Mr. Wiggles Mini Mafia I

On jay, let's just say its a gut read, and I'm feeling very good about it. I do only have 4 posts to work with right now. We can look at them though.

Post 1
"Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency."
This is pretty much the discussion between the Lynch all Lurkers policy lynch. However, framing it so that one side = scum is really not logical. Otherwise, jay is saying that GygaS and Cyber_Cheese are scum as well.

"I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest."
The "to be honest" part is something minor, but I don't like it. It's like saying, "I'm scum but even to me its really weird."

"Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that."
This isn't going anywhere, and there's no point to it. It's just saying, placeholder vote could be scum or town.

"Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something"
A fake attempt to generate more discussion when in reality, doesn't do anything.

Post 2
"Plz address these concerns."
Same as before.

"If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum."
Basically, bluefishing.

Post 3
Compare this line: "Hm I find it interesting that you choice to vote for me." with one of his Student Mafia post ("But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia.") Surprisingly similar.

Also similar: same post from above- "And if you want to make a case on me go for it." and another post from Student Mafia ("I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.")

"So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later.
You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches."
Attacking me as defense, basically saying "Misder isn't qualified to attack me because he only talked about policy lynches". We can compare this to him and Adam and xtfffc in Student Mafia, although in that case, he did attack Adam first. Yet another post in Student Mafia ("If you wanna call me me scummy come out and say it im done with people soft claiming someones scum with out a real reason behind it. I honestly think that bullshit like that is not going to help the town.")

Although there is one good thing for him- he's not trying to act noobish like he did in the beginning of Student Mafia.

On December 24 2011 21:18 Dirkzor wrote:


jaybrundage:


At this point several people was after seph. He was acting weird and voting for himself. An easy target to jump on and thats exactly what jay did. Nothing new added to the case. This is the point where my alarm bells started ringing. Why is everyone going for this kid? I find this very suspicious...


To conclude this wall of text I find Jay scummy. He jumped the wagon early with no really evidence or thought behind it other then what others had already pointed out. When misder goes after him he quickly counter attacks pointing out how misder havn't done anything but discuss policy lynches.

Misder later case on him is really solid and i agree with most of it.

Edit before posting: I seem to have missed that Grackaroni have also voted for him. Wont go into his posts now. Also while writing hyshes have voted for him aswell. So now the number is at 9 votes on seph.

This wagon is going to easy at the moment. Either scum have already given up on seph and is then pushing him hard or we found a very bad townie. I'm leaning bad townie.

##Unvote
##Vote jaybrundage

On December 25 2011 01:02 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Alright, so I took a look at Jaybrundage's filter-





1) I'm sorry, I haven't been around much
2) Lurking for any reason is not acceptable
That seems like a mighty fine double-standard right there.

Jay-
Would you call me a lurker? I think the reason that Sep said we should not lynch lurkers is because he likes to lurk sometimes correct. That in it self seems bad for the town. If you like to lurk dont play as others have suggested.

3, 4) About half of your reasoning is devoted to talking about how voting for yourself makes no sense as either side, but somehow this works out to be a scum tell?

Jay-
I think its a distraction. Sep had no reason to vote for himself unless he has a short term memory loss. Thats it. And in that case he should not be playing mafia in the first place.
I think that making a self vote in that time served only to confuse people. And confusing people is mafia agenda.

5) Mistakes happen. It would suck as a townie too. How does a townies reaction differ from a scum reaction? Can you explain how this is a scum tell?

Jay-
But a townie would know there in the right. And would be able to prove it with coherent logically argument. Considering my situation i would hope i can be open and show everyone that my goals are all town orientated.

6) After adding nothing to the discussion, you brought up null reads and pre-mentioned points as your logic behind putting down a vote.

Jay-
This is up to your discretion. I think that sep is a good lynch because of his play. It speaks for it self.

The double standard and lack of good logic in placing his vote make him look eager to have his vote down on any bandwagon.
##Vote Jaydrundage

On December 25 2011 02:22 sephirotharg wrote:
Well, you guys wanted my strongest case, so here it is:

Surprise! It's Jaybrundage.

Let's go through this step by step.



1: Interesting how his first substantive post opens with a justification for his seeming lurking. He continues on to say they are "good guidelines" but backs off from this stance by saying they shouldn't be the reason we lynch somebody. I've been accused of preemptively defending my lurking; well, I'm leveling the same charge at Jay.

Jay-
I dont back off at all. I said there are guidelines and thats that. It means something to follow loosely. We should not lynch someone solely on the basis of a policy lynch there should be scum tells as well.

2: Soft-claiming that lurking is ok is anti-town, right? Then why did you just try to excuse your own lurking? That's anti-town behavior as well.

Jay-
There is a big difference to saying don't lynch lurkers guys I'm a lurker as you said. And me apologizing for not being here since the start of the game. I NEVER said it was ok to lurk that's why i said i was sorry.

3: You say that there's no reason for a mafia to vote for their self. Then, realizing that you just implied that I was a townie, you back up and try to posit that there's no reason for a townie to vote for their self. Then you just give up and say you are confused. How does any of this help the town? You argue that my self-vote was a distraction but it's you who attempts to distract the town with this nonsense paragraph.

Jay- I have stated multiply times i think it was a distraction. There was no reason for you to vote for your self. It only serves to confuse people and make people second guess there own vote. Giygas stated himself that he had no idea what to think of it.

4: "I seem to want to be voting for the way I'm acting?" What does that even mean? And then you appeal to me to do something, anything at all. Why? You'd prefer for others to be active, if you are mafia. If I'm doing all the talking, you don't have to contribute.

Jay-
It means you have been acting scummy. I want you to be active because a active town is a healthy town that can find mafia.
I would prefer everyone to be active so we can catch scum when they slip.

This post is basically a nothing post. Jay tries to excuse his own lurking (and then lurks rather a lot after this, having only 2 additional posts of any length. For a game that's almost 2 days old at this point that is a paltry contribution) and then confuses the issue by saying that my actions make no sense. He reiterates reasons others have laid out for my post seeming scummy but fails to expand on those reasons.



I received a warning. Thanks for stating the obvious. Then you say I had "a lot of votes" on myself. At this point, the votes numbered 4, one of which was my own placeholder. 3 votes is "a lot?" No, you just want me to perceive it that way so I panic and mess up. This is further compounded by the fact that you say we have only 2 hours left - an outright lie. Could you have made a mistake? Certainly. But does it benefit you to put more pressure on me? Yes. And then you conclude by asking me for my scum reads - when you yourself haven't contributed at all beyond restating what other people have said.

Jay-
I wanted to get your post asap because i thought we only had two hours. I turned out to be mistaken. Why would i lie about the deadline. That would just be plain dumb. I gave my scum read and its you. You defense was lackluster. It at some points didn't even make sense. Quoting Emerson seems like a stretch.



And here you just restate what has already been said. Both of your main points against me have already been noted by this time, by Shraft and Adam a few posts above yours. And then you attack Misder, even though his vote is obviously a pressure vote. You even acknowledge as much by saying "You then vote for me with practically nothing".

Jay-
You can see my defense of Misder above. I did want him to put a case we need cases and conversation.

You lurk, then make excuses for it. You distract the town from the actual issues, and merely restate points that have already been said. And you react aggressively when the flimsiest of votes is pushed against you. And you push for an early, not fully reasoned-out lynch. None of this behavior makes sense from a town perspective, but it is classic mafia play.

Jay-
I have not lurked. And i have not made excuses for it.
I have defensed my self thoroughly because i am not mafia. I have pushed your lynch because you are the scummiest person atm.


I have my doubts about others, most notably Shraft, but since Jay's response amounts to "it wasn't a sheep vote" he is my prime suspect at this point in time.

Jay-
This is VERYYY interesting. You previously said that you found Drikzor and Shraft suspicious which is down below HOWEVER you push onto me after seeing that other people are doing so. Ever since Drikzor came off your lynch wagon you dont even mention him. And you switch from Shraft who you though was suspicious to me.

On December 24 2011 03:56 sephirotharg wrote:
RE: Giygas

This is a game of circles within circles son, and you'd best step to that right quick.

Weird accent aside, I'm merely stating that I find you, Dirkzor, and Shraft rather suspicious for voting so early and pushing hard. I think it's rather obvious why I wrote "the thing about lurking" - to generate some discussion, allowing scum to reveal themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the three of you flips red - but we'll see.

Hypocrisy. The only times you have been active are 1) when you were pursuing my lynch and 2) when you yourself are the focus of scrutiny. Other than that, you have been lurking. You say you want an active town, and defy that with your actions. Are you really town then?

Poor grammar aside, this is an outright lie.

On December 26 2011 11:24 Grackaroni wrote:

How confident in this lynch are you?
You already explained that you think lynches based purely off of policy are bad so is there something about his play that feels scummy to you or is it because of his lack of contributions.