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On March 21 2012 22:23 slOosh wrote:
As for who I would start discussion about it would be Probulous.
For someone who has closely watched my posting in my newbie games, it doesn't make sense that he would use raw meta to "set the tone" - he knows the failure that was my SNMMVII game (where I was VT) and yet still assumes that meta is viable, as if I didn't want to improve my play.
Everyone wants to improve and I know you are changing your style. The point is the only evidence we have on your meta is your newbie games so to dismiss it as "it was a newbie game" is stupid. Anyway that isn't the meat of the case.
He gives off lurking vibes, especially so since I've seen his scumhunting / discussion driving nature. The only thing he has talked about after D1 is me - I'd think he would move on to find the "last scum" as there isn't any serious opposition to my lynch.
You are scum my friend. Nothing you have done since then makes me think otherwise. As for finding the last scum, I find them one at a time. We still have a whole day before the night and then another two days before the next lynch. There is still plenty of time to find your buddy/s.
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On March 22 2012 02:05 sandroba wrote:
SlOosh is behaving like townie right now and probulous doesn't seem to care too much about this game. I heard from someone that he is normally very good and very active. Day1 he spent the whole day bickering about your unvote on johnny and going around in circles. Also no one (besides you) really tried to keep votes away from jackal and probulous was mia at that time. His argument about slOosh trying to distance himself from jackal with that post right before the lynch does not make sense, because that post actually accomplishes the opposite.
You seem to be forgetting I am on the other side of the world. I am here and posting but everyone else is in the middle of the night. So when I log on in the morning there are pages of stuff to read just before the deadline. Normally the deadlines are later so people are on later and I can push and drive discussion.
You call it bickering, I call it putting VE in his place. He could well be scum, his vote to seal the Jackal lynch is what "confirms" him. He knew his case was shit yet he was actively pushing for the lynch. I even asked him if he intended to lynch Johnny and he made it clear that he did. Then he says he knew he case was weak. Are you telling me that discussion was useless?
The thing that made him town in my mind was his Jackal vote. He could have pulled a Sloosh and said he wasn't sure, hell he thought he was town for most of the first day, but he hammered Jackal and for that he gets a town read.
I explained why I was MIA. That post of Sloosh puts us in a WIFOM situation. Did he do it because he wanted town to reason he wouldn't do it as scum? I think VE's point about how it contradicts his earlier positioning on you is a great point that I missed. I also think it highly unreasonable that anyone would doubt a mason claim from you on day 1. It is way way way too risky a scum move and to assume otherwise is a huge logical fail. I just don't see Sloosh actually believing you could be scum.
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On March 22 2012 06:41 slOosh wrote:
Upon rereading the thread, ALL his activity D1 centered around a defense of johnnywub. All of it. There is no indication of desire to scumhunt. He acknowledges that he had suspicions on me due to my interactions with xsksc but did not push his case, nor did he even ask any probing questions to get a better read. Even when he moves his vote to Tobon after he has his scuffle with VE, he doesn't pursue a stronger read.
Conclusion: I think that he chose an easy way to look active by defending a townie (notably after Sandroba gives his johnny is town read - contrast to Nemesis who defended him from a poor case before anyone gave such reads). Blending in and not doing anything useful ( I expressed how I think his case on me had holes in them)
For God's sake people I am always going to be catching up because of when the game starts. Of course others are going to be saying stuff before me, I can't help that.
As for Day 1. VE was getting a very very easy ride. I don't why people assumed he was town just because he was active. I pushed him about his weak case because I thought he was scum then when he responded openly and confirmed he thought the case was weak and that was why he unvoted my case didn't make sense anymore. So I looked elsewhere, Sloosh I know you tunnel, so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I did go scumhunting, I found Tobon who was saying crazy stuff that made no sense. I pushed him and he responded with a passive aggressive dismissal. So I kept my vote there.
At this point on Day 1 my scum reads were VE and Tobon but the VE case didn't make sense anymore. It was more of a gut thing than anything else so I left my vote on Tobon. Then I get called into a meeting before the deadline so I can't re-evaluate what has happened overnight.
VE's hammer on Jackal confirmed him in my eyes so I had to look elsewhere. Tobon has been more active and looks better. With my knowledge that VE was town I went back and looked at those siding with me on the Jonny debate. I took a closer look at your case against xksc and it made no sense. Then I looked at your behaviour since then and it made you scum. I posted what I could on my lunch break.
I know the timing isn't great but you have to realise that I have contributed when I can. This whole thing about me not contributing is just plain wrong. I was the one that pushed the case on theyou. XKSC put his suspicions out there but I drove this case. I pushed VE on Day 1 and I pushed Tobon.
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On March 22 2012 07:24 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:18 Probulous wrote:On March 22 2012 02:05 sandroba wrote:
SlOosh is behaving like townie right now and probulous doesn't seem to care too much about this game. I heard from someone that he is normally very good and very active. Day1 he spent the whole day bickering about your unvote on johnny and going around in circles. Also no one (besides you) really tried to keep votes away from jackal and probulous was mia at that time. His argument about slOosh trying to distance himself from jackal with that post right before the lynch does not make sense, because that post actually accomplishes the opposite. You seem to be forgetting I am on the other side of the world. I am here and posting but everyone else is in the middle of the night. So when I log on in the morning there are pages of stuff to read just before the deadline. Normally the deadlines are later so people are on later and I can push and drive discussion. You call it bickering, I call it putting VE in his place. He could well be scum, his vote to seal the Jackal lynch is what "confirms" him. He knew his case was shit yet he was actively pushing for the lynch. I even asked him if he intended to lynch Johnny and he made it clear that he did. Then he says he knew he case was weak. Are you telling me that discussion was useless? The thing that made him town in my mind was his Jackal vote. He could have pulled a Sloosh and said he wasn't sure, hell he thought he was town for most of the first day, but he hammered Jackal and for that he gets a town read. I explained why I was MIA. That post of Sloosh puts us in a WIFOM situation. Did he do it because he wanted town to reason he wouldn't do it as scum? I think VE's point about how it contradicts his earlier positioning on you is a great point that I missed. I also think it highly unreasonable that anyone would doubt a mason claim from you on day 1. It is way way way too risky a scum move and to assume otherwise is a huge logical fail. I just don't see Sloosh actually believing you could be scum. So what's the deal? Do you think slOosh is scum? This is a long post, and all I really get from it is you trying to discredit me in one paragraph and agreeing with me in another. I can't tell what you think of slOosh from this post. What's the point of this post?
Sloosh is scum.
Gah! I am not discrediting you, I am explaining my actions because you guys seem to think I am mafia. Yes I thought you were scum on Day 1 but your vote makes you town now. I am responding to people individually, which in hindsight may not be the best way to do this.
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On March 22 2012 07:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also, I'm going to be playing the part of the wall you have to bang your head against today Probulous...good luck sir.
Alright wall, what do you want to know?
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On March 22 2012 07:35 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:30 Probulous wrote:
VE's hammer on Jackal confirmed him in my eyes so I had to look elsewhere.
I know you keep using this word and I'm verifying that by 'hammer' you do indeed mean '2nd to last vote'?
Yes, that is what I mean. He could easily have not voted for Jackal and stuck with his initial read if he was scum.
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On March 22 2012 07:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous I'm over here bro! You realize that you're defending yourself to the person you're saying we should all lynch right guy?!
Yes, and?
You seem to be taking his case seriously so I was addressing it.
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On March 22 2012 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous:
Why am I "confirmed town" for my vote on Jackal?
Why was I not scummy for defending Jackal (as sandroba seems to think) after Jackal flipped scum? Your attention was on me for the majority of the day, surely it didn't just escape your notice that I called him 'confirmed town' and was defending him for a fair portion of the day...
Re: responding to slOosh's case - if you're town and think that slOosh is scum, you'd be interested in clearing your name with townies, not scum. Even in your response you say "you seem to be taking it seriously"...if it was about me, why didn't you respond to MY post on the matter, your townread, rather than slOosh's, your scumread?
Well there are a lot of posts to get through. I was working through them but realised answering everyone is not working. It doesn't matter to me where the case comes from. Your post mirrored his anyway.
You are not scummy because you chose to vote for Jackal when you didn't have to. His lynch was basically everyone sheeping sandroba and you had made it clear you thought Jackal was town. Of all the people in this thread you had a reasonable explanation for not voting for Jackal. But you chose to nail him to the wall. I just don't see why you would buss a potentially strong scum buddy on day 1.
The only one who was really pushing you was me. Sure sandroba was a little skeptical of you but you were in no danger of being lynched. The upside was minimal compared to losing a scum buddy.
There is nothing wrong with defending someone who is scum. Everyone does that at some time in the game because we don't know who scum are. Your actions, namely your vote, clears you in my mind.
I'll find your post and respond to it now.
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On March 22 2012 06:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I noticed that about Probulous too slOosh...the biggest actual stance he took yesterday was that I was scum based on my attack on johnnywup, which he ended up dissolving before the final vote stuff started happening. And after Jackal flipped scum, he didn't even look twice at me - just immediately voted for slOosh. If he were town and he had even an inkling that I was scum, wouldn't he be more convinced that I'm scum when Jackal (someone I called confirmed town early on and defended for a lot of D1) flipped scum?
I think I have explained this now. Jackal flipping scum does not make you scum because you had every reason not to vote for him. You had made it clear you thought he was town, like very very clear. Defending scum does not make you scum. It makes you more suspicious especially if you don't vote for them. Your actions make you town in my eyes.
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On March 22 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
You really can't think of an upside? Really?
If you were scum, your choice was this
- Vote for your scumbuddy severely reducing your odds of winning and gaining town credit.
- Not vote for your scumbuddy and increase your odds of winning and look scummier
You had pushed Jackal as town all game long. The upside to voting for him is that it confirms you. You give up a scumbuddy for a confirmed town. This is only useful if you were not confirmed town before. It is only really useful if you were under suspicion before. The only person pushing you was me and my case was shot to hell so you were in no danger.
Now the downside to unvoting would have been? Well you would have looked scummier for causing a no-lynch but hell so did everyone else who didn't vote for Jackal. You had a reason not to and he could come back Day 2 and prove his "innocence" anyway. I mean no-one would have known he was scum if he didn't swing. If he did eventually get lynched you could change your position and bus him then.
No the upside is so ridiculously small for the costs that I just don't see why you would do it. It made no rational sense for me to continue my line of enquiry because to me you were confirmed. So I looked elsewhere.
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VE I don't understand your case. I am scum because I didn't think you were mafia after you voted for Jackal?
What is wrong with my reasoning because it still makes sense to me? Votes > words in my opinion. Explain this to me because I am completely at a loss as to why this makes me scum. I am town and have followed the same logic I use every game so if there is something fundamentally wrong in my thinking, point it out. Otherwise I am going to get mis-lynched again.
Does everyone else understand what VE is saying?
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On March 22 2012 08:22 VisceraEyes wrote:I'm taking a step back. Maybe reread your filter. If you still look like scum, I'll try and explain it to you again.
In the meantime, I'll just point out that the italicized statement in the quote above indicates inherent self-guilt. If you'll notice, there's a fair amount of resistance to switching off slOosh...but I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to you.
No it doesn't because I am still catching up on what happened between last night and now. Everyone sheeped sandroba Day 1 and now both you and him are pushing me. I see a miss-lynch coming. When I wrote that, I meant in the future generally, as in my logic won't change unless you can explain to me why it is bad so I will get miss-lynched in the future.
Anyway, I am going to take a break and try and regather myself. I'm a little frustrated now and I don't think it is helping my posting.
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On March 22 2012 08:29 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 08:25 johnnywup wrote:On March 22 2012 08:19 Probulous wrote:
Does everyone else understand what VE is saying? not really, this is way over my head right now @_@ i'll vote for whoever sand votes for, really.. also TIPD what the fuck have you done all game anyways? post randomly about who you think is scum and whos inno, and then vote occasionally? Maybe i would answer if you were not such a cunt + Show Spoiler +swearing is bad children, don't do it
Really?
Come on son there is no need for that. I agree with Johnny that you have been useless this game. Laya, I don't expect anything from Bluelightz but you are a decent scum-hunter. Shape up.
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After we lynch slOosh we lynch TIPD.
On March 19 2012 19:03 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
I'm not sure of Probulous but I think a DT should check him I think This is so scummy it is not funny. Only scum push provide single targets for the DT. It narrows the pool of suggested targets to townies. I know this because I am his suggested target.
On the lurkers, I think we should keep on the pressure, I'm waiting on Jackal cause I never get a correct read on him(except in purgatory mafia mwahahahhaha) I'm gonna read up some past games of him as town and scum to compare, for reference to anyone that is going to compare Mafia, I will use MLP Mafia for his town games and TL Mafia XLVIII as for his scum games. I'm gonna talk about this with my other part as soon as I can. This has been used as a reason for TIPD being town  He just says he is waiting on Jackal. How is that pressure? The irony is that he wants to pressure lurkers but is absent from this thread more than most.
Here (Klicky) he actually defends Jackal.
On March 19 2012 20:56 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
jcarl, about your statement on Jackal I think he justs lurk his heart out day 1 =_=, just take a look at the latest Mr.Wiggles Mini, he had like 3 posts d1 but he did post more AFTER it ==". Jackal was town that game, this looks a soft-defense to me. Then comes this
Since your here, I'd like to give you this question, What do you think about lurking? Is it a Scummy or Towny trait? I feel that lurking IS both a scummy & towny trait, Scummy because scum avoid contributing, but also towny because most newbie townies tend to lurk, but there is that exception for those who are known to do that ==". Jackal is no newbie, he is clearly a veteran and well aware of how bad lurking is for town. Again, this looks like a soft-defense to me.
On March 20 2012 04:08 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
We both think Jackal looks about as scummy as he typically does
More soft defense from here (Klicky).
At this point they have been very careful about Jackal. This is the meat of their reasoning for voting for him (Klicky)
On March 20 2012 06:12 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:Our reasons: He posts a little at the start but then He does very little to move discussion forward or even participate in it The closest thing to analysis he produced was this and he follows it with a vote after VE prods him. he pops back in to sheep the case on snarf with a vote, minutes after it was posted. This indicates to me that he is not looking for scum but rather a place to put his vote. Which is a fairly solid case, especially since Jackal flipped mafia. However note how it is hardly any different than anything they have been saying earlier. Namely that Jackal is useless. Note how it comes after sandroba, johnnywup, Dirkzor and xksc had voted for him. It also comes after sandroba outlined his reasoning here (Klicky). This is a bandwagon change of vote disguised as a case.
Here we have a nice little attempt at outing the Cop (assuming we have one) (Klicky). Follow the cop only works if we have a medic, with two roleblocks claimed it is possible that instead of a medic we have a town roleblocker. Then comes a blatant bandwagon vote for slOosh (Klicky) and a useless put down of both VE and myself (Klicky).
The only thing going for TIPD right now is their vote on Jackal. It was pretty early (5th vote) and most people who voted for him seemed to bandwagon sandroba. I could easily see them being bussing Jackal to avoid suspicion today. I am more comfortable with a slOosh lynch because of his unvote, but if he is getting let off (why?) than TIPD is our lynch target today.
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On March 22 2012 09:48 Nemesis wrote:
Just rereading prob's filter, I just have a quick question, you said you were in a company meeting??? So that means that you are working full time?
I read through a bit about your other games, and it says there that you are attending class everyday and a student?
I highly doubt that you have time for both, so which is it?
I saw your EBWOP but for clarity's sake, yes I do both actually. I work full time and I study part time (by correspondence). In short I have no life. I play mafia when I am work because my job is boring as batshit.
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On March 22 2012 09:56 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 07:27 sandroba wrote:
Yes, but cop should only claim on a red check or to save an innocent from lynch. DT check on VE would put my mind at ease. I guess sandroba is scum since only scum do this.
I thought follow the cop was where the cop outs themselves with a check (any kind) and the medic saves them from then on? The cop survives as long as the medic does and can have his checks suggested by confirmed townies. It confirms another townie and makes mafia WIFOM about shooting the cop. There is a difference between giving up the cop for a confirmed red and just blindly outing themselves.
The way I read it sandroba is being pretty specific about when we should follow the cop whilst TIPD is not.
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On March 22 2012 10:03 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 19:03 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
I'm not sure of Probulous but I think a DT should check him I think Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 07:27 sandroba wrote:
DT check on VE would put my mind at ease. lol
Ok, I guess that part of my case is weak, but what about the rest of it?
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On March 22 2012 10:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, interestingly I wasn't referring to the 'follow the cop' part of the quote, I was referring to the part of the quote where he only provides one name for a DT to check. You know, the scum-tell you just educated us about. So should we lynch sandroba? Him targetting me for a DT check had nothing to do with the whole 'follow the cop' thing, he provided one target for the DT. Something only scum do right? We vote-switchin or what?
That part was wrong I guess. I don't like people pushing blues around, especially if they are specific about individuals. You have to admit it is an easy way for mafia to make sure they don't get checked. If sandroba had said that without being confirmed mason I would have pushed him on it as well.
Does that invalidate my whole case? What is your position on TIPD?
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On March 22 2012 10:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
How's this for the rest of it. The meat of your case is his defense of Jackal.
I defended Jackal for a fair amount of D1. How is that any different? What makes TIPD scum rather than me?
You
"Jackal is clearly town"
TIPD
"Jackal always lurks Day 1 and this is scummy"
Big difference in my mind.
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On March 20 2012 04:08 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
We both think Jackal looks about as scummy as he typically does
This is probably the most diplomatic, fence sitting postion I have read in a game of mafia. Note the use of the word "about" and "typically". The fact is Jackal's play didn't change since this post and the only that did cahnge was four other people voted for him. What does this even say? Is Jackal town or scum?
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EPT
