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On February 20 2012 11:32 DoYouHas wrote:
My town reads are: trackd00r, ET, gumshoe, slOosh, and blae000.
This leaves a pool of 8 people in which I think all mafia are present. That is where I am looking now, and that is who I am building cases on.
WOW. Lynch him NOW.
15 players to start. 1 lynched, 1 shot. That leaves 13 players.
He posts 5 town reads, and concludes all mafia in the remaining 8 people, of which he is one.
Don't even wait for his case. Lynch him.
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On February 20 2012 11:55 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe's respond to my concerns about WIFOM & jaj is actually pretty dam logical. Gumshoe should not be lynched today. He's putting in a lot of effort; when scum do wild, crazy plans, they do so to try and make it seem like they are being constructive and such. Gumshoe actually IS putting in a lot of effort.
Mattchew, you sound A LOT like you did in Werewolves, and not at all like you sounded in TL Mafia L. Have you simply shifted your style, or are you scum?
I can't comment on ongoing games i dont think so its kinda unfair to bring that up. I do have a response to this. I am playing different then mafia L because this crowd is much less intimidating and much smaller.
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I just got back from a rather exhausting shift at work, and I'm not really in the mood to get back into the rough and tumble.
I see that no one has brought up my case against Alderan, who apparently isn't even on anyone else's radar: There have been no references to him in the last 2 pages, and the ones before that all come from people putting him on a town list. This, incidentally, is why I think town lists are terrible, because if you're wrong, you're giving that player a blank check, and if you're right, then the mafia have a better choice of targets. He said that he'd be back by 7-8 EST, so he should have had a few hours now to respond by now. And he hasn't.
I'm personally perplexed by how people think I'm the most scummy here. We have among us lurkers (Alderan and blae000, who for what it's worth is getting replaced anyways), admitted liars (gumshoe), and players who still haven't explained their actions (Mattchew). I've been trying to play an honest and accountable game, but the major cases against me (EchelonTee, DYH) point at ulterior motives (not having a "town perspective," and not directly addressing a case that I felt had no merit, respectively). The frustrating part of all of this is that, by accusing my intentions and not my actions, you're leaving me with no way to convince you otherwise.
I'm really not sure where to go from here. I have a solid read on Alderan as mafia, but if no one's even going to consider what I've been saying, then I'm going to stop wasting your time. Hopefully, my mislynch will be enough to convince you that you've been going about this the wrong way all along.
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I'm not sold on the logic of the Midnight read, but I'm not going to go after you anymore based on just a bad read.
Janaan I'm still pretty suspicious of. But we got like 5 cases going at the moment. I'm going to hold back anything on him until it's solid. Best to focus on suspects we have without muddling the discussion up more. We definitely need an advance deadline because the level of activity here is going to make reaching a majority at the last second hard.
For now I'm mainly just trying to sort out the DYH and SloOsh cases.
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On February 20 2012 12:06 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 11:55 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe's respond to my concerns about WIFOM & jaj is actually pretty dam logical. Gumshoe should not be lynched today. He's putting in a lot of effort; when scum do wild, crazy plans, they do so to try and make it seem like they are being constructive and such. Gumshoe actually IS putting in a lot of effort.
Mattchew, you sound A LOT like you did in Werewolves, and not at all like you sounded in TL Mafia L. Have you simply shifted your style, or are you scum? I can't comment on ongoing games i dont think so its kinda unfair to bring that up. I do have a response to this. I am playing different then mafia L because this crowd is much less intimidating and much smaller.
Hmm... I don't know, in L you were more vocal, and your Mason-Mayor plan was pretty flashy. In this game, with less intimidating/less people, it would be a lot easier for you to speak your mind clearly, without being all lurky and posting in a short way.
Are we allowed to discuss Mattchew's previous, on-going game, Werewolves II, since he has already died in that game, or is this against the rules?
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On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote:
I'm really not sure where to go from here.
You go and put your vote on DYH.
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On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote:
I'm really not sure where to go from here. I have a solid read on Alderan as mafia, but if no one's even going to consider what I've been saying, then I'm going to stop wasting your time. Hopefully, my mislynch will be enough to convince you that you've been going about this the wrong way all along.
.....man I hope to god I'm not WIFOM-ing myself out of going after you. DYH's attack on you makes me like him less.
Blae was going to be on my scum list, but since he was getting replaced I figured I'd let his new guy post more. I'll look into Alderan, I don't know how I missed him. Probably because he was lurking.
By the end of the first 24 hour period (we have roughly 21 hours until then), everyone should post who they want to vote. Anyone who doesn't is hurting town, putting it into the same position as we were in D1.
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Got back recently from evening church, I'll be catching up, and post my thoughts on possible lynches for today shortly.
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i changed my mind. midnight and gum are both bad lynches. gumshoe after more reading is trying really hard and is pro-town. midnight i am skeptical of but is not as good a lynch as doyouhas.
i am almost caught up on reading the thread / filters.
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I think it's time I have to catch the thread again.
Personally, I'm not convinced with MidnightGladius case. I don't agree with the reasoning that jaj and ET gave. I'm not going to get into details about that, since we need to focus in other targets that don't create chaos.
Alderan is lurking quite heavily now. And I need to say it. He has been one of the least contributors in this game so far. I have the feeling that he is just watching the thread, and watching us bash each other.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 02:01 Alderan wrote:Hi guys, excited to get started. Ok so here are just my thoughts as I read through the thread (going to be pretty peacemeal as I catch up): As for my experience, most recently I played in SNMMIV as scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232826And before that I played a Vanilla towny in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500. I've also read a couple games all the way through I see that next we entered the obligatory Lurker Lynch policy discussion so I will throw in my $.02. We need to approach this in a way where lurkers know they will get lynched if they do not post. Our philosophy should be that someone who is blatantly lurking WILL get lynched unless of these 2 situations happens. 1. Adequate involvement from everyone. I have seen town get so focused on lynching a lurker that when that person becomes active the bandwagon has already started rolling so fast downhill that there's no stopping it. That person ends up being town more often than not. 2. There is an obvious scum slip or we can identify someone almost assuredly as scum. Let's make sure we don't hit a blue in our insistence on lynching someone day 1, if the obvious choice is not there, it's not there. That will be decided much closer to the end of the voting period though. Stay diligent. This poll is comical. I still fail to see the reasoning behind it. While discussion is good, let's not go round and round about that, almost no substantive value to be had. More worrisome than the poll is how quick to the gun ET was. Without formally FoSing, in my opinion you have already semi-accused DoYouHaas, Sloosh, and gumshoe. Do you stand any of these at all? If so which is the most scummy? I don't like it, and by it I mean blasting away with the accuse cannon nonstop. We need to hear from Mannerkiss again definitely. Gumshoe you're absolutely correct about Midnight Gladius's ratio post. What is the easiest way to "contribute" without actually contributing anything thats not common knowledge? Speculate about the setup/discuss the ratios and KP, and inactive lists. Those things are not inherently scummy, but they must be followed up with additional contributions.
This first reminded me a lot of Zarepath's first post in NMM3, where he turned to be scum. Starts off with a fluffy hypothetical talk about what happens if X situation occurs. Then it goes on and makes the obvious remarks: The poll, ET vs sloosh and calling out manner kiss. Notice how he is just checking the thread.
Then his next 2 posts are about gumshoe. Nothing really worthy to add to the discussion.
Then it goes this case against Dimmu. It's ok, a lurker, everyone can be suspicious about (even I did). But that's not the point. I would've expected to vote him right away to put some pressure. Instead he just waited to other chaos to set in to cast his vote, when everyone was having different suspicions in other people.
He addresses other players in a very shallow way. His opinions to ET and gum were very light IMO. If you think that just writing a case in the easiest case and posting everyone 5-6 hours is going to work, you are wrong.
What do you think about the MidnightGladius case? Or DoYouHas'?
FOS: Alderan
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You are tunneling me incredibly hard slOosh, and I am legitimately worried that you are going to get your way, especially since I have stopped pressuring you. If that happens, you are going to get your own Simberto moment. Take a deep breath, step back, and refocus. Don't get timid just because you were wrong about me.
P.S. I seriously loled when you pointed out my fail counting. I didn't even realize that I was off until you spoke up.
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On February 20 2012 12:23 DoYouHas wrote:
You are tunneling me incredibly hard slOosh, and I am legitimately worried that you are going to get your way, especially since I have stopped pressuring you. If that happens, you are going to get your own Simberto moment. Take a deep breath, step back, and refocus. Don't get timid just because you were wrong about me.
P.S. I seriously loled when you pointed out my fail counting. I didn't even realize that I was off until you spoke up.
he did the same thing in newbie but it wasn't tunneling it was leading the town to vote the right way
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I'll be going to bed and then work. Be back around 24-25 hours before deadline to make a vote. If anybody online has last minute comments they want to send my way, please do.
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EBWODP
In like the next 5 minutes I mean
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On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote:
I just got back from a rather exhausting shift at work, and I'm not really in the mood to get back into the rough and tumble.
I see that no one has brought up my case against Alderan, who apparently isn't even on anyone else's radar: There have been no references to him in the last 2 pages, and the ones before that all come from people putting him on a town list. This, incidentally, is why I think town lists are terrible, because if you're wrong, you're giving that player a blank check, and if you're right, then the mafia have a better choice of targets. He said that he'd be back by 7-8 EST, so he should have had a few hours now to respond by now. And he hasn't.
I'm personally perplexed by how people think I'm the most scummy here. We have among us lurkers (Alderan and blae000, who for what it's worth is getting replaced anyways), admitted liars (gumshoe), and players who still haven't explained their actions (Mattchew). I've been trying to play an honest and accountable game, but the major cases against me (EchelonTee, DYH) point at ulterior motives (not having a "town perspective," and not directly addressing a case that I felt had no merit, respectively). The frustrating part of all of this is that, by accusing my intentions and not my actions, you're leaving me with no way to convince you otherwise.
I'm really not sure where to go from here. I have a solid read on Alderan as mafia, but if no one's even going to consider what I've been saying, then I'm going to stop wasting your time. Hopefully, my mislynch will be enough to convince you that you've been going about this the wrong way all along.
I...believe you. Your right, all you've done is play a safe game, I'm just biased against you for accusing me and I apologize for that, what can only sound to me like an honest plea has convinced far more than any case.
##Unvote: MidnightGladius
As for your case on Alderan, I agree with it, but I think right now accusing DYH will accomplish more because I cant see sloosh's beyond angry conviction as Scummy behaviour and killing DYH will answer so many goddam questions,
Furthermore I really feel that DYH hasn't as much addressed the accusations against himself as much as he's dropped his attack on Sloosh and taken it up against more obvious players, like you.
That said If both Sloosh and DYH are town and we lynch DYH and then lynch Sloosh because DYH came up green, we are that much closer too losing.
Midnight I'm willing to vote for alderaan and manner/Mitch. I'll follow your lead as to which one. Also I've sorta seen connections between Alderaan and DYH so if alderaan flips scum I think our vote on DYH will be much more consolidated.
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@TKHawkins
On February 20 2012 11:59 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 11:28 TKHawkins wrote:On February 20 2012 10:43 gumshoe wrote:
DYH what do you think of my argument about Jaj being the best pick due to his death leaving so many conflicts intact, and what do you think of Hawk? The reason I ask the first question is because I think you and sloosh might have to drop your fight and I think I have to stop attacking Steveling as well, because I feel like the mafia took care to leave these flimsy conflicts intact so they could continue to create chaos, thats why I think they killed jaj despite the fact that the case for him being blue was not 100 percent(though as I mentioned earlier it did seem pretty strong from my perspective). That is unless Jaj posed the biggest threat regardless and just had to die. Which do you think was the bigger reason? conflict preservation or threat elimination?
Oh and the second question about Hawk is just out of curiosity(SUSPICIOUS CURIOSITY!) That's the definition of WIFOM logic. Best not to over think it. As for your suspicions against me because I was against the Midnight vote. I couldn't get a good read on Midnight, and neither can a lot of people. The only people who did have a read on him were reading him as scum. That fact alone is odd and suspicious. I'm not sure Midnight is town, I'm just more comfortable following my own reads then blindly following somebody else's. Alright then, do you have any read at present? Are you still on either me or Janaan?
I asked you this last page.
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On February 20 2012 12:33 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote:
I just got back from a rather exhausting shift at work, and I'm not really in the mood to get back into the rough and tumble.
I see that no one has brought up my case against Alderan, who apparently isn't even on anyone else's radar: There have been no references to him in the last 2 pages, and the ones before that all come from people putting him on a town list. This, incidentally, is why I think town lists are terrible, because if you're wrong, you're giving that player a blank check, and if you're right, then the mafia have a better choice of targets. He said that he'd be back by 7-8 EST, so he should have had a few hours now to respond by now. And he hasn't.
I'm personally perplexed by how people think I'm the most scummy here. We have among us lurkers (Alderan and blae000, who for what it's worth is getting replaced anyways), admitted liars (gumshoe), and players who still haven't explained their actions (Mattchew). I've been trying to play an honest and accountable game, but the major cases against me (EchelonTee, DYH) point at ulterior motives (not having a "town perspective," and not directly addressing a case that I felt had no merit, respectively). The frustrating part of all of this is that, by accusing my intentions and not my actions, you're leaving me with no way to convince you otherwise.
I'm really not sure where to go from here. I have a solid read on Alderan as mafia, but if no one's even going to consider what I've been saying, then I'm going to stop wasting your time. Hopefully, my mislynch will be enough to convince you that you've been going about this the wrong way all along. I...believe you. Your right, all you've done is play a safe game, I'm just biased against you for accusing me and I apologize for that, what can only sound to me like an honest plea has convinced far more than any case. ##Unvote: MidnightGladiusAs for your case on Alderan, I agree with it, but I think right now accusing DYH will accomplish more because I cant see sloosh's beyond angry conviction as Scummy behaviour and killing DYH will answer so many goddam questions, Furthermore I really feel that DYH hasn't as much addressed the accusations against himself as much as he's dropped his attack on Sloosh and taken it up against more obvious players, like you. That said If both Sloosh and DYH are town and we lynch DYH and then lynch Sloosh because DYH came up green, we are that much closer too losing. Midnight I'm willing to vote for alderaan and manner/Mitch. I'll follow your lead as to which one. Also I've sorta seen connections between Alderaan and DYH so if alderaan flips scum I think our vote on DYH will be much more consolidated.
thank you for both proving my previous post about the 2 of you true. lets go get the real scum
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And... I posted this in response
On February 20 2012 12:08 TKHawkins wrote:
I'm not sold on the logic of the Midnight read, but I'm not going to go after you anymore based on just a bad read.
Janaan I'm still pretty suspicious of. But we got like 5 cases going at the moment. I'm going to hold back anything on him until it's solid. Best to focus on suspects we have without muddling the discussion up more. We definitely need an advance deadline because the level of activity here is going to make reaching a majority at the last second hard.
For now I'm mainly just trying to sort out the DYH and SloOsh cases.
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On February 20 2012 12:23 trackd00r wrote:I think it's time I have to catch the thread again. Personally, I'm not convinced with MidnightGladius case. I don't agree with the reasoning that jaj and ET gave. I'm not going to get into details about that, since we need to focus in other targets that don't create chaos. Alderan is lurking quite heavily now. And I need to say it. He has been one of the least contributors in this game so far. I have the feeling that he is just watching the thread, and watching us bash each other. + Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 02:01 Alderan wrote:Hi guys, excited to get started. Ok so here are just my thoughts as I read through the thread (going to be pretty peacemeal as I catch up): As for my experience, most recently I played in SNMMIV as scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232826And before that I played a Vanilla towny in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500. I've also read a couple games all the way through I see that next we entered the obligatory Lurker Lynch policy discussion so I will throw in my $.02. We need to approach this in a way where lurkers know they will get lynched if they do not post. Our philosophy should be that someone who is blatantly lurking WILL get lynched unless of these 2 situations happens. 1. Adequate involvement from everyone. I have seen town get so focused on lynching a lurker that when that person becomes active the bandwagon has already started rolling so fast downhill that there's no stopping it. That person ends up being town more often than not. 2. There is an obvious scum slip or we can identify someone almost assuredly as scum. Let's make sure we don't hit a blue in our insistence on lynching someone day 1, if the obvious choice is not there, it's not there. That will be decided much closer to the end of the voting period though. Stay diligent. This poll is comical. I still fail to see the reasoning behind it. While discussion is good, let's not go round and round about that, almost no substantive value to be had. More worrisome than the poll is how quick to the gun ET was. Without formally FoSing, in my opinion you have already semi-accused DoYouHaas, Sloosh, and gumshoe. Do you stand any of these at all? If so which is the most scummy? I don't like it, and by it I mean blasting away with the accuse cannon nonstop. We need to hear from Mannerkiss again definitely. Gumshoe you're absolutely correct about Midnight Gladius's ratio post. What is the easiest way to "contribute" without actually contributing anything thats not common knowledge? Speculate about the setup/discuss the ratios and KP, and inactive lists. Those things are not inherently scummy, but they must be followed up with additional contributions. This first reminded me a lot of Zarepath's first post in NMM3, where he turned to be scum. Starts off with a fluffy hypothetical talk about what happens if X situation occurs. Then it goes on and makes the obvious remarks: The poll, ET vs sloosh and calling out manner kiss. Notice how he is just checking the thread. Then his next 2 posts are about gumshoe. Nothing really worthy to add to the discussion. Then it goes this case against Dimmu. It's ok, a lurker, everyone can be suspicious about (even I did). But that's not the point. I would've expected to vote him right away to put some pressure. Instead he just waited to other chaos to set in to cast his vote, when everyone was having different suspicions in other people. He addresses other players in a very shallow way. His opinions to ET and gum were very light IMO. If you think that just writing a case in the easiest case and posting everyone 5-6 hours is going to work, you are wrong. What do you think about the MidnightGladius case? Or DoYouHas'? FOS: Alderan
Trakdoor whats your opinion on janaan?
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EPT
