As a veteran, my case wasn't weak for 2 hours into the game. As the game went on, and more people posted and more things happened, it became weak.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

March 20 2012 02:29 GMT

#583

Ok, just clarifying. I do not believe you are scum, just wanted to get that sorted out.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

March 20 2012 02:30 GMT

#584

What do you think about Nemesis' case on me, removing the Jackal wagon and its implications Sir Johnny?

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

March 20 2012 02:33 GMT

#585

it's weak. out-dated facts and tunnel vision lynching. he wants you lynched and doesn't consider anyone else...

not sure if scum or OMGUS

Nemesis

Canada2568 Posts

March 20 2012 02:35 GMT

#586

Yes it is possible. Jackal seems to actually be having some internet trouble. It wouldn't be farfetched that they would bus him to gain some town credit instead of having a teammate that is never around.

On March 20 2012 11:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's cool that you're ignoring the obvious so that your conclusion remains the same. How about an easier conclusion to come to, that doesn't revolve around me being so worried about your pressure that I have to somehow change how I'm playing: that I realized that my case on johnnywup was weak (it was) and I decided to look for another target (I did) because I want to kill scum (I do).

Eh? Yeah? No? It's cool, your case is weak enough without me debunking it or discrediting you - and I'm going to die, so you'll only have to explain yourself to everyone else tomorrow. But yeah, thanks. That's what I was looking for.

Even though you unvoted jonny, you still thought that he was scum at that point. If you really thought he was scum, you should've still pushed for his lynch. But you didn't which suggests that you weren't really buying into your own case from the very beginning.

Anyways, no point arguing with you, not like you will suddenly come out and admit you are scum.

At no point in the game was your case strong at all LOL. It doesn't matter what point of the game it is, a weak case is a weak case.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

March 20 2012 02:39 GMT

#587

Oh my, Nemesis trying to get a rise out of me. Good luck with that sir.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

March 20 2012 02:41 GMT

#588

Also, my town play is not irrational. Sometimes it's sane, but I almost always listen to reason. Almost.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

March 20 2012 02:41 GMT

#589

EBWOP:
sane = insane

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

March 20 2012 02:44 GMT

#590

while i was on the receiving end of the votelynch at the beginning, i can see the merit in trying to get a reaction from newer players. I'm not holding that against VE.

Nemesis

Canada2568 Posts

March 20 2012 02:45 GMT

#591

I never said your town play is irrational, I said your scum play was.

Anyways, I'm out for now, time to sleep.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

March 20 2012 02:51 GMT

#592

My scum play is badass - if I were scum you wouldn't have any idea Nemesis.

But you're wrong STILL because my scum play is in NO WAY irrational. Maybe you can share a few links? Maybe you can say what games you're referring to when you say my scum game is "irrational"? Maybe you're just talking out of your ass because you've never played any games with me ever?

Who knows. I don't. I also don't care. If I'm alive tomorrow and you want to waste your vote AGAIN, town will punish you for it...providing they don't punish you for wasting your vote yesterday. It'd be much easier if you just accept the fact that you could be wrong (you are) and keep looking. EVEN IF YOU'RE RIGHT, I'm not going to be the only scum left. Look elsewhere. I promise you're wasting your time. Pinky swear, bro. m/

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

March 20 2012 02:54 GMT

#593

I realize that VE bussing jackal would be very silly if he was scum, but some things about his play bothered me a lot. Number 1 is saying that "Confirmed town" stuff on his first post, which could be a setup for a mason claim later in the game had no one claimed mason (since there is no guarantee at mason role, but 4 masons would be unlikely).
2) Is calling jackal town very early which actually combined with number one is what made me look hard into jackal for real.
3) Is pressuring players I had a town read on.
4) Was spreading doubt on my claim, when I had 99% chance of being town at that point and later insisting on voting snarfs.
5) Was voting for jackal, then immediately commenting on how fast the wagon was going, which was silly after he decided himself jackal was his lynch of choice and might have made players change their vote on jackal. Really what's the point of that comment right after you decide to vote jackal?

Now VE did vote for jackal and the lynch was 7 out of 7 so I wouldn't push a VE lynch tomorrow with no scum check on him as that would be silly. Anyone not jc that didn't vote jackal is also a nice check and possibly better then VE, but I'd like to have him checked at some point.

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

March 20 2012 02:56 GMT

#594

Number 3 refers to jonny and tobon early on in the game.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

March 20 2012 03:02 GMT

#595

1) The "confirmed town" bit was because he came into the thread super-aggressive. If you were around for that post, would that not have immediately given you a town read on Jackal?
2) See 1. I had a town read on him because of the level of aggressiveness. Go look at his first post in his scum games Sandroba.
3) I made a judgement call on jdub, and TO THIS MOMENT I feel like it was the right thing to do. I don't regret making the case on johnny, first of all it generated good discussion about what should/shouldn't be considered scummy and it ultimately gave me a certain level of thread-presence which has carried me all the way here.
4) I wouldn't say "spreading doubt" on your claim is entirely accurate or fair...you came in here saying you're "confirmed town"...but you're NOT Sandroba. In exactly the same way that Jackal wasn't confirmed town when I called him confirmed town, you're not confirmed town when you say you're confirmed town. Yes, it's VERY unlikely that scum would gambit claiming Masons, and I at no point thought that's what was happening...but if I'm being held to a standard, shouldn't you as well?
5) I was asking YOU about the wagon Sand, I wanted your opinion on the speed of it. It scared me how fast Jackal got run up the pole, and if that didn't worry you then I've got a whole different beef with you.

Anything else I can clarify Sand?

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

March 20 2012 03:06 GMT

#596

Sand+Jcarl

lets say they are scum.. it's basically suicide for both of them if one is scum...which is why we won't DT, because we both know that. So could it be possible theyre scum pulling our strings because they know we wont DT them?

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

March 20 2012 03:07 GMT

#597

EBWOP: I'm inclined to say no they're not scum because jackal was a lynch candidate from sandroba from the start.

Snarfs

Canada1006 Posts

March 20 2012 03:10 GMT

#598

Well, I think it's highly unlikely if you appreciate the fact that they had no idea if other masons were out there or not. If sandroba had waited until say, day 2, to claim mason, then that hurts their claim.

Also, sandroba led the lynch on Jackal iirc.

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

March 20 2012 03:10 GMT

#599

Number 1 I was actually referring to the bit you called yourself "basically confirmed town", which seemed to me like a breadcrumb about being mason. And no, jackal makes that kind of posts regardless.
Also you did not explain why you thought that keeping your vote on snarfs was a good idea after he claimed. And no just because you think something is possible doesn't mean you have to say it, unless you think it is likely or adds some value to the discussion. You seemed quite eager to call jackal town based on much more meager evidence, so I'm quite surprised I got the opposite treatment when I claimed.
And to answer 5 it's pretty obvious the wagon was fast because people were sheeping whatever I was saying at that point, just like it happened with snarfs.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

March 20 2012 03:11 GMT

#600

The thing that makes it the most unlikely is this: if one of them flips (via vig or DT check or lynch or WHATEVER) then the other is instantly implicated. Instantly. Because in order for it to work, they BOTH have to be scum...or whichever one isn't scum could be all 'Uhh...no, that's a lie' right? So either they're both masons (because they've confirmed in-thread) or they're both scum. And in a setup where DTs AND vigs are a possibility, it would have to be some effing ballsy scum to pull a gambit like that.

That's what Sandroba meant by "confirmed town"...but regardless of the probability of it, it's still POSSIBLE, so he's actually not strictly speaking "confirmed".