EPTDeath Factory Mafia 2 - Page 2
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 09:05 prplhz wrote: How about Tobon? Nothing in his filter even though he calls out for scum hunting, most of it is just pointing out random stuff and summarizing the thread. I'm not decided yet but he's looking pretty bad. Why are you asking about those three specifically? I have no idea why we are sending Palmar for that item. It's not really that powerful and we can still determine his alignment without him getting it (well, it wouldn't hurt if he would post a little more). wherebugsgo already pointed out potential dangers, scum could have a hidden PoP role, like a PoP Floridian Toy, and then they could pull (push) Palmar over the edge when he gets the item. killing one of the best town players. This is really risky and I'm totally against it and I think people should have thought more carefully about this before going through with it, and then they should have concluded that it wasn't worth it at all. Are you going to answer my request or are you going to continue to respond by dodging and turning the question back on me? My request was simple; tell me what you think of those players. Please explain why Tobon is a better choice for kill than Bluelightz. On April 02 2012 09:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote: @WBG: I'm not exactly sure who I want to kill right now. Based off this last post, and thinking that giving Palmar an item because he asked for it is the most pro-town thing we could do, maybe VE. Or, based on his complete lack of effort, we could flip Palmar. What do you think of Palmar and VE, WBG? I see you linked a couple people who haven't posted and said you want to kill them, so what do you think of Palmar with his one post? At this point I'd like to keep an eye on VE. I agree with what you've said so far about him, but because he's generally rather active as both alignments, and he plays relatively well regardless, he'll be hard to read if he actually is scum. I don't think he is the best choice to kill right now, though. As for Palmar, I'm completely fine with leaving him in the kill zone right now. You're right in that he hasn't done anything; if he's town, he'll have to explain why he needs to be pushed out. I for one am going to save my push for Bluelightz or someone else (depending on who seems scummiest within the next 12 hours or so). As of now it's Bluelightz because he's actually tried playing, but scampered away at the slightest hint of pressure. That's identical to his play from the mini I hosted. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 09:34 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo Dodge? I answered one question and then I asked you a question, that seems pretty fair to me. Why are you dodging instead of just answering my god damn question? If you just answered then I'd probably answer your question too, well, maybe. While I'm leaning in some direction on all of them, I don't want to lynch any of them right now so I'm keeping my reads to myself. I didn't say that Tobon is better than Bluelightz. He is though, don't you agree? Or am I never going to get any answer out of you? Hopefully they'll both come into this thread and we can get a better look at them. Right now, Tobon looks more careful than Bluelightz, who is very clearly trolling. Leaving Palmar in the red zone is the epitome of "guilty until proven innocent". I'm holding on to my push until he's back out of the red. It's a shame that the further people pull him into the red, the more people will have an excuse for holding their pushes until he's out again. If you people want to go through with this plan then you start pulling Palmar to that item, the last puller should coordinate with the first pusher so that he doesn't stay very long in 24. I'm not going to repeat myself, but yes, it's clear you're dodging my question. You do it yet again and try to paint me as the person who is being uncooperative. Your question of "why are you asking about those players" serves no purpose other than easing the burden on you. No possible answer I could give you would tell you anything about my alignment. However, you are dodging giving reads on several important players. Scum hate giving reads on players. In addition: If you just answered then I'd probably answer your question too, well, maybe. Thank you for admitting that you would have never answered my question to begin with. My suspicions were correct. Right now, Tobon looks more careful than Bluelightz, who is very clearly trolling. You make this assertion on the basis of what, exactly? What has Bluelightz said that is indicative of him "clearly trolling," and what has Tobon said that is indicative of the opposite? Leaving Palmar in the red zone is the epitome of "guilty until proven innocent". I'm holding on to my push until he's back out of the red. It's a shame that the further people pull him into the red, the more people will have an excuse for holding their pushes until he's out again. If you people want to go through with this plan then you start pulling Palmar to that item, the last puller should coordinate with the first pusher so that he doesn't stay very long in 24. No it isn't. I'm fine with leaving Palmar there because I have only one push and I'd rather use it to kill someone else than save Palmar. I made my opinions clear earlier and there was nothing else I could have done to stop BM and VE from pulling Palmar into the red zone. You say that you're holding your push for the exact same reason you say it's a shame. Rather odd for you to say that. On April 02 2012 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Watch me?! Watch me watch you Bugs! I SEE YOU!!! What do you think sir? I'd like your thoughts on Syllogism, layabout and MrWiggles sir. WATCH ME AWAIT YOUR RESPONSE!!! I'll respond to you when prpl decides to answer my question. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 13:04 VisceraEyes wrote: So Bugs is confirmed scum, maybe Wiggles. Anyone wanna check my math? rofl what | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 13:21 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know man, you're being all like careful and diplomatic and shit. Being reasonable is a scumtell with you Bugs. You haven't called me or Palmar scum or retarded once yet. And to top it off, you mistakenly "thought" that it takes 15 pushes to lynch Blue. Something's going on with you, I'm just sayin. I'M JUST SAYING GUY lol. figures. I didn't mistakenly think it takes 15 to kill Bluelightz; I thought it took at least 13 (21-8 = 13) but that was because I forgot about the stack mechanic thingy. As for "being reasonable = scum" I'm not even going to bother arguing that, because my demeanor has nothing to do with my alignment. My agenda is the only thing that reflects my alignment. I'm going to finalize my push since I go back to school tomorrow. ##push Bluelightz | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 14:14 Snarfs wrote: Home now, just got caught up reading the thread. Probably only going to post this once then head to bed so I'm not too exhausted for work tomorrow. Really interesting for me to see people pushing and pulling without giving reasons and getting away with it I.E. cascades. Pulling Palmar "as a rolecheck" and in doing so acting against his own wishes that people not use their PoPs lightly? Hopefully I'm not the only one who sees how terrible it would be for town to let people get away with this. Laying down my push here as I think this is the most scummy thing that's happened in this game so far and I want to size up reactions. ##Push cascades I'm also slightly suspicious of Bill Murray's claim, if both he and VE are mafia it would be a decent way to "confirm" both of them as town, using me as a pawn; or if BM is scum just trying to gain some cred. Sort of WIFOM though so I will just add that BM claiming that he'd die to verify mine and VE's alignment makes me want to say that they are most likely both town as well, but again, nothing is confirmed. The math mistake by wbg does not make him scum  . On the other hand, his pointing out that a town Palmar could very well be pushed off the edge by scum seems like quite a towny thing to bring up. Wbg and VE agreeing that Bluelightz is scum, I see as a good thing, especially since they both seem town (not a contradiction to my last paragraph, read closer), we may have found 2 scum already on day 1. Now though, I think that we should push cascades into the incinerator as he's closer and he's just as scummy as Bluelightz.if you thought Bluelightz is scum,why the hell would you waste your push on cascades? I'm just wtfing and this logic right now | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 14:21 syllogism wrote: How is using a pull as a rolecheck wasteful? Pulls can generally only be used to "save" someone, which isn't particularly towny as especially early on that means using your power against the wishes of the majority. Furthermore, since then people have been pulling palmar towards the item quite "lightly"; are they too suspicious? syllo, would you kill Bluelightz right now? Who are you going to push? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 14:27 syllogism wrote: Bluelightz hasn't so far said anything that indicates to me that he isn't playing his normal game, besides possibly his x,y,z,a are town post, so I wouldn't kill him right now. You on the other hand haven't quite been playing your confident style and have been asking more questions than usual, so if I were to push someone right now it would be you. if you think I am scum, you can push me. Mind linking me to a game that Bluelightz has played as town that supports your assertion? Because quite frankly, I don't believe you. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 02 2012 14:55 syllogism wrote: Just the "this post kind of looks coached" post? I never said he looks coached. On April 02 2012 14:55 syllogism wrote: All I am seeing is the same kind of short posts he always makes and his tone doesn't seem any different than normal. A bit earlier you said you don't want to push bluelightz because you dont want to use your PoP yet, but now you are encouraging me to use mine; this doesn't seem like the confident town wbg but rather the more careful scum one. It has nothing to do with the tone of his posts but rather his activity. Bluelightz chose to begin playing, and upon receiving pressure, he immediately disappeared. He has since said nothing. This is identical to how he acted in my mini upon receiving pressure (as the scum roleblocker). layabout agreed; he was hydraed with him. Could I be wrong? Sure. But as town he posts more than he has done so in this game. look at these two scum filters: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120&user=235418¤tpage=2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321159&user=256428 Then look at this town filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210&user=235418¤tpage=2 when no one is talking, he encourages discussion. In this game, he just says "idk what to do". He additionally has much more content in his posts than when he is scum. No, it's not a ton more than the average townie, but you can clearly tell that there's a difference merely in the amount of effort he wants to put in. My only concern at the moment for this game is that there has been relatively little pressure and discussion about scum. Too much time has been spent on discussing Palmar and the item (speaking of Palmar, he has yet to do anything as well, and he seemed fine with the idea of going for the item, not even fearing for his life). In the case Bluelightz is not scum we have no alternate. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I make mistakes all the time as town, in fact I make them more often. There is no case on me and it's actually making me wonder why syllo and VE are pushing me. I didn't think either are scum but it's affecting my reads. At any rate I don't like Palmar's play at the moment. He hasn't been very clear with us and his power could have easily screwed us if he had kept it a secret. We would've needed an instant kill if he decided to flip to save himself. I'm still fine with killing him. Even more concerning is that Mattchew only cares about palmar getting the item. I'd very much like to see both players flip. Mattchew has done no scumhunting whatsoever and has chosen to stay away from the kill discussion. + Show Spoiler + he also doesn't seem as annoying as he was from GoT, so that's something there. Risk.nuke hasn't done anything beyond his roleclaim either. It seems almost too lurky, so I'm willing to give him some more time. Finally I would also be fine with killing prplhz. In his last post he says this: On April 02 2012 22:00 prplhz wrote: Hey guys stop obsessing about risk.nuke and Sbrubbles: neither of them have made any posts yet so they are going to get modkilled or replaced. The only thing you can say for certain about them is that they're not here but that doesn't make them scum. It's a problem that will solve itself, either they post or they get modkilled. In either case, any plan for lynching them now is pretty stupid and is probably something scum would like. Unlike syllo and VE, who showed no hesitation in calling me scum, prplhz chose to indirectly push the idea that I'm scum because I put pressure on risk.nuke and Sbrubbles. I am the only person to mention both of these names (from what I recall) but prplhz does not call me scum for it. This suggests to me he wants to see what develops from what he has said, as opposed to actually taking a proper stance and defending it. All of prplhz's posts this game are like that. There is no clear stance in any of them, and he avoids answering very simple questions about his reads. Since he is obviously never going to answer the question I posed at the beginning, I'll answer you now VE: I think at this point that syllo needs to step up his game, but I don't find any reasons to call him scum. Layabout seems to be playing fine at this point, and Palmar is high up on my kill list. I put you in the same boat as syllo, although I think your play so far has been better. Of course none of this will mean much until the flip today. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 03 2012 04:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, technically I didn't even correct him when you said I did - I didn't see that you had corrected him and corrected him much later than that. I was referring to the number of pulls to pull Blue off the back of the board...not correcting the number of pushes to get him into the zone in that post. But no, you're not missing anything there. The fact that Bugs didn't respond to your correction and Wiggles didn't even notice it is just as damning in my opinion. But it doesn't matter ultimately because I've used my PoP's this cycle. I'm just putting that out there. And this is only part of my reasoning anyway - the other part is his contradictory behavior. If you don't agree laya it's cool - if I'm right, he'll continue to exhibit other suspicious behavior. Why would I respond twice to the same correction? This is like the time someone tried calling me scum because I omitted pronouns in my sentences lol | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Give reads. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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I argued against this whole thing precisely because of something like this. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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wherebugsgo
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We can't save Palmar just by you saying "we need X Pushes and Y pulls," we need to know the target of the action. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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wherebugsgo
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The lowest risk maneuver here is to kill Sbrubbles. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Why is that? Syllo, please explain yourself. In addition, I'm hesitant about saving Palmar until he gives us reads. From what he said, if it's true, he's probably town. However, I don't want to take chances or waste PoPs if we aren't for sure. The only way to ensure we're dealing with a townie Palmar is to see whether or not he will actually provide us with reads. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
##pull Palmar | ||
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