EPTI do not sow
A Game of Thrones Mafia
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
I do not sow | ||
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chaoser
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and ##vote: Acrofales He's mafia. Hodor told me. Just so. | ||
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chaoser
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Firstly, Acro was picked for a number of reasons and these are all important when looking at the reactions from him as well as from others: 1) He's a newbie 2) His very first post is very telling: He not only takes on a very defensive posting style ("Host didn't say I can't" and "self-deprecating - this is only idle speculation") but he then says we should just ignore WBG while also uselessly speculating about WBG's wincon. Add his newbie-ness with his defensive posting style and I figured he would probably overreact to people blind voting for him, especially early on. And I was right as this behavior can be seen across all his posts. This by itself (overreacting, being overly defensive) is a null tell when looked at just from the ens of "newbie" and doesn't say much about his alignment. What says MORE about alignment, however, is how some people have started to react in problematic ways around his posting. The one that stands out the most to me is Mattchew. He followed my vote for acro with his own vote, a way of creating pressure on a player that many players like to do and is often seen starting off games. However, while most townies deliver on the pressure, he never delivers. He merely posts a lot of one liners and looks like he's tunneling, posting ridiculous things like: On March 22 2012 03:22 Mattchew wrote: explain to me why you are not scum. you have 90 minutes On March 22 2012 05:16 Mattchew wrote: where you at homeslice and why should i think you are not scum which is basically this and would never result in pressure in the first place: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251919 He's obviously been active and in thread all day as can be seen by his frequent posting times (1:00-2:00-3:00 etc) and yet he has not commented on anything else aside from tunneling acro, even when the other stuff happening in thread is tied to acro or has been a reaction to acro's posting. Mattchew has literally added nothing to the discussion while looking like he's applying pressure. It's basically false pressure. Aside from him, I also found SLJ/sandroba's posting inadequate. He posts a throwaway accusation against lyter and then posts a useless threat about tunneling people who reference ASoIaF too much, which is completely detrimental to the game (ignore the references, hunt scum) and then finally misrepresents Greymist's obvious joke/bait statement about lynching WBG. Step it up please. Syllo/Sandro should be a strong townie team, especially since they have the luxury of having two people posting together. I expect more and we should all be keeping aware of their participation level. gumshoe's response to Acro's situation was also weird and problematic. His first suggestion to Acro was to role claim. Now, had that been towards a more experienced player I would have less problems with but since it's to a newbie, there was a decently high chance acro might have actually claimed (as can be seen in the recent games where there have been day one role claims). Newbieness? The rest of his posts seem to suggest so but I will be keeping tabs on him as the game goes on. For now ##unvote: acrofalas and a few questions to DoYouHas. Aside from him being defensive, is there anything else that makes you think Acro is mafia? What about mattchew's non-pressure? What do you think of greymist? and can you give me a list of the top three people you are suspicious/getting scum reads from? | ||
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On March 22 2012 06:10 Mattchew wrote: then MrZentor, bad reading comprehension in hand, makes a terrible post with his lead point of his slippery slope theory being untrue because Mattchew (who is awesome, sexy and lover of all townies) never even voted for Acrofales! This is semantics. While you didn't actually vote for him, you bluffed a vote and made it seem like you voted for him. The impression matters. You tried for pressure but then never followed up with real pressure. What kind of pressure will "prove you're not mafia" apply? None. | ||
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On March 22 2012 07:35 Mattchew wrote: lol so you want me to comment on what I am involved with already? wut? and all i did was pressure a newbie who had a bad reaction, i just wanted to push him, and make him post some more. The thread has talked about WBG (which is stupid), Gumshoe's "scumslip" (A common scum tactic to "catch" a townie on) and me/acro What "scumslip" are you talking about? Do you mean gumshoe asking acro to roleclaim? How do you know/why do you think it's only a "scumslip" and not an actually scumslip? Why the quotation marks? Are you saying he was baiting with that statement? At the same time, there were tons of things to talk about. People responding to greymist for one (such as alderan's). On March 22 2012 03:28 Mattchew wrote: over defensive "im a noob" that doesn't want to be be put in the spotlight. look at his reaction compared to the other "noob" guy with a vote on him. its way more aggressive and emotionally angry. But no, instead you try to somehow paint acro as mafia by comparing him to another newbie's play stye and saying "the other newbie isn't acting as defensive, that means since they aren't acting the same way, that acro is scummy!" How does that even make sense? How can you compare two player's play styles and then say see! scummy! -_- | ||
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chaoser
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On March 22 2012 17:12 SamuelLJackson wrote: Do you intend to keep not posting? Any thoughts on Oberyn yet? Risen you've yet to express a single opinion that in any way relates to the game Chaoser I don't like this point you brought up Does the highlighted section in any way have relate to his alignment? Weird and problematic? This reads like something a person who has to force cases would say. Moreover, do you think it's more likely for new scum or new town to make such a ridiculous role claim inquiry? You've posted some content, but it's a bit light in terms of actual accusations; even when you assert mattchew is fake tunnelling, you don't vote for him nor do you call him scum. You say people should be aware of how much we are posting and that you will be "keeping tabs on" gumshoe. Would you be up to lynching Oberyn today? /syllogism There's like 36+ hours left in the day cycle...there's still much discussion left to be had and so I don't see a need to place my vote just yet. I already gave some of my reads so it's pretty evident who I'm suspicious of. I don't use "scum" but it's pretty obvious from my language and posting that I think he's scummy. Would it make you feel better if I used the word scum? I really don't see the difference between my posting about how I find him suspicious and using the word scum. Show, not tell. Would using the "scummy" term instead of weird and problematic make you feel better? I'm pointing out that he chose to ask a newbie to role claim. That's "scummy" because there's a lot more chance that a newbie would ACTUALLY role claim to defend himself. Anyone asking for someone else to a role claim is scummy in my opinion, whether it's a newbie or not; They're going to get scum points on my excel sheet plain and simple. You can try to pass it off as a "newbie mistake" but even then it's too big a mistake to not deserve some kind of scrutiny. To brush over it and to say "this is just a new town, nothing to see here" is ridiculous. I really don't see your point here. It seems like you're being caught up over semantics and criticizing me over word usage when my posts already lay out what I think about people in a straight forward fashion. As for Oberyn, he's posted like two posts. He's also a new player. Right now he's just a lurker and I don't feel any particular need to lynch him if we were lynching right this minute. I am however ok with pressuring. Oberyn, what do you think about acro and gumshoe? What about mattchew? You've also hardly talked or shown who you think is scummy. You stated that Xatalos' use of interesting was sketchy. What do you think about him now? Who are your top three scummy players and why? | ||
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chaoser
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Firstly, it's taking greymist's post about wanting to lynch WBG out of context and misrepresenting it. It also has this paragraph which makes no sense: If you look through his filter here. GreYMist Filter. His continued posts are pretty worthless. He makes a few points like informing how a Mayor system works, shoots down a role-claim. Denying freepasses and punching Mattchews poor logic in the face. Whilst these are alright posts and by that I mean not straight out useless or fluff they aren't doing much to help town either. They are just the kind of replies someone was going to post and GreYMisT posted first. So in terms of "helpfull discussion" aka "lynch discussion" GreY still sits on a pretty solid nothing. Denying freepasses and arguing with mattchew's logic would fall under "helpful and lynch discussions". And greymist advocated lynching gumshoe so he's got a strong stance already and not just "sitting on a pretty solid nothing". And while you're leveling all this criticism at greymist, you yourself have not been doing much either. How is this worthless multiple paragraph post a case? It's just trash. On March 22 2012 09:24 risk.nuke wrote: just to clarify, my original vote for greymist was pressure and I want to lynch him now for other reasons. Where was the pressure?! You literally vote for him and then post one liners about wanting to kill gumshoe. What pressure was there?!?!?! ##vote: risk.nuke Nicholas' big post: I don't understand this post. First you say that risk.nuke has posted the most scummy post (which I agree) but then you say both him and gumshoe are scum buddies? When risk.nuke has been saying gumshoe is scum since the start of the game? You're totally misrepresenting their relationship especially given the fact that in that post, risk.nuke even uses red lettering for gumshoe...Are you saying he's halfheartedly bussing or something? Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion? And then instead of voting for him, you keep your vote on gumshoe...if you think risk.nuke has the most scummy post, why not vote for HIM? and then you ask for a replacement in thread with a shitty reason...I remember Curu modkilled DrH when he did this in lotr and DrH had a much better reason than you...I doubt you're going to get replaced so I suggest you keep playing and respond to my questions. That or you're getting modkilled. Oberyn, I asked you some questions in my previous post, Can you please answer them? And to answer yours, obviously something that I thought was pushing scum agenda. Usually this means misrepresentation. (cough cough, risk.nuke, Nicholas) Right now he's still a null read to me, especially since he's started to contribute/post more. gumshoe, I'm confused. Can you explain why you're voting for layabout and not someone else? Wtf is, "he might be aggressive scum or reckless town but he's dangerous as scum so let's lynch". Why not just go find someone else that you think is more likely to be scum?! Finally, Risen destroyed page 19...please don't do post-by-post analysis anymore, especially if you're going to marathon post like that...condense your ideas into one or two big posts...else it's hard to read | ||
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chaoser
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I still don't see the "greymist wasn't joking". Curu posted that WBG is unlynchable and unkillable. What kind of "confusion" or "useless discussion" is greymist trying to start by making a statement that's obviously so out there that it could be written off as a joke straight up? This just looks like you're doubling down on this "greymist wasn't joking" angle aka misrepresenting. What do you think about nicholas? | ||
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chaoser
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also, my shift is starting so i probably wont be around till after 9 | ||
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On March 25 2012 14:18 Risen wrote: Here's my overwhelming evidence. I'm claiming openly in thread that I checked acro. He is scum. Two possibilties here. I'm lying, I'm scum, lynch me. I'm telling the truth, I'm not scum, lynch acro. Lynching acro obviously is the best option, but even the worst option here is pretty good for town. I'm lynched tonight and acro is lynched tomorrow. I don't think I can make it any simpler than that. I don't know if you're deliberately trying to oversimplify the situation or not but there is definitely NOT only two possibilities here. Your oversimplification of "there are only two possibilities" can be either you being stupid at best or you trying to mislead the town about mechanics at worst. And the reason for that is because this game is different from other games. From Curu's OP: Game Specifics This is a semi-open setup. All possible Town and Mafia roles are listed below. None of these roles are alignment specific (they may be Mafia or Town). Not all of these roles are guaranteed to be in the game but all roles in the game are guaranteed to be from this list. Who gets what role was generated by random.org. I used the first result that popped up, no changes. So truly random . So not only do we not know if you're actually a DT or not since we can't confirm your claim but in this game, we don't even know if a DT is a town role or not. Since the roles were distributed by random generator, it is very possible for there to be mafia DTs. In addition, there are possible millers and framers in this game so basing our lynch today solely on your supposed check is ridiculous. On March 25 2012 15:37 Risen wrote: Mods when I reach majority can we prematurely end the day? Will speed this game up. Asking for day to end early, regardless of situation, is equally ridiculous. Why would we want to lose precious time in which town could be having further discussion? Not to mention the fact that asking mods to "end the day early" on Day 2 is an empty gesture. Mods almost never end cycles early unless its late in the game and a majority of people ask for it. You should know this, you've been playing mafia for a while now if I remember correctly. I'm going to go reread your and acro's posts. There's no need to hurry here, we have 36+ hours left in the day. | ||
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chaoser
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On March 25 2012 22:58 Lyter wrote: I can get behind the part about acro being possibly framed, looking back over day 1 he got a lot of flak for his overly defensive start and I would hazard a guess that he would be pretty high on the priority list for a detective to check out, hence also high for a framer to frame. But a detective should know that too, and hence I don't believe a detective should ever go after someone that was as in the limelight as Acro was because said risk is much greater. Which kinda makes me lean onto Risen being scummy combined with how ridiculously focussed he is on his theory that doesn't actually make much sense at all considering it is no way certain that Acro flips opposite to Risen. this is such shitty logic...you're basically saying since your logic works like this, and someone didn't follow your logic, that they must be scum! On March 25 2012 23:39 Zealos wrote: Just saw this, confirms scum imo. I remember reading in the guide that no good detective would ever roleclaim, and I am willing to follow that logic through. um...what? How does that make sense? DT's roleclaim all the time. How else would they get their info out? | ||
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On March 26 2012 02:44 risk.nuke wrote: risen has been pretty stupid yeah, but he claimed cop so why the hell are you lynching him? cause cop doesn't meant town in this game. | ||
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chaoser
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At the risk of having another one of my mspaint pictures placed into the TL Mafia quiz...this should be all the reasonable permutations of what's currently going on. I left out Risen fake claiming cop as town since that's just too crazy and makes no sense...If i've missed one please left me know. ![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/33lmbkp.png) The first two where risen is townie DT would just be Risen getting too excited about a red check coming back and so he claimed. Blew his load too quickly if you will. In these cases Risen would not be lying but it's also uncertain if acro is mafia or not and acro's flip would tell us very little about Risen's alignment as well since case three and four could be true. If the third one was the case then I'd think it's likely Acro was framed and then Risen "DT checked" him. In that case, Risen doesn't even have to be a real DT. This places a lot of scrutiny on Risen for the rest of the game but would work as a way to move the discussion away from a mafia member that was under pressure. I did this successfully in TL Mafia XLIV The fourth one seems unlikely since it's basically sacrificing one mafia member to possibly buy "town cred" for the other. Risen thought he was under scrutiny and so he sacrifices himself to be lynched so that when he flips mafia, acro can get town cred. Looking at only the permutations, it looks like we should just lynch one and shoot the other to clear up all confusion. There's a 75% chance that we'll kill at least one mafia and 25% we'll lose two townies. But there's also a 25% we can kill two mafia. Once both flip, we should have a clearer picture of what's going on. | ||
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chaoser
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On March 26 2012 03:17 Zealos wrote: You missed out a couple of possibilities. 1. Risen is standard Mafia 2. Risen is standard townie, trying to get out of a lynch (obviously very unlikely) Oh doh! I forgot to include the /normal mafia after the DT mafia part in my picture. but yeah, it works either way. | ||
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chaoser
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On March 26 2012 03:46 Risen wrote: You're an idiot for not claiming miller at this point. Er, I don't know if you know but miller isn't a role. Thus you can't really "claim" miller since you don't know yourself if you are a miller or not. If you really did "check" acro then you shouldn't be able to tell if he's a miller or if he got framed or if he's straight up mafia. The fact that you didn't even mention the notion of him being framed is interesting...why did you go straight to telling him he's an idiot for "not claiming miller"? Aside from Acro, if he was unlynchable today, who do you think is scummy? | ||
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On March 26 2012 04:22 Mattchew wrote: can someone tell me why we would want to take a risk of lynching the guy who claims dt first? for the most part it sounds like people are saying something along the lines of "i wouldn't do that as DT" or "he must be an idiot to do that as DT" or "This way of playing DT doesn't help town" 2 of these say nothing about alignment. playing stupid or different from how you would play it dont mean scum. and there are a ton of examples of townies playing in a not pro-town manner. If we flip acro first and he flips scum or miller, we save the life of a townie and save a lynch. if we flip acro first and he flips town, we get to see what happens to risen at night, and then lynch him. if we flip risen first and he flips scum, we don't learn anything about acro BUT HURRAY WE LYNCH SCUM if we flip risen first and hes town DT, we waste a lynch on a confirmable townie, and acro gets lynched the next day I feel it is a lot safer to lynch acro first Once again, this doesn't take into account the OP. Are you not reading or are you purposefully being ignorant? If acro flips scum or miller, we DON'T KNOW if risen is town or not. So we would not be saving a townie or a lynch. We would still be in WIFOM. | ||
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On March 26 2012 05:03 Risen wrote: Precisely why I'm still thinking this is the best play. It's looking like it will be 10-3 going into night 3, and I'm perfectly fine with that. We lose a dt in the process, but I think with other blues still out there we should be fine. Answer my questions please | ||
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chaoser
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On March 26 2012 06:26 Risen wrote: Was hoping for a rolechecker to look at him. Almost positive isn't the same as positive. This isn't a good excuse even IF rolechecker WAS a role. Why would you take a risk and depend on someone else to do your job? Why not do it yourself? That doesn't even make any sense. That's like saying, I want to check this guy, but oh well, I won't. I'll check this other guy that I already am sure is mafia and hope that 1) someone else checks the guy I want to know about and 2) they then out themselves somehow to give us that information. WTF? ##vote: risen | ||
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chaoser
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Do you think a 1 for 1 trade on day two furthers their agenda? The thing is, we don't know WHAT their plan/intent/agenda is. We don't KNOW if it's a 1 for 1 trade or not. Let's look at it this way. Here's an example of a planned out mafia move (things like this have occurred before) Let's say risen is actually PGO mafia and acro is townie. risen has been getting pressured so he claims to be townie dt and he checked acro. we believe him, lynch acro, he flips town. It is now night and risen can say acro got framed. Now what? Do we believe him? or do we not? There's too much WIFOM and we will probably spend all of the night cycle debating it. Let's say a vigi doesn't believe him and shoots at him. oops, he's PGO so the vigi dies instead. Then we send the next day doing nothing much besides lynching risen. Mafia have just controlled two day cycles and stopped scum hunting and gotten off potentially 6 kills for 1. That's a fucking great plan. So all we can do is make the best play from OUR perspective. And if you look at risen's reaction to the pressure as the day has drawn on, it's gotten more and more scummy. His post about the how he figured another rolechecker would check mattchew and that's why he checked acro is ridiculous. | ||
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On March 27 2012 00:48 Oberyn wrote: Do you intented to actually provide other stuff to talk about or only pretend to generate discussion? Risen, why didn't you include a name in your initial role claim? Disappearing isn't helping your case. Xatalos, to be clear are you voting for Risen because you think he is scum or because there are 8+ votes on him? What is your excuse for not posting ON? I don't see how a town player can go 72 hours without providing their opinion. I generated discussion all of yesterday. where the hell were you? oh right, you were being wishy washy on your thoughts on risen. | ||
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chaoser
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On March 27 2012 01:32 risk.nuke wrote: Chaoser what do you think of OriginalName. I haven't played with him but I'm sort of expecting more from him? he's sucking it up. big time. his big post on gumshoe could have been summed up by it's opening sentence of I just dont get this dude, half the things he says seem to just scream posting for the sake of posting with huge paragraphs filled with nothingness and then maybe one example for support. Instead it criticizes gumshoe in a "i'm criticizing you but not really" kind way. It feels like a whole lot of empty gas basically. All show, no bite. Which sums the rest of his posting as well. In particular is this post: On March 23 2012 10:39 OriginalName wrote: I'm voting SLJ For the following reasons I believe them to be scum. -There's two of them and they are both lurking hardcore there is no excuse for this behaviour -Not contributing any opinions before flaunting vet status and starting questionable bandwagon that everyone is jumping on. -Pushing agenda through above method -Doing nothing to contribute to atmosphere and using horrid paragraph/other crappie that neither usually ignore and makes it seem that they really don't care -Throwing votes down without reason The cases on layabout are fairly meh nothing of his outright rises suspicion other then his questionable alt targets. Alderan is increadably trashy as well with that clear bandwagon jump how do people get away with this. #Vote SLJ which is funny because ON fits most of those criteria as well, especially with the vote finally ending on evantree. He's on my shortlist for mafia. | ||
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chaoser
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On March 27 2012 01:45 Oberyn wrote: I'd hardly call your little chart of possibilities much of a contribution. The only other thing you've provided is misrepresenting a 1:1 trade for a 6:1 trade. The night hits are going to resolve whether we lynch a scum player or not. You come up with this conspiracy PGO theory, but that honestly can't be the explanation you think is most likely. worst case scenario, a mafia risen gets lynched day two best case scenario, mafia gets a single mislynch and limits discussion and a mafia risen gets lynched day three I don't understand how you call this a great plan. limiting discussion in the opening days is huge. because not only is discussion limited but it also allows mafia two free nights to kill off the best players. your "best case scenario" is a lot worse for us than you're making it out to be. And I didn't say that explanation was the most likely; I stated it because you tried to imply it was "just" a 1:1 trade when we have no knowledge that leads us to successfully come to this conclusion since WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MAFIA ARE THINKING! Just look at LoTR with the neutral balrog claim that came out of nowhere and then kita's tracker claim on me. It took town almost two extra days to finally decide to lynch iGrok and all the way till the end of the game to decide kita was mafia cause they thought "mafia wouldn't do that". If you had to lynch three people right now, who would they be? Out of acro and risen, who would you lynch? | ||
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why only maybe gumshoe? also, you're just going to ignore risen/acro? leave that for another day? | ||
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On March 27 2012 07:15 evantrees wrote: ##vote: acrofales On March 27 2012 07:20 Lyter wrote: ##vote: Risen What's with the silent voting guys? Not even posting in thread? | ||
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On March 28 2012 09:29 Alderan wrote: Ok, there's probably a lot to work with here and I'll start with what immediately comes to mind. Day 2's kills were "hacked to pieces". We're going to have to assume for the time being that these are the two mafia kill flavors. Tonight we have a "run through" and a "hacked to pieces" which would suggest that one was a vig kill and one was a mafia kill, with some type of vet hit or medic save. What's bothering me is the fact that MrZentor's flavor was "hacked to pieces" as well. I guess it's not absurd to have a vig with the same flavor as scum, but I just didn't expect it. Anyone have any experience with a game where scum had a choice as to which kill flavor they used, or anything like that? Um...what? What are you talking about? On March 28 2012 08:35 Alderan wrote: Just was gonna see if you were interested in maybe posting that case? On March 28 2012 08:43 MrZentor wrote: I don't need a case with my role. On March 28 2012 08:50 MrZentor wrote: As soon as we're done with this Acrofales/Risen thing, you're dead. It's pretty clear that YOU were the target MrZentor was going to shoot. And he breadcrumbed that pretty early. ##vote: acrofalas | ||
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On March 28 2012 21:56 Mattchew wrote: Hi, I am the jailer, (Lysa Arryn). I jailed SLJ night 1 (he was hit twice) and I jailed alderan night 2. Any questions? So are you saying there's 4 KP flying around day 1 (SLJ said he was viging evantree, two KP landed on SLJ and one landed on DoYouHas) and only 3 KP was flying around yesterday (MrZentor breadcrumbed he was shoot alderan, MrZentor got shot, Oberyn got shot)? | ||
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On March 28 2012 22:07 Mattchew wrote: I roleblocked SLJ, so thats why he didn't shoot, and thats why i said scum has 1 or 2 vigs. cause I knew there was atleast 3 KP used on night 1 Oh right, you would have roleblocked him. | ||
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On March 28 2012 22:14 Acrofales wrote: I don't think KP matter at all. He visited MrZentor last night, who was found hacked to bits today. If his bullshit about SLJ is even a little bit true, he roleblocked SLJ, preventing the Evantrees hit and shot him. Lol, shut up acro. you're already settled for the day. Your PM post pretty much means you're going either going to be modkilled because that's your actual role PM you just posted or you won't be modkilled because you're lying and the technicality of "it's not a real PM you got from Curu" comes into play. And that second one means you're mafia. So really, it's win-win for town that you posted it lol. Though not so much win-win for you since if it's the first one, you're going to probably end up on the ban list. Now we just wait for Curu. | ||
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On March 28 2012 22:17 Mattchew wrote: if you are telling the truth about what you received this is a mod-mistake. Originally I was on Mr. Zentor until about 2-3 hours before the night actions occured because of his obvious breadcrumb of his blue rule with the 0101010101 shit. I switched to alderan then because he became more town in my mind and started posting actual information. I was in class from 23:00 GMT (+00:00) to 02:00 GMT (+00:00) when mr zentor started blue claiming and it was too late to switch back to him you need to stop talking dude | ||
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On March 29 2012 16:15 risk.nuke wrote: Chaoser, your filter is completely useless. What do you want and expect me to make out of that? On March 29 2012 15:59 risk.nuke wrote: It sounds as if you think YOUR filter is better this his. How is my filter useless? What a completely useless statement by you. No reasoning, a rhetorical question, stupid. Here, I'll give it right back at you "your filter is completely useless. What do you want and expect me to make out of that, scum? (see there? I actually made a real accusation, gasp) | ||
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chaoser
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On March 29 2012 23:22 Mattchew wrote: Unless chaoser is the boldest scum ever (pressure voting a 1st game teammate 11 posts into the game) I think you are both town. Chaoser care to share with us any reads or something useful? I was going to post my current reads right before night ended | ||
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chaoser
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For my first read, it's risk.nuke. He talks about how everyone else is bad at playing this game or hasn't contributed much but he himself has only really pushed for one person and that person is greymist. I already wrote about him on day one trying to misrepresent greymist and if one reads over his posts, you can see that he pretty much only says stuff about greymist and not much about anyone else. He says my filter is "useless" and I focused too much on risen and acro but if you look at HIS filter you can see that HE only focuses on greymist. He also weighs in a decent amount on the risen/acro issue, voting for acro when it was pretty clear at that point that it wouldn't have mattered. So really, his focus has just been greymist and acro/risen and I don't have much of a read on any of his other thoughts. On March 27 2012 02:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Day 2 Vote Count Risen (9) - wherebugsgo, GreYMisT, Alderan, Acrofales, Xatalos, MrZentor, Zealos, chaoser, Mattchew Acrofales (1) - Risen Evantrees (1) - Sinesis On March 27 2012 05:13 risk.nuke wrote: ##vote: acrofales I consider him my top scum target. SEcondly, due to the fact that acro was lynched and flipped mafia, we can actually learn a lot from reading his posts about other players. In particular is zealos. If you read over acro's posts throughout the game, as well as zealos' posts, you'll see a dramatic change between their opinions of each other. At the start of the game, they go at each other a lot, though in thoroughly wishy washy ways. The most that comes out of their arguments is that zealos is a lurker and acro is a newbie. Both are weak arguments that they probably thought no one would really bit on. But once the Risen thing occurs, this happens: On March 27 2012 02:08 Zealos wrote: I don't know if I've missed something, but I'm not sure why acro is under doubt? On March 28 2012 06:45 Acrofales wrote: Trolololol. THAT is your idea of a detailed case on your scum list? You call out me, based ONLY on the red check. Xatalos, who you've been harping on all game. You may be right, I don't like his posting style either, but are wordiness and careful phrasing really scum tells? Zealos is one of my clearest town reads. Evantrees and Lyter are lurkers and therefore high on almost everybody's scumlist. Why are you covering for the king lurker of them all? Is Gumshoe your scumbuddy? I judge your cases severely lacking in content, as it should be if posted by a mobster. But hell, it looks like I'll be dead tomorrow and you can keep manipulating this town. They suddenly back off each other at around the same time relatively and do a complete 360 degree change in readings. On March 26 2012 04:30 Zealos wrote: What if acro is the real DT and he is playing it well by not claiming? Given that we now know that Acro was setting up for a fake blue claim (that he hilariously messed up), this seems to be part of their plan of setting up for that claim. Read over the day 2/night 2 filters of both of them and compare to day 1 and it's hialrious the difference. While this line of happening by itself doesn't mean much, adding in mattchew's case on him, it becomes pretty obvious that he is scum. His scummy posting+his interactions with acro makes him my second top scum read. For the last scum, I'm actually undecided between lyter and gumshoe. I've been suspicious of gumshoe ever since he posted this in regards to asking acro to "blueclaim": On March 23 2012 07:40 gumshoe wrote: Hey guys, sorry i haven't checked in yet been busy with school(finals next week) anyways in regard to the blue thing, I did it because in my last game jackal was about to be lynched when he revealed the name of his character, thats what ended up setting us back on track. So I thought a similar thing could help Acro, I was also looking to see if he'd name the role and not the character, which would be a dead giveaway. It was a dumb plan, and I'm sorry but I still think acro is scum, what I especialy liked was how he pretty much assumed I was scum for accusing him and flipped out, I think he was trying to deflect the susiciun on him onto me, but hounestley its my own fault for letting him. If anyone has any more specific questions for me I should be reachable now he says he asked acro to role claim because he thought it would "help" him like it did with jackal in a previous game where it got the town back on track. But then he says he thinks acro is mafia? That makes no sense because Why would he help someone he thought was mafia? And even though he straight up says "I still think acro is scum", he decides to only FoS him and votes layabout instead. Off the really bad reasoning of "he might be aggressive scum or reckless town but he's dangerous as scum so let's lynch". why not just go find someone else that he thought is more likely to be scum? Like acro. At the same time though, he did not vote day 2 and has not posted since. I don't think a mafia member would risk a mod kill like that which is why I am undecided between him and lyter. Lyter, in a similar vein, has referenced acro a lot and defended him while being completely worthless, which is what seperates him from evantree. In particular, he posted this: On March 25 2012 22:58 Lyter wrote: I can get behind the part about acro being possibly framed, looking back over day 1 he got a lot of flak for his overly defensive start and I would hazard a guess that he would be pretty high on the priority list for a detective to check out, hence also high for a framer to frame. But a detective should know that too, and hence I don't believe a detective should ever go after someone that was as in the limelight as Acro was because said risk is much greater. Which kinda makes me lean onto Risen being scummy combined with how ridiculously focussed he is on his theory that doesn't actually make much sense at all considering it is no way certain that Acro flips opposite to Risen. that he later backs off here in his "i'm contributing!" but not really post: On March 27 2012 09:20 Lyter wrote: Alright my reasoning for voting Risen isn't particularly mindblowing, I don't think there's much that hasn't already been said about him. I think a lynch on him is just plain sensible at this point. If he is lynched, and flips town, then he will be DT because there is no reason to claim it and then be something else, that is just anti-town. So of course the other option is he flips mafia, and hurrah you killed a scum. If he flips DT like his claim, then no doubt he has checked Acro, the only issue is whether something else occurred that night like a framing which at least provides a slight positive in that you know there is some manipulative role out there. I think him creating a heck of a lot of spam taking up practically all of day 2's discussion is a pretty scummy move, would it not be wiser as a DT to just take note that you checked someone and they came up scum and maybe use that at a later more critical time? Part of me thinks it would be smarter to lynch acro then get risen day 3 if acro flips town, but that is only the case if we don't give any value to way Risen has acted over day 2 and just say its 50/50. But I think in this case he's been so destructive to progress that he kinda has to go before acro because it makes he comes across much shadier, trying to divert town attention away from something else that we may have have missed from the events of day/night 1. As a footnote, I am still suspicious of ON but given that he's been replaced by Jitsu, I am willing to give him another cycle (since this one was cut short) to reevaluate. | ||
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On March 31 2012 06:41 Jitsu wrote: Zealos, can you link me to your case against GreYMisT? You seem to be tunneling him fairly hard and want him dead, yet the only case I've seen in your filter is directed to Risen. Care to share your thoughts on why GreyMist should be dying tonight? Also, what do you think of my case on Xatalos? He doesn't have a case against him. This is the last mention of greymist from him before Mattchew and risk.nuke posted their suspicions on greymist. He thinks grey is townish. On March 22 2012 23:13 Zealos wrote: Simply put: If you had to kill one person now, who would it be (Other than lurkers) The reason on the sudden flip about Grey was me being overeager to have an opinion, and not consider the fact it may well be a joke. As for the copy of opinions already voiced, for me personally, if I agree with someone, I would rather elaborate on what they have said, rather than I simpler QFT or such. Though I'm not sure where I defended gumshoe? All of a sudden he changes to: On March 29 2012 17:21 Zealos wrote: I think with Mattchew still playing and trying to lead the town on with his terrible leads is gonna lead to a mafia win, that being said, he clearly isn't scum. I wanna hear more from Greymist ##vote Greymist in which he says he wants to hear more from greymist but this soon turns into straight up tunneling of greymist on the bullshit reasoning of: On March 29 2012 17:43 Zealos wrote: Lol, night time, derp. Though after reading over Grey's filter it does seem "Convineint" that whenever the town gets a false lead such as risen, he becomes quiet and leaves us to lynch him, no words for or agaisnt. I'm ok with lynching either risk or zealos but i'd rather lynch the former. | ||
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On April 01 2012 02:53 Kohbee wrote: Also, if you can point out examples of Zealos doing Please point out some examples, risk.nuke | ||
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On April 01 2012 02:40 risk.nuke wrote: I'm exhausted. 8 hour examas does that. So basicly the Zealous lynch is bad, 1. Zealous is one of the few more active people. 2. He's done some few bad stuff but he's also done some good stuff which is completely ignored which I just find curious. You've still yet to show that was the "good stuff" he did dude. | ||
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you're all idiots. | ||
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On April 01 2012 20:47 Zealos wrote: Sorry, didn't get a chance to check over the thread before the lynch. Won't get a chance to have a proper look over the thread till tonight, but I'll try to post something useful then. On April 02 2012 03:12 Zealos wrote: I hope I don't seem scummy saying this, but, I have no real idea's. So far my reads have been pretty bad, and I'm struggling to think of anything. If anyone has idea's I'd be up for discussing ect. nothing "useful" yet lol. ##vote risk.nuke BTW, we're at LYLO. It's 5 v 3 right now. If WBG is voting with scum, we CAN'T afford to make a mistake. It's pretty clear zealos is mafia due to his...everything. Mattchew posted a great post on him and I have a post on him as well. Risk.nuke has been misrepresenting people all game and has yet to shown zealos posting "good useful things", diverting the lynch onto greymist. I'm ok with a lynch on either. gumshoe is probably the last mafia I think. | ||
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On April 02 2012 11:31 Zealos wrote: Yes, like I said, I don't know. I'm not experience enough to make good enough reads. I could write a massive paragraph of nothing, or try to see other people's thoughts and vote based off of that. It's fucking day 5, not day 1. That excuse no longer works. Whatever, no use arguing with mafia. | ||
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On April 03 2012 21:05 Zealos wrote: I'm not siding with WBG, I'm siding with the 2 people who were killed last night after calling out Xata for being mafia. wifom is the best you can do? and looking over jitsu's filter, he had a comment about how matt wasn't going to die, basically softclaiming a protection role. the fact of that matter is, we have no real way of knowing why someone was killed. mattchew was killed the previous day while being all over you and ready to push for your lynch. Using your logic, you are mafia. but that is not how this game is played. it's played by looking over all posts over the entire game. for example, we know that risk.nuke defended you with a non-defense: "zealos has done some bad things but also some good things" and then he never backed it up even though he was in thread. he also tunneled greymist all game, doing very little else and then claims other people weren't "contributing". At the same time he's misrepresented greymist over and over again; this has been pointed out multiple times. everyone needs to get in and vote soon, it's lylo and mafia can sway a vote very easily, people vote for risk.nuke as he has been the scummiest. | ||
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that I must bow so low? Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know. In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws, And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours. And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere, But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear. Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall, and not a soul to hear | ||
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On April 05 2012 12:00 Mattchew wrote: my only 2 reads on day 1 were right. I am just a pussy and didn't push them TT... How the fuck did xatalos survive It was actually pretty simple. Cause town was preoccupied with other shit. Risen and Acro tied up day 2 and 3. And then risk.nuke pushed for greymist finally on day 4. I counter pushed on risk.nuke really hard while defending greymist all game. I'm sure a lot of townies figured a lynch on greymist would be very telling of alignment in the thread. We were actually hoping for a greymist lynch since it would put A LOT of pressure on risk.nuke the next day. And it was a decent lynch so they went for it. Afterwards obviously risk.nuke looked scummy as fuck and so it was easy to push a lynch on him. Xatalos probably WOULD have gotten lynched had bigger things not come up. Bad play from Risen claiming DT early, risk.nuke tunneling the fuck out of greymist + his horrible defense on zealos, and zealos playing really scummy won us the game | ||
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On April 05 2012 12:09 GreYMisT wrote: I though WBG had the biggest Tunnel goggles i had ever seen. Clearly I need to reevaluate my stance on that. why would you even worry about WBG? lol. I didn't reply to a single thing of his all game and just ignored him. A nonkillable/nonlynchable player shouldn't be given any thought. He's just a stump third party. | ||
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chaoser 04-03-2012 02:35 PM ET (US) lol, risk has given up. we've pretty much locked up the win. I will proclaim an early MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/1030-02.jpg Hopefully history does not repeat itself and we end up being stuck in a prolonged and complicated military situation. My mission accomplished bad luck almost came true lol | ||
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On April 05 2012 12:18 kitaman27 wrote: Strong day one from Xatalos by the way, I don't think I considered you at any point. lolol...I am pretty sure our team maxed the fuck out of our "newbie card" lol | ||
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Xatalos 03-27-2012 04:18 PM ET (US) New information! Curu told me that a Vigilante can only shoot once per game, so for all intents and purposes, we no longer have to care about being killed outside of a lynch. We don't need to tell town that, but it makes our lives easier. Acrofales is quaranteed to live past this night, for example. Good job to my team! Newbies ftw~ | ||
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YEAH! LOLOL. I was like oh god...any other vets in the game and they would have called that out straight up for a lynch lol I mean, look at the end vote for day 1 On March 24 2012 04:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Day 1 Vote Count Acrofales (1) - GreYMisT (2) - risk.nuke, gumshoe (2) - Mattchew (3) - Acrofales, OriginalName (0) - Nicolas (0) - DoYouHas (1) - wherebugsgo Oberyn (2) - layabout (3) - SamuelLJackson, gumshoe, Alderan Alderan (2) - DoYouHas, layabout risk.nuke (1) - chaoser SamuelLJackson (1) - OriginalName evantrees (1) - Mattchew e: derp. Please direct all discrepancies to the author's PM box in the future. Thx! | ||
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On April 05 2012 12:34 Mattchew wrote: chaoser the vote on acro was genius and yet it almost killed him day 1. lol, i knew he wouldn't be lynched. I had trust in our newbie card powers. Plus it was easy to deflect any suspicions on him on to the people voting for him by saying they are trying to make a case out of nothing. oh, what's the observer QT pleaseee | ||
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On April 05 2012 13:10 Risen wrote: I was under the same impression as you. I now know town doesn't act logically. Whatevs, bad play from me to claim in response to wbg saying he was shooting me. Live and learn. You played horribly. The only reason you were lynched was because of your horrible play. Town acted logically given the information it had, both of you needed to be lynched, regardless of the alignment of the other. You could have been mafia bussing, who knows? Don't claim DT unless it's 100% needed like endgame or you have 2+ mafia checked. | ||
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On April 05 2012 13:29 DoYouHas wrote: It was definitely not a good time to claim. But once it was out there, how to deal with it should have been plain, and it wasn't lynching Risen before Acro. Risen was being scummy as fuck. Lynch the person who is scummier obviously. Mafia can claim DT any day of the week if they thought they were sure to be lynched the next day and say someone else was checked to be mafia. The correct play is thus not to "lynch DT's check first and then DT" but rather "Lynch who you think is scummier." Risen was super scummy with his shitty reasoning, bad claim, and his logic (I am sure Acro is mafia, I'll ask someone to please check grey even though I am DT) | ||
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On April 06 2012 05:51 VisceraEyes wrote: What I mean is by extra-voting when you did, you revealed yourself to the scum team. Their kill choices changed several times on the last night, but you were a constant because you were outed (by the final vote-count) as the double-voter. Up to that point, scum still didn't know what the final blue was (or if it existed). If you hadn't used your vote the last day there, they still wouldn't be sure (a PGO for example would kill them if they targeted you, reducing their number and giving town another lylo, so they might not have risked shooting you). Using it when you did, they knew that town's path to victory was through a double-voter, and that you were it. I mean, I understand using it...but you outed yourself by keeping it on dude when it was only you and Bugs voting him, and they pretty much know that Bugs can't double-vote  .nah VE, I was going to shoot him regardless of if the vote thing was weird or not. | ||
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