EPTFuck it, okay.
##Unvote: Jackal58
##Vote: Tunkeg
For the town!
If anyone bitches about me bandwagoning...I just don't...
TL Mafia LI - Page 29
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Fuck it, okay. ##Unvote: Jackal58 ##Vote: Tunkeg For the town! If anyone bitches about me bandwagoning...I just don't... | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Like I said, I don't like people tunneling Tunkeg, voting for him and disappearing without commenting on anything else (which is exactly like you are doing). @VE: Yes, you are bandwagoning, but you still don't post your thoughts on anything else, you don't post any other reads, you are still not pushing anybody nor trying to drive discussion. Now I like this Tunkeg lynch less and less, the only thing missing is Toad voting Tunkeg as well, and maybe Tunkeg voting himself or something (or most likely me *sigh* ). | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
We do lynch people who are faking something, pretending to do think X while actually doing/saying Y. We do not lynch random people who we think to be bad in a game were 90% of the playerbase is a mixture of some new guys. Sure there might be mafias in there but those guys could very easily be bad townies as well. Therefore I am discrediting you. I think you're incredible wrong but I think you're honest with it. I'm fine with that for as long as I keep thinking that way. That's the reason I think ghost is the best lynch imo. I think this guy is faking big time. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On April 09 2012 19:03 FourFace wrote: johnnywup doesn't seem scummy to me at all except for being a little erratic in his defense (weak accusation I know but nevertheless crude). He had a slight difficulty with understanding what ST wrote in his first post, he didn't read my explanation of the bladder thing and overreacted about me claiming vanilla town / Lord which come to think of it has an interesting aspect to it after all, which is this: Scum might not know whether the role description in the PM mentions vanilla town or Lord. Which leaves the possibility that the people posting so early in the game who have claimed to be vanilla town (i.e. WBG + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2012 10:54 wherebugsgo wrote: yo I'm vanilla town come at me. On April 08 2012 11:41 EchelonTee wrote: WBG I'm counterclaiming you; I'm the real vanilla town. nice try fake claiming mr. scum. This is highly speculative though because it says that scum will be receiving fake townie fluff for roleclaims but do they get them right away or upon asking for them. In the latter case this could indeed have been a scumslip. I'd like to know how johnnywup feels about this issue and about my bladder thing which I am agreeing to drop at this point and on ST who's post he misunderstood. Yeah, that's exactly what I was going for. They see in the OP that it says Lord or Lady (Vanilla Townie) so I was thinking that maybe they assumed Vanilla Townie was in the PM because it's in most games PMs, while in this game it's just simply Lord. It's just a small possibility but it's still a possibility which is why I initially brought that up... it could be a town scum-slip too because they're so used to VT being the basic town role. VE bandwagoning? what is this? And where the hell is BH. This is worrying. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 10 2012 03:00 Toadesstern wrote: Gonzaw here is what we do and what we don't: We do lynch people who are faking something, pretending to do think X while actually doing/saying Y. We do not lynch random people who we think to be bad in a game were 90% of the playerbase is a mixture of some new guys. Sure there might be mafias in there but those guys could very easily be bad townies as well. Therefore I am discrediting you. I think you're incredible wrong but I think you're honest with it. I'm fine with that for as long as I keep thinking that way. That's the reason I think ghost is the best lynch imo. I think this guy is faking big time. What does the bolded part have to do with me? Give me your thoughts on Janaan and VE NOW! Really, me and other people find you suspicious because you don't post your thoughts on current events nor take stances, and here you are continuing to avoid posting your thoughts on current events nor taking stances. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Someone could still claim VT even if he is a Lord. Maybe because he doesn't want scum to actually know he is a Lord, and want to confuse them by the claim (which may possibly be a fake-claim). Kind of the same thing as in Aperture and in other Themed Games. VT is the specific role of the player, while Lord/other name is the role name. Claiming the role name exactly would count as an exact role claim, which scum will know is true. Claiming VT will not, and scum could even think that said player is blue or something. For instance, Midnight claimed VT in Aperture, when his role name wasn't VT at all, it was just the functionality of his role (and because his name was green, relating it to a VT). Either way I don't think that Lord/VT thing is important right now, so it's better ignored. | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
Katina's vote on him seems to be rather reactive because Toad talks about her in his early posts, criticizing how she makes naive decision based on meta this early. Suspicious: Katina tries to make ET look town because he's posting in CAPS which is unorthodox for him as town + Show Spoiler + (note that he has had one post vs Risen where he capsed, never since) That scratches out one person I have to worry about being mafia. - rather quick to see positive things in people they are familiar with but maybe that's how women are.Then she accuses Toad of hypnotoading, would she have done that if toad hadn't criticized her caps thing? gonzaw follows Katina and also goes after Toad hard for hypnotoading (posting large chunks of boring and detailed assessments of certain situations rendering motive and direction irrelevant because hard to make out) and points out that he hasn't been like that in other games where he was town and I can confirm that as I also took a glance at his filters. They go back and forth debating this and imo have thus clogged up the thread more than the combined efforts of me and Tunkeg. It took me a really long ass time and dedication to come to this point and I will now say something that my third personality believe is a possibility for a scum constellation. What if Toad, Katina and gonzaw planned this clogging up of the thread. If people know Toad to be slightly monotonous in his posting style they will confirm this as normal and not scummy. But then gonzaw can enter the scene and doubt this because he never played Toad. Then Toad can get emotional and say he won't be able to control himself etc. Then gonzaw can buss out some meta and go and on in circular dynamic until no one wants to read Toad's filter and gonzaw can be as loud and aggressive as he wants because no one pays attention anymore once he integrates Toad in his pile of accusations. And Katina is homefree, having voted for someone and having the reason for voting (i.e. repugnancy for hypnotoading) confirmed by someone who is super active so she can lurk for the rest of the day. They're whole conversations and everything just seem like they've written it in the scum QT first. I know it's rather uncommon for scum to forge connections between them but in this case I think it's possible. I just wanted to show this as a contrast to Tunkeg's and my "clogging up the thread" and how nobody seems to have recognized it as such. After all the drama following our posts wasn't really our fault but rather those who kept repeating and ruminating it. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:55 gonzaw wrote: @Janaan: So, any other thoughts? Do you think anybody else is scum? Like I said, I don't like people tunneling Tunkeg, voting for him and disappearing without commenting on anything else (which is exactly like you are doing). I get what you're saying about people just tunneling Tunkeg, I don't have a lot of time right now, but I will say that one person I find suspicious is johnnywup. The biggest thing that I noticed from him is that he basically said he finds Risen scummy, but gives no reason. Instead, he says that he'll wait for other people to think he's scummy too, and THEN push him. Maybe he's trying to stay out of the spot light? I'd like to know from johnny if he still finds Risen suspicious, and if so, why? He also gave early reads on fourface and sputnik, but never followed up on them, even though fourface wrote the "scummiest post in the thread" at that time. Be back in a few hours. | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
[QUOTE]On April 10 2012 02:55 gonzaw wrote: [even though fourface wrote the "scummiest post in the thread" at that time. [/QUOTE] Which was what? Don't just say that.. at least give a link or something ffs | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:39 Jitsu wrote: Hey Risen, did you happen to read my concerns about your earlier play? Any comments? I think what I did wasn't pro-town itself, but I don't think it was anti either. I think the result of it was pro-town, though. That is, got discussion started. I think that answers it, you'll have to be more specific if it doesn't | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 10 2012 03:20 Janaan wrote: I get what you're saying about people just tunneling Tunkeg, I don't have a lot of time right now, but I will say that one person I find suspicious is johnnywup. The biggest thing that I noticed from him is that he basically said he finds Risen scummy, but gives no reason. Instead, he says that he'll wait for other people to think he's scummy too, and THEN push him. Maybe he's trying to stay out of the spot light? I'd like to know from johnny if he still finds Risen suspicious, and if so, why? He also gave early reads on fourface and sputnik, but never followed up on them, even though fourface wrote the "scummiest post in the thread" at that time. Be back in a few hours. So you just forget about Jitsu, the guy you thought was scum and you made a case against previously. @4Face: It's kind of early to consider scum doing majestic 3-way bussing, even more if you don't think all 3 players are scum at the same time (do you think I'm scum?). So that's completely irrelevant for now. And no, Katina is ultra-lurking and I would never let her keep lurking more as you imply. I don't get scummy vibes from the posts she made, but she needs to contribute more nonetheless So, you agree that Toad is "hypnotoading". Alright, then what do you think about his other behaviour? What do you think about him being convinced ghost is scum because he's "faking something"? What do you think about Toad just not commenting on anything other than saying ghost is scum and discrediting me? On April 10 2012 03:26 FourFace wrote: EBWOP: About the scum constellation, note that after all the stuff gonzaw wrote about Toad he hasn't bothered voting for him. Toadesstern(1) Katina Janaan(3) gonzaw Kenpachi Jackal58 About 7.5 hours to the lynch. Remember you need a majority (16 players) to lynch! Previous post of mine: I want you, Janaan and VE dead right now, but Janaan is the one closest to get lynched. People, if you have a vote on a player that has no other votes, THEN SWITCH YOUR VOTE TO TUNKEG/JANAAN/SOMEONE WITH VOTES ON HIM OR WE DON'T LYNCH TODAY | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
On April 10 2012 01:31 MidnightGladius wrote: FourFace, thanks for toning down the Nefron in your last half-dozen posts. They were much easier to follow, and your willingness to accept advice and play with more accountability eases my suspicions on you. Toad, I'm not sold on the use of the word bandwagon as a scumtell. It seems really conditional on the player in question, and that can be chancy at best. In the interests of consolidating our votes, and as I have classes through much of the remainder of the Day, I say we lynch Tunkeg. He's clearly not interested in defending himself or posting reads, his thread presence has been limited to proposing an odd plan, attempting to argue its merits, and then insulting everyone. One way or another, we don't need players like this. ##Unvote: FourFace ##Vote: Tunkeg I'd prefer you find more substantial reasons to vote for someone and not focus on consolidating our votes. You seem to be extremely intolerant when it comes to how people chose to play the game. You seem to actively condemn any indication of personality and attempt to go unusual ways. Do you think mafia is such an over-analyzed game that there is no room for deviant ways to approach it? I'd much rather have Tunkeg in the game longer to see how he reacts to certain developments in the game, you on the other hand seem to predictable to me and I wouldn't mind getting rid of you if I were to exclusively pursue having fun while playing this. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On April 10 2012 03:20 Janaan wrote: I get what you're saying about people just tunneling Tunkeg, I don't have a lot of time right now, but I will say that one person I find suspicious is johnnywup. The biggest thing that I noticed from him is that he basically said he finds Risen scummy, but gives no reason. Instead, he says that he'll wait for other people to think he's scummy too, and THEN push him. Maybe he's trying to stay out of the spot light? I'd like to know from johnny if he still finds Risen suspicious, and if so, why? He also gave early reads on fourface and sputnik, but never followed up on them, even though fourface wrote the "scummiest post in the thread" at that time. Be back in a few hours. Indeed. I'm not trying to stay out of the spotlight but most of the time I'm spending reading this thread because it moves so fast with so many large posts (First non-mini, 3rd game including minis). Like I said before, I didn't givereason for Risen because I was just agreeing with points other people have said. I don't want to just be repeating people, I did think FF's post (link!) was super scummy. Saying you'll only ninja vote, without giving reasons, tell me that's not scummy. I never followed up on it because it was early in the game and his more recent posts have redeemed himself for me. Sputnik still looks a bit scummy but I don't think that he's the person to lynch today, so I never followed up on that. | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
so you're ignoring what I just said and respond with an OMGUS because I am apparently on your "naughty list" The naughty list lol | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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FourFace
701 Posts
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:16 slOosh wrote: You give your reads on everything that is going on in the thread BUT you don't say anything about Tunkeg. Why? Because I believe there are better options to out. Both Janaan and sputnik concern me, and my love for the Queen, and I would most definitely prefer that they hang this hour. I saw his case and initially felt it as an interesting but meaningless conversation starter. Something others have done, but in a less abrasive manner. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 09 2012 21:40 Mementoss wrote: Artanis[XP]: + Show Spoiler + Only has the opening post. If you check out his filter from SNMM IX he was very very active day 1, and basically was a leader in trying to scum hunt. This game hes just lurking in the shadows. Maybe hes busy sure, but Im not going to let him slide by un-noticed and just drop a vote today and leave. Want to hear from him. SNMM IX: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322222 I was active in a small newbie game, found a way to become basically confirmed town and there was a limited amount of people and players to go through. The last big game I played in I was town and posted very little (filter of that here). We handidly lost that game though so it's time to pull my weight. I'm going to focus on the lynch candidates of today rather than throw in new suspects as right now we need to focus. Since Tunkeg and Janaan seems to be the prime candidates with votes on them, I'll share my opinion on them. Tunkeg He seemed fairly eager to start the game, showing great enthousiasm. Notes that ET vs Risen basically gave us no information and states that he's against no lynches, a fairly obvious standpoint. After this the spreadsheet thing comes up which is clearly a horrible thing, but it's not something I see as explicitly Mafia, more as dumb. Stupid actions generally do not indicate mafia, in fact, it's more often than not townies with ill-thought out ideas. He then rambles on about his sheet, defending on how it works which is fairly irrelevant other than cluttering up the thread. Notes that he brought up the sheet to bring up discussion. Though I don't think it's a good play, I don't see it as inherently scummy, for which I'd like to note the first post I made: "Don't lynch players for being bad". Hate his attitude though. Verdict: Leaning bad town. Janaan On April 08 2012 09:51 Janaan wrote: I see we started early. Excellent. This will be my first non-newbie mini game, so bear with me while I get a handle on reading and analyzing a much bigger thread with 3 times the players. Only things that have really stood out to me so far: I like VE's initiative to get rid of lurking in a proactive way. My town games have pretty much been ruined by just a couple people lurking, and I imagine with more people playing, that problem could potentially be even worse. Sl0osh, I know you're a pretty smart guy, I find it interesting that you didn't understand the Stealthy mechanic, at least well enough to have a basic understanding of it. The first thing that came to my mind when you asked for clarification? You could need more information because you ARE stealthy. I've got my eye on you. Other than that, so far it seems to be mostly people posting fluffy first hour of Day 1 statements as people often do. God Save the Queen! The point has already been made by previous posters, but particularly the third point stands out to me. If you have a specific role, you don't tend to post questions about that role in the thread but rather PM the host about it. Therefore I find it odd that Janaan finds someone suspicious for asking about the mechanic in the thread. The point gonzaw made about it struck home with me as well. he doesn't even seem to directly confront sloosh. He says "I find it interesting", seems too wishy washy to be an actual accusation. Again, seems like a classic scumtell of accusing someone without directly confronting them, hoping someone else will read it and confront sloosh about it; or to put some doubt in sloosh so he can come back to said suspicious later, while nobody notices said suspicion right now. In the Mini Mafia game I played, scum never called out their buddies directly, but rather used a questioning way to give their scumbuddies a chance to respond to it, making it look like at least one of the two isn't mafia when people go back on their filter. That could very well be the case here as well. Janaan also replaced into said game, and started off by calling his scumbuddy out as leaning scum. This way if one of them flipped, the other would look innocent as a result, especially since it wasn't that heated for Nova yet. He seemed to feel 'guilty' about being mafia, asking the town to give him a chance to make up for his predecessor. It'll be interesting to note to see if this behaviour continues. Notes that FourFace is probably innocent, which from what I've read I'd also say he's leaning town. He also hasn't been as apologetic yet as in the previous game I played with him, which makes him a bit greener in my eyes though I haven't liked what I've read this game. Verdict: Null, slightly leaning scum A candidate that caught my attention while reading the thread that also gained a bit of traction was sputnik.theory. All his posts so far have been short and devoid of real content. Right now he only has 2 votes, but given I'm reluctant to vote for Tunkeg he's only got one less vote then the next candidate. + Show Spoiler [filter analysis] + On April 08 2012 22:31 sputnik.theory wrote: Hi all. I'm against voting for anyone currently posting in this thread, especially on turn 1. Let's take a little time to let the game get going before we jump to conclusions. I'm agreed on voting for any inactive players tho. Back to post after easter, I'll be reading the thread all day. This post feels incredibly scummy; The easiest target for any player are lurkers. The best part is you're not even accusing any specific player, just inactive players. Once they start posting they're no longer an active player. Brilliant! Accusing the only group that will never accuse you back. On April 08 2012 22:38 sputnik.theory wrote: FourFace, I don't think you are a very good thinker for thinking that. In other words, why don't you practice thinking a little bit more before you start throwing around empty accusations. Gets called scum and all he has is OMGUS. This could just be bad play, or it could be mafia thinking they can get away with it since their accuser didn't spend much time on their case, as FourFace just said "sputnik is mafia btw". On April 08 2012 23:03 sputnik.theory wrote: OMFG BISU vs FLASH!!!! sorry for the offtopic start to this post but I'm Hyped! FourFace I accuse you of making mountains out of molehills. ALL of your claims/accusations are so shallow that I have a hard time refuting them without stooping to your level. I'll just say that it's in my interest to be nice and promote people getting along and against it for the town to make stupid moves. Also, I hope no one gives a shit what you think things 'smell like'... I definitely don't. Offtopic start, and instant apology. Since Scum often feels guilty for being scum starting with an apology fits the profile. The rest of his post is just OMGUS, in stark contrast to the apologetic start and the message of his post. On April 09 2012 01:50 sputnik.theory wrote: Guys you can't adopt the strategy of killing the guy with the worst ratio. You'll just be making his ratio worse making him an even bigger candidate to get lynched the next time he plays and so on... even though he's just as likely as anyone else to be 'guilty'. It's pretty ludicrous strategy. A bad player will be bad whether he's on town or mafia so there's no inherent advantage to either side in targeting 'bad players'. Apparently we'll use this strategy every game according to sputnik, this argument doesn't make much sense at all. Soft defense on Jackal, but he's attacking the sheet for all the wrong reasons; it shouldn't not be used because it'd ruin someone's ratio, but it shouldn't be used because it isn't random at all. This post leads me to believe sputnik will probably not contribute to town either way. On April 09 2012 01:59 sputnik.theory wrote: Every other person who posts is so quick to accuse people of frivolous shit. You say that I'm a lurker because my statements were 'fuck all shit'? What sort of deep and compelling analysis are you looking for in the first few pages of a mafia thread? What's important is for everyone to get a few words in and start to develop some actual relationships to analyze over the coming days? Complains about people throwing accusations around? The whole point of pressuring is so people post more and the scum slip in their posts. Sputnik not wanting pressure seems very anti-town. On April 10 2012 00:38 sputnik.theory wrote: I honestly don't see any advantage to the town in lynching anyone unless I'm more then 50% sure that he's scum... To me it seems like the chance of lynching a green or blue is higher then getting a red. That said I take the comments made about my newbie-ness to heart and so I'll try to adapt to what is being asked of me. My standing in this game was called into question origionally on grounds that I dismissed as illogical but I did myself no favors in reacting in a hostile way. I am hostile to stupidity, not to nessecary prodding and analysis that we'll all be going through. For the time being I have not decided my vote for day 1. We'll just wait until town magically passes by the 50% barrier for your vote then. If we mislynch half the time and lynch correctly half the time, I'm pretty sure town would win unless my math is horribly off. The rest of the post seems fairly apologetic, once again prolific for a mafia with a guilt syndrome. On April 10 2012 01:36 sputnik.theory wrote: That isn't how I see things going down FourFace. To me people start at 20% chance of being scum and work their way up from that as incriminating information and analysis comes out of the thread. The conflicts occurring in this game so far don't strike me as significant enough to bump up the threat level of the people involved in them. All the candidates for lynching still seem to me to have a higher chance of being town. That said I recognize that a lynch is likely to take place on day1 and I'll be voting as to minimize the damage done to the town. A vote of no-lynch strikes me as useless unless their is enough support for that choice to carry the day. Therefore I'm deliberating the following question to decide my vote: Should I vote to lynch a player who's no more or less suspicious because I find him distracting in the thread or should I vote for a person who has the highest chance of being mafia (though he's still more likely to flip town)? If you're not scum, you should be voting on the person you believe is most likely mafia. We're here to win the game, bad players can be ignored. Questions and apologies tend to distract from the actual content you've posted, which has been bad, and apologies don't help your case but make you look scummier instead. Verdict: Heavily leaning scum. I'm voting Sputnik, but I will support a Janaan lynch too. ##Vote: sputnik.theory | ||
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