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On March 24 2012 04:15 jaj22 wrote:EchelonTee: Not really. More a victory that shows the positive side of sheeping, as long as you pick a near-confirmed town veteran to sheep  Towards the end of day 1, there are no strong or popular cases. Sandroba calls a late switch on Jackal, who's not playing much scummier than usual. I'm not sure Sandroba thought it was much better than a 50/50 shot, given that he wanted an even later switch to Sloosh. Picks up five town votes not including his mason buddy and a terrible bus. Scum unravels from there. If Sandroba picks a townie, it's a totally different game. This was always a risk in the game with Sandroba as mason, but scum could have reduced the risk by pushing a case harder themselves. All three scum were pretty quiet. Sloosh's day 2 play was decent, but then his day 1 performance was bad and that got him into trouble in the first place. This idea of lurking day 1 because you're prone to tunnelling otherwise is not good. VE's new style freaked me out. Something about the way he toned down his language. Probably worked though, as he wasn't alienating as many people as usual despite the early noob-tunnelling.
Is it any different than veterans who tend to lurk early to avoid night-kills? Or scum who lurk early to hide in lurkers? I didn't see it as bad as just a style of play thing. slOosh really pulled through with contributing in the end.
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On March 24 2012 04:19 Toadesstern wrote:yeah agree, I said that in the obs-QT as well: Show nested quote +I think you should have been more active d1, pretty much every one out of your team. I say that all the time and it really is true:
Day 1 is the easiest day for mafia to get massive amounts of towncred. Town has NO idea what they're doing, no idea who is mafia and you can be active and actually play pro-town without hurting your team at all. Just look back at d1 and look who people accused.
Basicly EVERYONE was called scummy d1 at some point and VE thought Jackal is town (the only townread before the masonclaim). You guys could have done that as well without getting yourself caught. I really dislike those mafia players who are just lurking. Yes it can work out, especially if you got a bunch of lurkers in town as well to hide between but it's some kind of an all-in, There is no problem at all to post early on as mafia. Town has no idea what's going on, just post as if you roled VT and you're fine as long as you're rereading your posts before pressing "post" to check for scumslips; although I still think there's no such thing as a scumslip, at least when talking about people who aren't using english as their native tongue because you guys saw me "scumslip" several times as a townie as well, just because I posted something with german grammar after rearranging my post, so that happens as well and imo you have no idea how to figure out if it's a townie slip because english is not his 1st language or a mafia slip but whatever.Prob did good imo once Jackal died. His defence on d2 was decent, at least about the stuff he was asked and it made sense. Obviously him not doing a shit on d1 and suddenly starting to bust out like that after Jackal looked weird and it was hard to explain that he suddenly cared so much about the game when he did not 24 hours ago. Except for the fact that he did not do that d1 as well, he did a decent game imo.
I can attest to this, in XLVIII there were a couple times where I was literally like "TOAD DAMNIT YOU JUST CLAIMED SCUM IN THE THREAD WHAT THE HOLY FUCK"
Yeah, I go overboard sometimes.
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On March 24 2012 04:22 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 04:18 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 24 2012 04:15 jaj22 wrote:EchelonTee: Not really. More a victory that shows the positive side of sheeping, as long as you pick a near-confirmed town veteran to sheep Towards the end of day 1, there are no strong or popular cases. Sandroba calls a late switch on Jackal, who's not playing much scummier than usual. I'm not sure Sandroba thought it was much better than a 50/50 shot, given that he wanted an even later switch to Sloosh. Picks up five town votes not including his mason buddy and a terrible bus. Scum unravels from there. If Sandroba picks a townie, it's a totally different game. This was always a risk in the game with Sandroba as mason, but scum could have reduced the risk by pushing a case harder themselves. All three scum were pretty quiet. Sloosh's day 2 play was decent, but then his day 1 performance was bad and that got him into trouble in the first place. This idea of lurking day 1 because you're prone to tunnelling otherwise is not good. VE's new style freaked me out. Something about the way he toned down his language. Probably worked though, as he wasn't alienating as many people as usual despite the early noob-tunnelling. Is it any different than veterans who tend to lurk early to avoid night-kills? Or scum who lurk early to hide in lurkers? I didn't see it as bad as just a style of play thing. slOosh really pulled through with contributing in the end. well veterans do that for a reason. If you are foolish and you know you're going to have a list that is 99% dead on by the end of d3, be my guest and lurk the first few days to survive but in sloOshs case it made no sense. I don't think he is capable of doing that (no offence, I am neither) and I don't think he is capable to lead town yet, because people don't know if he's capable to do that or not.
slOosh wasn't doing it to try and lead town later - his reasoning was different if I'm understanding correctly. He's trying to avoid tunneling D1 to cut down on the possibility of "confirmation bias" later on and look less scummy overall (lurking>tunneling).
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On March 24 2012 04:50 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Also for fairness snarfs should have been modkilled imo (but not banned or anything). Yes, it was the hosts fault for not giving out the standard role pms, but it fucked scum over a lot.
QFT. I wouldn't have begrudged a modkill in this instance...it was clear rule infraction and leaving him alive gave us one more vote we would have had to win over otherwise. Look at the Jackal lynch, for instance.
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He signed the contract stating he read the OP after all. I assumed infractions would be met with swift justice.
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D1 is the hardest, because you can't be sure of anything. I've found it's easier to get discussion going by picking on something small someone does (see my response to WBG entering the thread in Storm or my johnnywup push this game) and seeing what happens from there than it is to discuss topics that everyone has an uninformed opinion on. Getting people to talk about what is scummy is important because it causes mafia to reveal things about their town-play perspective that you can compare with their play later on.
The thing about little prods is that in larger games, prods like that can get lost in the shuffle, even in a relatively chilled thread environment. By focusing on one player and forcing that one player to respond before you do anything else, you not only put yourself out there for people to read you (that should be your number one goal as a town aligned player, regardless of role), you also are sure to not get lost in the shuffle. Get page bumped? Blame it on his scumteam and ask again!
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Probulous, you were easily scum MVP. You were doing a fine job of deflecting/mitigating suspicion....while you were here.  You should have focus-fired me bro, sandroba might have been swayed and taken you across the finish-line. I get frustrated when people who make sense start to suspect me. Even after the Jackal lynch, I was a very attractive fall-guy if you presented it in the right way, and I think you could have done it. Your own doubt got in your way.
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It should be pretty good - he doesn't show it in games, but bugs is actually pretty logical-minded.
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Toad, the only time I talked about medics was when I was issuing commands to ALL power roles, the only exception being when I decided to try to prod Sandroba for his thoughts by rescinding medic priviledges. But yeah, I was trying to be overly NOT BLUE, I see what you're saying.
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WBG your scum analysis should be a new-player's guide to scum. Srs, get whomever is in charge of the TL Library on the horn. Everything - EVERYTHING you just said I've noticed in my dealings with new players on scum teams I've played on.
No, I take that back. Some stuff needs other stuff. Additional stuff. I'll PM you later. But this game should certainly be noted somewhere on the Library.
And you're getting nominated for Mod Award for this game too (I think those exist right? No? We're makin one) for the effort overall. Next one should have an SK obv obv.
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My early attitude toward Jackal was a joke more than anything, with the "confirmed town" nonsense.
TBH the real meat of that statement was the "started early" part, joking that he was already drunk-posting LMAO
I had an early town read on Jackal to be sure, for how he called me out on my early posting, but it wasn't as strong as anyone actually believes. Everyone focused on the wrong thing and EVERYONE missed the joke. 
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johnny you did a fine job. I grilled you early on for a dumb reason and you reacted splendidly. You were open and honest, answering every question you were asked and asking questions when you wanted information. I don't know if the votes just resonated with you, but you were willing to vote with town if you felt your candidate was weaker than the proposed candidate and it's part of the reason we won the game. You didn't OMGUS me when it would have been so easy for the reason I was voting for you.
Overall you did really well johnny, and I mean that. We did it! We smashed the scumteam together!
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On March 24 2012 15:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I feel like it's kind of hard to judge individual play this game, especially for town. Town did incredible good and after the very nice Jackal lynch the game was basicly already won.
I mean the guys who are not considered to be vets sheeped the confirmed townie vet and that guy ended up being dead on right d1. It was the right decision to do that as a townie but it gives little to analyze about those people because they did little on their own.
I liked Nemesis a lot the first couple of hours (the first RL-day) and the fact that he was not blindly following without thinking this trough although he should have realized what was going on later on. That kind of asking questions really is a nice town treat although people gave him a hard time for not just accepting what was said in the thread.
VE did a good job d2 and d3.
Sandroba did a nice job given that he was kind of mod-confirmed and didn't have to prove his alignment.
That's btw the reason I really like the nooby mafia games. I'm not so sure it was a good game to learn from for townies.
I doubt the new guys understood why Sandroba wanted Jackal dead and he still hasn't explained his thoughts behind his d1 and d2 actions which still leaves me uncertain what his plan was d2 when he "sheeped" the rest like VE. I got a couple of guesses and I think those could be right but I'm not certain.
And at the same time everyone else was following Sandroba without doing a lot themselves, because he's Sandroba after all. Sure sometimes you need to know when to shut up and just sheep the good guys but it took away a lot of work from other people and that's what is going to improve your play naturally.
I think you're putting too much stock in vote analysis Toad - the players you're saying weren't providing anything useful by sheeping were, in fact, providing something useful...they had spent all day and would spend all night establishing their towniness by other means. While it's true that they could have reached their own conclusion more often than they did, I think that by cooperating in the effort they contributed FAR more than voting for whoever THEIR best read was and allowing a no-lynch to happen.
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On March 24 2012 15:38 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 15:04 Toadesstern wrote:On March 24 2012 14:58 VisceraEyes wrote:Toad, the only time I talked about medics was when I was issuing commands to ALL power roles, the only exception being when I decided to try to prod Sandroba for his thoughts by rescinding medic priviledges. But yeah, I was trying to be overly NOT BLUE, I see what you're saying. when I said medic I also was referring to all that "protection to me" stuff and all. So maybe that caught my eye because I knew you were the medic idk but it really looked like a lot of medic talk to me. However, without knowing you're a medic talking about protection and stuff like that probably doesn't look so weird because after all you were quite vocal d1 and needed protection. I for one was surprised to see the VE tuned out to be a medic. I personally thought he was a good mafia player, until all the mafia started dying...
Quote of the thread. Thank you Dimmu. Yes, I realize it wasn't a compliment.
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On March 24 2012 16:42 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Yeah VE is pretty good. I'm proud he joined mafia after the noobie game he played for stupid reasons.
To be honest, I'm not really sure what you're saying here. Do you mean after my horrific showing in SNMMII?
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Dude, after you explained HOW I was playing poorly, the game took on a whole different level of depth.
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No shit tipsy, everyone knows Palmar is Mr. Everyone'sRetardedButMe. layabout is Mr. FutileVenganceKill
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EPT
