The important facts of how the endgame played out.

1. JayJay and I are the only 2 scum left starting on day 5.
2. JayJay used his DT ability on Bill Murry that night and found out that he was a cult recruiter and informed me of that.

*at that moment, I, having play'd with cults before, began to completely play with the mindset of winning as a cultist.

3. I sent a PM to BM saying that I wanted some punch basically, he recruits me right then.

At this point, the game is as follows:
Liquid`Sheth
Bill Murray
Ciryandor
Jayjay54
Nisani201
vaderseven
Bluelightz

4. With myself being recruited, the cult now knew the alignment of every single player left in the game.
5. I knew JayJay had potentionally 2 KP because of his role so I began a very long a elaborite set of lies to him. I claimed cult to him and said I was sorry for joining. I set him up so he would believe he had found a way to still win as scum. I told him dont worry I'll make the cult recruit you. You can still win etc etc!
6. The next day, I PMed him and informed him that if BM dies (remember he knows thats the recruiter), another cultist takes up the role and he therefor can not win as scum. I instructed him to change his vote to Bluelightz and to not roleblock BM on the next night.

Now when I PM'd BM asking to be cult I assumed there would be 4 total cultists including myself. The fact that his role specificly stated that recruiting mafia didn't kill them (not a killer cult) led me to believe that no matter what my chance of winning was highest on the cult side.

If BM had recruited JJ the game would have ended the next night and I would have been at the mercy of the cult. If BM didn't recruit me or JJ and we killed a townie instead of the mafia, we would be left with 4 cult and JJ and I left. At that point the cult controls the game and I lose control over the ability to win.

The lesson from all this is if you ever learn of a cult (especially a BP recruiter) and you are the scum, you should begin playing to win as cult that second no matter what. Yes its not fool proof, but your chance of winning is SIGNIFICANTLY higher if you do so.

@JayJay- Sorry to play you. I was playing to win 100%. I haven't had to lie like that in a mafia game in a very long time, I felt like a bad person. I 100% didn't really care about you winning... I was doing the set of actions that had the greatest chance to create the situation in which I was most likely to end the game on a winning team. FYI, if BM had died, there was no other recruiter. This wouldn't have really mattered if there was 4 players on the cult but kinda mattered because there was only 3 (including myself).

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 13 2012 22:20 GMT

#1950

About the play leading up to when JJ informed me that BM was a recruiter-

Me and JJ are a fucking sick scum team that was leading the game around on useless chases both in and out of the thread. Amazingly fun to be a dito that can copy unlyncable/BP role and then proceed to make the town waste a lynch to prove that Im town (when Im not).

The strongest scum play is that which hinges on so many true statements. This game allowed me to abuse that to the fullest!

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 13 2012 22:24 GMT

#1951

Also sheth is bad at everything including mafia.

<3 sheth hes my hero!

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 13 2012 22:26 GMT

#1953

On March 14 2012 07:24 Nisani201 wrote:
I just read through the QT. Jayjay played very smart. I shouldn't have trusted him so easily.

Ya he played you really well. He basically made it so I could stay out of PM land for the most part.

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 14 2012 17:19 GMT

#1968

Sheth told you there was a second recruiter as wrll? Damnnnnn. Good shit by sheth.

Seriously dont get mad at me. I tried to find palmar or kurmi to talk to about the fine print of playing to win vs playing to win for your current win con and couldnt find them. With the game moving along I needed to commit to one or the other.

Cults are often not used in games because they are a bit op and they change win cons. There is no way you should ever fault someone for deciding to pla to win overall. When I say play you I mean lie to you. I engaged in very long talks with you with the intention of lieing... thats all I mean by that phrase. I think I accomplished my goals in playing you because the last day and night of the played out exactly as I told you and the cult I wanted it to.

JJ, keep in mind, it would b accurate to say that there being a cult alone made this a bastard game. I winch at the tone of post game anger. You kinda implied I cheated. If you are saying so please take into account I have 7 (i think) previous games with a cult in them... of which 7 games were by cult even after horrible play on the cults side. The fact that there was a living cult recruiter at that point in the game made thier chances of victory extremely high. This puts into conflict play to win vs play for your CURRENT win con. The op clearly states play for your win con with no regaurd for time. I choose to see thha as the allowed option to do what I did. All I did was PM bm with a subject of bank asking if he was drinking punch. I in no way play against my current win con at that time by say outin that im scum or you are scum.

Tl;dr

Dont be mad about me playing to win.

Keep in mind that if cult recruited you, or me that night things would have played out the exact same way. If there was a 2-1-1 situation the game becomes a semi trigger finger event and well, I have strong feelings about that as well. The last game I was ended as a trigger finger game and it was lame. I am actuallly planning making a post about that because it something tl needs to discuss. I did not see playing for that situation as a reliable way to win.

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 14 2012 17:26 GMT

#1971

You were ment to have a scum reas on me. I had coppied the bp unlynchable role and wanted to draw anti scum kp.

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 14 2012 17:27 GMT

#1972

BM the night you recruited me, who would you have recruites had I not PMd you indicating I knew you are cult?

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 14 2012 18:11 GMT

#1980

They surviving means everybody wins. Check the spreadsheet out.

If forumite had ever gotten the kids then only the winning team would have won.

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 14 2012 18:12 GMT

#1981

On March 15 2012 02:39 Jayjay54 wrote:

Show nested quote +

rooooooooleblock

To be honest, I didn't trust that you would follow through as I didn't know your experience level with cults.

CULTS MAKE YOU NOT TRUST YOUR TEAM.

Don't get mad about that.

vaderseven

United States2556 Posts

March 14 2012 18:17 GMT

#1983

Not even well? Come on.

The game played out to the T exactly I intended it to from the second I PM BM. You really think that I deserved to be labeled as a cheater for this:

To: Bill Murray [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Bank
Date: 3/10/12 11:26
I heard that you are making punch.

I'm going to drop the conversation now as I haven't convinced you that you shouldn't be mad and you haven't convinced me that you should be mad. I take offense at you saying that I didn't read the OP and cheated or that I read the OP and cheated. I am deeply sorry that my actions have made you feel these things yet I fully stand by my actions as I feel they in fact did none of these things.

I can talk about bad play vs good play and own to when I have played sub par but I take offense when someone says I cheated because I put alot of time into this game from start to finish and I in no way was trying to cheat the system.