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On April 23 2012 04:04 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote:
The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM.
VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that.
BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option.
Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP.
##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Risen Show nested quote +If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. If VE was right about anything it's that he is not a good shot for mafia. Saying let's not lynch this guy that people are willing to lynch because if he is town the mafia will kill him for us is crazy. If VE is town they his a a walking mislynch tying his own noose. Since mafia's greatest threat is the lynch, townies that might get mislynched are townies that the mafia benefit from keep alive. Please come up with a scenario in which this could happen. I can't think of one. no we don't (cough jailkeeper or a liar cough ) Show nested quote + Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. wtf? who is lynching him for information? point them out so that we can all say that you never lynch for information because that is dumb, you lynch to hit scum. I don't get this "I want us to vig BM not lynch him" the lynch is reliable but a vig shot in a game that might not have vigi's could have multiple Jailkeepers and has 2 bulletproof mafia is not garanteed to get us a flip.
Wat. Why wouldn't mafia wanna kill the JK? They probably won't tonight. But they eventually will have to. You really think they are going to leave a potential JK alive all game? If he can't prove his claim/ mafia doesn't kill him we can eventually lynchhim.
He can prove his claim by JKin a person and if we have a tracker tracks him, then if we have a tracker they can correctly say he did. Or if he happens to JK someone that was going to be hit by mafia and successfully saves him, aka only 1 KP goes through. I think your just being ignorant with this statment lol.
What JK is going to JK BM? None. None that want town to win. Also, as town why would you lie? You claim your shot before hand and then if it doesn't go through on BM its either a fake claim or GF. Lynch them both and we get 1 for 1. No reason for vig to lie at all. Also can you really tell someone is scum off of 3 lines of post/ action? I doubt it. Thats why it seems like a complete guess if hes scum or not. That is why he is a good vig shot. Lets lynch someone with the best case against them that is most likely to flip scum.
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On April 23 2012 05:02 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 04:39 Mementoss wrote:On April 23 2012 04:04 layabout wrote:On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote:
The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM.
VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that.
BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option.
Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP.
##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Risen If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. If VE was right about anything it's that he is not a good shot for mafia. Saying let's not lynch this guy that people are willing to lynch because if he is town the mafia will kill him for us is crazy. If VE is town they his a a walking mislynch tying his own noose. Since mafia's greatest threat is the lynch, townies that might get mislynched are townies that the mafia benefit from keep alive. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim Please come up with a scenario in which this could happen. I can't think of one. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. no we don't (cough jailkeeper or a liar cough ) Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. wtf? who is lynching him for information? point them out so that we can all say that you never lynch for information because that is dumb, you lynch to hit scum. I don't get this "I want us to vig BM not lynch him" the lynch is reliable but a vig shot in a game that might not have vigi's could have multiple Jailkeepers and has 2 bulletproof mafia is not garanteed to get us a flip. 1]Wat. Why wouldn't mafia wanna kill the JK? They probably won't tonight. But they eventually will have to. You really think they are going to leave a potential JK alive all game? If he can't prove his claim/ mafia doesn't kill him we can eventually lynchhim. 2]He can prove his claim by JKin a person and if we have a tracker tracks him, then if we have a tracker they can correctly say he did. Or if he happens to JK someone that was going to be hit by mafia and successfully saves him, aka only 1 KP goes through. I think your just being ignorant with this statment lol. 3]What JK is going to JK BM? None. None that want town to win. Also, as town why would you lie? You claim your shot before hand and then if it doesn't go through on BM its either a fake claim or GF. Lynch them both and we get 1 for 1. No reason for vig to lie at all. Also can you really tell someone is scum off of 3 lines of post/ action? I doubt it. Thats why it seems like a complete guess if hes scum or not. That is why he is a good vig shot. Lets lynch someone with the best case against them that is most likely to flip scum. 1]>insert didn't read gif< you ask me a question in response to something which answer that very question. My point is that scum will be in no hurry to kill VE if he is a Jailkeeper, because they can quite easily get him mislynched which protects them and because they can legitimately call him out for being scummy and because attention on him is attention that isn't on them. 2]Oh right. We can prove his claim if somebody whos role we cannot verify without killing them claims tracker and tells us that he visited them. Nobody is confirmed until they flip.we can only verify that he visits somebody if a player tells us he visited them and then flips tracker. We then know he visited them. We cannot know if he protected them until we know for certain that the player he visited was not a Godfather and was not visited by a jailkeeper, because it is still possible that he is a goon or a vig. Even then it would still be possible (but pants on head retarded) that he is a tracker. 3]My point is that if he does not die after somebody claims to have shot him there are a number of possibilities.You said that if he didn't die we would know that either the shooter of BM was a Godfather. But not only would we not know but we have a player that claimed uncooperative jailkeeper. If you were a jailkeeper with a townread on BM would you let him get shot? Probably not. Well what if a vig claims a shot on a godfather? If the mafia kill him then there should be no vig shot and we cannot infer anything about the target. You insisted that we don't lynch BM but vig him instead. I have explained why we cannot rely on vigi's to kill players for us. If you believe that as town you shouldn't lie and you believe that VE and Johnny are scumbuddies then i think your vote is on the wrong person
I didnt realize that vigs shoot after the goons. Your point 3 is good and well taken. I would not like to lynch BM still though. He could easily be either. Hes just bad.
I never said that VE and Johnny are scum buddies.
Right now I'm having trouble figuring out which case/which person is scummier out of. Risen VE and Marv. I'm leaning towards Risen atm and that is why I'm voting him. I will re-read the cases and re-evaluate before the lynch. But I am not willing to vote outside these three people.
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EBWOP: Last minute claims would solve this though. If they die, we know the shot didn't go through. If not we can realize that they are either lying or BM is GF. Then we can still lynch into them and go 1 for 1. So I retract what I said. Also JK is not going to JK BM. I don't think anyone has a "good" town -read on him as you say.
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On April 23 2012 05:20 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:17 Mementoss wrote:
EBWOP: Last minute claims would solve this though. If they die, we know the shot didn't go through. If not we can realize that they are either lying or BM is GF. Then we can still lynch into them and go 1 for 1. So I retract what I said. Also JK is not going to JK BM. I don't think anyone has a "good" town -read on him as you say. Again a large part of my point is that you were telling us that we could draw certain conclusions when in fact we could not.
Alright maybe I am misunderstanding you on multiple occasions. But Im pretty sure WE CAN draw conclusions from this. Im pretty sure its agreed on.
Ill go through the situations:
1. Vig last minute claims and shoots. He dies. His shot didn't go through. Inconclusive.
2. Vig last minute claims and shoots. The other person comes up town. Cause of the claim and extra KP we can assume he isn't lieing and is town.
3. Vig last minute claims and shoots. The other person doesn't die. We lynch into them, because either
a) The shot hit a GF or was faked. So we lynch them first. Then if they don't flip GF the other person is lying, and we lynch them and they flip GF.
b) The target was JK'd. But you should be able to pick a target that you know won't be JK'd so we can ignore that.
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I would like to note the reasoning behind the people voting VE here:
Ottoxol:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote:
He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6.
Is he a good player?
He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK.
If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes.
This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
Sloosh:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 07:13 slOosh wrote:slOosh's "VisceraEyes is scum" case.First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan.. Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points. Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points.
Second item: VE's "scumslip" catchIf you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal.
Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarificationThe post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed. More prodding and VE gives this "explanation" Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Because the whole plan hinges on JKs following the plan and I wouldn't in my LIFE follow a mass claim plan D1 giving scum information if I were a JK. To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:49 Ottoxlol wrote:
I still find it amazing that VE missed the point about JKs and still not responding directly why wouldn't the JKs not follow the plan.
So we'll know who are the vigs, and later scum wont be able to fakeclaim. We already discussed why wouldn't scum fake-claim. Scum doesn't want to kill real vigs first, so the information we are giving up is negligible
Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes) Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 15:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done talking about claiming plans. Anyone who has a role is free to speculate however they choose. You're giving scum all the information they need.
I've made my opinion known. I feel like it town wants to adopt this ridiculous claim plan, then JKs and Trackers are going to be forced to participate. I wouldn't advocate participating in the plan in the first place.
Anyway, my vote on gonzaw stands - especially now that he thinks I'm scum because I disagree with a mass-claim plan. Unbelievable. Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic? Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point). Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. ( here and here) Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
gonzaw's response to my vote was terribad. Everyone should be voting for him or explaining why he's town plz.
For anyone who's all like "Hey I don't think scum would stick their neck out with some plan", I say only "OH REALLY FOOL? You don't think scum would be willing to trade a modicum of suspicion on them for the identities of all of our vigs?"
He's pushing a scum agenda in trying to fish for claims, and I for one will NOT ALLOW IT! Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan.
Conclusion: VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum. ##Vote VisceraEyes
Bill Murray:
No reason
Marveoullosity:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:
Alright.
Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan"
Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out.
There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
layabout(couldnt find in thread vote hopefully this is right post reflecting):
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 21:15 layabout wrote:
First off.
##unvote marvellosity
BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking
I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way.
This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow.
Thirdly,
The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following:
You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim.
If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper.
[UON]Sentinel:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"?
Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE.
##Unvote: ghost_403
##Vote: VisceraEyes
St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
VE(for completeness):
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself.
##Unvote: Bill Murray
##Vote: VisceraEyes
For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition.
gg
As you read more and more, the only person voting VE with an actual case seems to be sloosh and layabout. Most people are voting him NOT because they think he is scum, but because his claim was bad. Or they think he is bad. We vote for people for SCUMMY actions! Bad town =/= scum.
Is this really worth the risk of eliminating 1/3 of our blue roles on day 1? Can VE technically prove his claim? Yes. But its very difficult. He needs to have a successful protect. Or he needs to be tracked and confirmed. I personally do not think he is the scummiest player atm. If you do, for all means leave your vote on him. Do not keep your vote on him because he is bad or bad claim. All people that voted for him for that reason, explain in detail why he is more scummy than Marveoulosity or Riven?
Layabout mentioned the high risk of the lynch but is still heavily supporting it:
On April 23 2012 02:22 layabout wrote:
The problem with VE is that lynching him is high risk, but since his reaction to questionng has been to martyr himself i think that right now we should take that risk.
I really oppose it because I do not want us to lose 1/3 our blues on day 1, from sheeping and stupidity.
It seems like this has gained the most sheeping. And people are taking the easy reasoning to vote VE. It seems suspicious to me, also most people are just ignoring and not commenting on the Riven case. Or they are not justifiying why VE is more suspicious than the other popular suspects. If you haven't done this, do it.
Currently waiting on Rivens reply towards Gonzaws case on him. All this being said I will not be voting VE tonight, it seems like it will be between Riven or Marv.
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On April 23 2012 06:53 marvellosity wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 06:47 Mementoss wrote:I would like to note the reasoning behind the people voting VE here: Ottoxol: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote:
He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6.
Is he a good player?
He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK.
If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes.
This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 07:13 slOosh wrote:slOosh's "VisceraEyes is scum" case.First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan.. Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points. Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points.
Second item: VE's "scumslip" catchIf you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal.
Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarificationThe post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed. More prodding and VE gives this "explanation" Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Because the whole plan hinges on JKs following the plan and I wouldn't in my LIFE follow a mass claim plan D1 giving scum information if I were a JK. To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 11:49 Ottoxlol wrote:
I still find it amazing that VE missed the point about JKs and still not responding directly why wouldn't the JKs not follow the plan.
So we'll know who are the vigs, and later scum wont be able to fakeclaim. We already discussed why wouldn't scum fake-claim. Scum doesn't want to kill real vigs first, so the information we are giving up is negligible
Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes) Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 15:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done talking about claiming plans. Anyone who has a role is free to speculate however they choose. You're giving scum all the information they need.
I've made my opinion known. I feel like it town wants to adopt this ridiculous claim plan, then JKs and Trackers are going to be forced to participate. I wouldn't advocate participating in the plan in the first place.
Anyway, my vote on gonzaw stands - especially now that he thinks I'm scum because I disagree with a mass-claim plan. Unbelievable. Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic? Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point). Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. ( here and here) Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
gonzaw's response to my vote was terribad. Everyone should be voting for him or explaining why he's town plz.
For anyone who's all like "Hey I don't think scum would stick their neck out with some plan", I say only "OH REALLY FOOL? You don't think scum would be willing to trade a modicum of suspicion on them for the identities of all of our vigs?"
He's pushing a scum agenda in trying to fish for claims, and I for one will NOT ALLOW IT! Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan.
Conclusion: VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum. ##Vote VisceraEyes : No reason Marveoullosity: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:
Alright.
Two things: I find VE's faux objection to gonzaw's case really scummy. It was never backed up by any convincing analysis and it was brushed over by "I don't like the plan"
Second: BH's tunnelling of me makes me despair. This is Day 1. I would really really really love to have super strong scummy cases to make on someone, but I don't. At the moment, I think sloosh's case on VE is as strong as it gets, and echos my own sentiments on how the game has played out.
There have been many more lurkers, but the only inconsistency I have found has been VE's nonsense.
##Vote: VisceraEyes (couldnt find in thread vote hopefully this is right post reflecting): + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 21:15 layabout wrote:
First off.
##unvote marvellosity
BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking
I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way.
This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow.
Thirdly,
The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following:
You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim.
If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper. [ UON]Sentinel: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"?
Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE.
##Unvote: ghost_403
##Vote: VisceraEyes
St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. : + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself.
##Unvote: Bill Murray
##Vote: VisceraEyes
For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition.
gg As you read more and more, the only person voting VE with an actual case seems to be sloosh and layabout. Most people are voting him NOT because they think he is scum, but because his claim was bad. Or they think he is bad. We vote for people for SCUMMY actions! Bad town =/= scum. Is this really worth the risk of eliminating 1/3 of our blue roles on day 1? Can VE technically prove his claim? Yes. But its very difficult. He needs to have a successful protect. Or he needs to be tracked and confirmed. I personally do not think he is the scummiest player atm. If you do, for all means leave your vote on him. Do not keep your vote on him because he is bad or bad claim. All people that voted for him for that reason, explain in detail why he is more scummy than Marveoulosity or Riven? Layabout mentioned the high risk of the lynch but is still heavily supporting it: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 02:22 layabout wrote:
The problem with VE is that lynching him is high risk, but since his reaction to questionng has been to martyr himself i think that right now we should take that risk.
I really oppose it because I do not want us to lose 1/3 our blues on day 1, from sheeping and stupidity. It seems like this has gained the most sheeping. And people are taking the easy reasoning to vote VE. It seems suspicious to me, also most people are just ignoring and not commenting on the Riven case. Or they are not justifiying why VE is more suspicious than the other popular suspects. If you haven't done this, do it. Currently waiting on Rivens reply towards Gonzaws case on him. All this being said I will not be voting VE tonight, it seems like it will be between Riven or Marv. Clearly you haven't bothered to read my posts if you maintain that what you spoilered under me is the main reason I'm voting VE.
Just read your filter, and it seems that what I spoilered was the TLDR version of why you voted him wasn't it? His case against gonzaws plan was bad and hes inconsistent. Why is he a better vote than Risen in you opinion since you never commented on that case (aka why is he scummier)? Also, do you personally think its worth risking a day 1 lynch of 1/3 of our blues? If so, why?
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I will lynch marv over risen, to get a majority on either of them over VE.
Just sayin'
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Right now as far as I can tell here is the votes:
marv: 2
VE: 8
BM: 3
Risen: 5
Everyone not on one of these, give your head a fucking shake and get onto one of them.
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Why are we lynching a JK cause hes bad again?
[image blocked]
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The fact that people that haven't contributed ANYTHING to this game. BM and Zephridd are just stopping by and like SUP? Ima last minute vote VE he is scummmmmmm. Then Zephridd was like wait, I fucked up that last minute part we actually had an hour LOL gg.
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On April 23 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote:
Gonna ask again, why is giving up a valid town defence?
It's not but does disagreeing to directing blues, a day 1 blue claim, and ragequitting, give you enough confidence that he is scum, to go about lynching our possible JK, when there are other scummy suspects?
Also BJ, I don't think the marv is gunna happen at this point TBH. The fact that he took his vote off VE, his main competition for getting lynched makes me think he is indeed looking out for the towns interests. (unless you think VE and marv is scum which I doubt)
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I would also vote BM. I am beginning to think Marv is town, and since I agree with the defensive stance on VE risen took, it kinda makes me think hes town. If he was scum, he woulda just let VE die, and vote VE like a sheep.
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EBWOP:
##Unvote: Risen
##Vote: BillMurray
For now
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On April 23 2012 08:24 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:20 Mementoss wrote:
I would also vote BM. I am beginning to think Marv is town, and since I agree with the defensive stance on VE risen took, it kinda makes me think hes town. If he was scum, he woulda just let VE die, and vote VE like a sheep. Realizes risen is the only one who saw the marv/mt scumslip, tries to buddy him. How about my FoS targets this game? Apparently calling everyone on VE scum is too broad. I think I've narrowed it nicely
I don't understand this post.
On April 23 2012 08:21 Risen wrote:
People risen wishes were dead: BM, mt, marv, Paq, zeph
These FoS targets?
I agree with BM, paq and zeph.
I'm on the fence with Marv.
And I Disagree with myself.
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Mattchew what are your thoughts other than BM:
aka, VE Risen Marv.
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On April 23 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote:
As time is running out, I would seriously like an answer to my couple of posts further up this page. Anyone?
I would say unless you are super confident VE would flip scum than BM is a better lynch.
BM - useless lurker that people are going to be wondering about all game. If he doesn't flip scum he flips Vanilla.
VE - If he doesnt flip scum he flips JK.
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On April 23 2012 08:39 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:37 Mementoss wrote:On April 23 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote:
As time is running out, I would seriously like an answer to my couple of posts further up this page. Anyone? I would say unless you are super confident VE would flip scum than BM is a better lynch. BM - useless lurker that people are going to be wondering about all game. If he doesn't flip scum he flips Vanilla. VE - If he doesnt flip scum he flips JK. So how do we resolve the VE situation given he's basically not playing? What do we do with him tomorrow?
Do you honestly believe he won't come back to play? At least to the point more than BM? I expect if he doesn't get lynched he will come back to his active self. Not 100% sure though, since he never came back to give new stances on anything. Think about this though. IF VE was scum, when the voting was getting this close, wouldn't he most definitly be back to change his vote? I mean if he was scum he would be responsible for losing 25% of his team and potentially half the KP.
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Alright so in 5 minutes we are either gunna see red or blue.
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This just proves my point earlier. That people are voting him completely based on bad play. Rather than scummy behaviour. They can't back up why the play makes sense from a scum point of view. Yet they can just say IT WAS A BAD CLAIM.... BAD CLAIM = SCUM GUYZ.
Well heres to hoping I'm wrong
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EPT
