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Interesting setup IMHO. At first it seems imalanced in favor of angels( cuz of the NK and demon killer), but corrupt ability is very strong too....
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Tyrran
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##Signup Interesting setup IMHO. At first it seems imalanced in favor of angels( cuz of the NK and demon killer), but corrupt ability is very strong too.... | ||
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On December 31 2011 08:01 layabout wrote: Show nested quote + On December 31 2011 07:42 Zephirdd wrote: Ohohoho alphabetical ordering makes me the last on the list. Can't wait, see you all on the 2nd. Happy new year festivities! <edit> IMO any player should refrain from discussing the game until the game starts(for example, best play for a corrupted player). The reason is that you may and must change your position depending on your role. shouldn't we take advantage of the open set-up by discussing it? Besides everyone will either be town or pretending to be town once the game starts, and seeing as 12/18 players are town, surely it would benefit the majority to start discussion early. This also mean i have 1/3 chance to give my ennemies precious advice. I'm not taking the bet :p. The first day will last 72 hours, that will be plenty of time for discussion. | ||
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And the game is on. I'll start with some basic guidelines about mafia : O NOT BANDWAGON. Please always gives a reason for you vote. More importantly dont vote without thinking about just because 5 other players already voted. *BUILD STRONG CASE WHEN SCUMHUNTING. This game is about convincing other people, not yourself. dont expect people to follow your vote if dont build a strong case. EFEND YOURSELF. Even as town, you migth get FoS'ed or have a case build up against you. Please dont go troll mode, dont call everyone dumb, but instead defend yourself and tell us what was going through your mind. This is your best chance of not being lynched. Not following these basic guidelines is what screwed town over in the steamship mafia. Follow them to maximize our chances to win this game. Going to lunch now, I'll post about the specificities of the setup later today. | ||
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Zona, can you confirm that the role and alignement of a player killed using the slay ability, by the Angel acolyte and/or the Angelic observer are revealed? Not knowing the alignement/role of a killed player is devastating for town. Is the demon hunter still alive? Is the seer? is the sage? how many demons remains ? Setting up a stratey with limited information on the blue roles still alive will be pretty hard. The Demons can also conceal a lynch, but they can only do it once a game, so it have a smaller impact. On January 04 2012 20:07 syllogism wrote: Due to the fact the players who are sent to purgatory is publicly announced and the fact the same angel role(s) perform night kills every night, it appears optimal to use the power with a focus on the role blocking aspect of it. On night 1 however the channeler and the demonic courier (yes, this is in your best interest) should target players who are highly likely to be killed without protection if they are town/demon. Even if they appear scummy, role blocking at least two out of the three angel roles is beneficial and even if the target is a demon, it's possible that they chose him to perform corruption (this is unlikely however on n1 due to obvious reasons). You can stray from this plan if there is a highly suspicious player as just the fact that this is the starting point should deter angels from hitting with impunity. Actually, we can use the banish ability offensively to determine the role of scummy player. If the slay ability is not used one nigth, then the banished (or the transported) player are very likely to be the angel holding the power of the death ray, and they should be priority target for investingation/future banishement. Therefore we can banish one of the player we think is an angel and see if the slay ability is used that nigth. Note that if no corruption happens on even numbered nigths , its harder to conclude because Demons could have tried to corrupt an angel or the sage. | ||
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On December 29 2011 22:23 Palmar wrote: yo ##Signup If I get the angel with a wraithcannon, I'll make syllo disappear n1. that's a promise. On January 04 2012 21:07 syllogism wrote: We should probably lynch palmar today, he appears to be some sort of scum and hating his life right now I dunno what's going on between these two, but we should just ignore this for now. | ||
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On January 06 2012 01:56 syllogism wrote: . Tyrran you have shown that you can be useful, do you intend to post anything at all today? I posted hastiliy from work, and i missed the post just above the Day 1 post. Mea culpa. Im in now. I first posted a message avoiding to avoid us played as bad as town as we did in steamship liquidia. Then I wanted to make a post explaining that information was going to be the key of this game. I added a idea I just had, on how we could use purgatory information to deduce scum role. It did not turn out to be as good as i thougth. I still stand by the fact that we are going to heavily analyse nigth actions in order to win this game. Now back to scum hunt. Reffalen On January 04 2012 17:59 Refallen wrote: Not to mention that while angels CAN kill demons, it hardly seems optimal for them. With 11 town and only 3 of each faction, for angels to kill off demons would just mean that town will have an easier time. I think that we can consider the scenario of angel and demon killing each other therfore, highly improbable. I would like him to explain this statement. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me. Actually it looks more like he is saying "hey angels, please dont shoot demons". In practice of course killing all the demons is pretty good for the angels as they would not have to worry about them getting a lot of votes through corruption. And a blue is not more threatening than a demon for an angel. So reffallen, can you please explain why you thought it is not optimal for angels to kill demons ? I dont see much drawback for them doing this. Also it's your turn to step and and post. Who do you think is most scum rigth now ? | ||
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On January 06 2012 11:14 Refallen wrote: I'm thinking Jackal is town this game. At least, he appears to be taking a different route than on TLXLVIII when he was scum. Plus I don't think any scum would risk trying to outright lynch Palmar without a really detailed case. I disagree with you here. From the few games I've read Palmar seems to be a efficient scum hunter.Bussing Palmar is therefore an good scum strat. Almost EVERY SINGLE one of Jackal post were attacking palmar. And he NEVER had more than 1 line of justification. He did not even refer to MrWiggles case. That is scummy play for me. Also note that as there is 2 scum faction, they can perfectly both be scum, one angel and one demon. I'll be looking at both of them today. Palmar need to step up his game, and Jackal needs to start become useful. | ||
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On January 07 2012 07:47 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Well, it appears as though xsksc is no longer playing this game, as his last post was: January 04 2012 23:24. I don't like lynching lurkers, but from what I know of Erandorr, his lurking makes him likely to be scum, and I do like lynching scum. Barring him showing an actual commitment to playing, I would be fine with lynching him. On risk.nuke, his playstyle seems to vary a good deal between games, so I am not sold on him being scum yet and would certainly like to hear a bit more from him before deciding whether or not I think he is worth a lynch. Tyrran Tyrran's play seems very different from his play in steamship where he was town. He is being much less aggressive so far, and usually people are more aggressive as town than they are as scum. I think he would make a fine lynch for the day. My only qualm with lynching him is that he hasn't interacted with other players much so far, so his flip will be less revealing, but I like our odds of hitting scum here. My vote will be on him for now. His steamship filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=57176 His filter so far this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=57176 ##Vote: Tyrran If you read steamship mafia, you'll notice i wasnt really active before I had some hard fact to analyse ( ie kenpachi lynch). I'm not good at analysing Meta, because its only my second game here. Half the accusation here are made on meta. I'm looking for contradictions, votes, something i can work on. I dont like making case for the sake on making one. I'll make a case after day 1, when i'll have more info to work with. | ||
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On January 07 2012 14:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Tyrran: He started out the game with very general advice. This seems weird, but it might be due to the mini games, in which I've seen new players do that to each other. Still something to note though, as scum like to use it to look like they're contributing. Compared to steamship that you linked, he is much more careful and timid in this game. In steamship, just reading through his early posts, he didn't seem scared to call people out and ask direct questions. In that game, he was vanilla, however, so there could be something to do with the set-up contributing to his timidness (less likely because he talks about the set-up in this game), or he's some kind of power role. Verdict: Scummy. Not as direct as his last game, and timid. However, I'm willing to give him slightly more time to see if he starts to contribute. Might be a good vig shot night 2. Does anyone have a game in which Tyrran rolled scum that I can read? @Tyrran, what do you think of the accusations against you? Who do you want to lynch? People are basically trying to Meta me based on the single game I played before, which is a bit silly, but apparently that's the main scumhunt method on day 1. I agree that i'm not as aggressive as i could be, but i'm also less active due to more IRL stuff. As for who i would lynch now, the three target i have in mind are Errandor , for lurking and being useless , Jackal 58 for being overly agressive on pamar with no real case behind it, and Palmar because i found your case solid. Of course, you are going to ask me to pick one, and as i said before, i'm not aware of the meta enough to lynch someone based on meta alone. That's why i'm not going to vote on jackal and palmar and vote for Errandor instead. HIs filter is full of uselss post where he isnt even trying to help town, jsut saying random stuff not even related to the game ( BH being WBG smurf...). Therefore, ##Vote : Errandor | ||
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On January 07 2012 22:55 Bluelightz wrote: blablablabla Okay, so you list all my post, and then do not even try to make a case. Quoting all my post commenting them with a single word is not a case. People that know how to click on my filter button did not learn anything by looking at your "case" against me. | ||
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On January 08 2012 08:15 risk.nuke wrote: layabout is probably a townie, Question Palmar and Dirkzor, Erandorr and Jackal are red. Banish syllo/wiggles tonight, see you. Hey risk, since you are alive, could you please devellop on this. Whats makes your think Dirkzor and Jackal are red ? Also, Syllogism, what is your stance about risk.nuke, and why? You basically saved him last night, do you think he is town or not ? | ||
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On January 08 2012 23:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Alright so I said I had a plan and I aim to flesh it out. I will like to section this into three areas, Intro, Mechanics, and Discussion. I feel that is the most direct and simplest way in which to understand this plan. All criticisms are welcome, but I am sure I have thought of most concerns and justified them somehow. Mechanics This is the part that takes more to understand and was a lot more effort to think around (hopefully) all the possibilities. One of the biggest is obviously the Angelic Acolyte who gets an extra KP if he correctly guesses townie with dark powers, corrupted townie, or Demon when performing his stalk action. This only really affects a minority of townies, namely our blues and those minority who become corrupted. I think we can counter this by using banish amongst the claimed blues as a form of protection, and at the same time the Demon's will be given incentive to also use their transport as a form of protection and a dual threat. Firstly, it increases the chance of blocking an Angel KP which the Demons want to do, secondly it takes a blue power out of action for the night. This is fine because it still maintains our voting power in the day time. This causes there to only be a 50% success rate of the angels target into the blue circle. At the same time if the demons wish to corrupt a blue and jack their vote, they have a 66% chance of not hitting a jailor block. At the same time regular townies can be corrupted and they should claim. The longer the game draws out for the angels the more they NEED to kill corrupted townies/demons before the lynch against them is completely controlled. We can further increase this problem by having several people claim corrupt every day so the Angels can't be sure if they are going to use their extra KP effectively. The more dire the corrupted situation becomes the less they can focus on blues, and that gives us more confirmed townies with less players alive, further shrinking the town player pool narrowing down the angel/demons in the townie section of the group. What makes you think that angels will want to target the blues ? They are pretty much immune to blues, appart from the seer which will be desintegrated by the Angel of Death if he ever claim ( or i guess you could banish him, but then he would be pretty useless). So angel will just randomly shoot into townies, who knows, they migth even get a lucky shot on a demon, they migth also kill townies with dark power if they are not banished. Secondly you suppose that Demons are going to want to use their banish defensively. If they want to do this, then Demons will just banish the Demon Hunter ( which will NEVER EVER be targeted by angels, because he basically works for them). If they have corrupted someone, they can also banish the sage, and just enjoy they extra vote ! They are not going to banish someone in order to 'protect' him. Your plan gives HUGE information to both scum faction, and town actually gains very little from it. I dont like it. I think it favors Demons way too much ( because they can protect themself way more easely using their power knowing who the blues are), it also helps angels a bit ( they can kill the seer, they do not risk killing the demon hunter by mistake). But town is definitively the big loser in your plan. | ||
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On January 09 2012 07:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2012 00:37 Tyrran wrote: On January 08 2012 23:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Alright so I said I had a plan and I aim to flesh it out. I will like to section this into three areas, Intro, Mechanics, and Discussion. I feel that is the most direct and simplest way in which to understand this plan. All criticisms are welcome, but I am sure I have thought of most concerns and justified them somehow. Mechanics This is the part that takes more to understand and was a lot more effort to think around (hopefully) all the possibilities. One of the biggest is obviously the Angelic Acolyte who gets an extra KP if he correctly guesses townie with dark powers, corrupted townie, or Demon when performing his stalk action. This only really affects a minority of townies, namely our blues and those minority who become corrupted. I think we can counter this by using banish amongst the claimed blues as a form of protection, and at the same time the Demon's will be given incentive to also use their transport as a form of protection and a dual threat. Firstly, it increases the chance of blocking an Angel KP which the Demons want to do, secondly it takes a blue power out of action for the night. This is fine because it still maintains our voting power in the day time. This causes there to only be a 50% success rate of the angels target into the blue circle. At the same time if the demons wish to corrupt a blue and jack their vote, they have a 66% chance of not hitting a jailor block. At the same time regular townies can be corrupted and they should claim. The longer the game draws out for the angels the more they NEED to kill corrupted townies/demons before the lynch against them is completely controlled. We can further increase this problem by having several people claim corrupt every day so the Angels can't be sure if they are going to use their extra KP effectively. The more dire the corrupted situation becomes the less they can focus on blues, and that gives us more confirmed townies with less players alive, further shrinking the town player pool narrowing down the angel/demons in the townie section of the group. What makes you think that angels will want to target the blues ? They are pretty much immune to blues, appart from the seer which will be desintegrated by the Angel of Death if he ever claim ( or i guess you could banish him, but then he would be pretty useless). So angel will just randomly shoot into townies, who knows, they migth even get a lucky shot on a demon, they migth also kill townies with dark power if they are not banished. Secondly you suppose that Demons are going to want to use their banish defensively. If they want to do this, then Demons will just banish the Demon Hunter ( which will NEVER EVER be targeted by angels, because he basically works for them). If they have corrupted someone, they can also banish the sage, and just enjoy they extra vote ! They are not going to banish someone in order to 'protect' him. Your plan gives HUGE information to both scum faction, and town actually gains very little from it. I dont like it. I think it favors Demons way too much ( because they can protect themself way more easely using their power knowing who the blues are), it also helps angels a bit ( they can kill the seer, they do not risk killing the demon hunter by mistake). But town is definitively the big loser in your plan. Once again, issues arise from illiteracy. As I said earlier, the blue roles NEVER claim their role, just their color. This prevents effective use of banishment/Transport and turns it into just a guessing game. The angels need to kill a confirmed voting black because they can't let four confirmed fucking townies sit around all game and hope for the best. Point two, demons won't know who the demon hunter is to properly banish him on top of which as stated earlier, he acts as a permanent town aligned voting block. The goal of the demons is to eventually control the vote, and that's how they win. They have no KP. The angels need to prevent a solid voting block from forming. I don't know what about this comes off as that complex. The scum teams get huge information regardless. They KNOW who they kill, this way we also know who they kill. This comes back to the annihilate mechanic. We open ourselves up to fakeclaims by not mass claiming before fake claims are possible. I don't think you get how a no flip mechanic works in this game, or in any game. When the mafia knows the information and we don't, we are at a disadvantage. When the Mafia can't fake claim, the town is at an advantage. When we confirm players as absolutely innocent, guess what? We win again. After today the mafia can safely fake claim and nothing is confirmable, my plan preempts this issue. Okay, i misread and missed the color only claim part. My bad, gotta go back some new googles. Your plan is therefore much better than i initially thougth. I still have an issue with how you are going to deal with corruption. Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too. On one hand you say that corrupted town should claim, but on the other hand you also advise multiple claim. What does town gain form multiple corruption claim ? While i agree that this migth confuse scum, If the angels are in doubt on how to get rid of corrupted townies, how are we going to know how to deal with it ? | ||
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On January 09 2012 12:14 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: I agree that it was most likely Palmar that sent me to purgatory, as I can't see any town player choosing to protect me over syllo, and I can't see town trying to use it for the roleblock on me instead of protecting someone. What I am more confused about is why he would do that. Agreed. Syllo was one of the most valuable town assets day 1, channeler sending him to purgatory was the best and obvious move. Palmar maybe thougth you were AoD, and/or DemonHunter. He also maybe tried to protect you. The fact that there were no ???? flip leaves us with 4 probability:
Questions to discuss day 2 : What do you guys think of Syllo and HoD ? Are they summy too you. Do you think they were liekly target for the AoD? With no ???? flip, RoL plan could still be put into motion. What do you think about it? | ||
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On January 09 2012 20:37 Dirkzor wrote: Actually: ##Vote Cwave Either he is scum with palmar or he is a townie with a bad read (on me). Since when is having a bad read a good reason to lynch a townie? Are you seriously saying we should lynch a townie because he has a 'bad read'. His case against you is pretty weak, he did note even vote against him, why would you lynch him ? What are you afraid of? Why do you think he is scum with palmar ? It doesnt really stad out in his filter. What makes you think he is demon and not an Angel ( if he is scum). You seems to hold a grudge against him because he called you fishy early day 1. Why do you focus so much on him, and not on Blazinghand who actually voted against you ? On the other hand, i would also like to see you post more Cwave. You seems to have an excel file where you write your read on us. Tell me, who do you think we should lynch today, why ? | ||
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Cwave, while not particulary active, has been pushing cases left and rigth. Within his two page filter, you can find up to 8 scum accusation on 6 different people( Dirkzor , RoL, Erandorr, risk.nuke, Jackal58, MrWiggle). Now, i dont have anything against trying to find scum, but the issue is that while seeming to actively look for scum, Cwave has never actually tried to get someone lynched ! Apart for risk.nuke ( that you accused once in day one, then again in day 2), Cwave never put pressure on anyone, never asked other to investigate further on his town read. Instead, we find post like this : On January 05 2012 23:52 Cwave wrote: For you Palmar & Syllo, who would you pop right now if you had to? On January 06 2012 00:03 Cwave wrote: Posted earlier that i believe that he leans to much towards the Angel/Demon question and tries to steer away from Angels being our only threath. I think that goes without saying so it's just fluff to look like contributing by him. That and the focus on when it becomes night. Got told by Palmar that means nothing but i don't agree with that! Got any cases yourself yet Syllo which are worth sharing? On January 06 2012 20:11 Cwave wrote: Show nested quote + On January 06 2012 19:55 syllogism wrote: It's quite possible that wiggles is scum, but considering you don't particularly appear to care about the game, I'm hardly sold based on your "wiggles possibly can't be this bad!" case. Do you think I'm town? Why don't you care about who I think is scum? Why do you care what he thinks about your scumreads? Since you haven't provided any or anything close to it, you make it hard for someone to care for something that isn't there (yet). Just " Im gonna lynch Wiggles if he doesnt post more" and "Im gonna lynch Errandor if he doesnt post more". However, I still do care about who you think is scum. Who do you think is scum? Notice how he never ask : "what do you think about XXX, but instead remains as vague as possible ?" He his never saying "We should lynch XXX today". Notice the difference between this and MrWiggle pushing for Palmar, Syllo pushing for Erandorr, or even HoD pushing against me. More recently, when he is asked who he thinks we should lynch. On January 10 2012 03:34 Cwave wrote: Show nested quote + On January 10 2012 03:17 layabout wrote: i didn't feel it was worth pointing out specifically but it is probably worth noting. @cwave what are your thoughts on the game so far? who do you think we should be lynching? Day1 started timidly but in the end picked up speed and because of it, we all gained a lot of (spammy)info. Mostely useless but the vote switch at the end and Palmar flipping demon the game really started now. There is more info hidden among the players here as the Sage and Seer have either confirmed/unconfirmed Angels/Demons and the town demon hunter knows if he was succesfull or not and in what way. As for lynching, Dirkzor for now because is either nooby/scummy and votes for me because i question him. Not set in stone as lynching someone on a bad response after a little pressure most of the time flips a townie. Risk.nuke on my list cause of the lynch save last day in the final hour. Very suspicious of Syllo but he has earned some close watching by everyone. in my opinion. More so due to the dance he did with palmar and the vote switch 8 min apart both to the same target after having targeted eachother. Dirkzor is not set in stone. Maybe we should not lynch him despite him being scummy, because he migth flip town. Risk.nuke is on his list, but not for the two reason he attacked him prior to that. Strange for someone who claims to hold an excel file with his thougths Syllo is suspicious, but still is not a lynch target. Notice how he did not answer the question. Also some of his cases have very few content in them. I'm specifically thinking about his case + Show Spoiler [ Case against MrWiggle] + On January 10 2012 00:00 Cwave wrote: Looking into Palmar his filter, he and Wiggles go off on some sort of duet where they distance eachother and vote for eachother. Then they both switch and nothing is said of it and right before Palmar flips, he lists Wiggles as town. Where as before in his filter, nowhere does it come forward that he has really changed his mind or that Wiggles has him convinced that he is town. Seeing as Palmar flipped scum, im thinking MrWiggles might be one of his demonic dancing partners. Palmar attacks MrWiggels after Wiggles makes a "case" against him. So palmar rewards a bad read with a vote. Scummy play and turns out, Palmar was scum. His case on risk nuke just after also is basically void : Show nested quote + On January 06 2012 19:30 Palmar wrote: On January 06 2012 08:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:So, I think Palmar is scum for his wishy-washiness, failure to provide any scum-reads, and for his timid posting and interactions. This is doubly condemning in the light of his normal town play, which is the complete opposite of what we see here. This is our Day 1 Lynch. No you are, because you cannot possibly be this bad. ##Vote: Mr. Wiggles Ok, so full on action. Then, the 8th of januari happens, last day of the first day. Vote happens @ 7:38 on 8th januari 2012. Then in MrWiggles his filter he attacks palmar right up until the last "day" of day1, namely 7th of januari. 8th of januari, the day of the deadline. He stops with digging into palmar without any reasoning for it in his filter. Vote happens on 8th of januari 2012 at 7:30. In conclusion, these two were giving eachother nothing but hate right up until ~7:30 on the 8th of januari. Looks like a planned and organised move to move the votes of eachother after they created some distance of eachother on day1. Here we have a typical example of someone trying to look helpful by creating a case with no content at all. he makes it look like very serious using precise quotes and stuff, but the content behind it is basically none. MrWiggle switched target because it was obvious palmar wasnt be lynched and he wanted to avoid a no-lynch. That is a pro-town move, why would you call him out on it ? Cwave, you are someone who seems towns, but in reality you did not help much at all until now. While you migth be a timid town, I also think it is likely you are scum player. Please answer this : Is there anyone you really think is scum ? Someone you would be fine pushing for lynch ? Who ? Why ? You seem to spend a lot of time analysing people. Please prove us that you are town by trying to get scummy people lynched. | ||
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On January 10 2012 15:04 syllogism wrote: Hello Tyrran is Risk still a null read to you and why? What do you think about these posts? Show nested quote + Syllogism, there are two days left why woudl I commit to lynching this soon. I took the topics of the time and wrote my thoughts on them. Then I wanted to see who would comment on it further, what they would say, who would push for their lynch etc. What the hell are you doing? commenting on how useless I am when you don't know my agenda which you just ruined because you didn't think it through. Or were you planning on pushing for my lynch today. Cause if you weren't there is nothing pro-town about calling me out. I'm town and you're forcing me to reveal what I wanted to do. If I had been scum you would had just tipped me off instead of saving it for a case you would write against me. This post is really bad from him, wrong on so many aspect. I bolded the that is the most suspicious to me. I think that in most cases calling someone out is a good think. It reminds townie that they should contribute more, and it puts pressure on scum people, which can only help town confirming that they are red. More often than not, it is pro-town to call people out. Risk claims to have only played as town so far, but doesnt know this ? Also, why would he hide what he wanted to do ? A townie ( especially a VT as he claims to be) should not be hiding his plan. Either it is pro-town and he should share it, or it is not and he should forget about it. I dont think forcing someone to reveal what he wants to do is a bad thing. This is really scummy from him. Show nested quote + So syllogism I don't like having meta thrown in my face. First of all nobody likes having meta thrown in thier face because it's not really something you can defend yourself against. But there are different sorts of meta. There are meta of people who have played alot of games who's meta can be very clear (erandorr). Then there is meta of people who have played games as both mafia and town. Then there is meta against me who have only played as town. I mean I've had people calling me out on meta in all of my games exept 1 or 2 and I've always been town including this time so I'm getting a bit sick of it. So i'm new to TL mafia, but I am divided with Meta based argument. Meta is a great way to catch veteran, but using meta to catch player who only have played a few game. Now i dont know how many games risk.nuke has played, but i recall HoD mentioning that risk already was mislynched because of the same kind arument, which explains why he do not like them. At least he is consistent. So yes, he is scummy and makes a valid lynch target. The first post you mention is strange and doesnt seem to come from a VT. The second however is null for me, it can comes both from scum or town. I think that he should realize that the only way you can defend yourself against META argument is to start making pro-town contributions. He hasnt started yet.I would like to make full use of the time allowed for day 2, but should no better lynch target occur by tomorrow, and should he not start contributing more, i'm okay with lynching him. @Syllo : All your cases so far have been based on Meta. But what do you think of Jackal, Dirkzor and Cwave ? Are they scummy to you ? I would also like to see RoL defend himself against BH caze, and Dirkzor defend himself against Layabout case. @Cwave : I agree that i have contributed less than I should as town. I'm not going to go frontal with syllo/HoD because they call me scummy. The only way I can defend myself now is by making more pro-town contribution. That is what i intend to do. | ||
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On January 10 2012 21:14 Cwave wrote: Show nested quote + On January 10 2012 18:55 Tyrran wrote: @Cwave : I agree that i have contributed less than I should as town. I'm not going to go frontal with syllo/HoD because they call me scummy. The only way I can defend myself now is by making more pro-town contribution. That is what i intend to do. Is there any other form of contribution other then PRO-town? Yes there is. And this is what you should be looking for when scumhunting. It includes discusssing topics that doesnt really matter , it includes randomly calling people ou without putting pressure on them, it includes Bandwagoning wihtout any good justifications. It includes calling people stupid for not blindly beleiving you. It includes basically every single post that doesnt make us one step closer of lynching a scum. I guess that what i call 'pro-town contribution' you call simply ' contribution ' but I beleive scum also contributes to the thread, only not in a way that helps town. You also did not answer Syllo's question : What do you mean by 'lynching risk.nuke but hammering Rol is the best option ' ? Do you want to lynch RoL or Risk ? | ||
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On January 10 2012 21:39 syllogism wrote: Risk I've asked you twice to give me your opinion on Tyrran. You just have to convince me that he is a better lynch than you and perhaps I will push for his lynch instead! Why aren't you cooperating? You haven't posted any content since people became suspicious of you. Cwave: I asked you a question. You are clearly reading the thread but apparently refusing to answer. Please do. Tyrran: Oh look, you find him scummy but hope a better lynch magically materializes so you don't have to vote for him. You certainly aren't scum hunting. Let me guess, you would rather lynch RoL? Actually, no I dont. Part of the reason is that i havent had time yet to analyze deeply the case against him . My scum reads for now are Cwave -I explained why-, Jackal and risk. I also want to read the filter of other lurkers such as Grackaroni and Zephird. I cant really spend enough time building a case from work, so i'll do it later from home. Also I stated Day 1 that I felt it wasnt a good idea to throw votes early. So 'ill wait for then last 24 hours and vote on the case that makes the most sense to me. It migth very well be risk.nuke. | ||
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On January 10 2012 21:56 Cwave wrote: Why i ask is because i find it a given you post protown stuff as ... town. To articulate it and stress it that you are gonna be pro-town leads me to believe you are forcing yourself to do pro-town stuff. You should read Steamship Mafia Day 1. If townies only posted pro-town stuff, this game would be so much easier. On January 10 2012 22:10 syllogism wrote: Tyrran: is this the reason you find jackal scummy? Show nested quote + Jackal 58 for being overly agressive on pamar with no real case behind it, and Palmar because i found your case solid. Now that Palmar flipped demon, you still think he is a good lynch today? Sorry, there is no way you can honestly believe that. What I did not like on Jackal filter is that he hardly gave any reasoning for his hyper agression. He tunnelled on palmar, and did not even had the sligthtest reaction when MrWiggle made a solid case on Palmar. This is wy he looks scummy to me. It was better towards the end of day 2, and Palmar flipped scum, so i was about to let go on him, but then he does exactly the same thing on dirkzor day 2. Should you ask me if we should lynch him now, I'd answer no. Both Cwave and risk are more scummy. Yet I want to keep an eye on him. | ||
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On January 11 2012 03:38 Dirkzor wrote: Tyrran is the one I want to lynch most at the moment. I think he is on palmars team due to this: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2012 23:32 Tyrran wrote: Show nested quote + On December 29 2011 22:23 Palmar wrote: yo ##Signup If I get the angel with a wraithcannon, I'll make syllo disappear n1. that's a promise. Show nested quote + On January 04 2012 21:07 syllogism wrote: We should probably lynch palmar today, he appears to be some sort of scum and hating his life right now I dunno what's going on between these two, but we should just ignore this for now. Was trying to avoid the same shitstorm that happenned day 1, when a seemingly harmless claim led us to lynch 2 blue on day 1. This is only my second game here, I wanted it to go off a better start than day 1. On January 06 2012 19:04 Tyrran wrote: Show nested quote + On January 06 2012 11:14 Refallen wrote: I'm thinking Jackal is town this game. At least, he appears to be taking a different route than on TLXLVIII when he was scum. Plus I don't think any scum would risk trying to outright lynch Palmar without a really detailed case. I disagree with you here. From the few games I've read Palmar seems to be a efficient scum hunter.Bussing Palmar is therefore an good scum strat. Almost EVERY SINGLE one of Jackal post were attacking palmar. And he NEVER had more than 1 line of justification. He did not even refer to MrWiggles case. That is scummy play for me. Also note that as there is 2 scum faction, they can perfectly both be scum, one angel and one demon. I'll be looking at both of them today. Palmar need to step up his game, and Jackal needs to start become useful. He is defending palmar when there is no real reason to defend him. The first post compares a post pre-game to a post made in-game. In both posts he defends Palmar without really appearing to defend him. I'm attacking Jackal on his over agression, which i still dont like (see my post earlier). I'm also attacking out for attacking you the same way. He later changes his opinion on palmar. and in the same post call jackal scum and votes for erandorr Notice how i also call palmar and Erandorr scum. Voting for Erandorr was the obvious thing to do here since we were obviously not going to lynch palmar nor Jackal. Combine this with palmars change of opinion on Wiggles a few hours earlier it appears suspicious. I don't think its unlikely that demonteam realized that palmar will get lynched/killed at some point soon. Palmar gives up lynching wiggles (no support at that time) and his teammates start bussing him. So everyone that voted vor Erandorr and said palmar was likely scum is Demon ? That's only like half the players of this game. In the end I'll just quote how Tyrran have taken no stance on anybody he have written a case on. Note: These quotes are cut, but they are all the last part of Posts by Tyrran. Show nested quote + So reffallen, can you please explain why you thought it is not optimal for angels to kill demons ? I dont see much drawback for them doing this. Also it's your turn to step and and post. Who do you think is most scum rigth now ? Show nested quote + You seems to hold a grudge against him because he called you fishy early day 1. Why do you focus so much on him, and not on Blazinghand who actually voted against you ? On the other hand, i would also like to see you post more Cwave. You seems to have an excel file where you write your read on us. Tell me, who do you think we should lynch today, why ? Show nested quote + Cwave, you are someone who seems towns, but in reality you did not help much at all until now. While you migth be a timid town, I also think it is likely you are scum player. Please answer this : Is there anyone you really think is scum ? Someone you would be fine pushing for lynch ? Who ? Why ? You seem to spend a lot of time analysing people. Please prove us that you are town by trying to get scummy people lynched. I've said it several time now, I'm mostly suspicious about Cwave, on which i made a case earlier, and i spend several post trying to pressure him, and Risk.nuke, which i explained when Syllo asked me to give my thougth on him. I've also explained day 1, that I'm not a fan of casting votes early, which creates the risk of scum hammering someone, ending the day and reducing the discution time we have. So rigth now, the two most popular cases are risk.nuke and RoL. If we rephrase the main critisism against him, it can be summarized by : * He is inactive * He pushed for a bad plan. I dont think he realized his plan was bad. A scum woudnt have insisted as much when it became clear that it was not going to be adopted by town. His action are more like the one of some people that had worked hard on a plan, and was too obsessed with it that he couldnt see its flaws. I also agree with layabout that his plan was not blatantly anti town (see post above mine). So as you ask me to take a stance, I will be voting for Risk.nuke. At this point he is more likely to flip scum than Cwave IHMO. I'm waiting for tomorrow to ensure we enjoy another 24 hour of discussions. | ||
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@Jackal58 : Why " lets see if there is a reason " . Hammering risk.nuke will not tell you anything about Dirkzor. Did you learn anything. Also, why do you excuse yourself before he even flips ? Either you think he is scummy and vote for him or you explain why he isnt scummy. But dont vote for him for no reason. On January 12 2012 02:16 Jackal58 wrote: Show nested quote + On January 12 2012 02:10 layabout wrote: On January 12 2012 02:08 Jackal58 wrote: On January 12 2012 01:25 syllogism wrote: Because he was going to be lynched anyway and it appears that the night is accordingly longer? Considering that I personally would have liked to hammer yesterday, I wouldn't read too much into that. Jackal's tone however seems off though. Specifically his random apology. Did he apologize to erandorr yesterday? No. Does he ever apologize when lynching someone? I doubt it. Ya I believe I have apologized for being impulsive before. And wrong. And no I didn't apologize to Erandorr because Erandorr was max derp. If it makes you feel better next time I vote for somebody I'll post DIE MOTHERFUCKER along with it. Why did risk.nuke deserve an apology from you? For my impulsiveness. I had no intentions of voting for him until I saw Diz's post voting for Tyrran. Why is dirkzor voting for me a sign that it is time to kill risk ? Also, please explain to me why you think so hard that dizkor is scum. Yes you where rigth about Palmar, but your play makes me think your an angel. @Dizkor : People makes a case of me being inactive and not interested and you see me scum while refering to a post where i say who i think we should lynch. That makes a lot of sense. Time to defend myself too, my comment in bold. On January 11 2012 15:51 Spaackle wrote: So, after reading through Tyrran's thread, he's starring to look pretty scummy to me. He's posted much less than most others in this game, and his posts are long and full of fluff. He seems to spend a lot of time trying to tell other players how to play when he could be giving analysis or answering questions. He also contradicts himself a few times. Posts that really stand out to me: + Show Spoiler + What makes you think that angels will want to target the blues ? They are pretty much immune to blues, appart from the seer which will be desintegrated by the Angel of Death if he ever claim ( or i guess you could banish him, but then he would be pretty useless). So angel will just randomly shoot into townies, who knows, they migth even get a lucky shot on a demon, they migth also kill townies with dark power if they are not banished. Secondly you suppose that Demons are going to want to use their banish defensively. If they want to do this, then Demons will just banish the Demon Hunter ( which will NEVER EVER be targeted by angels, because he basically works for them). If they have corrupted someone, they can also banish the sage, and just enjoy they extra vote ! They are not going to banish someone in order to 'protect' him. Your plan gives HUGE information to both scum faction, and town actually gains very little from it. I dont like it. I think it favors Demons way too much ( because they can protect themself way more easely using their power knowing who the blues are), it also helps angels a bit ( they can kill the seer, they do not risk killing the demon hunter by mistake). But town is definitively the big loser in your plan. And Okay, i misread and missed the color only claim part. My bad, gotta go back some new googles. Your plan is therefore much better than i initially thougth. I still have an issue with how you are going to deal with corruption. Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too. On one hand you say that corrupted town should claim, but on the other hand you also advise multiple claim. What does town gain form multiple corruption claim ? While i agree that this migth confuse scum, If the angels are in doubt on how to get rid of corrupted townies, how are we going to know how to deal with it ? These posts are a glaring contradictions to each other. Tyrran points out several large flaws in RoL's plan. However, when RoL clears up the color claim issue, suddenly these flaws aren't so bad anymore. If you read correctly, nearly all my critisism where based on the fact that agel and demons would know the rolme of each blue. If they only claim blue and do not tell their role, my previous critisism do not hold anymoreTo me this represents a bit of wishy-washiness on Tyrran's part. He's very opposed to RoL's plan one minute, then thinks it's not too bad the next. Because i misunderstood it the first time There's Also this bit: Show nested quote + Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too. By we, does Tyrran mean town? Or is there some special we only him and RoL know about? Yes i meant town. What else would make sense ? This post caught my eye too: Show nested quote + Well I dont see how this could have gone better :D. One demon dead ( GJ DemonHunter or Angel Acolyte, whoever got him) and no unrevealed death. Perfect N1 for town. Here are some initial thought about what happened N1 : On January 09 2012 12:14 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: I agree that it was most likely Palmar that sent me to purgatory, as I can't see any town player choosing to protect me over syllo, and I can't see town trying to use it for the roleblock on me instead of protecting someone. What I am more confused about is why he would do that. Agreed. Syllo was one of the most valuable town assets day 1, channeler sending him to purgatory was the best and obvious move. Palmar maybe thougth you were AoD, and/or DemonHunter. He also maybe tried to protect you. The fact that there were no ???? flip leaves us with 4 probability: AoD targeted Syllo. This is unlikely. It was clear in the thread that the banish was going to be used defensively, and Syllogism was one of the most obvious target. I' not sure why angels would target him other than them being bad. AoD targeted HarbingerOfDoom. This is a possibility. I'm not sure why they would choose him over BH, Wiggles, layabout tho Syllo is the AoD. This is unlikely, he has been very active for town during day 1. Yet, we cannot ignore this possibility. I dont want him lynched today, but if he is banished again N2, and once again the AoD do not kill, then we will have to consider him as a lynch. HoD is the AoD. This is a possibility too, but i'm not sure about it. I'll try to find some time to read his filter today. Questions to discuss day 2 : What do you guys think of Syllo and HoD ? Are they summy too you. Do you think they were liekly target for the AoD? With no ???? flip, RoL plan could still be put into motion. What do you think about it? this is one of theposts that I really think paints Tyrran as a scum. He starts by congratulating the DH for the kill, then starts listing possibilities. His possibilities state what could have happened, but Tyrran doesnt really ever state what he thinks happened. Just "well maybe this or that." This noncommittal post also really highlights just how wishy-washy Tyrran has been this whole game. First of all, i did say day one taht i would give my thougth on the nigth actions, so I posted them. You say I remain vague, but with at the time, i dont see how i could commit on either HoD or Syllo. And i still say what i think : Either HoD is AoD or was the target, other options are unlikely. Yes its still non commital, but I still do say what i think happened. Tyrran, wha do you have to say for yourself? | ||
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On January 12 2012 05:06 Dirkzor wrote: Show nested quote + On January 12 2012 04:56 syllogism wrote: And yes, he was completely disinterested in the lynch on day 2. That seemed particularly damning; I even had to ask him 3 times until I got his opinion on Tyrran out of him and even then the answer was I don't think I'm willing to lynch him just yet. But that could change, I'm not going to say I can't be talked into lynching him so he can just lurk the entire day safely. That Risk wrote that made him less suspicious in my book then Tyrrans "Yes risk is scum lets lynch him" post. Tyrran just wanted another one to be lynched while risk actually took a stance. A stance that was also contradicting to the generel feeling in the thread. That is to me more townie then what Tyrran did. Also i gave specific reasons of why i found risk scummy when syllo asked me. Its not like I jumped on a random wagon. | ||
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On January 12 2012 05:51 syllogism wrote: No, I meant during the night. That is to say on Thursday as it's relatively late in France. My bad, I thougth nigth would end thursday morning. Sure, i'll post during night then. | ||
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I'm going to add something else about the setup that everyone should have realized: Demons wins by corrupting town and lynching angels, Angels win by killing everyone. This means that each time a VT is lynched, it is a failure for demons as well, not only for town. They lose a potential corrupt target, and more importantly they failed to prevent angels from getting closer of winning. Angels on the other hand do not care. Sure they would have prefered to get a demon or blue, but they still have chances to get them with slay and stalk. So my conclusion here is while it is important to properly scumhunt as Demon, Angels can just tunnel someone and be fine with it. If they get their target lynched : best case they killed a blue/demon, worst case a townie, but they are still one step closer to victory. Im not going to focus on Jackal, but the same holds for him : HoD and Jackal have done nothing but tunnelling this game. HoD on me, Jackal on Palmar then Dirzkor. Not only that, but they had NO INTEREST at all about the player that was getting lyched. Here are some example : Day 1 : main Target are risk/palmar/Erandorr On January 07 2012 07:47 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Well, it appears as though xsksc is no longer playing this game, as his last post was: January 04 2012 23:24. I don't like lynching lurkers, but from what I know of Erandorr, his lurking makes him likely to be scum, and I do like lynching scum. Barring him showing an actual commitment to playing, I would be fine with lynching him. On risk.nuke, his playstyle seems to vary a good deal between games, so I am not sold on him being scum yet and would certainly like to hear a bit more from him before deciding whether or not I think he is worth a lynch. Tyrran Tyrran's play seems very different from his play in steamship where he was town. He is being much less aggressive so far, and usually people are more aggressive as town than they are as scum. I think he would make a fine lynch for the day. My only qualm with lynching him is that he hasn't interacted with other players much so far, so his flip will be less revealing, but I like our odds of hitting scum here. My vote will be on him for now. His steamship filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=57176 His filter so far this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=57176 ##Vote: Tyrran Yup, lynch are fine. TUNNEL TYRRAN. Day 2 : Its obvious lycnh are going to be risk or RoL On January 11 2012 14:02 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Anyway, I got the chance to spend some time today doing a bunch of rereading, and after doing so I will not be voting for RoL nor Risk today. Maybe I'm being dense, but I really don't see them as being leading candidates for flipping scum. If I end up having to choose between the two to avoid a no lynch, I favor lynching Risk over RoL, but I'd prefer to lynch neither. [...] Geez that post came out longer than I expected. Ending with a vote on Tyrran, of course. ##Vote: Tyrran Every day i'm tunnelling... Secondly, his post are full of contradiction, which are for me one of the biggest scumtell. On January 07 2012 07:47 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Well, it appears as though xsksc is no longer playing this game, as his last post was: January 04 2012 23:24. I don't like lynching lurkers, but from what I know of Erandorr, his lurking makes him likely to be scum, and I do like lynching scum. Barring him showing an actual commitment to playing, I would be fine with lynching him. On risk.nuke, his playstyle seems to vary a good deal between games, so I am not sold on him being scum yet and would certainly like to hear a bit more from him before deciding whether or not I think he is worth a lynch. Tyrran Tyrran's play seems very different from his play in steamship where he was town. He is being much less aggressive so far, and usually people are more aggressive as town than they are as scum. I think he would make a fine lynch for the day. My only qualm with lynching him is that he hasn't interacted with other players much so far, so his flip will be less revealing, but I like our odds of hitting scum here. My vote will be on him for now. His steamship filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=57176 His filter so far this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=57176 ##Vote: Tyrran On January 09 2012 05:03 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: ...because I was leaning scum on Erandorr and was not on Risk. I didn't comment more on it because I was busy yesterday as I had to get shit ready for my girlfriend's birthday party/then was at it. For those wondering why I had a null read on risk, here is what Syllo said about him earlier this game: Show nested quote + Where is the active and opinionated and aggressive risk.nuke of Election mafia who posted a lot and certainly didn't just repeat what others had said, right or wrong? Here is me asking about him in Steamship: Show nested quote + Notice any similarities? Fun fact, he was town in steamship.@risk.nuke Last game I played with you you were extremely aggressive early on. This game you haven't attacked anyone yet, or even directly addressed someone. Any particular reason why you were active and aggressive last time, and are thus far being passive this game? So he tunnels me based on a 1-game Meta, but still admits that meta lynch are unreliable. Wut ? On January 08 2012 06:41 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Unfortunately I will not be around for the lynch deadline. As stated previously, I am also fine with an Erandorr lynch, so I will be switching my vote to him now as I don't want a no-lynch to occur. Sorry, no birthday sympathy from me. He has shown no commitment to this game, and it is my understanding that this makes him very likely to be scum. Of course he doesnt want a no-lynch to occurs, that's pretty mach the only bad outcome for angels at the end of day 1. Secondly, notice the "it is my understanding". He was the one to call for a Erandorr lynch based on meta. Yet this makes him look like he wasnt. Thirdly : His reaction after Nigth one is strange, and deceptive. I think you all remember on how his being the AoD is a possibility. Well his reaction after On January 09 2012 10:42 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: I was sent to purgatory? What in the fuck? Also, no unrevealed flip? So either syllo = angel of death (seems unlikely to me, but possible) or angel of death targeted him or me (seems much more likely, and probably him if I had to bet). Why does being sent to purgatory bother him? I mean, any regular townie would have been happy to be sent to purgatory as it makes you immune to any nigth actions. So this post alone makes me think that HoD is at least a blue, more likely and angel. On January 10 2012 03:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2012 19:58 syllogism wrote: I'm pretty sure palmar sent HoD to purgatory because he thought he was likely an angel. We of course can't draw any conclusions from that, but as noted before HoD's play has been somewhat suspicious so far. Anyway, either the angel of death attempted to hit me or the angel is HoD (or both!) It's also fairly likely that Palmar was a demon hunter hit because demon Demonic Twister's power protects against slay/stalk but not against demon hunter. Palmar had an important role, so it's somewhat likely that they would use it on him. I'm not sure if the twister can use the ability on himself, but right considering Palmar was by far attracting the most attention, that might change things depending on who the twister is. The only reason why it matters who hit Palmar is because the other possibility is that the demon hunter hit an angel who did not die, in which case we could discuss whether him claiming would be worthwhile. Probably not and his likely target would be risk nuke anyway. Risk.nuke still looks like the best lynch. The case against him still stands and quite a few people were against his lynch without adequately explaining why. They obviously can't all be his team mates, but it's hard to believe there would be that many townies unwilling to lynch him in that situation and be perfectly fine with lynching erandorr. His behaviour hasn't improved at all and that vt claim right before day post doesn't seem like something a townie would do. Syllo, you're pretty smart, so please tell me why on earth you think Palmar would banish me to purgatory if he thought I was an angel? Let's look at the scenarios: 1) I am the Angelic Observer - sending me to purgatory does nothing for the demons. 2) I am the Acolyte - unless I for some reason decide to go after a demon instead of a blue, does nothing for the demons. If I do go after blues, doing this hurts the demons. 3) I am the Angel of Death - I would never hit Palmar when I could get town to use up a lynch on him as lynching is the only anti-angel kp. Also leading a scum lynch can get some town cred. So one demon (Palmar) is safe. Another demon can be twisted, so now 2 are safe. Note, so far this also applies to the acolyte even if the acolyte is targeting a demon. So now blocking the angel of death is only useful if the third demon is also a likely target for a scum night kill. I don't see how any of those are a better choice than targeting someone you think is a blue, especially if you have no idea which I am and are taking the 1/3 chance of a remotely useful roleblock. As I stated, I think it is much more likely he thought I was blue than an angel. Okay, this post is just full of bullshit. I can see plenty of reason for demon to roleblock angels. His post focus on why demons would try to save palmar. The goal of demons is not only to save themself, they also have to prevent angels to win. Banishing them is a good move in this regard as they have a high chance of reducing their KP ( as I stated before, any angel hit, be it town or demon,is actually bad for demon). Secondly you once again makes it sound like angels do not want to target demons. This is plain wrong. They want to get rid of demons. Demons are at least as dangerous for angels than blues. Channeler and courrier have the same ability to RB them, and twister is an anti angel doctor. On the other hand, going for blue gives the risk of killing the demon hunter which is basically working for them early game. You also make it look like angels would not target palmar because he could be lynched day 2. I do not agree. If they have a strong demon read on someone, i think angels would go for it. For once because they cannot be sure that he will be lynched next day ( it could very well have been risk or RoL over palmar again), and secondly because they was no corrupted town yet, finding a blue would be difficult. So because his plays correspond perfectly on how I think angels would play, because he contradict himself, and because he keeps telling shit about angel strategy, I think he is an angel himself. And I think we shoud lynch him tomorrow. Anyway, my lunch break was a bit longer that it should have been, will be back later tonigth. | ||
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On January 13 2012 05:22 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: 3 demons, 1 town, 3 angels, not 2 angels. Unrealistic, yes. But just proving the point that demons don't mind townies being dead. Also shows that even if they don't get angels killed early on, as long as they stay alive any death brings them closer to winning. Nowhere does it say if the hit/lynch is on vanilla town - just on town in general, but if you think their corruption being slightly more likely to fail is their primary concern, I think you are quite mistaken. The longer this game goes on with the demon hunter and sage alive, the more likely they are to lose, regardless of their ability to corrupt. They can't kill those people themselves, so they either need to mislynch them, or hope the angels hit them. Assuming the angels use their acolyte to try to kill people with dark powers, which I assure you they will, the proportion of blues will go down, not up. Yes, the sage can't be killed with that, but he can be killed by the AoD, and I doubt the demons would mind the demon hunter or channeler ending up dead. You stress they need those players alive to count for their win condition, which is true, but you ignore the other half of their win condition. They/their corrupted minions need to outnumber the remaining players in the game. So they want the number of remaining players to be as small as possible. tl;dr: Holy fuck they don't need to corrupt anyone to win this game, and they want to survive while everyone else dies, not make this game last a bajillion days. First of all : "Assuming the angels use their acolyte to try to kill people with dark powers, which I assure you they will " If this isnt a angel claim, then i dont know what it is. Do what you want with your acolyte, but I really do not see why blues are priority target and demons/corrupted town are not. Killing the DH early would be really bad for angels. Killing a corrupted town however is really good for them. Why wouldnt they try to reduce the demons voting power ? Secondly : Wtf if this tl:dr ? Demons should win without using corrupt ? Are you going to argue next that Angels should win wihtout killing anyone ? I look forward to you hosting a normal game where scum has no KP and town has vigs because " well scum can just survive while everyone else dies". Thirdly : On January 13 2012 15:11 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Trolololol. This is your ultimate argument ? That my case against you did not fullfill the Syllogism's standard and therefore is, I quote : "Trolololol". Well, that sure makes you look town. Lastly : So Syllo is not AoD. Would the AoD have targeted Syllo N1 ? If you consider that 1) Syllo was very likely getting banished and 2) Syllo was pushing for lynching 3 non angel target ( palmar(Demon), Erandorr(VT), Risk(VT), ). There was absolutely no reason for AoD to shoot him N1. So either you are AoD, or he shot you. The only reason he would have shot you is by shooting randomly ( as you had no reason to be killed prior to any other player), meaning there was a 1/10th of a chance that you would get hit. So it boils down to this: Either you are AoD, or you got shot which had about 10% chance of happening. Well, math says that there is 90% chance you are AoD. Conclusion : You keep telling non sense, you claim angel, you decide to go troll morde, logic says you are AoD. You should be lynched today. ##Vote HoD | ||
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@Jackal: You mention that HoD is a good lynch. Why do you think so ? | ||
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##Unvote HoD | ||
Tyrran
France777 Posts
On January 15 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not really sure why demons would conceal that. We'll know if he was the channneller or not tonight. If RoL really was an angel, him claiming Channeler would probably mean that tey knew no one would counter claim, i.e MrWiggle was the real town channeler. I wouldnt expect any banishment tonight :/ This really sucks for us because it means we have no way of defending ourself against the AoD. | ||
Tyrran
France777 Posts
On January 16 2012 06:02 Zephirdd wrote: Show nested quote + On January 16 2012 05:16 syllogism wrote: If you are town, you should examine the wagon on you before you claimed and what people were saying. Actually I'm now reading it a bit and this is somewhat changing my view on things OH ARE YOU? Wanna know what happens when the DH shots someone and HoD was jailed? We lost a DT check for nothing because you made excuses for reasons for HoD's claim to be false. Demons will try to create a case over HoD as he is the one town they fear, and Angels will try to protect him because he is useful and any lynch that is not an Angel is excellent for them because that's the only way to kill Angels. And ta-daa, you got the Angel connection you needed from me. But hey that doesn't matters, because tonight you will get your "Not Angel" read, syllo-seer, but that probably doesn't matter as well because if Angels have half a brain they realized you are the Seer last night from your "I DUN WANNA DIE" thing. BAM Acolyte on you, AoD on someone else, DH on Spaackle(hopefully) and suddenly Angels won the game because town will look at this and lynch me and HoD. I swear I wish I was Angel, because this game is so fucking easy for them right now. I don't even wanna begin on the fact that many of your actions also make sense if you were a Demon, even though I can't see you as Demon after the Palmar shit. I still find it hard to understand why can't you believe that Palmar jailed HoD night 1, the Channeler jailed you night 1 and the Angels targetted you night 1. Or even that Palmar and Angels both targetted you and for some godforsaken reason the Channeler jailed HoD. These are already two cases that explain the night actions that I pointed out earlier but people seemed fine to ignore. I said it a few times and I'll say it again: I SUCK at reading people. I analyze facts. Fact is that Spaackle was one of the only connections with the goddamn flipped scum this game. Fact is that you forced things to look like HoD was a goddamn Angel even when he claimed the ONE role he couldn't as an Angel: IF he said a Demon was actually green, the Demons would push him to death because they would know he was an Angel, and we probably wouldn't even realize that. He had a fucking breadcrumb for his target against what others thought yet you still believed that he was an Angel. AGH hopefully I can turn this shit around after the night actions. The corrupted town hopefully will check me and see my innocence, and as I'm pretty sure he is seen as town right now, I'm sure he'll be able to convince people. I have my guess as to who the CTown is, but if I told you right now then that would make AoD's job that much easier, right? Good day. And why do you think angel would have sot syllo day one ? Syllo was pushing for three non angel lynch. He had identified no angel at the time. He was basically working for the angels! Why would they shoot him ? to generate WIFOM ? That doesnt make much sense to me. Concerning HoD, I agree I'm puzzled at his Sage Claim. I agree that he played very strangely (not to say scummy) this game, but i dont want to completely ignore his claim. I'm waiting for the nigth actions to resolve. | ||
Tyrran
France777 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:30 Blazinghand wrote: The other thing this means is that town has 5 votes, angels have 2 votes, and the demons have 3 votes, including mine. This means that the town cannot win a vote today unless we have the help of one of the scum teams. I have some nominal control over my vote until the demons mess with it, meaning that assuming they're afraid of WIFOM or something, they probably won't actually manipulate my vote since they're afraid of giving something away. Their goal is to kill an angel or the DH today and get up to 4 votes out of 8 or 7 tomorrow, controlling the town vote. ;_; i'm unclear on where to go here guys By lynching any scum, we are helping the other team. Rigth now, as it has been stated before, our best chance to win is to lynch an angel and hope that the DT manage to kill a demon. I'm afraid Syllo was seer, and with no angel check, we are in trouble. You said you had a non-dark sense last nigth. Now that you have claimed, I think you should tell us who it is. It cant be the DT, and HoD is likely the sage ( either that or the angeglic observer). There are at least two ( possibly 3) angels left, and 2 VT left. A non dark read is an at least 50% chance of being an angel. While not enough for lynching, I think we should have a close look at your non dark sense. Concerning the layabout case. Even if HoD is the observer and not the sage, layabout being twisted is a very strong Demon tell. But we can deal with him at night ( Demons have no protection against DH). For the lynch, let's focus on a angel. | ||
Tyrran
France777 Posts
On January 17 2012 08:29 Refallen wrote: Meant to point to HoD's post not layabout's. And yes it is impossible because there was only one ??? Flip when the two of them claimed. Roll's claim was stealing wiggles role. Also explains why wiggles died, observer probably saw him banishing syllo, so he became a target. With the only ??? Flip confirmed at that time, now HoD is confirmed to be sage by virtue of there being no counter-claim. The only scenario that HoD could be lying was that syllo is the sage, and angels got really fucking lucky on killing him before day starts, because once there is a counterclaim HoD was gonna be lynched for sure. The observer do not know who performed an action on a given player, neither does he know what action was performed on a given player.It doesnt explain at all why MrWiggle was the target. Next, if we admit ( and while likely, it's stil not 100%) certain that HoD is sage? Why wouldnt you be scum ? You pushed twice for lynching the layabout, because HoD claimed he was twisted. Next you want to lycnh Dirzkor: At first you claim he is scum for defending palmar, secondly you claim he is scumbuddy with RoL ( who you are certain he is scum, without any proof). In both case you are trying to focus on demons while it is obvious at this point that town should kill angels. Also that would make RoL/palmar/Dirzkor demons, and not Layabout. Do you think this is likely? I think you migth very well be an angel. You bussed RoL, and you want to makes us beleive he was scum because this would make you look good. @HoD : Who do you think is the most likely to be the AoD? I'm still not sold on you being sage, but I'd like to hear your advice. @BH : You should really reveal your non dark sense. I stated above that he would be a good target for investigation. | ||
Tyrran
France777 Posts
On January 18 2012 07:07 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: I've already posted the majority of my thoughts on Tyrran. Seriously just skim through this filter of his: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=57176 And his filter from this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=57176 Do these seriously look similar to anyone here? How are you still making meta game cases so far into the game ? But that is not the matter now. I'm thinking of voting for refallen. I've explained before that his case against dirzkor no longer hold, and still he wanted him lynched. PLus he was pushing for demon lynch, which is the most angel tell IMHO. I also dont think the demon hunter would act this way. The DH should have known that we need to lynch angels and not demons as of now. His filter has nothing to dissuade me from voting for him. Your argument for not voting him is only based on the list of people pushing for him. That's not enough for me. Right now, I think he is a better lynch over dirzkor. ##vote Refallen | ||
Tyrran
France777 Posts
On January 18 2012 07:16 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2012 07:14 Tyrran wrote: On January 18 2012 07:07 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: I've already posted the majority of my thoughts on Tyrran. Seriously just skim through this filter of his: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=57176 And his filter from this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=57176 Do these seriously look similar to anyone here? How are you still making meta game cases so far into the game ? But that is not the matter now. I'm thinking of voting for refallen. I've explained before that his case against dirzkor no longer hold, and still he wanted him lynched. PLus he was pushing for demon lynch, which is the most angel tell IMHO. I also dont think the demon hunter would act this way. The DH should have known that we need to lynch angels and not demons as of now. His filter has nothing to dissuade me from voting for him. Your argument for not voting him is only based on the list of people pushing for him. That's not enough for me. Right now, I think he is a better lynch over dirzkor. ##vote Refallen Holy fuck, unvoting to avoid corrupted town insta-hammer. Goddammit, be careful man. Demons insta hammering Refallen would mean they have a Angel read on him. It doesnt make sense for them to hammer someone hey think is VT. The only reason i should be afraid to vote for him is if i think he was DH, and I dont think it is possible. Why are you protecting him so much ? Why do you think he's not an angel ? | ||
Tyrran
France777 Posts
Here is our QT http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/wYqKvV4BBQX. Me and Palmar played really bad Day 1 which made us easy target early ( even tho i survived for a bit longer than I thought mainly due to the fact that refallent thougth I was Angel). Losing Palmar Day one was a huge hit, because we had no effective way to deal with the Demon hunter afterwards. If we had managed to hammer Refallen, the game migth have ended differently. | ||
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