) there was an awful lot of trashy/hateful posting proportionally far less of the postin gthat we have seen today. When the discussion was not serious but was easy to post thoughts without having to give strong opinions Mignight was posting a lot and he was posting long. Now that he can only post about who he thinks the scum are, he has gone quiet, and the posts he has made have been shorter and devoid of content. i also didn't place vote yesterday ##vote MignightGladius With an hour left, I don't like that you are avoiding the 2 most popular lynches. So you can't be put on a person with a possible green flip, since you would be almost the deciding vote. Although I see I do see the possibilty of MG being scummy. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 07:16 PaqMan wrote: Well damnit. I honestly think Ottox is bad town. I'll be part of the deciding vote and pick Zephirdd. I like the attention anyways. I just wanna know what everyone thinks of Risen and why ;_; I think Risen is town, why would he risk a blue possibly not getting lynched day 1? Its not like he said his shit and peaced. He legit stayed around trying to convince people. If VE woulda came back and contributed it coulda easily almost been a BM lynch. Scum taking that risk, I don't think so. He never said anything like confirmed town, he said you dont lynch a doctor on day 1, which no one else said before him, and I found myself agreeing with the points he was making. If he was scum, don't you think there woulda been a little bit of gloating today? Saying shit like, you shoulda listened to me, I was right, with a pinch of "im confirmed town" without saying it directly. He seems to be posting openly in day 2 discussion. Those are the reasons I think RIsen is town, however, I could be highly biased based on my in the thread at the time feelings. Also, alot of this is assuming scum agenda and WIFOM So take this opinion with a grain of salt. However I would trust him over half the people in this game atm. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 07:28 PaqMan wrote: @Mementoss If you were the deciding vote, but the lynch was either you or another person, you wouldn't vote for yourself? I can't blame him much for that. Yeah I definitely would. But I was saying that at a point where he unvoted long ago and was leaving his vote as a wild card, as he just voted he voted who I expected him to. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 07:33 Zephirdd wrote: There is no time layabout. MG is scum in my eyes, and I believe people will look at him in about 1 hour and 30min. I hate this last min bandwagon on me. I'll love to see people's reactions when that green text comes out and everyone is like "wtf was that bandwagon" Also -> Says it's risky -> Never says it's wrong anyone else sees that? Zephirdd attempted fearmongering ....It's not very effective | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 12:27 iGrok wrote: Just got back from taking my friend to the hospital. I'll resolve night actions now and do the day post. Deadline will be 8:00pm EST in 2 days Not good with time, but thats host official | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 07:55 Mattchew wrote: yo wtf happened in the past ~hour basically this: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + Hurts don't it mattchew pressing all those spoils+ Show Spoiler + | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 07:56 johnnywup wrote: The lynch is in an hour right? I think MG would be a good lynch but I don't think we have enough time. Isn't there the possibility of bussing? I think it's more than a possibility at this point. So don't let MG voting zeph make you think zeph is town. You have other reasons for thinking zeph is town, I guess. I think it's MG+Sentinel+Zeph+One other on a scum team atm. I like you pushing a read but it's too late right now. this is just false, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=36#705 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=38#741 so, MG+Sentinel+Zeph+Risen? Yeah I thought Risen was townish looking, but that statement is just foolishness. It's making me doubt where my vote currently is. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 08:06 MidnightGladius wrote: layabout, since it seems like you're claiming vig, why would you threaten to let scum derail the lynch by pushing people off of Zeph when you could just shoot me instead? I don't sherioously tthink layabout is claimg vig lol I think hes just trying to convince ottoxol. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 08:43 johnnywup wrote: at least laya is honest about killing ottox if he didn't switch votes lol. @_@ .... | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Marvellosity BillMurray layabout Sentinel Ottoxlol I would really like a shot into Ottoxlol. If he comes up scum it makes Riven look really bad, if not Riven is sorta cleared as townie mistake. If he doesnèt die, hes GF and we lynch him next day. If vig DOES shoot, donèt forget to claim. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 26 2012 23:54 marvellosity wrote: Do you find it likely we have a vig when, for example, BM was not shot in Night 1? Maybe not. But maybe its just a vig being careful waiting for better odds (less people) or a better chance (almost confirmed scum) to shoot. | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 27 2012 03:04 BroodKingEXE wrote: Guys, if the vigs dont shoot tonight(or if there are none) I think we need to look more at lurkers. So you? | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 27 2012 07:17 PaqMan wrote: ottox's continuous defense of BK is weird. Truth PaqMan, Truth | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 27 2012 07:22 marvellosity wrote: And Bill Murray still says nothing, nor St. Daniel. St.Daniel = Inactive BillMurray = Lurking imo | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 27 2012 07:58 johnnywup wrote: I've got to say, I find it hilarious that iGrok has a longer filter than broodking, bm, janaan, and St.Daniel. laya, i think that while that may seem correct it could easily be untrue even if one flips scum. Risen might have been indecisive. In my first game I switched last minute (it lead to lynching a scum in that situation though). If it lead to lynching a town I woulda looked terrible. me looking terrible=/= me being scum, however. It could be an honest mistake that has nothing to do with alignment. It could be a last minute idea by scum, but risen could have dropped the ottox case a long ago in favor of lynching a townie, since the zeph lynch was gaining support. the fact he didn't but switched last second then switched back, rather than "getting a scum read on zeph" earlier tells me it was a townie mistake, because he could have gotten the zeph lynch looking a lot more townie. I agree with this whole post | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
1 Person of all people alive is on both townie lynches. Co-incedence? Or scum? That is all I had time to type up LOL | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 27 2012 09:03 marvellosity wrote: And you wasted it on that Mementoss? wow. well I only had 5 minutes to whip something up that was in my mind bro you mad at it? | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 27 2012 09:05 marvellosity wrote: Not mad at all, just baffled that that would be the one thing you chose. Im surprised at the lack of night posts, and yeah this early in the game there is at least 1 scum I would assume on every townie lynch, the correlation of you being on both bugs me | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
 | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Trolling like a motha fucking boss. After you were alive so long I was like mattchew is playing a good scum game. Matt can't know the scum team without giving up their names | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:20 marvellosity wrote: You guys should be fucking ashamed of yourselves for believing matt's claim. Seriously, that's fucking awful. You guys should be fucking ashamed of yourselves for not believing VE's claim Seriously, that's fucking awful.  | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:46 layabout wrote: That is A problem with TL towns. Other problems include: Deliberately doing the absolute worst thing you could possibly do with your role Not reading the thread Waiting until the last possible second to vote Not reading the thread Not reading the OP Tunnelling a player relentlessly for no particular reason Insulting others for the sake of it Not posting much at all Refusing to establish you innocence Breaking the rules Not using their roles Not discussing anything at all Being uncooperative Not reading the thread ![[image loading]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif?1318992465) (This picture is the basis I would say, or just not playing a pro town game, and being so anti town, and giving up and looking for pity votes, then get mad and start saying scum claims) | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
| ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On May 06 2012 01:34 BroodKingEXE wrote: XD, Mattchew he must've been rogue, wasn't he? Well you played it awesome too,mlot of people had suspicions on you, but you turned them off. Mattchew = Mastermind, Manipulator. Did all the work. BM = Too obvious to lynch. St. Daniels = He helped? Janaan = fooled half the town to believing he was townie. How the heck he did that? Maybe it was because Janaan was a townie. Lollll | ||
|
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On May 06 2012 05:10 BroodKingEXE wrote: What I don't understand is why some people had Janaan as townie. Sure he was posting consistent, but in terms of the people he voted for he provided diddly squat. Lol yeah he did about the equivalent as you, you were both null in my books. | ||
| ||
