Resistance 2 - Tunnel Rats

On February 15 2012 03:28 Blazinghand wrote:


Just as a pre-emptive meta note, I'm deliberately going to work on not spamming this game. I'm still going to be highly active, but having 30 pages of filter in a 150 page game with 18 players is not gonna happen this time around. I consider this important to improving my game, especially given how I played in the last Resistance game. So if someone's like "Blazinghand isn't spamming, he must be scum" I want you to bear in mind that I'm not spamming either way this game.

*everyone breathes a sigh of relief*

On February 15 2012 01:11 Dirkzor wrote:


Haha... You did seem rather clueless last time =)

On February 16 2012 09:16 Forumite wrote:

Unkillable VisceraEyes? Imba!

On February 16 2012 08:01 Blazinghand wrote:


Believe it or not, that was not the first time I have dicked over Radfield when we were both town ;_;

EDIT: Also, both this and Sleeper Cell Mafia are unique insofar as limited scum communication. It makes things pretty fun.

On February 19 2012 18:56 Dirkzor wrote:
Yay... We're going to blow up that anniversary!

Since we don't have a team up yet it's hard to discuss whether its a good or a bad team (also because we have had no discussion). So why the nay vote? O_o Considering that everyone will be town in their own eyes the best team you can possible get right now is one where you yourself are on since you know your own alignment.

I would likely support any team with me on it as it guarentees 1/3 town right there.

Any team that fails the mission the person who suggested the team should automaticly be under suspicion, even if the team is without that person (or perhaps especially so).

Your point about Nay voting every team until you can make your own team are bad. I agree it would be smart to be teamleader so you are sure that no scum are the leader but we will never get a mission going if everyone thinks like that.

On February 20 2012 00:49 prplhz wrote:
Hi guys

I'm just a regular townie, nothing to worry about here. As such, I should be on night1 team.

On February 19 2012 19:21 Blazinghand wrote:

That being said, unless I see a team I like, I'm just gonna "nay" everyone until it's my turn to suggest a team, since that's the only way I can know 100% that the guy setting up the team isn't scum. When you make your team, make a good case for it. I hope to see Navillus in the thread pushing his ideas, getting reads and stuff before committing to a team. A baseless team suggestion will have well earned my Nay vote.

Furthermore, the deadline is a little flexible since we will be going through several rounds of team suggesting / rejecting / argumentation today (probably).

On February 20 2012 04:12 Blazinghand wrote:

Well, we learn how many scum there are minimum on that team. Scum can hold fire on their sabotages, which is what they will try do if there are multiple scum on the same team.

OK so you need to think about the setup more. Having played previously in Resistance I, let me tell you that having a single sabotage on D1 is actually kind of confusing, since there's no way to tell which player was mafia. In that game, the saboteur ended up being picked up for the D2 team as well, due to some phenomenally bad play on my part ;_; The point is though our ideal D1 team is 3 town for sure. 1 scum doesn't give us any info, but 0 scum means that the other 3 MUST be among the 6 who weren't picked for the D1 team, which is an enormous amount of info.

I expect every leader to suggest a team that he believes contains exactly 0 scum players.

On February 20 2012 06:06 Dirkzor wrote:
Lets say the day 2 team complete the mission. Why would i change that team for day 3 - even if i was not included in the day 2 team?

On February 20 2012 06:21 Blazinghand wrote:


Yeah, but Dirkzor's point is "I think that if such a team fails it's the fault of the guy who picked it, we should be suspicious of him" and I'm not sure that's the case. Obviously we should be suspicious but like if something's a reasonable choice anyone would make (as in that particular instance) then dirk is wrong

On February 21 2012 09:14 Blazinghand wrote:
I really don't like that Navillus hasn't done anything useful and didn't commit to a team. Like, way to not suggest a team dude, are you trying to dodge scrutiny or what

I'm not a fan of the "assume Palmar is town because he isn't playing like dick" given that he fooled me all Resistance I-- Palmar is perfectly capable of playing a fine scum, at least in this setup. I'm going to wait and see what kind of team he suggests before committing to a vote.

On February 21 2012 09:19 VisceraEyes wrote:


"Palmar not playing like a dick" doesn't really factor into it, at least not for me. But, like you, I'm reserving judgement until he officially suggests his team. It's easy to say "I'm thinking A, B and C for a team" and actually put forth X, Y and Z, ya know?

On February 21 2012 09:14 Blazinghand wrote:
I really don't like that Navillus hasn't done anything useful and didn't commit to a team. Like, way to not suggest a team dude, are you trying to dodge scrutiny or what

I'm not a fan of the "assume Palmar is town because he isn't playing like dick" given that he fooled me all Resistance I-- Palmar is perfectly capable of playing a fine scum, at least in this setup. I'm going to wait and see what kind of team he suggests before committing to a vote.

On February 21 2012 18:56 Dirkzor wrote:
Lol palmar. I was actaully thinking the same about navillus. Also because he would be easy to "kill" for mafia to just attack him relentlessly due to the fact that he did not put up a team.

I like the Dirkzor/Navillus part. I'm not sure about you yet though.

On February 21 2012 18:59 Blazinghand wrote:
I think in your position I'd want to bring the two most town players with me, and Navillus is not one of the two most town players. you setting up a fall guy for when your team fails? Or are you just dumb

On February 21 2012 19:47 Palmar wrote:
So what does this make me? Sadly you can't really tell much about my alignment even if my picks are good, because it makes sense for scum to pick two townies to join on the mission.

so it's either or. It makes no sense to say navillus is bad choice and thus I'm scum. Either navillus is bad choice (scum) and I'm a bad townie, or navillus is good choice and I'm scum, or the obvious and probably correct alternative Navillus is a good choice and I'm town.

Seeing as I think I've already convinced most people on TL I'm kind of good at this, you should as scum be pushing the idea that I'm scum, and thus the team can't be accepted. You can't say "Navillus looks bad, thus palmar is scum" because that makes no sense for a scum team to do. Due to the risk of town just not picking anyone from the first team if the first team fails.

So, which is it BH? Am I scum? or is navillus scum? You can't have it both ways.

On February 22 2012 02:44 Blazinghand wrote:

No that's literally retarded

On February 22 2012 02:42 Blazinghand wrote:
Sorry if I was ambiguous before, but that was before you made all these retarded arguments and town plans lol

On February 22 2012 02:45 Blazinghand wrote:


If you're not pushing them why are you suggesting all these crappy strats?

On February 22 2012 02:46 Blazinghand wrote:


YOU suggesting that you swap yourself out is retarded. you know your alignment.

On February 22 2012 02:47 Blazinghand wrote:


The "scum is worried about a total everyone swap" thing and the "hey let's just swap out palmar" thing that we're talking about. The former is dumb and the latter is dumb if you, Palmar, are town.

On February 22 2012 05:14 VisceraEyes wrote:


You're severely limiting town's options with this mindset - if everyone adopted it, there'd be no way to get a 5 person majority.

I don't like this post at all.

On February 22 2012 06:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah we had that discussion last Resistance. You're absolutely right, which is why selecting yourself for YOUR TEAM is optimal - but saying that you'll nay-vote any team that doesn't include you increases the odds of us not selecting a team in time, resulting in mission failure with NO information gained.

On February 22 2012 06:18 prplhz wrote:
@kitaman27 Are you saying that it's optimal town play to autonay any team that you are not on yourself?

On February 22 2012 06:19 Blazinghand wrote:


Apparently Palmar's plan is to send a D2 team if Dirk Navi +2, excluding himself if his team fails. I'm SURE this must be a misunderstanding, but I've asked him numerous times and he keeps on claiming that this is what we should do D2, which makes no sense.

On February 23 2012 01:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Man I shouldnt even be wasting my time on you. If you suggested a reasonable d1 team thatd be fine but these post-hoc suggestions earn you no cred with me, same as navi's

On February 23 2012 01:45 Palmar wrote:
No kita, you haven't done anything extremely towny, and I think you're not dumb. That is why I don't think you as town would be unaware of the fact mafia can't communicate, and thus you could be scum, trying to fake dumbness.

So which is it? Are you really that ignorant about the setup? Did you truly and honestly not know scum could not communicate during daytime?

On February 23 2012 02:13 Blazinghand wrote:


OR you intentionally PRETENDED not to see the small print in the OP. There's really know way for us to know which it was so this doesn't count as pro-town at all. It's just WIFOM.

On February 23 2012 02:05 Palmar wrote:
I just don't know what to think of your townplay. And for me personally, my reads generally rock early in the game, and start sucking later, which is why I see no reason to drag this on. And your logic is still dumb.

On December 26 2011 17:03 Blazinghand wrote:


Assuming truly random picks, there's a (2/3) chance of picking a townsperson each time, meaning that there's a (2/3)^3 chance of getting 3 townies, or 8/27-- pretty bad.

I think it's reasonable to select yourself as part of your group. If you are town, it would be very unreasonable for you not to select yourself at this phase in the game when there have been neither successful nor unsuccessful missions yet. To yourself, you are a confirmed townie. Then you face somewhat decent odds of picking out two townspeople to come with you.

I think it's unreasonable to assume that there is 1 mafia among Zona/Palmar/Radfield. there could easily be 2 or 0. But EVEN ASSUMMING the layout is "1 mafia in Zona/Palm/Rad, 1 mafia in Jack/Grey/VE, 1 mafia in Blaze/Truth/Toad", the correct answer isn't to pick one guy from each group...

Because you, Radfield, know your own alignment. If you really think that there is 1 mafia in Zona/Palm/Rad, you should actually take one of Zona/Palm along with you! This is because you personally have the information that you're town, and can therefore say (assuming, again, that there's some distribution like that) that one of Zona/Palm is town. Therefore, you pick one of Zona/Palm, and you only have one pick left, and so you just need one solid-read town pick to create the following situation:

Team: Radfield (yourself, who is confirmed town to you), plus Zona (for example), plus someone who gives off a solid town read like, say, Blazinghand. If the mission fails, you can reasonably say "well I think this was Zona" (though others will not be able to do so). The beauty of this though is, assuming you're right about the "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad", If your mission succeeds, you've pinned down a mafia member! (WIFOM alert: Mafia, knowing this, might intentionally not sabotage, etc).

Contrast taking a team like Radfield/VE/Toad, and a mission success-- Assuming your "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad" idea is correct, this doesn't give us any info on who that was. Same with a mission failure.

So, if you really think one of Zona/Rad/Palm is mafia, and you are very sure of this due to the high relative skills of these specific players you, being Rad and knowing your own alignment, are in a unique position to form a team that grants you information-- so your current metric for forming a team is flawed.

I will not grant you a pre-emptive vote based on your ideas for acting on your reasoned assumptions.

THAT BEING SAID,

I do NOT think it it safe to say that there is one and only one mafia among zona/rad/palm. It's certainly possible, but it's also possible that Forumite was like "well I think this is a newbie game so I'm gonna stack the deck in favor of town and make a bunch of crap players mafia like that Blazinghand punk", or maybe he was like "lol man these guys gonna get rolled so hard, Zona, Rad and Palm all gonna be my mafia lololololol"

So, I also do not grant you a pre-emptive vote based on the assumptions underlying your ideas. I will wait to see the team itself.

That being said, I would not be unwilling to vote for your team once you have constructed it, should I determine it to be solid. I'm only pointing out that anyone who's thinking of pre-emptively yessing you (Truthbringer...) may want to put a wee bit more thought into it.

Just saying.

On February 25 2012 07:08 Blazinghand wrote:


I'm not sure I'd characterize my Resistance I town play as "good" but that's your perogative. I still think a VE/Sent/Dirk team is passable so we can roll with that if Dirk will suggest it.

On February 25 2012 07:20 Blazinghand wrote:
There's no response I can make against a statement with that level of certitude, since that is in fact a true statement. If you think I've been off with my reads or pushing scum teams, or have anything more convincing, please, send it my way and I'll do what I can to convince you.

On February 29 2012 08:28 Blazinghand wrote:
Although it's possible one of Palm/prplhz is innocent, I don't think it's the case for both of them. I don't like this team.

##vote nay

On February 25 2012 14:23 Dirkzor wrote:
I'm leaning Me/nav/palmar (lol)

can people get behind that? (I'm not posting the team yet as I want to reread some filters first.)

On February 25 2012 14:30 prplhz wrote:
Who is your scum team kitaman27?

On March 02 2012 12:23 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm just saying that Dirk being scum is unlikely (but not impossible) if Palmar is scum. He'd want to pick two town players on his D1 team almost certainly, even assuming he can coordinate who's sabotaging (which he definitely could). My interpretation of Palmar's team suggestion was this: Palmar is scum, and he suggested Dirk and Nav who he both knew was town. He suggested Dirk because he wanted to look like he was suggesting a team, and he suggested Nav to be a "fall guy" for when the team failed, making up some bad rationalization of "well scum would care about the game more". I just don't think it would be optimal play for a Palm/Dirk/X scumteam to put both Palm and Dirk on a team together like that with Nav.

On February 21 2012 18:54 Blazinghand wrote:
Sorry, can't deal with a Navillus team. He stopped by the thread a couple of times to ask questions and generally fail. The fact that he showed up after the deadline to offer a "team" and then immediately dipped up out is even more disconcerting, IMO. I really think you could have done better than Navillus. Much better.

I like Dirk. I'm not actually super pleased with you on the team either, especially if you think Navillus is somehow one of the three townest players in this game.

There are much better people you could have picked as man #3 for the team, like Kita or myself.

That being said, thank you for suggesting a team.

##Vote Palmar: Nay

On February 23 2012 05:49 Blazinghand wrote:
I don't like Dirk since his interaction with you (palmar). I don't like Navillus, period. Currently acceptable third members for a team with VE or Sent: Chaos13, BH. MAYBE PRPL but I don't really like him atm.

On March 03 2012 00:37 kitaman27 wrote:
Cool.

I'll nay a prpl team if he includes himself. We just passed through a team, why would we send one of the likely scum suspects when we have a chance at winning this? Just because it happens to be his turn for submission, doesn't mean that he we should settle for a less than ideal member. There is no longer a threat for a draw.

Obviously I would prefer myself to be the fourth member. I know palmar and prpl have been opposing me, but we don't need scum votes to pass it through. Just because they are outspoken against me, doesn't mean they've got the towns best interests in mind. I think there are enough players that we could pass this through.

I think its funny that blazing passed through the first successful team and everyone comes to the assumption that he is scum. If he submitted the team, why wouldn't he be added on as the fourth member? If I'm not able to be part of the team, then I think blazing makes the most sense.

On March 03 2012 03:29 Blazinghand wrote:


Ah yes you're right, there's no reasonable explanation for me changing my mind over the course of the 10 days between those posts, which included dozens of pages, several team submissions and votecounts, etc. Clearly this is scum behavior not somebody changing his mind based on new evidence.

On March 03 2012 06:11 Blazinghand wrote:
Oh hey look it's Scum Sent giving a Scum yayvote to his scum buddy Prpl

On March 03 2012 06:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


Please explain. At the moment, prplhz's logic is looking infinitely better than yours.

On March 05 2012 12:52 Blazinghand wrote:
Wow look at this kid dodge

On March 05 2012 18:04 Blazinghand wrote:
Look man you have to admit there is irrefutable evidence that I've caught the scumteam of you, Palm, and VE. You're just desperately trying to salvage things for a D3 team, but I'm not gonna let that happen. People will see reason.

On March 06 2012 08:01 Blazinghand wrote:


My logic was fine

On February 26 2012 02:50 chaos13 wrote:
Nayvoting. Guess why? Yeah, Dirkzor is on it again.

On March 06 2012 16:31 EchelonTee wrote:


I can only guess that chaos13 was townie

On March 07 2012 03:17 Dirkzor wrote:


Super Nay by me. /pat on my back

Was a really fun game. I like the mechanics of teamvoting and the small player pool. I enjoyed the "town" atmosphere in this game. I do agree that it took quite a long time day1 but that wasn't only the game mechanics. People we're painfully slow to put up teams and vote. We almost waited 24h every voting cycle.

/In for next one =)

Btw funny how spies won game 1 flawless and town won game 2 flawless.

GG and thx for hosting!

On March 07 2012 05:54 prplhz wrote:
I think this game would have been a little different if chaos13 had actually been around to push himself as town. He could have tried to be the 5th man for the circle of 4 instead of VisceraEyes which would have been a really good scenario for scum. A chaos13/Palmar/Navilus team, or something like that, passed on chaos13/Palmar/Dirkzor/navilus/prplhz votes would have been awesome for spies.

Resistance is really a game in which there is not very far from victory to defeat for either side.

I don't really think that Navilus played spectacularly or anything Blazinghand and kita really got screwed over this game by that and by how chaos13 wasn't able to be as active as he ideally could have been.

On March 08 2012 18:15 Palmar wrote:
I don't think we should give up on the setup or implement scum communication just yet, remember, the last game was a steamroll in the other direction, we don't have sufficient data to call the setup unbalanced yet.