|
On March 01 2012 01:49 phagga wrote:
@Gumshoe:
1. Zelblade just dropped the info. You then started pushing for more information on his role, for his thoughts on the roleblock etc. (writing from mobile, too lazy to look it up). He tried to drop the topic, you pushed on. If someone is making a spectacle, it's you.
2. If mafia thought he was doc, they would have shot him or will do so soon.
3. The info he gave us might be useful in the future.
I disagree the info he gave us is useless, it will never be useful and forgive me for being suspicious of someone for giving us useless information. I didn't push him for more info, I pushed him because I think he's scummy, but I'll drop my suspicions because as you've said this has wasted enough time already.
|
Also nttea looks more like newb townie to me. Thats the feel I get from his post, and I highly doubt (abit of wifom here but please bear with me) that he would post like this with scumbuddies to help and coach him. He seems lost atm, and at any rate is a terrible lynch for today - easy to hop on, no information if he flips town.
That said, nttea you need to step up though. If you have trouble understanding what is going on perhaps take a look at one of the excellent guides around here or perhaps ask for help from one of the vets.
|
Mindset correction:
On February 29 2012 07:53 Chocolate wrote:
As for the alderan case, he does seem to be moving around a lot too, but at least he is driving discussion.
This is a dangerous mindset to hold as is untrue. There is a difference in a person driving discussion and discussion being generated about/around a person. In this case it is the latter, and it is easy for either mafia or town to defend themselves and thereby "create" content. It shouldn't be considered a town tell on that account, let alone the fact that there are mafia playstyles that are very active (zarepath in NMMIII comes to mind).
Stuff revolving around Alderan:
First off is the flushing of lurkers. I held off on commenting because of this exact reason, and we see nttea come out, sheeping my case. Could be a newbie townie unsure of how to contribute or a mafia supporting a mislynch, or a mafia busing a teammate under scrutiny to take attention off of themselves. Its good that people are keeping watch of everyone, and a few people have called him out. Please stay on that, and for everyone else keep an eye on that (it is counter productive if we all turn our attention to that since if case he is newbie town we just wasted the whole day, and it might turn into easy bandwagon on him, and we don't need whole town to pressure lurkers)
Second:
On February 29 2012 16:13 k2hd wrote:Sloosh, I wanted to ask you about this part of your case against alderan Show nested quote +Summary: Alderan has shown a great bias against Chocolate. He tries to focus people on him (such as Janaan when he posted about ghost) but is perfectly willing to drop it when DYH comes in to call out what is going on. Even so he picks it back up and tries to get people to look at it, and then tries to get something on Steveling started on the sole basis that he is involved with Chocolate.
Conclusion: It could be a case of serious tunneling (which I doubt as he seemingly listened to DYH), but I find it more likely that he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case.
It does seem, as you say, that alderan is focusing hard on chocolate, but is he really trying to set up multiple targets? From what I can tell, at the point you made that post, he was only setting up chocolate and steveling to be scrutinised, and dropped his case against ghost. I think it's becoming more and more likely that chocolate is town, so if alderan were scum, why waste his vote on steveling, who he knew was not going to attract enough votes for a lynch? .
I think we have different usage of the word "set up". Mine is more along the lines of what I bolded in your post, and what I wrote as my conclusion: " he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case". I don't think his goal was to pull off the mislynch D1 (I doubt mafia would be so brazen to do that last minute when it would result in intense scrutiny of whoever caused the last minute swing) - I'm saying that it is suspicious to cast suspicion on people without good reason.
Third:
I didn't bring this piece of information up since I wanted to see how Alderan, and others would respond to my case and his defense. If you look at his PBPA on Choco and read where the quotes come from in Choco's filter, you will realize that the quotes are not chronological (the 3rd quote is actually written before the 1st and 2nd quotes).
This is why my suspicion remains on him - removing time stamps so people won't instantly be able to realize it to build a misleading case and cast suspicion on Choco. At best this is a biased townie who built the case with the mindset of proving that Choco is mafia. Was it an honest mistake? Maybe, but if we spend the whole game excusing potentially intentionally poor play by saying it is a newbie game we won't ever get anywhere.
Stance on gumshoe
On March 01 2012 00:07 gumshoe wrote:
Whats wrong with trying to deduce motive? Please, if you guys have something better to say I am all ears, why is it pointless to discuss motive? This is our space, were supposed to feel comfterble here to talk as we please, the mafia are the ones who are unwelcome.
As to the discussion revolving around the N1 Janaan kill - Phagga put it best himself:
On March 01 2012 00:23 phagga wrote:
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
It is discussion that is inconclusive. We can try to guess what the mafia were thinking, but that is all it will amount to. A guess. Even if we discussed it over and come to a consensus, it is still at best conjecture that isn't strong enough to help find and lynch mafia. The reason why we should stop talking about it, is that it allows an easy avenue for mafia to contribute, because its ultimately meaningless - they don't fear saying anything condemning because everyone doing is just guessing and no one is going to be called out on a guess.
I don't like gumshoe right now for two reasons:
1) Is the obviously weak accusations he is flinging at me. For someone who is obviously against the use of meta
On February 29 2012 00:15 gumshoe wrote:
Now unless you want invole the m word(i dare you to say it) theres not much all to discuss about the matter. Any other questions?
his sole suspicion of me revolves around meta. I've clearly explained the intentional change in my playstyle, and he tries casting suspicion on me, and getting others to do it for him.
On February 29 2012 15:11 gumshoe wrote:
DYH think about it from scums perspective, alderaan is one of the biggest players, his primary suspicion happens to be a town, what better way to throw doubt on Alderaan?
Personally I think we should just look back at the people who were trying to build cases against alderaan.
a few come to mind, one in particular has been acting strange all game, you might know him, after all, he killed you in a past life.
Not only is it suspicious for him to do this, I have to divert attention and time addressing this each time so people don't start thinking like him and start ignoring my cases and discussion points, and it is really hindering my ability to generate quality posts.
2) His fixation on
Zelblade basically built a case while I was writing up this post.
Will read over it and Alderan's response when I have time during the latter part of the day.
|
Gumshoe, do you really think that me claiming roleblock is useless? Would you rather I keep it a secret and claim it like 5 days later after a roleblocker has flipped and you guys are asking if anyone got roleblocked? It is valuable information if I flip - you guys know they have a roleblocker. Sure, not the most useful piece of information in the world, but every bit is useful and helps town is some way.
|
I also need to go sleep now since its 1am and i have school tomorrow. Gosh not looking forward to operating on four hours sleep tomorrow =/
|
On March 01 2012 01:51 zelblade wrote:
Because if you get roleblocked you claim it. Immdiatedly. Its information mafia already have, and town having more information is always a plus. Lets say you got roleblocked. Would you hide that fact, or let it out into the open?
And no, I am not making a spectacle. The one doing so it you. We need to move on from this crap and start hunting some scum.
Onto the more important stuff.
I believe that a few of you (Sloosh, DYH, Hyde) are perhaps expecting too much from Alderan, and perhaps fear his scum play to an extent. I feel that his actions havent been scummy, and the cases made against him arent really great. What he has been called out for is supposedly dumping suspision on mutiple players. I do think that his thought process which he explained is perfectly valid. His play also happens to be totally diffrent from last game, where he played a safe scum that made the "right reads" and looked blue. His plan for day 1 was simply to tunnel dimmuklok, casting as much doubt without actually lynching him, instead wanting to leave him as a potential easy mislynch further into the game (which did not happen ofc). Furthermore, the activity diffrence is also staggering. I dont believe that he changed his style so much in just one game.
Im suspisious of gumshoe. I dont how much wifom he has been applying to everything, and how he tried to rolefish. I did get the sense that he was improving greatly last game, but this game it seems that he has faded to a point where he isnt doing much. You could see that gum was constantly trying last game, and was being really enthusiastic about the game, constantly attempting to contribute (abliet in pretty bad ways lol), and eventually got better with his reads.
However , look at his filter this game. There is hardly anything of note inside. It is a massive 6 5 pages ( -1 I guess since its pregame talk), but notice how little he says. Most of it is fluff, friendly (or unfriendly) banter, insistence on no no lynch and a bunch of wifom. Note how his only real contributions are him sheeping DYH on fourface, FOSing ghost and backing off using "irony" as an excuse, than saying that ghost is the best lynch about 2 posts after he backs off his pressure, citing "information" on sloosh as a primary reason. He also dumps out a couple of FOS on sloosh and steveling at the same time. I find his actions scummy, and it is alarming that he has managed to post so much yet say so little.
Yes, the gumshoe last game spammed as well. But look at the diffrence. That game his posts, whilst generally making little sense at the start (slowly improving) were filled with content, as opposed to the one-liners that he is spamming here. I suggest you guys to take a look at his filters from both games, and you would easily see the stark diffrence.
Which is also why I feel that gumshoe is our best lynch for today.
##vote: gumshoe
the stark difference is that I'm bored -_- nothing has happened, no lynch no significant cases, this whole game is just a stew of uncertainty right now. I am here before anything else to enjoy myself, by way of contributions ive pressured ghost, posted a case against sloosh which still stands and provided reasoning that ghost could be connected to sloosh so he's the better lynch bet at the time, also pushed for a lynch period, I've defended an active poster, commented on motive, defended myself, pressured you for giving us useless information and yes I've talked a lot because as I said i've been bored.
So please lynch me so I can sign up for something a bit better more exciting ) :,maybe my mislynch will give the game the spark it needs, as of now I would much prefer obsing, where are the cases the arguments the fire? All that I find in its place is the tranquility that settles across a barren wasteland devoid of reasoning left ever dark by four looming shadows.
|
On March 01 2012 02:03 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 01:51 zelblade wrote:
Because if you get roleblocked you claim it. Immdiatedly. Its information mafia already have, and town having more information is always a plus. Lets say you got roleblocked. Would you hide that fact, or let it out into the open?
And no, I am not making a spectacle. The one doing so it you. We need to move on from this crap and start hunting some scum.
Onto the more important stuff.
I believe that a few of you (Sloosh, DYH, Hyde) are perhaps expecting too much from Alderan, and perhaps fear his scum play to an extent. I feel that his actions havent been scummy, and the cases made against him arent really great. What he has been called out for is supposedly dumping suspision on mutiple players. I do think that his thought process which he explained is perfectly valid. His play also happens to be totally diffrent from last game, where he played a safe scum that made the "right reads" and looked blue. His plan for day 1 was simply to tunnel dimmuklok, casting as much doubt without actually lynching him, instead wanting to leave him as a potential easy mislynch further into the game (which did not happen ofc). Furthermore, the activity diffrence is also staggering. I dont believe that he changed his style so much in just one game.
Im suspisious of gumshoe. I dont how much wifom he has been applying to everything, and how he tried to rolefish. I did get the sense that he was improving greatly last game, but this game it seems that he has faded to a point where he isnt doing much. You could see that gum was constantly trying last game, and was being really enthusiastic about the game, constantly attempting to contribute (abliet in pretty bad ways lol), and eventually got better with his reads.
However , look at his filter this game. There is hardly anything of note inside. It is a massive 6 5 pages ( -1 I guess since its pregame talk), but notice how little he says. Most of it is fluff, friendly (or unfriendly) banter, insistence on no no lynch and a bunch of wifom. Note how his only real contributions are him sheeping DYH on fourface, FOSing ghost and backing off using "irony" as an excuse, than saying that ghost is the best lynch about 2 posts after he backs off his pressure, citing "information" on sloosh as a primary reason. He also dumps out a couple of FOS on sloosh and steveling at the same time. I find his actions scummy, and it is alarming that he has managed to post so much yet say so little.
Yes, the gumshoe last game spammed as well. But look at the diffrence. That game his posts, whilst generally making little sense at the start (slowly improving) were filled with content, as opposed to the one-liners that he is spamming here. I suggest you guys to take a look at his filters from both games, and you would easily see the stark diffrence.
Which is also why I feel that gumshoe is our best lynch for today.
##vote: gumshoe the stark difference is that I'm bored -_- nothing has happened, no lynch no significant cases, this whole game is just a stew of uncertainty right now. I am here before anything else to enjoy myself, by way of contributions ive pressured ghost, posted a case against sloosh which still stands and provided reasoning that ghost could be connected to sloosh so he's the better lynch bet at the time, also pushed for a lynch period, I've defended an active poster, commented on motive, defended myself, pressured you for giving us useless information and yes I've talked a lot because as I said i've been bored. So please lynch me so I can sign up for something a bit better more exciting ) :,maybe my mislynch will give the game the spark it needs, as of now I would much prefer obsing, where are the cases the arguments the fire? All that I find in its place is the tranquility that settles across a barren wasteland devoid of reasoning left ever dark by four looming shadows.
What the fish.
|
@gumshoe Saying "Lynch me" is playing against your win condition. Stop it.
|
On March 01 2012 02:06 ghost_403 wrote:
@gumshoe Saying "Lynch me" is playing against your win condition. Stop it.
Today I'm gonna think about asking for a replacement, I think like steveling said it was too soon to get back into the game, it's just not as exciting as it was.
I'll stop posting for a while, please feel free to accuse me for that and a multitude of other things, I'll let you guys know by the end of today if I want to keep playing, but you may just be better of lynching me if I get replaced because it looks fishy if I quit like this and it also looks fishy if I don't quit like this and it even looks fishy if I say nothing or anything whatsoever.
I like mafia, but it is a commitment and I may not be able to commit any real effort right now.
I'll let you guys know in the next twelve hours or so if I want to quit. But if I come back it'll be with a case because theres no point half assing this right  ?
regardless gl to town.
|
On March 01 2012 01:55 slOosh wrote:Mindset correction:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 07:53 Chocolate wrote:
As for the alderan case, he does seem to be moving around a lot too, but at least he is driving discussion. This is a dangerous mindset to hold as is untrue. There is a difference in a person driving discussion and discussion being generated about/around a person. In this case it is the latter, and it is easy for either mafia or town to defend themselves and thereby "create" content. It shouldn't be considered a town tell on that account, let alone the fact that there are mafia playstyles that are very active (zarepath in NMMIII comes to mind).
Stuff revolving around Alderan:First off is the flushing of lurkers. I held off on commenting because of this exact reason, and we see nttea come out, sheeping my case. Could be a newbie townie unsure of how to contribute or a mafia supporting a mislynch, or a mafia busing a teammate under scrutiny to take attention off of themselves. Its good that people are keeping watch of everyone, and a few people have called him out. Please stay on that, and for everyone else keep an eye on that (it is counter productive if we all turn our attention to that since if case he is newbie town we just wasted the whole day, and it might turn into easy bandwagon on him, and we don't need whole town to pressure lurkers) Second: Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 16:13 k2hd wrote:Sloosh, I wanted to ask you about this part of your case against alderan Summary: Alderan has shown a great bias against Chocolate. He tries to focus people on him (such as Janaan when he posted about ghost) but is perfectly willing to drop it when DYH comes in to call out what is going on. Even so he picks it back up and tries to get people to look at it, and then tries to get something on Steveling started on the sole basis that he is involved with Chocolate.
Conclusion: It could be a case of serious tunneling (which I doubt as he seemingly listened to DYH), but I find it more likely that he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case.
It does seem, as you say, that alderan is focusing hard on chocolate, but is he really trying to set up multiple targets? From what I can tell, at the point you made that post, he was only setting up chocolate and steveling to be scrutinised, and dropped his case against ghost. I think it's becoming more and more likely that chocolate is town, so if alderan were scum, why waste his vote on steveling, who he knew was not going to attract enough votes for a lynch? . I think we have different usage of the word "set up". Mine is more along the lines of what I bolded in your post, and what I wrote as my conclusion: " he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case". I don't think his goal was to pull off the mislynch D1 (I doubt mafia would be so brazen to do that last minute when it would result in intense scrutiny of whoever caused the last minute swing) - I'm saying that it is suspicious to cast suspicion on people without good reason. Third: I didn't bring this piece of information up since I wanted to see how Alderan, and others would respond to my case and his defense. If you look at his PBPA on Choco and read where the quotes come from in Choco's filter, you will realize that the quotes are not chronological (the 3rd quote is actually written before the 1st and 2nd quotes). This is why my suspicion remains on him - removing time stamps so people won't instantly be able to realize it to build a misleading case and cast suspicion on Choco. At best this is a biased townie who built the case with the mindset of proving that Choco is mafia. Was it an honest mistake? Maybe, but if we spend the whole game excusing potentially intentionally poor play by saying it is a newbie game we won't ever get anywhere.
Stance on gumshoeShow nested quote +On March 01 2012 00:07 gumshoe wrote:
Whats wrong with trying to deduce motive? Please, if you guys have something better to say I am all ears, why is it pointless to discuss motive? This is our space, were supposed to feel comfterble here to talk as we please, the mafia are the ones who are unwelcome. As to the discussion revolving around the N1 Janaan kill - Phagga put it best himself: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 00:23 phagga wrote:
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
It is discussion that is inconclusive. We can try to guess what the mafia were thinking, but that is all it will amount to. A guess. Even if we discussed it over and come to a consensus, it is still at best conjecture that isn't strong enough to help find and lynch mafia. The reason why we should stop talking about it, is that it allows an easy avenue for mafia to contribute, because its ultimately meaningless - they don't fear saying anything condemning because everyone doing is just guessing and no one is going to be called out on a guess. I don't like gumshoe right now for two reasons: 1) Is the obviously weak accusations he is flinging at me. For someone who is obviously against the use of meta Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 00:15 gumshoe wrote:
Now unless you want invole the m word(i dare you to say it) theres not much all to discuss about the matter. Any other questions? his sole suspicion of me revolves around meta. I've clearly explained the intentional change in my playstyle, and he tries casting suspicion on me, and getting others to do it for him. Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 15:11 gumshoe wrote:
DYH think about it from scums perspective, alderaan is one of the biggest players, his primary suspicion happens to be a town, what better way to throw doubt on Alderaan?
Personally I think we should just look back at the people who were trying to build cases against alderaan.
a few come to mind, one in particular has been acting strange all game, you might know him, after all, he killed you in a past life.
Not only is it suspicious for him to do this, I have to divert attention and time addressing this each time so people don't start thinking like him and start ignoring my cases and discussion points, and it is really hindering my ability to generate quality posts. 2) His fixation on Zelblade basically built a case while I was writing up this post. Will read over it and Alderan's response when I have time during the latter part of the day.
Sloosh this is getting repetitive....
- You say I'm just defending myself and that's where I'm generating content. If I'm correct I have posted more player analysis than anyone in this thread. Just because they are not "Super long, one post a day posts" (that I did last game when I was scum; that you are doing now) doesn't mean I'm not generating content.
- I didn't remove the stamps, it's just much easier to copy and paste and then add quote brackets. They are out of order because the post was not set up chronologically but topically. I wanted to put all the posts on lynching lurkers together, and then I wanted to talk about his lynch deadline availability.
- I don't know how you can call me a biased towny, I've said multiple times that my Chocolate case was not that strong, I've taken into account other's input, and I've posted new cases to see what others thought about it. This is how you scum hunt, and it's also the best way to maximize reactions of the town for more reads.
Any other questions?
|
Yuck, should have put that in spoilers, my apologies.
|
Catching up on the thread since last night, but have to leave for class soon. I'm gonna post some quick thoughts on what people have been discussing in the past page.
On February 29 2012 23:58 JekyllAndHyde wrote:
Okay, just a quick thought before I go to uni:
1)If Alderan is scum, then him killing a player he was going to push later doesn't make any sense, since he's hindering scums ability to push for a misslynch on said player, and he's hindering his own survival too.
2)If Alderan is town and scum are trying to frame him, it doesn't make any sense either. If you are trying to frame someone as scum, you kill the players pressuring him, you don't kill the players he's pressuring. Also, it wouldn't be a very good job at framing him, if any townie can figure out (1) and know it doesn't make sense for Alderan to kill Janaan from a scum POV.
So this makes me think, that either this was very bad scum play, or Janaan was killed independantly of any effects caused on Alderan and other players' thoughts on him.
I'd just want to address this now so people (i.e gumshoe) don't dwell on this WIFOM for too much longer.
/Hyde
I agree totally this Hyde on this one. I don't think there is anything we can deduce and so we should probably just drop it.
On March 01 2012 00:23 phagga wrote:+ Show Spoiler +We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
Also, the way you questioned zelblade looked heavily like rolefishing, so stop it. We only risk that towns (green and blue) accidentally slip information about their role, and that benefits mafia as well. Our focus must be in finding out who is red, not who is green and blue. The roleblock on zelblade does not help us at the moment. It may be useful later when we have more information on everything. But for now, it opens two possibilities: - zelblade got roleblocked. That would make him pretty much confirmed town. - Zelblade is mafia, mafia did not use their roleblock, and zelblade pretends to have been roleblocked to look confirmed town. That would make him confirmed scum. We cannot know which one of the above is true at this time. So please, let's drop this topic and try to find scum instead.
And I agree with phagga on this one.
So the way I see it, we're basically in the same spot information wise as we were last night. Gumshoe's play seems odd, and I'm not sure what to take out of it. Of everyone, he's the one I'm most eager to here more from today. We'll see how the day shapes up.
Note: While I was putting this together zel posted about and voted for gumshoe and sloosh posted a decently sized post. I'll catch up on those when I get back.
|
On March 01 2012 02:21 Alderan wrote:
- You say I'm just defending myself and that's where I'm generating content. If I'm correct I have posted more player analysis than anyone in this thread. Just because they are not "Super long, one post a day posts" (that I did last game when I was scum; that you are doing now) doesn't mean I'm not generating content.
Quite a claim. I'll get back to you on that.
|
On March 01 2012 02:18 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 02:06 ghost_403 wrote:
@gumshoe Saying "Lynch me" is playing against your win condition. Stop it. Today I'm gonna think about asking for a replacement, I think like steveling said it was too soon to get back into the game, it's just not as exciting as it was. I'll stop posting for a while, please feel free to accuse me for that and a multitude of other things, I'll let you guys know by the end of today if I want to keep playing, but you may just be better of lynching me if I get replaced because it looks fishy if I quit like this and it also looks fishy if I don't quit like this and it even looks fishy if I say nothing or anything whatsoever. I like mafia, but it is a commitment and I may not be able to commit any real effort right now. I'll let you guys know in the next twelve hours or so if I want to quit. But if I come back it'll be with a case because theres no point half assing this right ? regardless gl to town.
Let me be clear on this. You will not be replaced if you decide to quit. It isn't fair to your replacement for them to have to read 30+ pages just to start playing and have them be responsible for all the posts you have made so far this game (which is why we generally replace on day 1, but modkill after that).
You will be modkilled and you will receive a mafia ban. Signing up for a game is a commitment to play it through with reasonable effort. By doing less than that, you belittle the efforts of your fellow players who are trying to fulfill that commitment. That being said, you will not be forced to continue playing if you do not want to. Please let us know if you want us to modkill you.
Also, asking the town to lynch you because you're bored definitely qualifies as playing against your win condition.
|
On March 01 2012 03:10 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 02:18 gumshoe wrote:On March 01 2012 02:06 ghost_403 wrote:
@gumshoe Saying "Lynch me" is playing against your win condition. Stop it. Today I'm gonna think about asking for a replacement, I think like steveling said it was too soon to get back into the game, it's just not as exciting as it was. I'll stop posting for a while, please feel free to accuse me for that and a multitude of other things, I'll let you guys know by the end of today if I want to keep playing, but you may just be better of lynching me if I get replaced because it looks fishy if I quit like this and it also looks fishy if I don't quit like this and it even looks fishy if I say nothing or anything whatsoever. I like mafia, but it is a commitment and I may not be able to commit any real effort right now. I'll let you guys know in the next twelve hours or so if I want to quit. But if I come back it'll be with a case because theres no point half assing this right ? regardless gl to town. Let me be clear on this. You will not be replaced if you decide to quit. It isn't fair to your replacement for them to have to read 30+ pages just to start playing and have them be responsible for all the posts you have made so far this game (which is why we generally replace on day 1, but modkill after that).
You will be modkilled and you will receive a mafia ban. Signing up for a game is a commitment to play it through with reasonable effort. By doing less than that, you belittle the efforts of your fellow players who are trying to fulfill that commitment. That being said, you will not be forced to continue playing if you do not want to. Please let us know if you want us to modkill you.
Also, asking the town to lynch you because you're bored definitely qualifies as playing against your win condition.
very well sir I shall see this through.
Seeing as there is no going back now I will address every point against me,
first off in terms of my accusation against sloosh, it was founded on a similar basis as to the one now up against me, that sloosh's behavior has changed drastically since last game just as you believe mine has, I never considered that strong enough evidence to lynch sloosh, I wanted to find someone associated with him and lynch that individual, if that person flipped scum, I would have a basis against sloosh, if that person flipped green I would back off, at the time that person was ghost, but since that point in the game I have lost most of my suspicion against ghost, reason being that ghost seems to care about his image and has criteria as to when he should drop his suspicions. Now the only persons who seem connected to sloosh are those accusing him, one of which is me and another is Alderaan, so I am content for the time being to put aside my suspicion of him and pursue the lynch of a lurker so that we can limit our casualties.
Also zell blade I would rather you never have stated that information at all, nothing good can ever come from discussing non hit night actions.
currently my only stance is that we do not no lynch, my only preference is that we don't lynch me.
I will not be posting as much for the rest of the game, probably a case a day and responses to any questions you have for me.
|
I'm back from class, but I've got a lot of work to get done tonight, so I don't know how active I'll be able to be. Hopefully this shouldn't matter as we have the entirety of the day tomorrow to decide who to lynch.
With that said, after having the day to think, I've concluded gumshoe's badgering of zelblade was terribly suspicious and until I'm convinced that someone else is scummier than that, you can pencil me in as voting for a gumshoe lynch.
Oh, and I should mention that I think his whole "I'm bored" thing is not really worth worrying about. It could be that he's a mafia who realizes he's dug himself in a hole and doesn't want to play it out, or that he's just a townie who is legitimately bored. We have no way of knowing, so it does not effect my opinion of his alignment.
|
On March 01 2012 02:21 Alderan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 01:55 slOosh wrote:Mindset correction:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 07:53 Chocolate wrote:
As for the alderan case, he does seem to be moving around a lot too, but at least he is driving discussion. This is a dangerous mindset to hold as is untrue. There is a difference in a person driving discussion and discussion being generated about/around a person. In this case it is the latter, and it is easy for either mafia or town to defend themselves and thereby "create" content. It shouldn't be considered a town tell on that account, let alone the fact that there are mafia playstyles that are very active (zarepath in NMMIII comes to mind).
Stuff revolving around Alderan:First off is the flushing of lurkers. I held off on commenting because of this exact reason, and we see nttea come out, sheeping my case. Could be a newbie townie unsure of how to contribute or a mafia supporting a mislynch, or a mafia busing a teammate under scrutiny to take attention off of themselves. Its good that people are keeping watch of everyone, and a few people have called him out. Please stay on that, and for everyone else keep an eye on that (it is counter productive if we all turn our attention to that since if case he is newbie town we just wasted the whole day, and it might turn into easy bandwagon on him, and we don't need whole town to pressure lurkers) Second: Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 16:13 k2hd wrote:Sloosh, I wanted to ask you about this part of your case against alderan Summary: Alderan has shown a great bias against Chocolate. He tries to focus people on him (such as Janaan when he posted about ghost) but is perfectly willing to drop it when DYH comes in to call out what is going on. Even so he picks it back up and tries to get people to look at it, and then tries to get something on Steveling started on the sole basis that he is involved with Chocolate.
Conclusion: It could be a case of serious tunneling (which I doubt as he seemingly listened to DYH), but I find it more likely that he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case.
It does seem, as you say, that alderan is focusing hard on chocolate, but is he really trying to set up multiple targets? From what I can tell, at the point you made that post, he was only setting up chocolate and steveling to be scrutinised, and dropped his case against ghost. I think it's becoming more and more likely that chocolate is town, so if alderan were scum, why waste his vote on steveling, who he knew was not going to attract enough votes for a lynch? . I think we have different usage of the word "set up". Mine is more along the lines of what I bolded in your post, and what I wrote as my conclusion: " he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case". I don't think his goal was to pull off the mislynch D1 (I doubt mafia would be so brazen to do that last minute when it would result in intense scrutiny of whoever caused the last minute swing) - I'm saying that it is suspicious to cast suspicion on people without good reason. Third: I didn't bring this piece of information up since I wanted to see how Alderan, and others would respond to my case and his defense. If you look at his PBPA on Choco and read where the quotes come from in Choco's filter, you will realize that the quotes are not chronological (the 3rd quote is actually written before the 1st and 2nd quotes). This is why my suspicion remains on him - removing time stamps so people won't instantly be able to realize it to build a misleading case and cast suspicion on Choco. At best this is a biased townie who built the case with the mindset of proving that Choco is mafia. Was it an honest mistake? Maybe, but if we spend the whole game excusing potentially intentionally poor play by saying it is a newbie game we won't ever get anywhere.
Stance on gumshoeShow nested quote +On March 01 2012 00:07 gumshoe wrote:
Whats wrong with trying to deduce motive? Please, if you guys have something better to say I am all ears, why is it pointless to discuss motive? This is our space, were supposed to feel comfterble here to talk as we please, the mafia are the ones who are unwelcome. As to the discussion revolving around the N1 Janaan kill - Phagga put it best himself: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 00:23 phagga wrote:
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
It is discussion that is inconclusive. We can try to guess what the mafia were thinking, but that is all it will amount to. A guess. Even if we discussed it over and come to a consensus, it is still at best conjecture that isn't strong enough to help find and lynch mafia. The reason why we should stop talking about it, is that it allows an easy avenue for mafia to contribute, because its ultimately meaningless - they don't fear saying anything condemning because everyone doing is just guessing and no one is going to be called out on a guess. I don't like gumshoe right now for two reasons: 1) Is the obviously weak accusations he is flinging at me. For someone who is obviously against the use of meta Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 00:15 gumshoe wrote:
Now unless you want invole the m word(i dare you to say it) theres not much all to discuss about the matter. Any other questions? his sole suspicion of me revolves around meta. I've clearly explained the intentional change in my playstyle, and he tries casting suspicion on me, and getting others to do it for him. Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 15:11 gumshoe wrote:
DYH think about it from scums perspective, alderaan is one of the biggest players, his primary suspicion happens to be a town, what better way to throw doubt on Alderaan?
Personally I think we should just look back at the people who were trying to build cases against alderaan.
a few come to mind, one in particular has been acting strange all game, you might know him, after all, he killed you in a past life.
Not only is it suspicious for him to do this, I have to divert attention and time addressing this each time so people don't start thinking like him and start ignoring my cases and discussion points, and it is really hindering my ability to generate quality posts. 2) His fixation on Zelblade basically built a case while I was writing up this post. Will read over it and Alderan's response when I have time during the latter part of the day. Sloosh this is getting repetitive.... - You say I'm just defending myself and that's where I'm generating content. If I'm correct I have posted more player analysis than anyone in this thread. Just because they are not "Super long, one post a day posts" (that I did last game when I was scum; that you are doing now) doesn't mean I'm not generating content. - I didn't remove the stamps, it's just much easier to copy and paste and then add quote brackets. They are out of order because the post was not set up chronologically but topically. I wanted to put all the posts on lynching lurkers together, and then I wanted to talk about his lynch deadline availability. - I don't know how you can call me a biased towny, I've said multiple times that my Chocolate case was not that strong, I've taken into account other's input, and I've posted new cases to see what others thought about it. This is how you scum hunt, and it's also the best way to maximize reactions of the town for more reads. Any other questions?
After reading zelblade's third party advice, it does seem like I think you are suspicious for not playing to a certain degree of aptitiude that I expect from you. It may just be our paranoias playing off of each other from the previous game, and I really do want to avoid a tunneling mentality.
The intent of that last post was not to implicate you, but to explain my reasoning, correct what I thought was illogical thinking, and update my current reads.
On that note, I've read over zelblade's analysis of gumshoe and find myself agreeing with him for the most part. It really messes with my read when he actively looks for a replacement / encourages others to lynch him, but as testsubject893 has pointed out, maybe it should not be considered as an alignment tell as either party could do that.
Now aside from all that stuff, I have a huge problem with his last post:
On March 01 2012 04:00 gumshoe wrote:
Seeing as there is no going back now I will address every point against me,
first off in terms of my accusation against sloosh, it was founded on a similar basis as to the one now up against me, that sloosh's behavior has changed drastically since last game just as you believe mine has, I never considered that strong enough evidence to lynch sloosh, I wanted to find someone associated with him and lynch that individual, if that person flipped scum, I would have a basis against sloosh, if that person flipped green I would back off, at the time that person was ghost, but since that point in the game I have lost most of my suspicion against ghost, reason being that ghost seems to care about his image and has criteria as to when he should drop his suspicions. Now the only persons who seem connected to sloosh are those accusing him, one of which is me and another is Alderaan, so I am content for the time being to put aside my suspicion of him and pursue the lynch of a lurker so that we can limit our casualties.
Also zell blade I would rather you never have stated that information at all, nothing good can ever come from discussing non hit night actions.
He advocates a lynch on an individual associated with me (independent of how scummy he thinks the player is likely to be), to gain information on my alignment. I really don't know how he couldn't have thought this one through - he is willing to trade a player (townie or not it doesn't seem like he cares) for more information (we lynch to rid mafia, not for info) so he can build a case against me (on whom he has suspicions solely on meta).
Couple this with his insistence on discussing the night action and dangerous discussion revolving around blues, distracting town from focusing on generating useful content and finding mafia and allowing them an avenue to "contribute"
My preliminary vote is cast:
##Vote: gumshoe
|
P.S.
zelblade you forgot to put the vote in the vote thread
|
I'm digging through filters atm, but something I want to throw out there while I'm working on cases is a general view on how yesterday developed. When I look at yesterday, I see a lot of parallels between it and SNMM7. The main things being that there were a few cases that did not convince a majority, general confusion going into the deadline, and the threat of a no-lynch (in our case the threat became real).
In a very general sense I think that we can draw a few bits of information out of this. The first is that it is pretty safe to assume that the mafia spread their votes over multiple people. This was something Alderan made a point of when he was scum in SNMM7. And it makes sense, without an overwhelming bandwagon, of course scum are going to split their votes up.
The second thing is that because we were so desperate for cases and content to debate over, I bet that there are at least 2 mafia that spent most of day1 just skating by. Either lurking, playing very safe, or following others' lead.
Lastly, I'm looking for players who were trying to nudge others into action. With how yesterday developed I think that just like SNMM7, the town was often heading in the wrong direction. Because of this, I think that at least a few of the mafia spent their time nudging townies further down the path of their incorrect reads.
It is time we provide large, convincing cases against people. Cases that you feel passionate about, and will create real debate. Lets go to work people.
|
Chocolate, ghost_403 and nttea, please start posting when possible.
It is really disconcerting that the main cases / lurker of D1 should fade away once the spotlight has been taken off them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
