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On April 23 2012 06:29 Risen wrote:
I haven't even placed my vote on marv yet >.> It is my intention to do so, though. Everyone on VE should be shot/lynched. I'll vote for anyone on him. Only an idiot would vote for VE and we're better off with all of them dead.
That includes VE
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On April 23 2012 07:32 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: I can't do this. I'm done. Get off VE. Get onto whoever you want. I don't know why wbg can direct people so well posting so little and I'm screaming in the thread and no one does anything.
It's because nobody trusts you or your judgement, partly because of what you are saying and partly because of the way you are saying it. You call people stupid and make very little effort to try to understand their point of view, and you act stubbornly and unhelpfully.
I think we should kill VE. BM is an acceptable lynch. I think risen is just being himself and is probably town.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14440713
VE also isn't playing with his typical confidence. He says he doesn't care about his role because it doesn't help us find scum. He says that logic and reasoning help us find scum. He dismisses the reasoning presented against him by claiming his role whch does not align with this "logic and reasoning first" approach. He then goes on to provide us with no logic or reasoning to explain his reads and quits.
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On April 23 2012 08:01 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:51 marvellosity wrote:On April 23 2012 07:47 Risen wrote:
Layabout. Please respond. Why are you still on VE? Anyone else still on VE, why are you still on VE? terrible objection to gonzaw, terrible claim, terrible scumslip case on gonzaw, terribly timed claim in conjunction with gonzaw plan, and ragequitting. Since when is ragequitting a valid defence or pro-town play? It is not pro-town play, but it is typical VE play as town. He did something similar in SOAF IIRC.
-Blazinghand
I think he was co-hosting that game
Gonna go sleep.
If you are afraid of killing VE then kill BM, neither of them care about the game anyway.
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On April 23 2012 08:03 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:01 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 23 2012 07:51 marvellosity wrote:On April 23 2012 07:47 Risen wrote:
Layabout. Please respond. Why are you still on VE? Anyone else still on VE, why are you still on VE? terrible objection to gonzaw, terrible claim, terrible scumslip case on gonzaw, terribly timed claim in conjunction with gonzaw plan, and ragequitting. Since when is ragequitting a valid defence or pro-town play? It is not pro-town play, but it is typical VE play as town. He did something similar in SOAF IIRC.
-Blazinghand I think he was co-hosting that gameGonna go sleep. If you are afraid of killing VE then kill BM, neither of them care about the game anyway.
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I think we were correct to vote for VE given what we knew.
I think that it was irresponsible for Blazinghand to wait so long to pull his head out of marv's ass to tell us that VE had done this before, since that is super-fucking-relevant to judging his alignment, and by the time he pointed it out there were very few people left to read it or change their vote. He is also lording the fact that he made the call over us and trying to get us to trust him. BH was around for hours before the lynch when we were all here and he just tunnelled marv and ignored VE.
I think you guys need to stop calling for vigi's to shoot so early because in this set-up a vigilante that shoots night1 knowing that they are aiming for 2/4 mafia and only 2/18 players in the game, the longer the game goes better the chance of the shot, also with only 1 shot you would have to be very confident or very foolish to shoot today or even tomorrow in this set-up.
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On April 24 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 01:44 layabout wrote:
I think we were correct to vote for VE given what we knew.
I think that it was irresponsible for Blazinghand to wait so long to pull his head out of marv's ass to tell us that VE had done this before, since that is super-fucking-relevant to judging his alignment, and by the time he pointed it out there were very few people left to read it or change their vote. He is also lording the fact that he made the call over us and trying to get us to trust him. BH was around for hours before the lynch when we were all here and he just tunnelled marv and ignored VE.
I think you guys need to stop calling for vigi's to shoot so early because in this set-up a vigilante that shoots night1 knowing that they are aiming for 2/4 mafia and only 2/18 players in the game, the longer the game goes better the chance of the shot, also with only 1 shot you would have to be very confident or very foolish to shoot today or even tomorrow in this set-up. The bolded part is ridiculous. No, you were not correct given the information you had. Just admit you were wrong, and you were mis-using logic/sheeping/tunnelling into VE, which ultimately lead to you helping scum kill one of our blue roles. It bothered me that no-one voting VE yesterday cause answer the question I posed, "Why would VE do this as scum?". Admit you were wrong, re-read his filter, learn from your mistakes. Tryimg to make yourself look good after you were the one pushing hardest for a majority of the day against anyone who made good points about why to not lynch VE/why VE was probably telling the truth? (Against me and Risen later in the day) However, despite all this I've thought about it, and I think you were just geniunely mistaken and wrong. I don't think a scum, would push so hard all day with the amount of detail you did to lynching VE, knowing that he would flip blue. As of now I don't have any particulary good scum reads, I need to review the thread now knowing the flip. But I feel like Mattchew is probably town, and so is Risen, based on their actions prior to the lynch.
If i was using "mis-logic" please point it out so me. VE is the asshat that decided to quit playing rather than explain himself or try to help us.
If you think that BH is one of the people that made good points about why not to lynch VE then ask yourself why he waited until the last hour when it would have no impact instead of when it would have made a difference. When he entered the thread yesterday (when people were here) he promised to talk about VE's claim.
Remember that this is before VE's ass-retarded roleclaim (which I'll get to in a moment)
He looks at marv's vote for VE but avoid's giving us any of his own thoughts on VE.
He then waits until an hour before the lynch (when a small number of us were here) to tell us that VE has done this before and that we shouldn't vote for him. Once VE flips he tells us about how obvious it was to him and how he knew VE was town the whole time.
It should have been obvious that VE was playing crappy town play. It was obvious to me. It was obvious to Risen. In fact, it's interesting how obvious it was to people who put any decent thought into it or were intelligent, thoughtful people, that this was the case.
It's as if he had no interest in stopping us lynching VE but he did have an interest in trying make himself look good and cast suspicion on others. He has been tunnelling marv to get out of looking for scum, he has come up with increasingly contrived reasons to continue to tunnel him and he is making all of his other accusations on the basis that marv is scum.
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"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other"
- layabout
BH is trying to get town cred from the lynch even though he ignored VE until it was too late for him to stop the lynch.
We should lynch BlazingJitsu tomorrow.
If St. Daniel is posting in another game but not this one even though this started first then there must be a reason for this. It seems likely that this reason is that he rolled scum and is frightened to post.
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Mementoss why did you completely turn around your reads on VE, Risen and Marv?
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 23:35 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler [snip] +Your lack of focus not only annoys me but is suspicious, you can't make up your mind or stick to anything. Lets go through this for you: -Lets Lynch Gonzaw (in this fashion FOR THE TOWN LYNCH GONZAW IM SURE HES SCUM) -Lets Lynch Bill Murray ( in the same fashion) Then this: On April 22 2012 13:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Do we lynch BM or Mattchew? This is the first time you've even mentioned Mattchew in your filter since your first joke vote. You give no reasoning behind the Mattchew suspicion at all. Then this: On April 22 2012 22:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
The scum are Bill Murray, gonzaw, MidnightGladius, layabout as far as I can see. I want to kill BM first. Where'd Mattchew go? Now this: On April 22 2012 23:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not actually - I don't think I'm any better that anyone else - only slightly more experienced. I'm trying to use reason as a defense, but it's not really working.
Anyway, I'd like to hear EVERYONE'S thoughts on the BH/Jitsu hydra please. As hyperactive as they were pre-game, they should have been in here freaking out by now.
I actually feel like I want to lynch BH/Jitsu more than BM at this point. What do you guys think? Now you want to lynch BJ, even though they weren't on your scum team just a few posts earlier and you never even mentioned them other than, they should be all over my claim. They should be posting is your only reasoning against them. Not being in the thread at a particular time is not a case sorry to say. This is also very relevant to your scum meta in LI, odd claims, massive suspicion switches, can't keep your stories straight or keep your head on straight for that matter. You keep mentioning things such as after I flip you'll be sorry and such. As well as saying things like "THIS IS TOWNS BEST OPTION THEY WILL FLIP SCUM FOR SURE!" Your play is ridiculous to say the least. Your the most scummy in my mind right now.
Vote: VisceraEyes
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler [snip] +The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM.
VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that.
BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option.
Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP.
##Vote: Risen
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:11 Mementoss wrote:
Why are we lynching a JK cause hes bad again?
[image blocked]
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:20 Mementoss wrote:
I would also vote BM. I am beginning to think Marv is town, and since I agree with the defensive stance on VE risen took, it kinda makes me think hes town. If he was scum, he woulda just let VE die, and vote VE like a sheep.
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On April 24 2012 07:41 johnnywup wrote:
Reffering to St.Daniel: Maybe he rolled VT and got bored this game. Who knows. (PS I do think he's scum but him posting more in another game isn't necessarily a tell)
One thing I do know is you were pushing the VE lynch and I don't think you're in the position to try and lynch someone who opposed it.
Hmmm?
Since when did being on a mislynch make a players opinion less valuable?
There 4 scum players in this game and there were 7 players that voted for VE with unknown alignments. There are 12 other living players. Of that 12, 5 voted for BM which was the other lynch target, the other 7 votes were throwaway votes.
The players that didn't vote for VE either wasted their vote (and effectively chose not to use their vote) or voted for BM a player with no posts to analyse (an easy and safe vote to make without having to give any reasons).
How exactly are the players that didn't vote for VE so much better than the ones that did that they are in your eyes "above scrutiny".
If you want to think less of my opinions then you better think that i am scum or that i am wrong. Do not ignore what i am saying because i was wrong about VE's. Do not trust somebody because they didn't vote for him.
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On April 24 2012 08:07 johnnywup wrote:
not above scrutiny but I think unless you have an actual case against blazing you're more suspicious than him because you were on the VE lynch. obviously there were townies on the VE lynch but there were almost definitely scum on that lynch. Which makes you more likely to be scum than him. You didn't give an argument, you gave an opinion, and opinions of people on the VE lynch are worth less than others right now. So unless you come up with a good ARGUMENT against him, you're more likely to be under scrutiny than him.
What do you think of what i said a few posts ago?
You know, the argument i repeated about how him waiting until it was too late to stop the lynch before offering his opinion is suspicious.
Even if you think there are scum on the the votelist, you cannot treat everyone on it like scum. You scruntinise them, make some sort of judgement then respond accordingly. You should not be trying to discredit everyone on that list for being wrong if you are town.
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Would you all do me a favour and make this commitment?
"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other"
You don't need to post it but please try to stick to it.
If we continue being at each others throats we will ruin Igrok's game.
Let's try to be civil and stick to what will probably be terrible analysis that will cause other players and observers alike to recoil in horror.
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On April 24 2012 08:31 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 07:38 layabout wrote:
"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other"
- layabout
BH is trying to get town cred from the lynch even though he ignored VE until it was too late for him to stop the lynch.
We should lynch BlazingJitsu tomorrow.
If St. Daniel is posting in another game but not this one even though this started first then there must be a reason for this. It seems likely that this reason is that he rolled scum and is frightened to post.
Are you fucking kidding me? By what unfathomable absence of reason do you think I wanted VE to get lynched? I literally did everything I could to get Marv lynched.
-Blazinghand
You haven't addressed anything i have said about you.
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On April 24 2012 08:37 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 08:34 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:31 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 07:38 layabout wrote:
"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other"
- layabout
BH is trying to get town cred from the lynch even though he ignored VE until it was too late for him to stop the lynch.
We should lynch BlazingJitsu tomorrow.
If St. Daniel is posting in another game but not this one even though this started first then there must be a reason for this. It seems likely that this reason is that he rolled scum and is frightened to post.
Are you fucking kidding me? By what unfathomable absence of reason do you think I wanted VE to get lynched? I literally did everything I could to get Marv lynched.
-Blazinghand You haven't addressed anything i have said about you. I feel no need whatsoever to address the atrocity against human reason you call a case.
-Blazinghand
I never called it a case.
I never said "you wanted to get VE lynched"
I posted that you said you would address VE but that you made no attempt to defend him until it was too late, i think this is because you didn't want to stop him being lynched.
I have said that you are tunneling marv to avoid giving real opinions or making any real contributions. Furthermore if marv flip's town then you are able to back out of every other accusation that you have made* because they would no longer be valid.
They are the primary causes for my suspicion.
Also, many of the reason's behind your accusations are preposterous. + Show Spoiler +i cannot go into detail now as it's 1 am and i have to be up in a few hours
*i have not looked for a counter example i am mostly referring to your accusations against paqman and mignightgladius
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On April 24 2012 08:52 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 08:51 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:37 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 08:34 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:31 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 07:38 layabout wrote:
"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other"
- layabout
BH is trying to get town cred from the lynch even though he ignored VE until it was too late for him to stop the lynch.
We should lynch BlazingJitsu tomorrow.
If St. Daniel is posting in another game but not this one even though this started first then there must be a reason for this. It seems likely that this reason is that he rolled scum and is frightened to post.
Are you fucking kidding me? By what unfathomable absence of reason do you think I wanted VE to get lynched? I literally did everything I could to get Marv lynched.
-Blazinghand You haven't addressed anything i have said about you. I feel no need whatsoever to address the atrocity against human reason you call a case.
-Blazinghand I never called it a case. I never said "you wanted to get VE lynched" I posted that you said you would address VE but that you made no attempt to defend him until it was too late, i think this is because you didn't want to stop him being lynched. I have said that you are tunneling marv to avoid giving real opinions or making any real contributions. Furthermore if marv flip's town then you are able to back out of every other accusation that you have made* because they would no longer be valid. They are the primary causes for my suspicion. Also, many of the reason's behind your accusations are preposterous. + Show Spoiler +i cannot go into detail now as it's 1 am and i have to be up in a few hours * i have not looked for a counter example i am mostly referring to your accusations against paqman and mignightgladius You cannot go into detail? You ARE aware daybreak is in like 10 minutes? As a town player, I don't know I'll be alive in 10 minutes. What makes you so sure? You scum?
-Blazinghand In this post BH yet against avoids addressing the issue but he does make a wild accusation that is, "silly" at best. He is doing this to make himself look aggressive and confident so that people will have faith in him or think that he is town
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On April 24 2012 09:00 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 08:59 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:52 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 08:51 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:37 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 08:34 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:31 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 07:38 layabout wrote:
"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other"
- layabout
BH is trying to get town cred from the lynch even though he ignored VE until it was too late for him to stop the lynch.
We should lynch BlazingJitsu tomorrow.
If St. Daniel is posting in another game but not this one even though this started first then there must be a reason for this. It seems likely that this reason is that he rolled scum and is frightened to post.
Are you fucking kidding me? By what unfathomable absence of reason do you think I wanted VE to get lynched? I literally did everything I could to get Marv lynched.
-Blazinghand You haven't addressed anything i have said about you. I feel no need whatsoever to address the atrocity against human reason you call a case.
-Blazinghand I never called it a case. I never said "you wanted to get VE lynched" I posted that you said you would address VE but that you made no attempt to defend him until it was too late, i think this is because you didn't want to stop him being lynched. I have said that you are tunneling marv to avoid giving real opinions or making any real contributions. Furthermore if marv flip's town then you are able to back out of every other accusation that you have made* because they would no longer be valid. They are the primary causes for my suspicion. Also, many of the reason's behind your accusations are preposterous. + Show Spoiler +i cannot go into detail now as it's 1 am and i have to be up in a few hours * i have not looked for a counter example i am mostly referring to your accusations against paqman and mignightgladius You cannot go into detail? You ARE aware daybreak is in like 10 minutes? As a town player, I don't know I'll be alive in 10 minutes. What makes you so sure? You scum?
-Blazinghand In this post BH yet against avoids addressing the issue but he does make a wild accusation that is, "silly" at best. He is doing this to make himself look aggressive and confident so that people will have faith in him or think that he is town In this post Layabout avoids addressing the issue but he does be worthless
-Blazinghand
Since the issue is "Blazinghand respond to my argument" you are the only one that can address it.
Oh and i think zeph is not scummy.
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He seemed unsure of himself.
At the time of voting VE i was unsure of myself because his play made next to no sense as either alignment*. It was his refusal to answer questions that was the eventual tipping point for me.
It seems that this was also the case for zeph.
*Also that is why i hate these it makes no sense as mafia arguments. It made no sense as town either, we shouldn't give a player the benefit of the doubt for being anti-town.
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On April 24 2012 09:03 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 09:02 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 09:00 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 08:59 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:52 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 08:51 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:37 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 08:34 layabout wrote:On April 24 2012 08:31 BlazingJitsu wrote:On April 24 2012 07:38 layabout wrote:
"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other"
- layabout
BH is trying to get town cred from the lynch even though he ignored VE until it was too late for him to stop the lynch.
We should lynch BlazingJitsu tomorrow.
If St. Daniel is posting in another game but not this one even though this started first then there must be a reason for this. It seems likely that this reason is that he rolled scum and is frightened to post.
Are you fucking kidding me? By what unfathomable absence of reason do you think I wanted VE to get lynched? I literally did everything I could to get Marv lynched.
-Blazinghand You haven't addressed anything i have said about you. I feel no need whatsoever to address the atrocity against human reason you call a case.
-Blazinghand I never called it a case. I never said "you wanted to get VE lynched" I posted that you said you would address VE but that you made no attempt to defend him until it was too late, i think this is because you didn't want to stop him being lynched. I have said that you are tunneling marv to avoid giving real opinions or making any real contributions. Furthermore if marv flip's town then you are able to back out of every other accusation that you have made* because they would no longer be valid. They are the primary causes for my suspicion. Also, many of the reason's behind your accusations are preposterous. + Show Spoiler +i cannot go into detail now as it's 1 am and i have to be up in a few hours * i have not looked for a counter example i am mostly referring to your accusations against paqman and mignightgladius You cannot go into detail? You ARE aware daybreak is in like 10 minutes? As a town player, I don't know I'll be alive in 10 minutes. What makes you so sure? You scum?
-Blazinghand In this post BH yet against avoids addressing the issue but he does make a wild accusation that is, "silly" at best. He is doing this to make himself look aggressive and confident so that people will have faith in him or think that he is town In this post Layabout avoids addressing the issue but he does be worthless
-Blazinghand Since the issue is "Blazinghand respond to my argument" you are the only one that can address it. Oh and i think zeph is not scummy. The other issue is "how does layabout know he wont' be shot" -Blazinghand
layabout doesn't
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On April 24 2012 09:07 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 09:06 layabout wrote:
He seemed unsure of himself.
At the time of voting VE i was unsure of myself because his play made next to no sense as either alignment*. It was his refusal to answer questions that was the eventual tipping point for me.
It seems that this was also the case for zeph.
*Also that is why i hate these it makes no sense as mafia arguments. It made no sense as town either, we shouldn't give a player the benefit of the doubt for being anti-town. Right layabout. But my case basically hinged on how he acted after he voted for VE, not before.
I think nearly everything you have quoted reinforces the notion that he was unsure of himself, and it does not change my opinion of him by much.
part of marvellosity's case Alright, good. The second half of his filter is a goldmine though. He flip-flops in so many ways against me I'm having problem formatting it. Let's give it a go. Somewhat before the deadline: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:38 Zephirdd wrote:
Although I'm tempted to switch my "lastmin" vote(which seems to not be last min at all) to marv after what Risen pointed out. Ofc there is also the general reasons to vote him as pointed out earlier as well. Ok, here we have tacit support for BH's case. He then kinda retracts it shortly after Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:46 Zephirdd wrote:
Also, I'm skimming through marv's filter and I don't see anything glaring in particular, yet that marv/midnight "scumslip"(pointed out by Risen) is very interesting. It could be a coincidence, it could be what Risen said. So generally a null read now, and then ANOTHER mention of the Risen observation (MG and I asking for deadline times almost simultaneously). Fair enough, let's continue. His next post contained the following 'accident':
He says he is tempted to switch, he says that people have pointed out reasons to vote for you and mention's risen.
Presumably he then goes and reads through your posts. He then concludes. "i don't see anything too bad except the scumslip Risen pointed out" but he doesn't seem to be sure of it.
I fail to see how this makes zeph scummy.
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No more excusing intentionally bad play because X is bad or arrogant or a troll or always useless!
Shape up. Try to help. Establish your innocence. Stop making it harder to find scum.
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EPT
