EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII - Page 57
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 02:57 ghost_403 wrote: @mattchew: I see a newb doing something stupid, and I feel bad. Can't help it. What do you think? Newb or scum? Everyone keeps asking this question.. It seems like scum have noticed this...To me it feels as today went on Ottoxols posts have got worse and worse, newbier and newbier. It feels like in the scumQT someone just said, yeah dude just play the Newb card hard. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
I am trying to decipher if he is ignorant (town) or arrogant (scum) with his read on VE. He originally posted this on VE's stance on Gonzaw's plan First: Almost every point he makes is only working if JK's cooperate, I don't see how did you miss that (point 6). He clearly states that JKs should work with the claims and then you try to confute his plan with this. Second: VE you havent responded to why did you tried to argue the plan away with the JK stuff Third: I still find it amazing that VE missed the point about JKs and still not responding directly why wouldn't the JKs not follow the plan. Then he posted this as his case On April 22 2012 06:46 Ottoxlol wrote: Yeah sure. VE + Show Spoiler + marvellosity said: One thing I didn't like about the whole gonzaw - VE exchange was VE's pretty bad breakdown of gonzaw's plan. It seemed to amount to this - if JK doesn't agree with the plan, then the plan is bad. But... the whole idea of the plan was that everyone agreed to it, so the JK was obviously on board, it was a terrible criticism. Looking further into VE's filter, I didn't see any further substantial objection, and he went forward to accusing gonzaw for his 'scumslip', which was at best minor, and can generally be read as unimportant. I asked him 3 times about this and no response. + Show Spoiler + ANYONE PUSHING A MASS-VIG-CLAIM IS DOING SO ALONGSIDE CLAIMED SCUM After failing to comprehend the plan, he tried this shouting-tunneling on gonzaw, i found it rather amusing. His posts are also very non-constructive. + Show Spoiler + Anyway, my vote on gonzaw stands - especially now that he thinks I'm scum because I disagree with a mass-claim plan. Unbelievable. He's playing 1v1 with gonzaw, doesnt care about anyone else. The funny thing is, once VE claimed JK, it should have been like an epiphany to ottox, because his case hinged on VE not understanding that the JK's will play ball, but VE was the JK. Instead he continues to push him using this logic On April 22 2012 15:10 Ottoxlol wrote: VE, why did u claim? + Show Spoiler + I was going to die N1 anyway - this way we don't waste today wondering if I'm town or not. If you are indeed town and JK, you shouldn't have claimed. This is super bad logic IMO but a TON of people made this mistake of saying "he didn't play a role like I would, he must be scum" so this doesn't really have an alignment On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote: He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6. Is he a good player? He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK. If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes. This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum. ##Vote: VisceraEyes This is a forced contradiction IMO. and he speculates on scum kills. he also does the previous "not playing role like i thought he would, he must be scum" again. This equals newb scum to me. His recent posting hasn't really said anything so its pointless to look into other then from a multi-post view that he is posting to appear active but not really saying anything | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
My first bigger post about VE http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=18#343 My vote http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14438199 After that I engaged with the debate, see my filter @ghost I am getting frustrated, you accuse me, I respond, you do not read my posts. shall I start making up cases too? On April 25 2012 01:51 Mementoss wrote: Ottoxlol: A Posting History Gonzaw plan - posts a lot about it, explains game rules on multiple occasion. Easy conversation for scum to jump on without really having any risk to put opinions on anyone. Votes VE AFTER JK claim, easy wagon for scum to jump on cause all you have to say is herp bad claim. Which is basically what ottoxlol did. Then guess what, he conveniently dissapears until VE's death and for the whole night. Im under attack!! - posts alot, in his defense, OMGUS vots BJ, attempts to make some sort of case against people but can't. Takes the easy way out for lynching lurkers. Also wants to lynch into WIFOM "pairs" for information. Names so many people that is really impossible to see his best stance atm. Basically its two hurricanes of posting at which seems to be convenient timing.... coincidence? Maybe. You decide. Note - I would like to hear from more than the same old players today eventually lol. Especially the lurking players. This is ok. clear reasoning, but all the other accusations has been answered already. Get off my back and read my posts. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On April 25 2012 03:14 Mementoss wrote: Tryimg-Not to tunnel who we lynch early in the day. All options/cases should be expressed fully/responded to (or to note, a lack of response) before ultimately decided the lynch target. I personally am a fan of people putting there reads out first half of the day along with votes, so we can see a hard solid stance of where everyone stands/have lots of time to discuss and consolidate the best option for killing a scum looking ma facka. We should still be lynching BM | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
Why BM above Sentinel or Zephirdd? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 25 2012 04:08 Mattchew wrote: How many times would you like me to answer that Until you make a case that is at least half as solid as the cases on those 2 perhaps? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On April 24 2012 21:35 Mattchew wrote: He ninja voted the most well known scum hunter in the game... To me that's like saying hi I'm Scum lynch me... And he hasn't said anything of value if you think he has you are reading something I'm not | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Your ninja vote point is annoyingly compelling. On April 22 2012 12:42 Bill Murray wrote: ##vote: VisceraEyes On April 24 2012 14:50 Bill Murray wrote: I would be pretty hypocritical to vote him for that. I don't see it. It is really easy to mistake someone who is nervous with a Doctor or Jailkeeper role as being mafia... It's something we can't help. VE's vote for me was more like a placeholder. I was pretty busy during the time period. I didn't expect to get wagonned by mafia and for him to actually die. VE is a great player that shouldn't ever be lynched on D1. We should have lynched someone like Paqman on policy, though I'm glad we didn't now. His "we could have 3 vigs" comment cracked me up. His excuse for voting him is non-existent. If you were pretty busy why leave your vote on a player that should never get lynched? That's ridiculous. If you were so busy that you decided to lynch the guy who should never be lynched and not bothered to check the thread after, then you shouldn't have signed up, should you BM? | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
Post your case(s) on any one or more of those three, and then vote for your strongest scumread. You can even pursue your associative tells/pairs, as long as you then vote for your strongest scumread. That's all I ask. Mattchew, I would argue that BM still doesn't make a good lynch today. Lack of posts and odd behavior don't give us much to work with, one way or the other, and we can't really make too many connections if he flips scum. I'm personally keeping my vote on johnny for now, but I will gladly vote for Zeph as well. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 25 2012 05:01 MidnightGladius wrote: I'm exhausted and going to take a nap, but I want to say that Ottoxlol's play one these last 2 pages alone is really scummy. He's willing to push any of BM, Zeph, or Sent, again without any particular conviction. The excuse "they're all equally likely to be scum to me" is incredibly flimsy. Post your case(s) on any one or more of those three, and then vote for your strongest scumread. You can even pursue your associative tells/pairs, as long as you then vote for your strongest scumread. That's all I ask. Mattchew, I would argue that BM still doesn't make a good lynch today. Lack of posts and odd behavior don't give us much to work with, one way or the other, and we can't really make too many connections if he flips scum. I'm personally keeping my vote on johnny for now, but I will gladly vote for Zeph as well. You still haven't responded to me about your VE voter weirdnesses. I would like it. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Bill Murray - 1 vote Mattchew Risen - 1 Vote Paqman johhnywup - 1 Vote MidnightGladius Zephirdd - 1 Vote johnnywup Ottoxlol - 1 Vote Mementoss BlazingJitsu BlazingJitsu - 1 Vote Ottoxlol [UoN]Sentinel - 2 Votes Zephirrd ghost_403 Seeing that huge spread of votes brought a tear to my eye. If we continue to push everyone and their mother then we make it very easy for scum to do whatever they like, as there are multiples ways that can take advantage of a clueless town. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
Would I have liked to have been perfectly certain and pulled a ton of pressure to move votes off of VE? Sure. Did I think it was the right, or feasible, idea at the time? No. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 25 2012 05:17 MidnightGladius wrote: Are you arguing that I should have been more convinced of VE's innocence, despite his scummy play, and pushed people off of his lynch? Perhaps I could have, but hindsight is cruel, and I would have not wanted to have been led to a no-lynch. Like I said in the post you only partially quoted, I highly doubt that I could have convinced the people voting for VE to move off of him. Would I have liked to have been perfectly certain and pulled a ton of pressure to move votes off of VE? Sure. Did I think it was the right, or feasible, idea at the time? No. This is the problem. There's no consistent string. You called VE's play really scummy. Then you ask town how it could let the really scummy player get lynched. You are town. You let it happen too, what did you expect everyone else to do? If you weren't certain on VE's innocence, why were you acting so incredulous and shocked that town let the lynch happen? Surely it was a distinct, and also according to you, reasonable, possibility if VE's play had been super scummy? | ||
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