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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On January 27 2012 22:58 Refallen wrote:
Zeph, don't you agree that Navi is defending Rad pretty hard? If you're voting for him, shouldnt you be suspicious of Rad too?
You should be careful making those kinds of claims refallen. Mafia defend townies all the time. Judge a player on his own actions, not on someone elses actions.
That being said, I don't think we want to lynch Navillus right now.
Lanaia, you need to contribute wayyy more. Meapak has also disappeared.
I'm still ok lynching Bum at this point.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
What new terminology did I invent?
What hidden message did I send to my supposed scum teammates?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
The more I think about this Jackal, the more I think you're being deliberately obtuse. You've slowly been ramping up to this point(that I must be scum), yet with no reason to do so.
You're stating that I'm am absolutely scum, when there is basically zero reason for you to think that. You are also deliberately refusing to adequately explain yourself, because that would show your entire point to be invalid.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I was town.... 
Hosts have been nice to me, I haven't actually been scum for ages.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Lynching lurkers is not a strat I normally agree with, but it seems quite a bit more viable(Day1) in this setup(given that we can't effectively trace mafia votes Day 1)
Lanaia fits the lurker bill, but unfortunately I see a fair bit of similarity between this game and XLVIII where she was also town(and did very little early on).
Meapak also fits the lurker bill, buts here's the thing. If Meapak is scum, he was doing one of a few things with his posts. A) He picked out a quick pro-town read on me, and tried to sabotage my cred or get me lynched(ballsy and unlikely). B) Picked out a scum read on me and tried to bus me to gain town cred(unlikely). C) Ignored my potential alignment and just went all out in an effort to build scum-hunting effort credentials(likely).
Or alternatively he is town and saw what he thought was a player trying to communicate with his scum buddies(most likely).
Right now a large amount of people fall into the questionable zone of medium-low activity/content, but it's hard to parse that group.
At any rate, I like our pace and direction right now and I'm willing to vote Lanaia.
On January 28 2012 01:49 Jackal58 wrote:
In what way am I being obtuse?
In what way is assigning varying degrees of scumminess useful?
In what way have I not adequately explained myself?
You're scum. Die.
You're either being obtuse by refusing to explain to me why you think I am scum, or I suppose I am obtuse for failing to understand where you have laid out your problems.
Assigning varying degrees of scumminess is ALWAYS useful. It happens every game, and I don't understand how you can object to it. Lets say I have 4 players I think are scum, obviously I don't think they are equally likely to be scum. They all have degrees of scumminess, and I'm going to indicate that when I post my reads. What are you even arguing here?
Can someone else please explain to me what Jackal is objecting to, because I really don't see it(or understand it).
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On January 28 2012 04:17 bumatlarge wrote:Lanaia is always wishy washy. Every game regardless of alignment. Nice try to everyone stuffing their vote on her, but she should not be the lynch. I'd definitely lynch radfield over her. I don't have a proper read on navillus or cwave, but I have no problem lynching them. Show nested quote +Meapak also fits the lurker bill, buts here's the thing. If Meapak is scum, he was doing one of a few things with his posts. A) He picked out a quick pro-town read on me, and tried to sabotage my cred or get me lynched(ballsy and unlikely). B) Picked out a scum read on me and tried to bus me to gain town cred(unlikely). C) Ignored my potential alignment and just went all out in an effort to build scum-hunting effort credentials(likely).
Or alternatively he is town and saw what he thought was a player trying to communicate with his scum buddies(most likely) And how is this not a direct contradiction of what you said not to do. You are essentially calling him town here. One strike too many. ##Vote: Radfield
Radfield, under the combined weight of ignorance and misunderstanding, crashes to the floor helpless
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'm honestly losing my will to play this game. Everything I post someone pops up with an inane reason for it to be scummy.
On January 28 2012 04:17 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +Meapak also fits the lurker bill, buts here's the thing. If Meapak is scum, he was doing one of a few things with his posts. A) He picked out a quick pro-town read on me, and tried to sabotage my cred or get me lynched(ballsy and unlikely). B) Picked out a scum read on me and tried to bus me to gain town cred(unlikely). C) Ignored my potential alignment and just went all out in an effort to build scum-hunting effort credentials(likely).
Or alternatively he is town and saw what he thought was a player trying to communicate with his scum buddies(most likely) And how is this not a direct contradiction of what you said not to do. You are essentially calling him town here. One strike too many. ##Vote: Radfield
For the last, and I do mean last time, it's not about an embargo on the word town, it's not about never stating you don't think someone is worth a lynch, it's not about semantical statements. It's about not giving the mafia juicy lists of who we collectively think is most townish(because that directly helps them determine whom to kill, and increases the likelyhood of getting that kill).
You're case is bullshit, and so is everything about your play this game. You're doing false scumhunting, and trying to look like you are contributing, when in fact you are just bandwagonning a strong player.
##Vote Bumatlarge
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On January 28 2012 05:07 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 03:39 Radfield wrote:
You're either being obtuse by refusing to explain to me why you think I am scum, or I suppose I am obtuse for failing to understand where you have laid out your problems.
Assigning varying degrees of scumminess is ALWAYS useful. It happens every game, and I don't understand how you can object to it. Lets say I have 4 players I think are scum, obviously I don't think they are equally likely to be scum. They all have degrees of scumminess, and I'm going to indicate that when I post my reads. What are you even arguing here?
Can someone else please explain to me what Jackal is objecting to, because I really don't see it(or understand it).
Dammit man. It's not what you said. It's the language you used. Scum need a means to identify each other through their messaging. Your one little line of scumminess is in my mind a means of communication. There was absolutely no reason for the way you worded that. It served no purpose. It conveyed no meaning that "Don't call others town" would not have. Sorry but I can see no reason for inventing a scummy scale that basically says town or not town other than as a reference to use in your anonymous messaging to your teammates.
That makes much more sense, and actually gives me an idea to why the line put you off. Realize that I probably spent about 3 seconds writing that line.
I disagree that the line "don't call others town" would have done the same purpose. It likely would have for some people, but look at the sheer volume of people who misunderstood my post, DESPITE me putting in the extra examples, etc. I strive for clarity in my posts(and I obviously failed hard with that one) and I tried to make my point crystal clear. That is the reason that line exists. It's not a code, it's not a breadcrumb, it's just an example in an effort to illustrate my point.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look, just forget about that, and take my posting as a whole. If you still feel like this is somehow scum-radfield, then fine, but please don't vote me on the basis of one throw-away line - A throw away line that no one else(that i can tell) even finds scummy.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
You guys should vote Bum. In my eyes he's our best shot at hitting scum today.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Wiggles, I posted a semi-case on Bum earlier in the game. Nothing major but a couple of small things added together.
You do realize the only reason I posted that list(ABC123 etc) is because people were repeatedly missing my point and making semantically arguments. You can't pretend that post existed in a vacuum and that I did not have reason to post it. Just read through that section of the thread.
Where have I contradicted myself multiple times?
What are my really weird mistakes?
What excuse did I make for my early reads being bad or resulting in a mislynch?
I also think you're dramatically overstating the potential detriment my ABC123 list has for town(though in hindsight I agree I should have just posted all X's), as well as overstating it as a scum motivated action.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On January 28 2012 07:30 redFF wrote:
naia does this every gane
show me a town game where she doesnt do this/.
Agreed, though I'm not sure she acts any differently as scum....
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On January 28 2012 06:09 Blazinghand wrote:
Do you really think he's better than Meapak McLurkinson?
More like Meapak InActiveson. Way too hard to tell if he's even lurking or just IRL busy.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2012 08:03 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 07:39 Radfield wrote:
Wiggles, I posted a semi-case on Bum earlier in the game. Nothing major but a couple of small things added together.
You do realize the only reason I posted that list(ABC123 etc) is because people were repeatedly missing my point and making semantically arguments. You can't pretend that post existed in a vacuum and that I did not have reason to post it. Just read through that section of the thread.
Where have I contradicted myself multiple times?
What are my really weird mistakes?
What excuse did I make for my early reads being bad or resulting in a mislynch?
I also think you're dramatically overstating the potential detriment my ABC123 list has for town(though in hindsight I agree I should have just posted all X's), as well as overstating it as a scum motivated action. Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 13:33 Radfield wrote:
I don't scumhunt extremely early on in the game, as my reads (and yours I imagine) are terrible during that timeframe. This looked like an excuse to me. I guess it depends on your definition about what "extremely early on" means, but it seemed weird to me, like if you lynch town on Day 1 you can go back and say that you're bad early on. Contradiction 1: You say not to make plans for scum or discuss their strategy, then you write: Show nested quote +Second, mafia have very limited forms of communication this game, and from the looks of the Inception agent role, we can assume that town has some way to view their messages. This means mafia have to be extremely careful with what they write, so blatant things like lets kill X tomorrow are probably out. So mafia need a means to try to indicate to their brethren who should be getting hit. Imagine I am scum, I want to make sure that my buddies don't accidently send in hits on players I think are scummy, I want them to send in the hits on people I think seem like sure town. So what am I going to do? I'm going to repeatedly hammer it home in thread that I think Player Z is sure town. If there is general consensus among the group that player Z is town, he is a great target for mafia to lump in on. Which is basically talking about scum strategy. Also, it seems off, because couldn't you use that for scum hunting? The first part, has absolutely no merit for town, and just warns the mafia to be careful what they write. As for the second part, you say that calling players town is a sign of scum pointing out a target. However, I don't see why you didn't use this idea to your advantage. You obviously think all or most scum will come to the same conclusion (or otherwise there would be no point in mentioning it), so why not wait until the end of day 1, and see who actually does it, to find scum? Normally people shouldn't have super strong town reads, especially with people lurking like they've been, so someone saying that x is their strongest town read and a sure green would basically set off warning bells and give you a scum candidate. The sacrifice of one player would be worth potentially catching multiple scum, and you can threaten that any possible medic protect the 'town' player. Instead, you send town off on a silly tangent. Contradiction 2: Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 12:22 Radfield wrote:
Cons: Possibly leaves us low on town leaders. Certain players may spend too much time going after obvious townies. Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 07:02 Radfield wrote:This is also why its a bad plan. Setting out on day 1 with a game plan of never allowing 'leaders' to emerge is an amazingly bad plan. How often does one or two players end up contributing way more than others? This plan would be to ignore those types of players and to silently cheer them on.
This is a ridiculous argument. In no way does anyone get ignored and in no way do leaders not emerge. Leaders don't become leaders because a bunch of people call them town. Leaders become leaders and THEN a bunch of people call them town. Just keep your townreads to yourself, at the very least early on in the game(Day 1/2) This looks weird to me, because you write yourself that your plan could leave town low on leaders, with no reasoning that can be seen besides they aren't called town. Then, when Vader says the same thing, you attack him very strongly for it. This looks like a contradiction. The mistake was posting a public key for mafia communication, as well as the odd inconsistencies I pointed out above. Added together, you seem inconsistent to me, and that makes me believe you're either scum, or playing oddly/making weird mistakes, such that it's making me think you look like scum. Also, your first case on bum was two possible breadcrumbs and a couple of odd sentences, which didn't seem that strong to me. It's too late to lynch GGQ, right? He looks very scummy to me.
Thanks for writing that out. I have a rebuttal for pretty much all of that, but don't have time to write it out right now, as I'm off for the night.
Just don't lynch me ok? I don't understand why any sensible town player who has even an inkling of my meta would try to get me lynched Day 1. Day 2, sure. Day 3, most definitely.... but DAY 1!? Show some common sense.
Just don't lynch me.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On January 28 2012 08:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Radfield, are you still around? You don't seem like you care that much what happens...
I'm still here for the moment, but honestly you're right, I don't really care right now. These arguments are weighing me down and sapping my will to fight hard. If you want to lynch me Day 1 with barely a scratch of evidence, so be it.
I honestly do have rebuttals for most of what you wrote, but don't really have the motivation to go into it again.
All that being said, I have tons of motivation for this game(and tons of time too), but I don't feel like sitting here and rehashing the same things over and over. I made a post early on which was meant to illustrate an important albeit minor point. Since then I have been fighting misconceptions, poor reading skills, and accusations of all sorts of scum-breadcrumbing.
Do you blame me if I'm ready to throw my hands up in the air? At the very least you made some kind of cohesive case as a whole, instead of picking on one little and ignoring my posting as a whole. I do appreciate that.
Lynch me and facepalm or don't. I leave it in your hands.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On January 28 2012 09:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
You posted on the deadline, it's a little late now. =/
It feels like no one's playing right now.
Whoops, I actually thought there was another two hours. My only true mistake this game -_-
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
congrats on a really well thought out lynch everyone. When has it EVER been a bad idea to lynch Radfield Day 1... I mean seriously...
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Cheer up guys, I'm sure it could've been worse :D
and with that last gurgle of sarcastic support, radfield passes to the dreamworld for eternity
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EPT
